See what I deal with? Can you believe I get shit on for being unable to deal with these clowns?
Israel under attack from Hamas
- Thread starter JamieDimonsBalls
- Start date
How much money do you think it cost to carry out Oct 7? It sounds like you think it is in the hundreds of billions. Again, it appears that AK-47s and other guns of that type and grenades caused the most deaths and are dirt cheap on the arms market. The cars used easily could be stolen or otherwise "appropriated" without going to a car lot and filling out a loan form. The gliders are the wild card. A single person glider isn't that much, heck, Iran might manufacture them. But if bought, it looks like $1500 would get you in a single person powered glider. I don't know how many 2 person gliders were used, those are more like $5000. So if they used 20 of those, that's $100,000 add in 60 other gliders we are at $175,000 (and again, assuming Iran doesn't make them). The guns, cars, and grenades are probably ubiquitous in Gaza.
The money is a red herring. Sanctions or no sanctions this could be pulled off. There is no way this cost nearly as much as what Russia is paying Iran for their drones ($140 million and weapons).
Now maybe there is something to your comment that Biden is weak, I don't know (and neither do you) if or how that played in. The big catch is, it doesn't matter who the US president is, Israel was going to respond as Israel would respond. Gandhi wouldn't have stopped Israel from what they are doing. I seriously doubt they expected Biden to stop a counterattack.
in fact, in most insurgency campaigns there is a hope of retaliation. There is an old saw that for every terrorist one kills, one creates two more. I believe there is a very good chance Hamas/Iran WANTED this Israeli attack. Sure, they may kill most of Hamas here and now, but a lot of non-hamas is being killed too. In typical guerilla warfare, their families and friends will produce a new generation of terrorists. In Hackworth's book, he states in guerilla warfare the best weapon to fight guerillas with would be a knife, but it is impractical. So a rifle is the best possible option. Artillery and air power create more guerillas than it kills.
The money didn't cause this to happen. Maybe, just maybe, fewer rockets are launched. Iran isn't the only source to fund Hamas.
According to the article below, Iran funds $70-$100 billion/year. Hamas makes $300-$400 billion using taxes, extortion, and border control. Add in they skim humanitarian money. Doubtless they have supporters around the world, including here, send them money too.
There is no reason this attack couldn't be funded without oil money. They didn't use million dollar precision missiles. No fleets of bombers and fighters, no companies of Hamas T-90 tanks.
CoH, isn't it safe to say the arms build up by Hamas has been going on for sometime ?
Seems to me the 10/07 attack has more to do with Hamas choosing the time and place rather than who happened to be in the Oval Office on 10/07.
Also the fact Israel was caught off guard on 10/07 seems relevant IMO, as in let us hit them now while they are unprepared.
You get shit on for not seeing you are the clown…
We aren’t talking about the cost of the attack itself. Hamas is trained, fed, housed, and uses a very elaborate infrastructure all with Iranian money. Same goes for the Houthis and Hezbollah both of whom have more sophisticated arms. Iranian money is the life blood of Middle East terror.
We have just seen the most savage, deadliest, and well rehearsed attack on Jews since WWII. We see daily attacks on US service men and women. The US also has the weakest, most timid, and most inept president since WWII. I don’t think this is coincidental.
Huh?
I just made a statement of fact. You are trying to obfuscate and go off on another tangent.
I don't blame Clinton for 9/11. I blame Osama Bin Laden.
Who do you think pays the salaries of Hamas, Hisbollah, Huthis, etc?How much money do you think it cost to carry out Oct 7? It sounds like you think it is in the hundreds of billions. Again, it appears that AK-47s and other guns of that type and grenades caused the most deaths and are dirt cheap on the arms market. The cars used easily could be stolen or otherwise "appropriated" without going to a car lot and filling out a loan form. The gliders are the wild card. A single person glider isn't that much, heck, Iran might manufacture them. But if bought, it looks like $1500 would get you in a single person powered glider. I don't know how many 2 person gliders were used, those are more like $5000. So if they used 20 of those, that's $100,000 add in 60 other gliders we are at $175,000 (and again, assuming Iran doesn't make them). The guns, cars, and grenades are probably ubiquitous in Gaza.
The money is a red herring. Sanctions or no sanctions this could be pulled off. There is no way this cost nearly as much as what Russia is paying Iran for their drones ($140 million and weapons).
Now maybe there is something to your comment that Biden is weak, I don't know (and neither do you) if or how that played in. The big catch is, it doesn't matter who the US president is, Israel was going to respond as Israel would respond. Gandhi wouldn't have stopped Israel from what they are doing. I seriously doubt they expected Biden to stop a counterattack.
in fact, in most insurgency campaigns there is a hope of retaliation. There is an old saw that for every terrorist one kills, one creates two more. I believe there is a very good chance Hamas/Iran WANTED this Israeli attack. Sure, they may kill most of Hamas here and now, but a lot of non-hamas is being killed too. In typical guerilla warfare, their families and friends will produce a new generation of terrorists. In Hackworth's book, he states in guerilla warfare the best weapon to fight guerillas with would be a knife, but it is impractical. So a rifle is the best possible option. Artillery and air power create more guerillas than it kills.
The money didn't cause this to happen. Maybe, just maybe, fewer rockets are launched. Iran isn't the only source to fund Hamas.
According to the article below, Iran funds $70-$100 billion/year. Hamas makes $300-$400 billion using taxes, extortion, and border control. Add in they skim humanitarian money. Doubtless they have supporters around the world, including here, send them money too.
There is no reason this attack couldn't be funded without oil money. They didn't use million dollar precision missiles. No fleets of bombers and fighters, no companies of Hamas T-90 tanks.
Hamas gets marching orders from Iran. Iran would not, and didnot, do anything like this with Trump in office.
Many of those were not involved in the attack. If the link is accurate that I provided, Iran contributes 20% (roughly) of Hamas' total budget. The point I am arguing against is that the oil money was a driving factor to the Oct attack. It seems to me that attack can easily happen without a penny of oil money. I am not saying we should let Iran have access to money, or that money from oil won't flow to future attacks.
Where do you get the 20% number? Where else is Hamas' money coming from?
I'm not sure that's the way to look at it.
You're right about the minimal operational cost. But Iran is not stupid: they knew they would be linked to this attack and risk even more, severe sanctions. So the money it might have thought guaranteed to last its people through another round of sanctions might have been important.
I provided the link to CO above, it is now below too. So most of it is from taxation and embezzlement in Gaza. This link doesn't discuss that I suspect there are some Palestinians around the world moving money to Hamas.
Our sanctions our pretty topped out. China desperately wants Iranian oil, Russia desperately wants Iranian drones. What are the odds they vote for increased UN sanctions? In fact, with our sanctions on Russia I suspect they will conduct an ever increasing amount of trade with Iran.
In fact, I would suggest our support of Ukraine and sanctions of Russia played a bigger role than oil money, Iran 100% knows no sanctions will pass the security council.
I provided the link to CO above, it is now below too. So most of it is from taxation and embezzlement in Gaza. This link doesn't discuss that I suspect there are some Palestinians around the world moving money to Hamas.
Yikes, when it comes to what we used to call money Hamas is rather sophisticated to the point only Snarlcakes would understand.
Oil, a natural resource provided by God the profits from which we all should share.
Instead we share the downsides (global warming) of oil consumption.
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Not too sure Israel was 'caught off guard', with over 100 agents in Gaza at the time of the attack.
Doesn't seem possible.
Don’t tell us that you think that Israel knew the attack was planned, but let it happen. That would put you in the Hall of Fame of Conspiracy Theories with the Pearl Harbor, JFK, 9/11, and the Florida Condo collapse (only one person actually believes this one) theories.
Not impossible, but highly improbable. But either way, if the improbability was based on a very long and well planned/ funded attack, then the intel failure wasn't a 3 day failure, it was a 3 year failure. ... That makes it much more likely better opsec than intel failure. Yeng/ Yang, One only has to be minimally better than the other after all. .... Well unless of course, there are "conflicted associates" that just can't decide if they side with Israel or Hamas. HMMMM DC/Cia starting shit that they can't control. It could never happen. EVER.
The Opsec excuse is Company man level false narrative.
The Hamas built mock buildings inside 10 ft. High berms, trained repeatedly, videoed the exercises and distributed the videos on the web. They had extensive training areas for the ultralight vehicles in plain view of satellite and other surveillance, within a few klicks of the border.
Read articles from BBC, WaPost, CNN on October 9th.
Hubris can't explain this.
Lack of resources can't explain this.
Something stinks about this.
Thanks.I provided the link to CO above, it is now below too. So most of it is from taxation and embezzlement in Gaza. This link doesn't discuss that I suspect there are some Palestinians around the world moving money to Hamas.
Regardless of the percentage, Iran runs the show:
In all, Iran has spent billions of dollars, according to government estimates, to arm, train and fund groups like Hamas, Hezbollah, Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) and others as proxies and fulcrum in its foreign and regional geopolitical policy goals – and to generally destabilize the Middle East and prevent peace among its warring factions.
“Not only did the Hamas attack come straight out of the Hezbollah playbook, but Iran has funded, trained, and armed both Hamas and Hezbollah for decades, investing billions of dollars over time in these groups in support of their terrorist activities,” wrote one speaker at a congressional hearing Thursday on terror funding.
“Ultimately, Iran is fundamentally complicit in Hamas and Hezbollah’s terrorist acts.”
Just using Goat's reply to me on you.
Didn't see you accusing him of snark. Not a surprise.
To be clear, I have no intention of absolving Iran. My only point is that the October attack was not necessarily impacted by the money from the hostage deal, or even oil sales. FWIW, China probably buys oil covertly anyway.
We should continue the embargo, I am not actually arguing otherwise. But like Ukraine's summer offensive, we are far too likely to believe it will be a huge success.
What we need to work on is the conditions that make Iran an attractive alternative across the region. Sure, some of it is Islamic fundamentalism. But too many countries have despotic leaders, too much poverty, no real rights. There was a time we were seen as the hope for downtrodden. Since 1950, our fear of communism and love of oul has us backing oppressors out of fear the people are communists. We need to think TE Lawrence. That is also the solution to Central America's failed states. We should be on the side of freedom fighters, not despots.
I don't think war against Iran is the solution, but if they attack US positions I would not bomb their Revolutionary Guards in Syria, I would hit their bases in Iran.
I would go oil fields. For every, attack on a U.S. installation, bomb another Oil field.
I would have no objections to that, my hope in attacking the Guards is that the more of them destroyed the more likely a rebellion will succeed.
The Soviet Commie oil sharing money goes to the oligarchs as chosen by Putin, not for the welfare of the general populace.
My never going to happen sharing of U.S. oil money going to say reduce the federal government deficits has more of socialist ring to it than a communist one by my definitions of communist and socialist.
Good read here on many of these points. The authors think the flaw in US policy is that it only considers Iran's terrorist networks while ignoring its other soft power efforts. Points how how cheaply Iran is able to punch above its weight in regional affairs. Also stresses Iran's strategic insecurities, which usually explains a country's level of aggression more than fluffy ideologies.
Gaza Health Ministry says Israel warned them to expect it "within minutes" and to tell people "to stay away from windows."
Israel-Hamas war live: White House says it has intelligence that Hamas was using Gaza hospital to run military operations
US spokesperson John Kirby says intelligence showed Hamas used hospital to run military operations and probably to store weapons, saying this constituted a war crime
IDF confirms it is operating against Hamas in a "certain part" of the hospital. It also confirms it warned Gazan health authorities, called on "all terrorists" in the hospital to surrender, and, according to the Guardian's translation, offered this tantalizing tidbit:
“in the continuation of the operation, incubators, medical equipment and baby food are expected to be transferred to the hospital”
Per CNN, IDF has entered the hospital complex with tanks, not just infantry. They attribute this reporting to a journalist on site.
