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Is anyone still a supporter of fan of Biden at this point?

jet812 said:
You are the flip side of the same coin….
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Aloha has posted In really bad faith in this thread. Something I thought was beneath him.

He still claims the investigation into Page wasn’t public knowledge before the election.

TDS is the only explanation I can think of.
 
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Hoopsdoc1978 said:
Aloha has posted In really bad faith in this thread. Something I thought was beneath him.

He still claims the investigation into Page wasn’t public knowledge before the election.

TDS is the only explanation I can think of.
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The only 'Republican' I know who can't bring himself to criticize any Democrat the way he criticizes Trump.

And there are many Democrats as bad, or worse, than Trump.
 
Hoopsdoc1978 said:
Aloha has posted In really bad faith in this thread. Something I thought was beneath him.

He still claims the investigation into Page wasn’t public knowledge before the election.

TDS is the only explanation I can think of.
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It's interesting because that's not what I hear him saying. I hear him saying that the public didn't know that the FBI was investigating Trump and that the FBI as an organization didn't put its finger on the scale of the election (and offers up the FBI announcing reopening the investigation into Hillary as evidence to the contrary.)

You started with the FBI was interfering in the election against Trump, which Aloha would counter that the FBI made moves that seemed to injure Hillary's campaign more, and then moved to we know that the FBI leaked the existence of their investigation into Carter Page, which isn't something that we KNOW (which I was point to previously.)

FWIW, the big problem I have in your logic lies in this (my emphasis added):

Hoopsdoc1978 said:
The FBI is part of the US intelligence community.

The Yahoo articles source’s were “members of the US intelligence community”.

There’s no other possibility.

It HAD to be the FBI.
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That's the part we don't know. You pointed out that other intelligence community organizations refused to engage with the FBI on investigating Page, which indicates that other members of the intelligence community were aware of the investigation...which means that there are other possibilities for the leak (including the possibility of the leak coming from someone in Congress briefed on the investigation as Aloha suggested was possible.)

I can buy that some members of the FBI had it out for Trump (not that it matters what I can buy). I imagine that some also had it out for Hillary given how much she was despised by most conservatives (and the FBI has typically been a conservative group), but it seems like TDS is the only explanation that you can think of behind your logjam with Aloha because that's the only conversation the two of you seem willing to engage in.
 
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hoosboot said:
It's interesting because that's not what I hear him saying. I hear him saying that the public didn't know that the FBI was investigating Trump and that the FBI as an organization didn't put its finger on the scale of the election (and offers up the FBI announcing reopening the investigation into Hillary as evidence to the contrary.)

You started with the FBI was interfering in the election against Trump, which Aloha would counter that the FBI made moves that seemed to injure Hillary's campaign more, and then moved to we know that the FBI leaked the existence of their investigation into Carter Page, which isn't something that we KNOW (which I was point to previously.)

FWIW, the big problem I have in your logic lies in this (my emphasis added):



That's the part we don't know. You pointed out that other intelligence community organizations refused to engage with the FBI on investigating Page, which indicates that other members of the intelligence community were aware of the investigation...which means that there are other possibilities for the leak (including the possibility of the leak coming from someone in Congress briefed on the investigation as Aloha suggested was possible.)

I can buy that some members of the FBI had it out for Trump (not that it matters what I can buy). I imagine that some also had it out for Hillary given how much she was despised by most conservatives (and the FBI has typically been a conservative group), but it seems like TDS is the only explanation that you can think of behind your logjam with Aloha because that's the only conversation the two of you seem willing to engage in.
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Exactly.
 
hoosboot said:
It's interesting because that's not what I hear him saying. I hear him saying that the public didn't know that the FBI was investigating Trump and that the FBI as an organization didn't put its finger on the scale of the election (and offers up the FBI announcing reopening the investigation into Hillary as evidence to the contrary.)

You started with the FBI was interfering in the election against Trump, which Aloha would counter that the FBI made moves that seemed to injure Hillary's campaign more, and then moved to we know that the FBI leaked the existence of their investigation into Carter Page, which isn't something that we KNOW (which I was point to previously.)

FWIW, the big problem I have in your logic lies in this (my emphasis added):



That's the part we don't know. You pointed out that other intelligence community organizations refused to engage with the FBI on investigating Page, which indicates that other members of the intelligence community were aware of the investigation...which means that there are other possibilities for the leak (including the possibility of the leak coming from someone in Congress briefed on the investigation as Aloha suggested was possible.)

I can buy that some members of the FBI had it out for Trump (not that it matters what I can buy). I imagine that some also had it out for Hillary given how much she was despised by most conservatives (and the FBI has typically been a conservative group), but it seems like TDS is the only explanation that you can think of behind your logjam with Aloha because that's the only conversation the two of you seem willing to engage in.
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A voice of sanity.

I have half a mind to ban your ass.
 
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hoosboot said:
It's interesting because that's not what I hear him saying. I hear him saying that the public didn't know that the FBI was investigating Trump and that the FBI as an organization didn't put its finger on the scale of the election (and offers up the FBI announcing reopening the investigation into Hillary as evidence to the contrary.)
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It doesn’t matter that we can’t point with 100 PERCENT CERTAINTY that it was the FBI who leaked this.

We KNOW it was “members of the US intelligence community”. That’s in the article.

If it happened to be the CIA or the NSA, that wouldn’t make anything any better.

But knowing what we now know about the way the FBI conducted itself during that time, it’s the only logical conclusion.

It wouldn’t make any sense for the CIA, for example, to refuse to help with the investigation, yet still leak its existence. Why would they do that?
hoosboot said:
You started with the FBI was interfering in the election against Trump, which Aloha would counter that the FBI made moves that seemed to injure Hillary's campaign more, and then moved to we know that the FBI leaked the existence of their investigation into Carter Page, which isn't something that we KNOW (which I was point to previously.)

FWIW, the big problem I have in your logic lies in this (my emphasis added):



That's the part we don't know. You pointed out that other intelligence community organizations refused to engage with the FBI on investigating Page, which indicates that other members of the intelligence community were aware of the investigation...which means that there are other possibilities for the leak (including the possibility of the leak coming from someone in Congress briefed on the investigation as Aloha suggested was possible.)

I can buy that some members of the FBI had it out for Trump (not that it matters what I can buy). I imagine that some also had it out for Hillary given how much she was despised by most conservatives (and the FBI has typically been a conservative group), but it seems like TDS is the only explanation that you can think of behind your logjam with Aloha because that's the only conversation the two of you seem willing to engage in.
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Again, what does it matter?

Assuming Yahoo wasn’t lying about its sources(why would they do that?), it’s clear that SOMEONE in the US intelligence community didn’t want Trump elected and took steps to make sure it didn’t happen.

That’s the whole point.

If you or Aloha want to quibble in minutia and say “well, you can’t say for SURE that it was THE FBI who tried to interfere in the 2016 election”, go right ahead.

We know that SOMEONE in the US intelligence community did.

THATS the takeaway here.

That’s what should give every American pause. That’s what should make every American hesitant to trust anything the US intelligence community has to say.

Aloha is arguing in bad faith when he fixates irrationally on whether or not it’s 1000 percent certain that it was the FBI who leaked this.

It doesn’t really matter. SOMEONE in the US intelligence community did.
 
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Hoopsdoc1978 said:
It doesn’t matter that we can’t point with 100 PERCENT CERTAINTY that it was the FBI who leaked this.

We KNOW it was “members of the US intelligence community”. That’s in the article.

If it happened to be the CIA or the NSA, that wouldn’t make anything any better.

But knowing what we now know about the way the FBI conducted itself during that time, it’s the only logical conclusion.

It wouldn’t make any sense for the CIA, for example, to refuse to help with the investigation, yet still leak its existence. Why would they do that?

Again, what does it matter?

Assuming Yahoo wasn’t lying about its sources(why would they do that?), it’s clear that SOMEONE in the US intelligence community didn’t want Trump elected and took steps to make sure it didn’t happen.

That’s the whole point.

If you or Aloha want to quibble in minutia and say “well, you can’t say for SURE that it was THE FBI who tried to interfere in the 2016 election”, go right ahead.

We know that SOMEONE in the US intelligence community did.

THATS the takeaway here.

That’s what should give every American pause. That’s what should make every American hesitant to trust anything the US intelligence community has to say.

Aloha is arguing in bad faith when he fixates irrationally on whether or not it’s 1000 percent certain that it was the FBI who leaked this.

It doesn’t really matter. SOMEONE in the US intelligence community did.
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A voice of sanity.

Expect to be banned by UncleMark
 
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For Gods sake, Strozk, one of the FBI agents in charge of crossfire hurricane, was sending texts in July of 2016 saying that he would “stop Trump from being elected”.

And this info was leaked in September.

I mean, what do you want? A signed confession?

Come on.
 
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Hoopsdoc1978 said:
It doesn’t matter that we can’t point with 100 PERCENT CERTAINTY that it was the FBI who leaked this.

We KNOW it was “members of the US intelligence community”. That’s in the article.

If it happened to be the CIA or the NSA, that wouldn’t make anything any better.

But knowing what we now know about the way the FBI conducted itself during that time, it’s the only logical conclusion.

It wouldn’t make any sense for the CIA, for example, to refuse to help with the investigation, yet still leak its existence. Why would they do that?

Again, what does it matter?

Assuming Yahoo wasn’t lying about its sources(why would they do that?), it’s clear that SOMEONE in the US intelligence community didn’t want Trump elected and took steps to make sure it didn’t happen.

That’s the whole point.

If you or Aloha want to quibble in minutia and say “well, you can’t say for SURE that it was THE FBI who tried to interfere in the 2016 election”, go right ahead.

We know that SOMEONE in the US intelligence community did.

THATS the takeaway here.

That’s what should give every American pause. That’s what should make every American hesitant to trust anything the US intelligence community has to say.

Aloha is arguing in bad faith when he fixates irrationally on whether or not it’s 1000 percent certain that it was the FBI who leaked this.

It doesn’t really matter. SOMEONE in the US intelligence community did.
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I don't think Aloha's point is that it's not 100% certain it was the FBI. I think his point is that the public didn't know the FBI was nosing into Trump until after the election. I think this entire discussion has been a complete waste of time, because everyone is talking about something different.
 
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TheOriginalHappyGoat said:
I don't think Aloha's point is that it's not 100% certain it was the FBI. I think his point is that the public didn't know the FBI was nosing into Trump until after the election.
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Honest question-why do you keep saying this?

Are you saying no one knew of the investigation or are you making a distinction between an “investigation of Trump” and an “investigation of the Trump campaign”? I’m genuinely curious.

The existence of an investigation by US intelligence into the Trump campaigns contacts with Russians was reported on in September of 2016. The election was in November.

Last I checked, and I could be wrong, September is before November on the calendar.

For the purposes of what I’m talking about, the impact on the election, there’s no difference between an investigation of Trump and an investigation of the Trump campaign.
 
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hoosboot said:
If it doesn't matter, why did you bring it up?

You're all over the place on this, doc. You keep assuming things that flatter your preconceptions and insist that they are unassailable facts. It's hard to discuss important topics with you when that's the route you take.
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No, I’m not all over the place on this. I’ve been saying the exact same thing the whole time.
 
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Hoopsdoc1978 said:
No, I’m not all over the place on this. I’ve been saying the exact same thing the whole time.
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Hmmm . . . early on, I understood you to insist that the FBI leaked the notion that the FBI was investigating Trump. Then you switched to it doesn't matter whether the FBI, CIA or NSA leaked it.

I think that's what hoosboot is saying is "all over the map". That's what I got out of his post anyway.
 
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Joe_Hoopsier said:
Capitalism was well positioned to handle the "pandemic" and then GOV stepped in to make damn sure that didn't happen until a later date that had been predetermined. full stop.
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Continue to enlighten us! Please explain fascism and Marxism to us next. Oh, and don't forget woke. I'm hanging on every word
 
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Bowlmania said:
The "banana republic" argument is nonsense and doesn't fly.

A boatload of politicians (from both parties) have been indicted and convicted of crimes throughout our country's history. Nobody, including Trump, gets a pass simply because they hold (or held) political office.

There's zero evidence that Biden is communicating, let alone coordinating, with Garland or Smith on any of this.

Read the indictment. It's damning. Trump has no defense. He's even publicly admitted to some of the charges. Fvcking fool can't keep his mouth shut even when he's under indictment. He's a defense lawyer's nightmare.

A couple of comments about your "next Republican President" prediction. Republican nominees for president have won the popular vote exactly once in the last 30+ years. Trump is 0 for 2. Given the party's embrace of Trumpism and the fact that the party is out of step with a majority of the country (including independents) on some key issues, you probably shouldn't hold your breath for that next Republican president.

Hopefully no future major-party nominee for president will be so utterly devoid of character, integrity and morals, as batshit crazy, and as utterly unfit for the presidency as Trump.
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No president or former president has ever faced indictment. It's new territory.

Who gives a shit about the popular vote. We don't have a national presidential election by popular vote for a reason. Both democrats and republicans are out of step with the majority. Not sure where you're getting your information but democrats aren't all that liked either.

biden is also a great example of your last paragraph. He's just as much a disgusting asshole as Trump.

If this democrat party ran the country long enough it would be a shithole. We have enough examples of that right now.
 
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Cthulhu85 said:
If this democrat party ran the country long enough it would be a shithole.
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Well as you say, we have plenty of example within our great country already. It's not like like we have to guess. They already ruin everything they touch. BUUUUT they do it for their feelz. and power, never underestimate their greed of power. (that part isn't limited to the D's).
 
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Cthulhu85 said:
No president or former president has ever faced indictment. It's new territory.

Who gives a shit about the popular vote. We don't have a national presidential election by popular vote for a reason. Both democrats and republicans are out of step with the majority. Not sure where you're getting your information but democrats aren't all that liked either.

biden is also a great example of your last paragraph. He's just as much a disgusting asshole as Trump.

If this democrat party ran the country long enough it would be a shithole. We have enough examples of that right now.
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whatever you say francis.
 
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TheOriginalHappyGoat said:
I don't think Aloha's point is that it's not 100% certain it was the FBI. I think his point is that the public didn't know the FBI was nosing into Trump until after the election. I think this entire discussion has been a complete waste of time, because everyone is talking about something different.
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I propose Aloha and HoopsDoc settle this like men: a one-v-one game of pickleball. Winner is right, loser is wrong. It is the only way.
 
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IU_Hickory said:
Maybe because our choice was Biden or Trump and Biden has done worlds better than the only other option we were given.

And I don't think he's done a bad job at all...but then I don't read conservative media bias/bull shit either so there is that.
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If you honestly believe that Biden hasn’t done a bad job then please tell us what brand of edibles you use! 🤪
 
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Conservative bracket:

Aloha v. HoopsDoc

DANC v. Cray

Joe Hoopsier v. McMurtry

IndianaFTW v. IUCrazy

GiggityGoo (all versions) v. Stollcpa

CoH v. Univee2

Spartan v. jet812

JDB v. Twenty02


Liberal bracket:

Lars v. Sope

Goat v. Hickory

Uncle Mark v. TommyCracker

BulkVanderhuge v. Lucy

Cosmic v. hoosboot

Zeke v. bawlmer

Mr. Bing v. Marvin

TMFT v. Ohio Guy


Some have been left off because I needed 32 for a number and couldn't do 64. Others because I think they've said they were hurt recently. Others, because I wasn't sure which side to put you on.

I did not take the time to rank them. But here you go. Who wlns?

Top prize (for motivation): champ gets to ban one poster for 1 year, including all handles.
 
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