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Israel under attack from Hamas

I was looking up support for Hamas and found the article below. Qatar provides a lot of cash, it appears to be more than Iran. But I found a paragraph that says Israel was behind Hamas coming to power, Israel wanted Hamas to displace the Palestinian Authority. Here is the paragraph on Qatar's financial involvement.

These cash transfers took place with the approval of the Israelis and the international community, reported The Times of Israel on October 8. According to the news site, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu “took an approach that divided power between the Gaza Strip and the West Bank – bringing Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas to his knees while making moves that propped up the Hamas terror group”. Furthermore, “most of the time, Israeli policy was to treat the Palestinian Authority as a burden and Hamas as an asset”.​


IF that article is accurate, one has to wonder if Israeli involvement in what happens in Gaza can be a positive for Israel. Entirely backing the wrong horse is concerning.

They made the same "mistake" we did when we backed the Mujahideen in Afghanistan and got Bin Laden for our troubles.

The problem with the Palestinians is that the majority of them are terrorist supporters. You have to break them of that. That begins with killing Hamas and IJ, taking their schools, and replacing their Imams. You have to couple that with an Israeli Marshall Plan.
 
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They made the same "mistake" we did when we backed the Mujahideen in Afghanistan and got Bin Laden for our troubles.

The problem with the Palestinians is that the majority of them are terrorist supporters. You have to break them of that. That begins with killing Hamas and IJ, taking their schools, and replacing their Imams. You have to couple that with an Israeli Marshall Plan.
It is funny, I posted the results of the poll from the last election a couple times. The majority said they wanted peace with Israel, the majority said they wanted Hamas to change its core belief on Israel. That was 15 years ago, but I don't know of more recent polling. Why are you certain a majority are supporters of terrorism?*

* of course today they might be, asymmetrical war experts do often worry that too broadly killing creates more guerrillas than it kills. That has been preached for a very long time. Hackworth was arguing that in Vietnam arguing jets and artillery helped the guerilla. But pre the recent invasion, I certainly don't know a majority believed in terrorism. I bet like humans everywhere else, a majority want to be left alone with an opportunity to better their own lives. I do suppose a majority doesn't believe Israel is in any way assisting betterment. But that isn't the same as wanting Israeli citizens murdered in their sleep.
 
It is funny, I posted the results of the poll from the last election a couple times. The majority said they wanted peace with Israel, the majority said they wanted Hamas to change its core belief on Israel. That was 15 years ago, but I don't know of more recent polling. Why are you certain a majority are supporters of terrorism?*

* of course today they might be, asymmetrical war experts do often worry that too broadly killing creates more guerrillas than it kills. That has been preached for a very long time. Hackworth was arguing that in Vietnam arguing jets and artillery helped the guerilla. But pre the recent invasion, I certainly don't know a majority believed in terrorism. I bet like humans everywhere else, a majority want to be left alone with an opportunity to better their own lives. I do suppose a majority doesn't believe Israel is in any way assisting betterment. But that isn't the same as wanting Israeli citizens murdered in their sleep.

Looking at the polling taken from 10/31 to 11/7 I have linked. If more want peace, even better, the de-Islamization process should go more smoothly.

IMO, the Palestinians will not be anywhere close to where I would trust their self determination for at least a generation. They need completely disarmed and forced into an Islamic Enlightenment.
 
It is funny, I posted the results of the poll from the last election a couple times. The majority said they wanted peace with Israel, the majority said they wanted Hamas to change its core belief on Israel. That was 15 years ago, but I don't know of more recent polling. Why are you certain a majority are supporters of terrorism?*

* of course today they might be, asymmetrical war experts do often worry that too broadly killing creates more guerrillas than it kills. That has been preached for a very long time. Hackworth was arguing that in Vietnam arguing jets and artillery helped the guerilla. But pre the recent invasion, I certainly don't know a majority believed in terrorism. I bet like humans everywhere else, a majority want to be left alone with an opportunity to better their own lives. I do suppose a majority doesn't believe Israel is in any way assisting betterment. But that isn't the same as wanting Israeli citizens murdered in their sleep.
If we’ve learned anything the past 30 years, it’s that Muslims from the ME are NOT like humans everywhere else.
 
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It is either that or kill them all. Which do you prefer? They won't accept a UN force there that isn't Islamic and Israel won't accept any Islamic countries as a "UN" force there either. The UNRWA already helps run the schools in Gaza and that is half the problem. Everyone in Gaza is saying they know Hamas was at the hospital. The only people the Israelis might trust as part of the UN force would be at war with the Palestinians in a month. The only people the Palewtinians would trust would be a complete non-starter for the Israelis and would likely look the other way on the terrorists anyway. Finally, the majority of Palestinians and all of their leadership are against any political solution that doesn't mean the dissolution of Israel.

Relocating them is ethnic cleansing, can't do that. So kill them or occupy and deprogram are the only choices left. Take your pick.


Well again, Israel occupied and administered Gaza for 38 years (1967 - 2005). They ended up with two long term uprisings until they threw in the towel and left. There is no reason to think a new occupation would turn out better, likely worse. Israel says they have no interest in a new occupation, but they also have no answers on any other solution.

 

Unlimited Friends Association is aligned with senior Hamas officials and advocates killing Jews. ANERA works closely with Unlimited Friends Association. It’s past time to connect the dots.
 
Well again, Israel occupied and administered Gaza for 38 years (1967 - 2005). They ended up with two long term uprisings until they threw in the towel and left. There is no reason to think a new occupation would turn out better, likely worse. Israel says they have no interest in a new occupation, but they also have no answers on any other solution.

It would be interesting to know what Israel would do differently. My guess is they will have the same level of success as before.
 
Well again, Israel occupied and administered Gaza for 38 years (1967 - 2005). They ended up with two long term uprisings until they threw in the towel and left. There is no reason to think a new occupation would turn out better, likely worse. Israel says they have no interest in a new occupation, but they also have no answers on any other solution.

I actually agree with this. I think an EU/ U.S. peacekeeping force would not be attacked or hated to nearly the degree that an Israeli one would.

Everything else in the region has failed. I would say give it a try. I don't believe it would be open season on U.S. troops. Far from it.
 
I actually agree with this. I think an EU/ U.S. peacekeeping force would not be attacked or hated to nearly the degree that an Israeli one would.

Everything else in the region has failed. I would say give it a try. I don't believe it would be open season on U.S. troops. Far from it.

The polling I posted, they dislike us as much or more than Israel. We would be viewed as crusader occupiers.

We should not commit to that. It would be Lebanon and the Beirut Barracks all over again.
 
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I actually agree with this. I think an EU/ U.S. peacekeeping force would not be attacked or hated to nearly the degree that an Israeli one would.

Everything else in the region has failed. I would say give it a try. I don't believe it would be open season on U.S. troops. Far from it.

Put me down for a hard no on US troops ever setting foot in gaza. Never going to happen anyway.
 
It is funny, I posted the results of the poll from the last election a couple times. The majority said they wanted peace with Israel, the majority said they wanted Hamas to change its core belief on Israel. That was 15 years ago, but I don't know of more recent polling. Why are you certain a majority are supporters of terrorism?*

* of course today they might be, asymmetrical war experts do often worry that too broadly killing creates more guerrillas than it kills. That has been preached for a very long time. Hackworth was arguing that in Vietnam arguing jets and artillery helped the guerilla. But pre the recent invasion, I certainly don't know a majority believed in terrorism. I bet like humans everywhere else, a majority want to be left alone with an opportunity to better their own lives. I do suppose a majority doesn't believe Israel is in any way assisting betterment. But that isn't the same as wanting Israeli citizens murdered in their sleep.

Can you post a news source showing Palestinians calling out Hamas for their tactics on 10/7? A demonstration by them on their streets protesting Hamas's butchery?

Compare that with how people responded to 9/11 et al. in Palestine. From that, it's reasonable to assume a large %, maybe a majority, are supporters of Hamas's actions.

Palestinian celebrations[edit]​

A group of Palestinians were filmed celebrating in the street after hearing the local news reports of attacks on the World Trade Center and the deaths of thousands of Americans. Fox News reported that in Ein el-Hilweh, Lebanon's largest Palestinian refugee camp, revelers fired weapons in the air, with similar celebratory gunfire also heard at the Rashidiyeh camp near the southern city of Tyre.[99] Yasser Arafat and nearly all the leaders of the Palestinian National Authority (PNA) condemned the attacks. They attempted to censor and discredit broadcasts and other Palestinian news reports justifying the attacks in America,[99] with many newspapers, magazines, websites and wire services running photographs of Palestinian public celebrations.[100][101] The PNA claimed such celebrations were not representative of the sentiments of the Palestinians, and the Information Minister Yasser Abed Rabbo said the PNA would not allow "a few kids" to "smear the real face of the Palestinians". In an attempt to quell further reporting, Ahmed Abdel Rahman, Arafat's Cabinet secretary, said the Palestinian Authority could not "guarantee the life" of an Associated Press (AP) cameraman if footage he filmed of post-9/11 celebrations in Nablus was broadcast. Rahman's statement prompted a formal protest from the AP bureau chief, Dan Perry.[102][103][101]

Arafat said of the attacks: "It's unbelievable. We completely condemn this very dangerous attack, and I convey my condolences to the American people, to the American president and to the American administration, not only in my name but on behalf of the Palestinians." He gave blood for victims of the attack in a Gaza hospital.[42]

James Bennet reported in The New York Times that while "most" towns in the West Bank were quiet, some drivers in East Jerusalem were honking horns in celebration; he also wrote that he saw one man passing out celebratory candy.[104] Big crowds of Palestinians celebrated in Nablus, chanting Beloved bin Laden, strike Tel Aviv! while Palestinian Authority personnel prevented photographers from taking pictures.[104] Annette Krüger Spitta of the German public broadcaster ARD's TV magazine Panorama states that unaired footage shows the street surrounding the celebration in Jerusalem was quiet. Furthermore, she states that a man in a white T-shirt incited the children and gathered people together for the shot. The Panorama report, dated September 20, 2001, quotes Communications Professor Martin Löffelholz explaining that in the images one sees jubilant Palestinian children and several adults, but there is no indication that their pleasure is related to the attack. The woman seen cheering stated afterwards that she was offered cake if she celebrated on camera, and was frightened when she saw the pictures on television afterward.[105][106]

There was also a rumour that the footage of some Palestinians celebrating the attacks was stock footage of Palestinian reactions to the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait in 1990.[107] This rumour was proven false shortly afterwards,[108] and CNN issued a statement to that effect.[109] However, a poll of Palestinians conducted by the Fafo Foundation in 2005 found that 65% of respondents supported "Al Qaeda bombings in the USA and Europe".[110]

 
Can you post a news source showing Palestinians calling out Hamas for their tactics on 10/7? A demonstration by them on their streets protesting Hamas's butchery?

Compare that with how people responded to 9/11 et al. in Palestine. From that, it's reasonable to assume a large %, maybe a majority, are supporters of Hamas's actions.

Palestinian celebrations[edit]​

A group of Palestinians were filmed celebrating in the street after hearing the local news reports of attacks on the World Trade Center and the deaths of thousands of Americans. Fox News reported that in Ein el-Hilweh, Lebanon's largest Palestinian refugee camp, revelers fired weapons in the air, with similar celebratory gunfire also heard at the Rashidiyeh camp near the southern city of Tyre.[99] Yasser Arafat and nearly all the leaders of the Palestinian National Authority (PNA) condemned the attacks. They attempted to censor and discredit broadcasts and other Palestinian news reports justifying the attacks in America,[99] with many newspapers, magazines, websites and wire services running photographs of Palestinian public celebrations.[100][101] The PNA claimed such celebrations were not representative of the sentiments of the Palestinians, and the Information Minister Yasser Abed Rabbo said the PNA would not allow "a few kids" to "smear the real face of the Palestinians". In an attempt to quell further reporting, Ahmed Abdel Rahman, Arafat's Cabinet secretary, said the Palestinian Authority could not "guarantee the life" of an Associated Press (AP) cameraman if footage he filmed of post-9/11 celebrations in Nablus was broadcast. Rahman's statement prompted a formal protest from the AP bureau chief, Dan Perry.[102][103][101]

Arafat said of the attacks: "It's unbelievable. We completely condemn this very dangerous attack, and I convey my condolences to the American people, to the American president and to the American administration, not only in my name but on behalf of the Palestinians." He gave blood for victims of the attack in a Gaza hospital.[42]

James Bennet reported in The New York Times that while "most" towns in the West Bank were quiet, some drivers in East Jerusalem were honking horns in celebration; he also wrote that he saw one man passing out celebratory candy.[104] Big crowds of Palestinians celebrated in Nablus, chanting Beloved bin Laden, strike Tel Aviv! while Palestinian Authority personnel prevented photographers from taking pictures.[104] Annette Krüger Spitta of the German public broadcaster ARD's TV magazine Panorama states that unaired footage shows the street surrounding the celebration in Jerusalem was quiet. Furthermore, she states that a man in a white T-shirt incited the children and gathered people together for the shot. The Panorama report, dated September 20, 2001, quotes Communications Professor Martin Löffelholz explaining that in the images one sees jubilant Palestinian children and several adults, but there is no indication that their pleasure is related to the attack. The woman seen cheering stated afterwards that she was offered cake if she celebrated on camera, and was frightened when she saw the pictures on television afterward.[105][106]

There was also a rumour that the footage of some Palestinians celebrating the attacks was stock footage of Palestinian reactions to the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait in 1990.[107] This rumour was proven false shortly afterwards,[108] and CNN issued a statement to that effect.[109] However, a poll of Palestinians conducted by the Fafo Foundation in 2005 found that 65% of respondents supported "Al Qaeda bombings in the USA and Europe".[110]


Do you think there might be other reasons people don't turn out to protest where Hamas governs? The previous government didn't survive Hamas, can we assume that plays a role?

I don't doubt a lot of Palestinians in Gaza are not favorable to Israel. The question that is tough to answer is how many want Israelis dead and how many just don't care that Israelis died. That is a different question. I sure hear a lot of people here say they don't care if every Palestinian dies and drawing a distinction between that and wanting them dead.
 
Do you think there might be other reasons people don't turn out to protest where Hamas governs? The previous government didn't survive Hamas, can we assume that plays a role?

I don't doubt a lot of Palestinians in Gaza are not favorable to Israel. The question that is tough to answer is how many want Israelis dead and how many just don't care that Israelis died. That is a different question. I sure hear a lot of people here say they don't care if every Palestinian dies and drawing a distinction between that and wanting them dead.
To be clear, I’m not happy about these facts and I don’t want people holding these views all dead.

But it appears to just be a fact that a large percentage of Palestinians support terror tactics—65% supported Al Queda and that was before Hamas control. That same conclusion now seems consistent with what we’ve seen about Oct 7.

Remember, Hamas terrorists were calling their parents after slaughtering civilians because they knew their parents would be so proud of them. Think about that for a second. This is the culture, Marv, and it’s fvcked up.
 
To be clear, I’m not happy about these facts and I don’t want people holding these views all dead.

But it appears to just be a fact that a large percentage of Palestinians support terror tactics—65% supported Al Queda and that was before Hamas control. That same conclusion now seems consistent with what we’ve seen about Oct 7.

Remember, Hamas terrorists were calling their parents after slaughtering civilians because they knew their parents would be so proud of them. Think about that for a second. This is the culture, Marv, and it’s fvcked up.

To start, don't mistake what I am about to say as a defense of the indefensible.

Gaza has had that "open air prison" tag since it was cut off from the world 15 years ago. Before that was occupation, that is a long period of time for grievances to grow. There has been quite a long time for everyone to have a "we owe you because of" mentality.

Hamas was clearly wrong in their attack. Israel may not have crossed the line in response, but if not, the line is rapidly approaching.

If my family were killed in a retaliatory strike, I do not know that I would just accept it as unfortunate as much as I would dedicate the rest of my life to revenge. And that is where we have been since the Romans.

I think life for Gazans has been rough. I do not think it in human nature for them to sit there thinking, "this is all our fault". Nor do I think most outside Gaza think everything since 1947 is 100% on Palestinians.
 
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If my family were killed in a retaliatory strike, I do not know that I would just accept it as unfortunate
With all due respect, Actually your posting history proves that even if your own family were killed, you would say something about it's unfortunate but there may be reasons that we should consider while we look at all of the different facts while not rushing to judgment, but I am really mad about my family being put through this, and I will only take it very few times more.
That is what your history tells us. With respect of course.
 
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With all due respect, Actually your posting history proves that even if your own family were killed, you would say something about it's unfortunate but there may be reasons that we should consider while we look at all of the different facts while not rushing to judgment, but I am really mad about my family being put through this, and I will only take it very few times more.
That is what your history tells us. With respect of course.

With all due respect, if your daughter was held at gunpoint by some psycho ex boyfriend but was surrounded by police and a military that was exponentially more advanced....you would say to blow her away because her death justifies getting the psycho. She's just in the way and since she was attracted to him back in 2006, she gets what she deserves.
 
Looking at the polling taken from 10/31 to 11/7 I have linked. If more want peace, even better, the de-Islamization process should go more smoothly.

IMO, the Palestinians will not be anywhere close to where I would trust their self determination for at least a generation. They need completely disarmed and forced into an Islamic Enlightenment.

A poll taken from 10/31 to 11/7? If what, of Palestinians in general or Palestinians trapped in Gaza?

Trying not to be ignorant here but...who the F is answering a poll right now? Gaza has basically been without power, water, supply chain lines and Internet for over a month.

However the Israeli government has been busted pushing blatant propaganda to the west to try to gain sympathy (my favorite was the general who put out a video warning Palestinians to evacuate south.... except he did it in broken English which is interesting since that's not the language and did it online even though there was no power much less internet service in the area. Case in point it was pure theatre meant for the west, not for the Palestinians).

That's just one a many blatantly fake, propaganda messages the Israeli government has put out.

Add to it that Netenyahu had to coddle up to the most extreme genocidal members of his party and put them in power (many who are on the record of wanting to simply eliminate the Palestinians all together, from back in the mid 2010's) along with the fact that the Israeli government refuses to allow for independent journalists to report (actually an incredible amount of journalists have been executed, I believe this has been the most deadly skirmish when it comes to piling up dead journalist carcasses) well, I don't trust a thing coming out of both parties.

My POV is we have two extremist groups who have seized power and two populations that are going to be the casualties for the void of humanity.
 
A poll taken from 10/31 to 11/7? If what, of Palestinians in general or Palestinians trapped in Gaza?

Trying not to be ignorant here but...who the F is answering a poll right now? Gaza has basically been without power, water, supply chain lines and Internet for over a month.

However the Israeli government has been busted pushing blatant propaganda to the west to try to gain sympathy (my favorite was the general who put out a video warning Palestinians to evacuate south.... except he did it in broken English which is interesting since that's not the language and did it online even though there was no power much less internet service in the area. Case in point it was pure theatre meant for the west, not for the Palestinians).

That's just one a many blatantly fake, propaganda messages the Israeli government has put out.

Add to it that Netenyahu had to coddle up to the most extreme genocidal members of his party and put them in power (many who are on the record of wanting to simply eliminate the Palestinians all together, from back in the mid 2010's) along with the fact that the Israeli government refuses to allow for independent journalists to report (actually an incredible amount of journalists have been executed, I believe this has been the most deadly skirmish when it comes to piling up dead journalist carcasses) well, I don't trust a thing coming out of both parties.

My POV is we have two extremist groups who have seized power and two populations that are going to be the casualties for the void of humanity.

So here is the issue I have, go look at the polling. It is linked twice here just one page back and I think also in the thread about what to do with Islam. The picture for one of the questions is linked back there too.

In answer to whom was polled, it was about 700 people in both the West Bank and Gaza. They give a demographic breakdown at the beginning of the 37 page document.

Your POV is driven by what you think the Palestinians should be as opposed to what they are.
 
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It is funny, I posted the results of the poll from the last election a couple times. The majority said they wanted peace with Israel, the majority said they wanted Hamas to change its core belief on Israel. That was 15 years ago, but I don't know of more recent polling. Why are you certain a majority are supporters of terrorism?*

* of course today they might be, asymmetrical war experts do often worry that too broadly killing creates more guerrillas than it kills. That has been preached for a very long time. Hackworth was arguing that in Vietnam arguing jets and artillery helped the guerilla. But pre the recent invasion, I certainly don't know a majority believed in terrorism. I bet like humans everywhere else, a majority want to be left alone with an opportunity to better their own lives. I do suppose a majority doesn't believe Israel is in any way assisting betterment. But that isn't the same as wanting Israeli citizens murdered in their sleep.
Being murdered in their sleep? Well, that would have been a more humane death, wouldn't it?

Eyes gouged out and limbs cut off before they're shot dead..... baby burned to death in an oven while its mother watched.... countless more horrible deaths.

Murdered in their sleep is a way to make it sound like it was killing without inhumane suffering and letting Hamas off the hook for their massive atrocities.
 
A poll taken from 10/31 to 11/7? If what, of Palestinians in general or Palestinians trapped in Gaza?

Trying not to be ignorant here but...who the F is answering a poll right now? Gaza has basically been without power, water, supply chain lines and Internet for over a month.

However the Israeli government has been busted pushing blatant propaganda to the west to try to gain sympathy (my favorite was the general who put out a video warning Palestinians to evacuate south.... except he did it in broken English which is interesting since that's not the language and did it online even though there was no power much less internet service in the area. Case in point it was pure theatre meant for the west, not for the Palestinians).

That's just one a many blatantly fake, propaganda messages the Israeli government has put out.

Add to it that Netenyahu had to coddle up to the most extreme genocidal members of his party and put them in power (many who are on the record of wanting to simply eliminate the Palestinians all together, from back in the mid 2010's) along with the fact that the Israeli government refuses to allow for independent journalists to report (actually an incredible amount of journalists have been executed, I believe this has been the most deadly skirmish when it comes to piling up dead journalist carcasses) well, I don't trust a thing coming out of both parties.

My POV is we have two extremist groups who have seized power and two populations that are going to be the casualties for the void of humanity.
Ah yes, the old moral equivalency arguement.
 
So here is the issue I have, go look at the polling. It is linked twice here just one page back and I think also in the thread about what to do with Islam. The picture for one of the questions is linked back there too.

In answer to whom was polled, it was about 700 people in both the West Bank and Gaza. They give a demographic breakdown at the beginning of the 37 page document.

Your POV is driven by what you think the Palestinians should be as opposed to what they are.
I think Clinton agrees with you.

 
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“The Tehran-backed Houthis released a statement claiming responsibility, with Houthi spokesperson Yahya Saree Saying in a statement that the rebels ‘carried out a military operation in the Red Sea, the results of which were the seizure of an Israeli ship and taking it to the Yemeni coast’

He said the Houthis were ‘dealing with the ship’s crew in accordance with the teachings and values of our Islamic religion,’ reiterating repeated threats to target any Israel-linked vessels in the Red Sea due to Israel’s ‘brutal aggression’ against Hamas terrorists in Gaza.”
 
To start, don't mistake what I am about to say as a defense of the indefensible.

Gaza has had that "open air prison" tag since it was cut off from the world 15 years ago. Before that was occupation, that is a long period of time for grievances to grow. There has been quite a long time for everyone to have a "we owe you because of" mentality.

Hamas was clearly wrong in their attack. Israel may not have crossed the line in response, but if not, the line is rapidly approaching.

If my family were killed in a retaliatory strike, I do not know that I would just accept it as unfortunate as much as I would dedicate the rest of my life to revenge. And that is where we have been since the Romans.

I think life for Gazans has been rough. I do not think it in human nature for them to sit there thinking, "this is all our fault". Nor do I think most outside Gaza think everything since 1947 is 100% on Palestinians.
I get what you're saying, and I think it is worth explaining how the Palestinians got to this place so that nations can try to ensure it doesn't happen again in the future.

But I don't think we can compare what we would do to what Palestinians do here. They are driven by religious delusions, revenge, and hatred to a point they are proud of their children if they become "martyrs" by blowing themselves up and taking Jews with them or by raiding, raping and butchering innocent kids at a music festival.

Unlike some, I don't want to call it inhuman. In fact, I think it's fair to say that for most of human history, humans tended to act this way--butchering their enemies, raping the women, killing babies. So I'm realistic about the history of human behavior. But in so doing, I think it highlights the success of Western civilization and the advancement of better ways of doing things that the Palestinians and a lot of the Muslim world should copy.

It also highlights just how lucky we are all to live and to have been born where we were, and that the young people who want to see the downfall of the US, Great Britain, etc. are absolute fools.
 
However the Israeli government has been busted pushing blatant propaganda to the west to try to gain sympathy (my favorite was the general who put out a video warning Palestinians to evacuate south.... except he did it in broken English which is interesting since that's not the language and did it online even though there was no power much less internet service in the area. Case in point it was pure theatre meant for the west, not for the Palestinians).

That's just one a many blatantly fake, propaganda messages the Israeli government has put out.
Could you post all of this blatantly fake propaganda by the Israelis? I haven't seen it.

On the bit about the Israeli general, are you saying that the Israelis didn't warn the Gazans to move south? There have been quite a few news reports from credible reporters documenting that fact. Pamphlets being dropped, robo calls made to cell phones leaving audio messages. And there is proof they did so: a lot of Palestinians left and headed south before the ground invasion. Are you claiming these are false propaganda, or just that one of the general?
 
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Not kidding. Level it and not as a punitive measure but because it is the top end of a terror complex that will be used for the same shit if it is left standing.
The terrorists will just move somewhere else. And then there will be one fewer hospital for people who need medical care.

This is a really disturbing train of thought you're following here.
 
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The terrorists will just move somewhere else. And then there will be one fewer hospital for people who need medical care.

This is a really disturbing train of thought you're following here.

The terrorists are currently being rounded up and killed. I wasn't kidding earlier when I said destroy Hamas, root and stem. They should be killed and their bases obliterated until they unconditionally surrender. They can build a new hospital with the the billions I would be taking from the fat ass leaders sitting in Qatar after I killed them too.

 
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"The poor Palestinian civilians...so sad what is happening to them."

Palestinian "civilians" on 10/7:



"The poor kids..."

Palestinian kids:





Yes, yes, civilian deaths are bad and should not be celebrated. However, when someone asks why no ceasefire and why so heartless, well, it is because the Palestinians and frankly Muslim culture writ large, don't make for very sympathetic victims with even the tiniest scratch of the surface.
 
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A poll taken from 10/31 to 11/7? If what, of Palestinians in general or Palestinians trapped in Gaza?

Trying not to be ignorant here but...who the F is answering a poll right now? Gaza has basically been without power, water, supply chain lines and Internet for over a month.

However the Israeli government has been busted pushing blatant propaganda to the west to try to gain sympathy (my favorite was the general who put out a video warning Palestinians to evacuate south.... except he did it in broken English which is interesting since that's not the language and did it online even though there was no power much less internet service in the area. Case in point it was pure theatre meant for the west, not for the Palestinians).

That's just one a many blatantly fake, propaganda messages the Israeli government has put out.

Add to it that Netenyahu had to coddle up to the most extreme genocidal members of his party and put them in power (many who are on the record of wanting to simply eliminate the Palestinians all together, from back in the mid 2010's) along with the fact that the Israeli government refuses to allow for independent journalists to report (actually an incredible amount of journalists have been executed, I believe this has been the most deadly skirmish when it comes to piling up dead journalist carcasses) well, I don't trust a thing coming out of both parties.

My POV is we have two extremist groups who have seized power and two populations that are going to be the casualties for the void of humanity.
Those shifty Joos amirite…
 
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"The poor Palestinian civilians...so sad what is happening to them."

Palestinian "civilians" on 10/7:



"The poor kids..."

Palestinian kids:





Yes, yes, civilian deaths are bad and should not be celebrated. However, when someone asks why no ceasefire and why so heartless, well, it is because the Palestinians and frankly Muslim culture writ large, don't make for very sympathetic victims with even the tiniest scratch of the surface.
That's just a form of child abuse, isn't it?

Yet another thing that puzzles me about the dumb college pro-Palestinian protestors and people spouting their propaganda for "peace" and against "hatred." They don't even mention this--that the Palestinians are indoctrinating their children into a death cult to destroy Israel and the Jews. There can never be peace when that is going on. Never.
 
That's just a form of child abuse, isn't it?

Yet another thing that puzzles me about the dumb college pro-Palestinian protestors and people spouting their propaganda for "peace" and against "hatred." They don't even mention this--that the Palestinians are indoctrinating their children into a death cult to destroy Israel and the Jews. There can never be peace when that is going on.



And those kids eventually turn into this. Someone who shoots female concert goers point blank because "joos". Frankly the response to this around the world has really hardened my heart (admittedly not soft to begin with) against the Palestinians. You can't live with that. You just can't.


ETA: Apparently the security settings doesn't like you to see murderers killing people...try this, remove underscore if you need to see for yourself but they are savages.
ht_tps://twitter.com/YWNReporter/status/1726622939053723702
 
That's just a form of child abuse, isn't it?

Yet another thing that puzzles me about the dumb college pro-Palestinian protestors and people spouting their propaganda for "peace" and against "hatred." They don't even mention this--that the Palestinians are indoctrinating their children into a death cult to destroy Israel and the Jews. There can never be peace when that is going on. Never.

The rhetoric of many ME factions is harsh. Absolutely jarring, sickening, you pick the adjective. From a western perspective, death vendetta politics (or whatever you want to call it) is brutal stuff. But that doesn’t mean the complicated underlying geopolitical issues aren’t actually driving this. All of Israel’s neighbors used to promote this type of language but the driving issues were settled, mostly by US head-knocking/ appeasing/ juggling, and understandings & partnerships were formed. We’re asking Israel to put on the brakes now despite what Palestinians are teaching their kids.
 
The rhetoric of many ME factions is harsh. Absolutely jarring, sickening, you pick the adjective. From a western perspective, death vendetta politics (or whatever you want to call it) is brutal stuff. But that doesn’t mean the complicated underlying geopolitical issues aren’t actually driving this. All of Israel’s neighbors used to promote this type of language but the driving issues were settled, mostly by US head-knocking/ appeasing/ juggling, and understandings & partnerships were formed. We’re asking Israel to put on the brakes now despite what Palestinians are teaching their kids.
Now that's actually an interesting perspective Manichi. Probably the first one I've read of yours.


If we're being realistic, Jordan and Egypt didn't so much as find peace with israel as much as they realized the juice isn't worth the squeeze and the U.S. will ply them with money to not attack. Let's be honest about what the Abraham Accords really is. The U.S. paying Gulf States to be nice to Israel. Maybe that is worth the money, but let's not pretend it is some sort of well negotiated peace.

It seems clear at this oint that the 10/7 attack suceeded far beyond anyone's expectations, even Hamas. That complicates things as Israel rightfully wants to take a mighty vengeance, but it may be in their best interest to do so.
 
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The rhetoric of many ME factions is harsh. Absolutely jarring, sickening, you pick the adjective. From a western perspective, death vendetta politics (or whatever you want to call it) is brutal stuff. But that doesn’t mean the complicated underlying geopolitical issues aren’t actually driving this. All of Israel’s neighbors used to promote this type of language but the driving issues were settled, mostly by US head-knocking/ appeasing/ juggling, and understandings & partnerships were formed. We’re asking Israel to put on the brakes now despite what Palestinians are teaching their kids.

Nah, steamroll them first. There aren't enough dead Hamas yet. They are still fighting. It is over when they unconditionally surrender. Until then the punishment should continue.
 
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