I Don't Understand All The Negativity Towards Woody

[Mutton Bustin']

Woody is underachieving given the immense resources and advantages he has at IU.

- IU has the top or close to the top NIL in the B1G. Around top-10 nationally.
- IU commits the most athletic department resources to basketball in the B1G. I believe we have the largest bball budget in the B1G.
- Our facilities are very good, more or less as good as anywhere in the country
- We have an amazing homecourt
- We have incredible fan support, especially for being crappy for 30 years
- It doesn't matter much but we have a great history
- Bloomington is a very nice place 50 minutes from a midsize city and airport. Players have a great life on campus.

We have all of the above and we can barely make the tournament, and this year looks like the NIT. Next year doesn't look much better. We're in the 90s in KenPom.

If we have top-10 resources, we should be closer to a top-10 team, and we are not, at all, AT ALL, even close.

I like Woody, but it was a dumb risk by Dolson to hire an old NBA guy and hope he would instantly understand all the nuances of college ball and be a top college coach.

 

[IUbball_lifer]

Woody is underachieving given the immense resources and advantages he has at IU.

- IU has the top or close to the top NIL in the B1G. Around top-10 nationally.
- IU commits the most athletic department resources to basketball in the B1G. I believe we have the largest bball budget in the B1G.
- Our facilities are very good, more or less as good as anywhere in the country
- We have an amazing homecourt
- We have incredible fan support, especially for being crappy for 30 years
- It doesn't matter much but we have a great history
- Bloomington is a very nice place 50 minutes from a midsize city and airport. Players have a great life on campus.

We have all of the above and we can barely make the tournament, and this year looks like the NIT. Next year doesn't look much better. We're in the 90s in KenPom.

If we have top-10 resources, we should be closer to a top-10 team, and we are not, at all, AT ALL, even close.

I like Woody, but it was a dumb risk by Dolson to hire an old NBA guy and hope he would instantly understand all the nuances of college ball and be a top college coach.

In this transfer environment, you can’t predict next year. If Woody returned Malik and MM, with McNeely coming - and with our NIL, he could pull some guys out of the portal and have a strong team. There are too many variables to know about next yr. Looking at Georgia, for example - they got several experienced transfer guys from mid major schools and they have won 11 straight and leading Tennessee right now by 6 late. Whereas UCLA is, I believe, 6 - 9. Who would expect either of those?

 

[Mutton Bustin]

Agree you can't predict the future, but you can consider what's likely. It's possible next year we're top-15/20, but it doesn't seem too probable given it would be such a big leap from where we are now.

We've currently got three five stars. How many five stars do we need to be good?

Woody will probably get a shot at the spring portal, so we'll see it play out. I'd like to be optimistic, but I don't see it.

 

[jacksback]

What's Fife doing these days?

I think he's still hanging around in Bloomington but I could be wrong.

 

[steelyvan]

Except Bobby Knight the greatest to ever do it won less than 24 games like 20 of his 30 years. You are either a troll or dumb. Nobody would come here and live up to those standards.

folks in Bama never thought they could replace Bear Bryant. with Saban, they did.

 

[SIhoosier26]

Many can't accept that we haven't been a real Blueblood program since the mid 90s and it takes awhile to build back to it.

 

[kmathum]

folks in Bama never thought they could replace Bear Bryant. with Saban, they did.

Yeah but it took them about half a dozen to get there.

 

[Beorik]

folks in Bama never thought they could replace Bear Bryant. with Saban, they did.

My point was, based off his expectations, he would have wanted to fire Knight in about 20 of his 30 years. No coach will come in and win 24+, be top 10, and no lower than a 4-5 seed every single year. Our best coach ever wasn’t even close to doing that.

 

[ndhuntington]

Didn't they only play 29 games in the 70s not sure about 80s but that would effect wins per season.

 

[ams66]

My point was, based off his expectations, he would have wanted to fire Knight in about 20 of his 30 years. No coach will come in and win 24+, be top 10, and no lower than a 4-5 seed every single year. Our best coach ever wasn’t even close to doing that.

Yeah it seems some folks remember 1976 or 1987 and remember that as every season under RMK. But there were certainly relative low points, especially his last 5 or 6 years. And more and more people were starting to think that he had lost his magic at that point.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

We won’t have the same front court next year. One or All of MM, KW, and MR will be gone.

What is it with you Negative Nancies posting your pessimistic opinions as if they're facts. They might be gone, they all might return. None of us know.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

No I’m not a fan of X. I think he is a cancer to the team. He may be more talented than Cupps but THEY play better team basketball with Cupps in over X

If Woodson didn't play him the rest of the season it's a lock that you would criticize him for it. I'd bet a lot on that.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

Woody is underachieving given the immense resources and advantages he has at IU.

- IU has the top or close to the top NIL in the B1G. Around top-10 nationally.
- IU commits the most athletic department resources to basketball in the B1G. I believe we have the largest bball budget in the B1G.
- Our facilities are very good, more or less as good as anywhere in the country
- We have an amazing homecourt
- We have incredible fan support, especially for being crappy for 30 years
- It doesn't matter much but we have a great history
- Bloomington is a very nice place 50 minutes from a midsize city and airport. Players have a great life on campus.

We have all of the above and we can barely make the tournament, and this year looks like the NIT. Next year doesn't look much better. We're in the 90s in KenPom.

If we have top-10 resources, we should be closer to a top-10 team, and we are not, at all, AT ALL, even close.

I like Woody, but it was a dumb risk by Dolson to hire an old NBA guy and hope he would instantly understand all the nuances of college ball and be a top college coach.

Yeah, but we also have posters like this who post all negativity in their very first post on a fan board. That couldn't be appealing to potential coaches.

 

[Beorik]

Didn't they only play 29 games in the 70s not sure about 80s but that would effect wins per season.

We play 2-5 more games now than in the 70s and roughly the same amount of games as the 80s. If we were to ever win the Big Ten tournament we might play 2-3 more gams than the 80s. 34 total in 79 and 35 in 81. Those numbers are basically what we play now. But each year it seemed to vary by 5 games one way or the other. But even based on win % Knight still doesn’t come close to winning 24 every year and more years than not he finished outside of the top 10.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

Agree you can't predict the future, but you can consider what's likely. It's possible next year we're top-15/20, but it doesn't seem too probable given it would be such a big leap from where we are now.

We've currently got three five stars. How many five stars do we need to be good?

Woody will probably get a shot at the spring portal, so we'll see it play out. I'd like to be optimistic, but I don't see it.

It would be nice if the perpetually pessimistic didn't pretend that they would like to be optimistic. It's not believable.

 

[kmathum]

My point was, based off his expectations, he would have wanted to fire Knight in about 20 of his 30 years. No coach will come in and win 24+, be top 10, and no lower than a 4-5 seed every single year. Our best coach ever wasn’t even close to doing that.

A lot of people around here seem to think just making the tournament is good enough. I'm not one of them.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

A lot of people around here seem to think just making the tournament is good enough. I'm not one of them.

I don't think any of us think that.

 

[Beorik]

Agree you can't predict the future, but you can consider what's likely. It's possible next year we're top-15/20, but it doesn't seem too probable given it would be such a big leap from where we are now.

We've currently got three five stars. How many five stars do we need to be good?

Woody will probably get a shot at the spring portal, so we'll see it play out. I'd like to be optimistic, but I don't see it.

How many 5 stars do we have playing at top 5 star level? I would argue none since they are all freshman and sophomores.

Unfortunately IU has 3 star talent as their upperclassmen. If Woodson keeps recruiting like he has these last two years we will eventually have a talented roster top to bottom.

 

[kmathum]

It would be nice if the perpetually pessimistic didn't pretend that they would like to be optimistic. It's not believable.

You seem to be perpetually optimistic. Don't you see any cause for concern with Woody?

 

[bsmitty08]

If Woodson didn't play him the rest of the season it's a lock that you would criticize him for it. I'd bet a lot on that.

No I wouldn’t, sorry. Biggest issue of Woody was not getting a guard

 

[kmathum]

I don't think any of us think that.

Are you sure about that?

 

[Crusty The Baker]

The 3 years prior to Woody coming to IU; we were 51-43; 24-35 (conf) & 0-6 vs Purdue..

In 2.5 years, Woody is 58-31; 25-21 (conf) & 3-1 vs Purdue

He has recruited at a high level - JHS (NBA), MR (NBA talent), Cupps is going to be solid, Ware, MM, JN, etc..

Losing Jakai Newton really killed us this year. We would be a different team with him. Have you seen his tapes?

If everyone comes back (but losing XJ & TG) & we can sign 1-2 stud Grad Student Guards, we can go a long way next year..

I think that people are much more likely to give the benefit of the doubt to someone they identify with/relate to.

 

[Beorik]

A lot of people around here seem to think just making the tournament is good enough. I'm not one of them.

I don’t know anyone who thinks making the tournament is good enough. However if you think its consistent conference Championships and deep tournament run by year 2 and beyond or bust you will likely never keep any coach longer than 3-4 years.

IU’s basketball program was a shell of its former self by the time Woodson was hired. He has exceeded my expectations for years 1 and 2. I am excited to see what he does over the next 3-4 more years.

 

[kmathum]

I don’t know anyone who thinks making the tournament is good enough. However if you think its consistent conference Championships and deep tournament run by year 2 and beyond or bust you will likely never keep any coach longer than 3-4 years.

IU’s basketball program was a shell of its former self by the time Woodson was hired. He has exceeded my expectations for years 1 and 2. I am excited to see what he does over the next 3-4 more years.

That's exactly what I'm talking about. Exceeding expectations?

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

You seem to be perpetually optimistic. Don't you see any cause for concern with Woody?

Optimism is better for your health. There are things I've had some concerns about, but he's clearly an upgrade over Miller. I do get a little loud at times when watching a game about certain things that really irritate me, like bad rebounding and free throw shooting. Fundamental stuff. However, whining like a toddler just isn't my bag. After the season I will make an assessment about whether or not we should move forward with Woodson.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

No I wouldn’t, sorry. Biggest issue of Woody was not getting a guard

I'd bet a whole lot that you would. I'm serious as a heart attack about that. It is what you do.

 

[T.M.P.]

He doesn't have a great post game, and puts the ball down too often.

Which is why he's a late lottery pick.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

Are you sure about that?

Pretty sure. I've not seen anyone that has said it. Certainly not me. I think I have higher expectations than the NNW&CC for sure.

 

[T.M.P.]

Mgbako has a ways to go to convince the NBA he is worth a draft pick.

Needs improvement with his handle and awareness. He's currently not even in the top 100 so ... if he goes it's most likely undrafted or late 2nd. Same with Malik ...

 

[kmathum]

Optimism is better for your health. There are things I've had some concerns about, but he's clearly an upgrade over Miller. I do get a little loud at times when watching a game about certain things that really irritate me, like bad rebounding and free throw shooting. Fundamental stuff. However, whining like a toddler just isn't my bag. After the season I will make an assessment about whether or not we should move forward with Woodson.

I guess I'm just a guy who prefers realism over optimism.

 

[ButHerEmails]

I don't know, but he was doing 82-97 as IPFW's head coach.

Fife still lives near Bloomington as far as I know. At least this past summer he still did. He and Hornsby are still close.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

I guess I'm just a guy who prefers realism over optimism.

Perfect! Every perpetually pessimistic fan on this board claims they're only being realistic. I could have won a bet that you'd say that. I've seen perpetually pessimistic fans predict IU was going to lose 10 minutes into a game when IU is down by 10 and defend themselves by saying they're "just being realistic." After IU ends up winning by 15, they have nothing to say about their premature pessimistic prediction. I'm not sure what happens in your heads. I think it would be a great research project by some psychology majors.

 

[T.M.P.]

The 3 years prior to Woody coming to IU; we were 51-43; 24-35 (conf) & 0-6 vs Purdue..

In 2.5 years, Woody is 58-31; 25-21 (conf) & 3-1 vs Purdue

He has recruited at a high level - JHS (NBA), MR (NBA talent), Cupps is going to be solid, Ware, MM, JN, etc..

Losing Jakai Newton really killed us this year. We would be a different team with him. Have you seen his tapes?

If everyone comes back (but losing XJ & TG) & we can sign 1-2 stud Grad Student Guards, we can go a long way next year..

This board is filled with the chronic malcontent ....

 

[Vern Pain]

Fife still lives near Bloomington as far as I know. At least this past summer he still did. He and Hornsby are still close.

Hornsby is a cardiologist here. I actually saw him to get cardiac evaluation prior to a medical procedure. Nice guy. I wonder if Fife still believes that a road exists that leads him back to IU? I would guess he's had opportunities elsewhere.

 

[Vern Pain]

Yeah but it took them about half a dozen to get there.

They had some success with Bill Curry. They won a natty with Gene Stallings.

 

[T.M.P.]

I guess I'm just a guy who prefers realism over optimism.

Naw, you're just a lil' B ...

 

[Beorik]

That's exactly what I'm talking about. Exceeding expectations?

For years 1 and 2 after winning 12 games the year before he got here?!?!?! Hell yes exceeding based off what we were prior to Woodson. I certainly didn’t have him winning 21 and 23 games, making two tournaments, winning games in each tournament, finishing second in the Big Ten, turning TJD into a NBA lock, landing 4 top 30 recruits all in his first two years. You’re insane if you expected those results and more in his first two years based on where we were.

 

[kmathum]

Naw, you're just a lil' B ...

You are indeed a strange person

 

[kmathum]

Perfect! Every perpetually pessimistic fan on this board claims they're only being realistic. I could have won a bet that you'd say that. I've seen perpetually pessimistic fans predict IU was going to lose 10 minutes into a game when IU is down by 10 and defend themselves by saying they're "just being realistic." After IU ends up winning by 15, they have nothing to say about their premature pessimistic prediction. I'm not sure what happens in your heads. I think it would be a great research project by some psychology majors.

I have higher expectations for our program than you

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

I have higher expectations for our program than you

You absolutely do not. That's another ridiculously stupid thing that the perpetually pessimistic Negative Nancy Whine and Cheese Club members say. I'm perplexed by how you guys don't know that you sound ridiculous. Great psychology research project for sure.