How will the BIG's cancellation of 2020 football affect BIG recruiting . . .

UncleMark

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If it's the same or God forbid more, then the people that made these decisions need to be held accountable and removed from their jobs.
Their decisions were based on the best available medical advice at the time. Hardly grounds for having their heads on a pike if things turn out differently than expected.
 

UncleMark

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Think in terms of Brady Feeney . . . will IU have any liability exposure to Feeney for any medical conditions that befall him resulting from his COVID-19 diagnosis while practicing at IU this summer?
I dunno. Does IU have any liability when an athlete sustains a severe injury?
BTW, I don't even know whether Feeney contracted the coronavirus while at IU. And I don't know whether that would matter in a court case if he were to file one . . . this uncertainty likely pushed the BIG in making the decision to postpone/cancel 2020 fall sports.
While IANAL, I suspect that the player would have to show negligence on IU's part to have any chance of a successful lawsuit. In Feeney's case, his mom already has said that IU did everything they could.
 
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TMFT

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Would the schools have any liability for non-playing players getting the coronavirus like those schools might have had with respect to playing players?

Think in terms of Brady Feeney . . . will IU have any liability exposure to Feeney for any medical conditions that befall him resulting from his COVID-19 diagnosis while practicing at IU this summer?

BTW, I don't even know whether Feeney contracted the coronavirus while at IU. And I don't know whether that would matter in a court case if he were to file one . . . this uncertainty likely pushed the BIG in making the decision to postpone/cancel 2020 fall sports.
The schools are going to have very little exposure to liability for kids getting sick on campus (unless they really screw the pooch on their protocols). If they're promoting/following the CDC guidelines it's going to be hard to prove that schools are acting negligently. And even assuming the schools ARE being negligent, if the sick kid is found to be at all contributorily negligent they're barred from getting a recovery (at least in Indiana). Any I mean any like, no medical bills, no lost wages, no pain & suffering, no wrongful death damages, no permanent disability damages.

And that is still assuming that they'd be able to prove that they got it at school vs. at a bar/party/Lake Monroe pontoon boat/etc. Which is a PRETTY BIG assumption.

And even if a student were able to make a good claim, the government has a $700k damages cap. Sounds like a lot, unless you're dead or permanently disabled. Quick sidebar, after the State Fair stage collapse, the legislature had to pass a special law to increase the aggregate cap ($5M/incident) for that specific situation because of the large number of people hurt/killed.

If you ever want to feel depressed about how the government takes care of itself by writing statutes in its favor, go to scholar.google.com and search for "Indiana tort claims act" to find out how difficult it is to successfully prosecute a claim against the government.
 
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DANC

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The schools are going to have very little exposure to liability for kids getting sick on campus (unless they really screw the pooch on their protocols). If they're promoting/following the CDC guidelines it's going to be hard to prove that schools are acting negligently. And even assuming the schools ARE being negligent, if the sick kid is found to be at all contributorily negligent they're barred from getting a recovery (at least in Indiana). Any I mean any like, no medical bills, no lost wages, no pain & suffering, no wrongful death damages, no permanent disability damages.

And that is still assuming that they'd be able to prove that they got it at school vs. at a bar/party/Lake Monroe pontoon boat/etc. Which is a PRETTY BIG assumption.

And even if a student were able to make a good claim, the government has a $700k damages cap. Sounds like a lot, unless you're dead or permanently disabled. Quick sidebar, after the State Fair stage collapse, the legislature had to pass a special law to increase the aggregate cap ($5M/incident) for that specific situation because of the large number of people hurt/killed.

If you ever want to feel depressed about how the government takes care of itself by writing statutes in its favor, go to scholar.google.com and search for "Indiana tort claims act" to find out how difficult it is to successfully prosecute a claim against the government.
My grandfather used to say "You can't sue the King".

I never knew what that meant until I got older.
 
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BGunn

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Their decisions were based on the best available medical advice at the time. Hardly grounds for having their heads on a pike if things turn out differently than expected.
Are you sure about that because the SEC and ACC medical people don't seem to see it that way. They seem to thinking playing is okay.

My girlfriend's pediatrician all but told her that this was just the flu and kids would be fine going back to school. She also said one of the baby's that died here in KY actually died of SIDS but since they tested positive for Covid, it counted as a stat even though the baby's Drs firmly believed Covid had nothing to do with it. My point being, even the medical people can't agree on this so I don't think there really is any 'best available medical advice'.
 

UncleMark

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Are you sure about that because the SEC and ACC medical people don't seem to see it that way. They seem to thinking playing is okay.

My girlfriend's pediatrician all but told her that this was just the flu and kids would be fine going back to school. She also said one of the baby's that died here in KY actually died of SIDS but since they tested positive for Covid, it counted as a stat even though the baby's Drs firmly believed Covid had nothing to do with it. My point being, even the medical people can't agree on this so I don't think there really is any 'best available medical advice'.
Then screw it. Everyone does anything they want. We'll find out in the end who was right. Are you feeling lucky?
 

76-1

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Are you sure about that because the SEC and ACC medical people don't seem to see it that way. They seem to thinking playing is okay.

My girlfriend's pediatrician all but told her that this was just the flu and kids would be fine going back to school. She also said one of the baby's that died here in KY actually died of SIDS but since they tested positive for Covid, it counted as a stat even though the baby's Drs firmly believed Covid had nothing to do with it. My point being, even the medical people can't agree on this so I don't think there really is any 'best available medical advice'.
Your girlfriends pediatrician is an idiot and she should find a new one pronto...

There's a reason this was named a "Novel" Corna virus and that's because it has traits and effects that the medical community has never seen before.
 

Ohio Guy

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. . . for 2021 and beyond? Is 2020 a mere aberration? Or will this have a lasting impact on BIG recruiting?

If a kid has a choice to go to Missouri, GA Tech, IU or Air Force in 2022, does this make any difference?
I don't believe this will hurt some of the top recruiting schools in the league significantly. AFAIK, they haven't restricted coaches from recruiting - maybe this gives the B10 coaches MORE time to contact/reach out to recruits.

The pitch against the B10 that they cancelled their season over COVID is a pretty flimsy attack. It's not like they're just randomly going to cancel thing frivolously. And just because one team/conference is playing a shell of a season doesn't mean kids and their families forget B10 football programs exist.
 

jsglenn4

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All it takes are 2 bad classes and you’re done for.
All of us here can remember IU having more than 2 bad classes in a row and yet things turned around because of an administration that decided to put emphasis on football and did so in a competent manner. If necessary, we will do so again. The difference being, the rest of the Big10 will be operating under the same handicap as Indiana. There will still only be 85 scholarships on offer at ACC/SEC schools. There will still be plenty of good players for IU to sign. Might this have a negative effect on recruiting? That's very possible, but the world will not end and we will quickly get back on our feet.
 

mushroomgod_1

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Their decisions were based on the best available medical advice at the time. Hardly grounds for having their heads on a pike if things turn out differently than expected.

All 5 P5 conferences will claim their decision is based on the 'best available medical advice at the time'. Yet 3/5 P5 conferences have made a different decision, at least at this time.

So how do you know the B10 decision wasn't liability driven? Especially given that they haven't responded to the 'we want to play' movement's contention that football players not playing football but living on campus will have as much or more chance of getting the COVID than players playing the games, but under closer supervision.

If a player gets COVID from practice or a game, is it more likely that he will have a heart condition, or that it will be more serious, than if the same man got the virus on campus? I don't know, but I bet the BT commish doesn't either.
 
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TMFT

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All 5 P5 conferences will claim their decision is based on the 'best available medical advice at the time'.
That's a great point. Reminds me of how Indiana courts always make the point when analyzing search & seizure cases under the State constitution that (paraphrasing) "the Indiana equivalent of the 4th Amendment is more restrictive than the federal." I was discussing that with a friend and he said, "Well of course they say that. It can't be LESS restrictive."
 
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mushroomgod_1

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On a college campus with 50k people you’ll never prove where you caught covid.

No, but IF the other conferences play you'll know how many SEC FBers got it v. how many BT FBers got it. If the #s are roughly the same the BT commish & presidents will have made a $500M mistake.
 
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UncleMark

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No, but IF the other conferences play you'll know how many SEC FBers got it v. how many BT FBers got it. If the #s are roughly the same the BT commish & presidents will have made a $500M mistake.
I hope the B1G and Pac12 are wrong. Why? Because that would mean the others are right, and that the consequences of playing aren't that big of a deal. If it's the other way around, the consequences will be profound.
 

mobilehoosier

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If SEC/ACC get through a season perfectly, B1G will look weak. If they put kids at risk for $$$ and experience a catastrophe they could lose more than a few dollars.
I hate the decision but I think it's the correct move.
Go Hoosiers!
 
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mushroomgod_1

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I hope the B1G and Pac12 are wrong. Why? Because that would mean the others are right, and that the consequences of playing aren't that big of a deal. If it's the other way around, the consequences will be profound.

Not necessarily. Have the consequences of playing MLB and the NBA so far been "profound"?

If the other conferences experience problems playing, they will shut things down.
 
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mushroomgod_1

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If SEC/ACC get through a season perfectly, B1G will look weak. If they put kids at risk for $$$ and experience a catastrophe they could lose more than a few dollars.
I hate the decision but I think it's the correct move.
Go Hoosiers!

Think about this.....the SEC, the Big 12, the ACC, Harbaugh, Day, Allen, Franklin, and Frost all wanted to play. If any BT coach supported not playing before the decision was made, he wasn't public about his opinion. Those guys all get paid (maybe 90%, but paid) play or not, they all have close relationships with the players, and their parents, and they all wanted to play. Does that not give you pause?

PS1: Read Harbaugh's long letter about this issue.

PS2: If you watched the BT commissioner's press conference, you know that he did not cite a specific fact in 20 minutes of droning on as to why the BT is right and the other conferences are wrong.
 
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76-1

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Think about this.....the SEC, the Big 12, the ACC, Harbaugh, Day, Allen, Franklin, and Frost all wanted to play. If any BT coach supported not playing before the decision was made, he wasn't public about his opinion. Those guys all get paid (maybe 90%, but paid) play or not, they all have close relationships with the players, and their parents, and they all wanted to play. Does that not give you pause?

PS1: Read Harbaugh's long letter about this issue.

PS2: If you watched the BT commissioner's press conference, you know that he did not cite a specific fact in 20 minutes of droning on as to why the BT is right and the other conferences are wrong.
Harbaugh and Frost clearly have taken far too many shots to the cranium and Day and Franklin are consistently all about Day and Franklin... I'd be very cautious using any of those jokers as my go to sources for making medical decisions...
 
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In the end I don't think the SEC or Big 12 play at all. They are posturing and stalling on announcing it while they are praying for something that allows them to play. The SEC has not released their schedule yet.
 
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Saying that fans in Indiana don't want to see basketball over IU football...? Crazy talk..That's like a zillion to one....And I support both with what little cash I make..
Relax...Those other three conference's are in for a mess..
They'll be multiple teams that play more or less games because of covid cancellations..
Wouldn't surprise me if it doesn't get shut down by Columbus Day
 
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I'm sorry you and your friends of a certain age never got to know IU in it's glory days.

My daugher was 10 when we went to the 2002 FF and that's kept her interest. When she was a Freshman at IU, we beat Kentucky and she got swept up in the feeling of euphoria (as we all did). I told her and her friends we used to have that feeling all the time.

I first got interested in college sports when IU went to the Rose Bowl and Carl Yazstremski won the Triple Crown batting award and the Red Sox went to the World Series. Then, when I was a Senior in HS, it was Bob Knight's first year at IU. I was totally hooked. But IU football was my first love in sports. I love IU BB and revel in its success. But nothing gets me as passionate as IU FB, both positive and negative (and there's been a lot of negative).

I'm afraid it's been my generation that has screwed up the basketball program. We let political correctness take over and got away from the things that made our BB program special.
Yes, 1967 was a great year for being an IU and Red Sox fan. It never crossed my mind at 14 that we may never get to another Rose Bowl, although we came real close in 1987. One time I went to a baseball game in Fort Wayne and a woman had an IU cap and a Red Sox shirt. I thought I was in love.
 
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Big Red Crimson Buffalo

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Saying that fans in Indiana don't want to see basketball over IU football...? Crazy talk..That's like a zillion to one....And I support both with what little cash I make..
Relax...Those other three conference's are in for a mess..
They'll be multiple teams that play more or less games because of covid cancellations..
Wouldn't surprise me if it doesn't get shut down by Columbus Day
They won’t play basketball in what amounts to a giant petri dish.

The virus ain’t going away anytime soon. We can forget about both sports this cycle, regardless of which one you favor.

Even if they did play basketball with fans, the attendance would be so down with all the paranoia inside an enclosed space. Nobody cares that much to pack an arena.
 

Courtsensetwo

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If the southern teams play it destroys it. It destroys the conference. For several years we become the MAC. The bigs will obviously recover but this will destroy programs like ours. It’s takes forever to build as a non traditional and this’ll destroy all the work.
Come on man...
 
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Courtsensetwo

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They won’t play basketball in what amounts to a giant petri dish.

The virus ain’t going away anytime soon. We can forget about both sports this cycle, regardless of which one you favor.

Even if they did play basketball with fans, the attendance would be so down with all the paranoia inside an enclosed space. Nobody cares that much to pack an arena.
I still shake my head at the number of areas in the USA that don't take this seriously and this is ALL on them.

Wear a FORKING Mask and act as if you are a responsible citizen.
 
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Courtsensetwo

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Their decisions were based on the best available medical advice at the time. Hardly grounds for having their heads on a pike if things turn out differently than expected.
IMO the decision was made for liability reasons only.

I want to see someone make a case for the players being safer sent home than working in the controlled environment.

Oh, and regular students are apparently now expendable?
 
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DANC

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Yes, 1967 was a great year for being an IU and Red Sox fan. It never crossed my mind at 14 that we may never get to another Rose Bowl, although we came real close in 1987. One time I went to a baseball game in Fort Wayne and a woman had an IU cap and a Red Sox shirt. I thought I was in love.
I try to make it to Boston for a game at Fenway every other year or so. And when I lived in Indiana until last year, I always tried to make it to Chicago or Detroit to see them. I loved the inter-league games when they play in Cinci and at Wrigley. We've not been to the Rose Bowl since, but 2004 was sure a great year for the Sox.

I was 13 in '67 and just starting to figure out sports beyond high school. (I was actually a Yankees fan as a kid, but I thankfully outgrew that!).
 
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I try to make it to Boston for a game at Fenway every other year or so. And when I lived in Indiana until last year, I always tried to make it to Chicago or Detroit to see them. I loved the inter-league games when they play in Cinci and at Wrigley. We've not been to the Rose Bowl since, but 2004 was sure a great year for the Sox.

I was 13 in '67 and just starting to figure out sports beyond high school. (I was actually a Yankees fan as a kid, but I thankfully outgrew that!).
I went to Fenway in 1975 with a college buddy, in 1986 with my wife both in May and then in late September when the Sox clinched the pennant, and then back in 2001 for another game. I have seen the Sox play many more times in road games in Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Detroit, Cleveland, Milwaukee, Minnesota, Chicago White Sox, Kansas City, Texas, Arizona, Seattle, San Francisco and Oakland. It also gave a chance to see many other sites at the same time. The highlight was in September of 2004 when we got to both Oregon when we upset the Ducks, and the saw the Sox at Seattle the next game. A lot of good times.
 
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DANC

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I went to Fenway in 1975 with a college buddy, in 1986 with my wife both in May and then in late September when the Sox clinched the pennant, and then back in 2001 for another game. I have seen the Sox play many more times in road games in Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Detroit, Cleveland, Milwaukee, Minnesota, Chicago White Sox, Kansas City, Texas, Arizona, Seattle, San Francisco and Oakland. It also gave a chance to see many other sites at the same time. The highlight was in September of 2004 when we got to both Oregon when we upset the Ducks, and the saw the Sox at Seattle the next game. A lot of good times.
We are kindred spirits. I saw the Sox play the A's in Oakland when I was stationed in Monterey. El Tiante pitched a 2 hitter in one game! The A's had Reggie Jackson, Catfish Hunter, Blue Moon Odom. A powerhouse. Geting to see Yaz, Pudge, Remy, Petrocelli and all the guys play there was great. One of my favorite Sox memories. I've also seen them in Texas, Pittsburg, Baltimore, Chicago, Cleveland, Chicago, Detroit, Tampa Bay, Denver, and Boston. Basically I'll go wherever they're playing within a 5 or 6 hour drive. Now that we've moved to Charlotte, I'll be going to Atlanta, and Washington for some games.

My wife got me tickets on the Green Monster a few years ago for my birthday - that's was quite an experience.

Pretty awesome you saw the Hoosier win at Oregon!
 
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i'vegotwinners

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hard to think projections as to how many kids on the team get covid this fall if they play, as opposed to how many get it if they don't, aren't all that different.

thus hard to think this decision was just about the kids' health.

what all it was about we'll never know, because IU and other schools hate giving out info as much as the govt does.

as to 2021 recruiting, i could see QB being the position most impacted recruiting wise as only 1 QB can be the starter, and high level QB prospects probably look hard at what class those they see in front of them are currently in and what looks like will be their class yr to hopefully start, thus how many yrs they feel they have a good chance to be the starter before their eligibility runs out.

thus i think it will impact QB recruiting most, for the same reason non starting high ability QBs seem like the first to transfer.

no doubt 2021 QB recruits won't be thrilled to see current hi level starting QBs staying an extra yr.

McCulley just saw Penix and Tuttle and Williams being around 1 more yr than McCulley originally envisioned, as did all other 2021 QB recruits see their projected situations instantly change.

all other positions see the same, but other position players aren't limited to one position spot or mostly unshared playing time, to near the extent QBs are.
 
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skippy1813

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No students <> no football, no football <> no students

I understand why seasons are being canceled/delayed but I don’t understand how they don’t go hand in hand with students being on campus. It can’t be one or the other, IMO.
 
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We are kindred spirits. I saw the Sox play the A's in Oakland when I was stationed in Monterey. El Tiante pitched a 2 hitter in one game! The A's had Reggie Jackson, Catfish Hunter, Blue Moon Odom. A powerhouse. Geting to see Yaz, Pudge, Remy, Petrocelli and all the guys play there was great. One of my favorite Sox memories. I've also seen them in Texas, Pittsburg, Baltimore, Chicago, Cleveland, Chicago, Detroit, Tampa Bay, Denver, and Boston. Basically I'll go wherever they're playing within a 5 or 6 hour drive. Now that we've moved to Charlotte, I'll be going to Atlanta, and Washington for some games.

My wife got me tickets on the Green Monster a few years ago for my birthday - that's was quite an experience.

Pretty awesome you saw the Hoosier win at Oregon!
Yes, that was unexpected to have us win at Oregon. Very exciting game. I wish I would have planned years earlier to see IU in road games. I guess I never thought I could get tickets to a lot of places. I also went to Toronto to see the Sox play a few times and once went to London, Ontario to catch a minor league game against the New Britain Red Sox. I got a chance to meet Eric Wedge when he played catcher for New Britain and talked to him for a few minutes. He was from Fort Wayne. That's great you can still go to games and do those things. A terrible back condition has limited me now from doing much. I'm hopeful that surgery may help.
 
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DANC

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Yes, that was unexpected to have us win at Oregon. Very exciting game. I wish I would have planned years earlier to see IU in road games. I guess I never thought I could get tickets to a lot of places. I also went to Toronto to see the Sox play a few times and once went to London, Ontario to catch a minor league game against the New Britain Red Sox. I got a chance to meet Eric Wedge when he played catcher for New Britain and talked to him for a few minutes. He was from Fort Wayne. That's great you can still go to games and do those things. A terrible back condition has limited me now from doing much. I'm hopeful that surgery may help.
Yes, I'm very fortunate. Sorry to hear about your back. Hope surgery helps. I've never had back issues, thank God. I have enough health issues without having to deal with that.

Are you from the Fort? My good friends and football buddies are from there and we lived there a couple years in the 80s. Lots of great memories there.
 

BayernFan

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No students <> no football, no football <> no students

I understand why seasons are being canceled/delayed but I don’t understand how they don’t go hand in hand with students being on campus. It can’t be one or the other, IMO.
of course it can. The purpose of college is education, not football.
 
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Yes, I'm very fortunate. Sorry to hear about your back. Hope surgery helps. I've never had back issues, thank God. I have enough health issues without having to deal with that.

Are you from the Fort? My good friends and football buddies are from there and we lived there a couple years in the 80s. Lots of great memories there.
No, I've lived in Warsaw since 1976. I've often been to Fort Wayne for shopping and both hockey and baseball games. I knew about Wedge and he said he had played in Warsaw when he was in high school. He seemed like a nice guy and it's too bad injuries curtained his career. I was hoping he might have been hired as Sox manager.

You might want to catch the Sox game today. Former IU pitcher Kyle Hart is having his major league debut today. I have been following his career for years and have been rather frustrated with the Sox for not giving him a chance before now, especially with the way the starting pitching has been going this year.

Were you in Charlotte back in 2001? We went to the IU game at NC State that year and then spent a few days at the Outer Banks. I wondered if you were also at that game. We flew back two days before the terrorist attack. Having been on vacation for the past week I was scrambling anyway to catch up on work, and then it became twice as bad once the attack occurred and virtually everything stopped.
 

crossfire74

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Should IU then try to go to the SEC or Big12? I’m sure they won’t mind the automatic win they think IU would be on their schedules.
I don't think they should and further, it does look like IU may play some fall sports this year when all this shakes out.
 
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