I think the only holes in the logic are allowing people to not wear masks during indoor dining. Which means I don't think there should be any indoor dining.
The question about masks should be: does anybody have a better idea?
Holcomb mandates masks in Indiana
- Thread starter Fro
- Start date
I think the only holes in the logic are allowing people to not wear masks during indoor dining. Which means I don't think there should be any indoor dining.
The question about masks should be: does anybody have a better idea?
I knew you were joking because everybody knows that ICE is the right department to handle this kind of local dereliction of duty.
I don't think so if they leave voluntarily. Some states were allowing people into unemployment if they left a job because they were high risk. But I think that is going away.
Wouldn't be the first time. Let's hope COH weighs in. Then we'll know. He's never wrong.
That’s why I bring it up. A lot of people are saying, “why don’t they just go on unemployment like everyone else”. I don’t see this as an option.
I think the military term is, "cowardice in the face of the enemy". We don't care fight COVID because the GOP is scared to death of masks.
We have been running an education campaign on masks. How does an executive order on an education campaign do anything new?
Might as well get rid of the seatbelt law, DUI, all of. Every freaking law infringes on someone's rights.
Time to start lighting cigarettes up in bars, peoples homes, at work and blowing smoke into people's faces.
You don't like it, not my problem. You move and stop trying to stomp on my freedom to smoke!!
Just when I thought I was ready to join the vote for Holcomb crowd, the facts keep pulling me back in.
Good point. I do not get why people want, nay DEMAND, schools and businesses to open up 100% but fight masks harder than they would ISIS. It makes zero sense.
What the hell are people complaining about?
It's incredibly legally dubious an idea that a governor can make something illegal with criminal penalty via executive order. And the last thing police want to do is enforce such a thing.
The statewide mandate is in place. It will be easy enough now for businesses to blanket enforce it on their own.... outside of calling the damn police. Who everyone wants defunded anyway.
Some people have totally lost their minds. And shouldn't leave a padded room at this point
Then why isn't the state legislature quickly stepping in and acting along the lines of what the governor is doing?
I believe the governor can call them back into session.
If the legislature can only act for the first few months of the year, that likely drives home the point that they lack the ability to act in emergent situations and the governor needs to fill that gap.
I don't think there is anything stopping local govts from passing civil infractions/ fines. But an actual misdemeanor criminal charge is a bridge too far.
I posted the law the legislature passed allowing the governor to declare an emergency. He used it to shut the state down, how is this different? Are you saying he has the power to close all non-essential business but not require masks?
I know in Bloomington there are large gatherings of students. Forcing businesses into compliance does not impact that at all.
I know, I've had that discussion several times.
Friend: The lock down is complete BS! We need to open up!
Me: What if wearing a comfortable cloth mask, totally dependent on how you feel about them in regards to comfortability level, would allow us to open sooner. Less people get sick and we can get back to normal sooner than later. Win win right??
Friend: That's BS!!! The govt cant force a muzzle on me!! Everything is BS!!
That's typically where I pivot to 'okay, say everything is BS and fake. You are right that there's nothing to be worried about with Covid and I'm a dumb farm animal and an idiot bleeding heart for believing and taking basic precautions.
At the end of the day we are both fine and I might have some pictures that we might laugh about in ten years.
However what if I'm right, this is a serious health issue? At the end of the day I'm much more likely to be fine while you and those close to you will go through a ton of hell which might end up in death or you in an induced coma with a tube down your throat. Oh a big chunk of people will also die who we could have saved and kids will have lifelong health residuals.
Which worst case scenarios would you prefer?
This is all the stuff of basic problem-solving. But that's not we're about as a country.
While we play with a silly charade of arguing over constitutional limitation of powers, we willfully disregard the obvious: basically all Republicans and a meaningful portion of our electorate has decided to play ostrich on coronavirus.
Yeah I don't think anyone is saying lock people up.
Simple fines will do, unfortunately (meaning it's unfortunate that we have to fine people to get them to wear a mask. Too bad we just can't get consensus.)
I think we should default to encouraging HOAs to push mask requirements to stem the tide of this global pandemic. If they can do towels on balconies at condos, they can do endless disease and economic ruin.
The original EO was a misdemeanor criminal charge.... that's not the same as a civil fine.
I do find some irony in demands that police lower their overall enforcement activity while at the same time policing mask wearing.
I'm glad to see a statewide mandate, but criminal charging capability is not necessary.
Yeah, such bs. Maybe they’ll decriminalize drunk driving too, that ought to be my choice too!
Do we really need the police looking for more "crimes".
A white police officer attempts to ticket a black man for not wearing a mask. Nothing could go wrong here.
Wife and close friend. According to Fauci, he lowered it to hydrate.
(Sorry if the point was to get Hillz to do some research)
The problem is we are sticking mask enforcement on the near minimum wage retail or grocery employee. So they get verbally, or sometimes physically, assaulted. The interwebs are accumulating those stories. If someone has to do that it should be someone trained in enforcement.
Of course I see Wal Mart is backing away somewhat, they are not going to deny service to non mask weiners.
The question is WHY wasn't that info included in the article that accompanied the pic Hilz posted? And if it actually was, then why didn't Hilz mention it or at least link to the article?
An Indiana Republican state lawmaker posted a photo of a .45-caliber handgun on Thursday evening in response to Gov. Eric Holcomb's mask mandate announced a day earlier.
"Starting Monday, the governor wants to lock me in a cage for 180 days and fine me $1,000 if I don't wear a mask that has no published standards for effectiveness," Jim Lucas, who has served his southern district since 2012, wrote on Facebook. "What if I don't comply, Governor Eric Holcomb?"
The post of the handgun next to a pamphlet of the Constitution quickly drew attention, to which Lucas later updated to add: "For those that are blowing this out of proportion (again), this picture IS NOT a threat against anyone!"
https://www.yahoo.com/news/dont-comply-indiana-republican-lawmaker-165928594.html
Technically, what the Governor probably was planning on doing before they made the change wasn't creating a criminal offense via executive order, which, as you suspect, would almost certainly be invalid in Indiana. In Indiana, people can only be punished for committing statutory crimes created by the General Assembly.
Rather, the General Assembly has already made it a Class B Misdemeanor to knowingly violate the Emergency Management and Disaster Law, which is the legal basis for all of Holcomb's various declarations in response to the pandemic. So, most likely what happened was the Governor's legal advisors determined that violating an executive order issued under the authority of the EMDL would constitute a violation of the EMDL itself.
I do not have an opinion on whether or not that is true, but if it is true, then the fact that Holcomb dropped the language from the order doesn't change anything. Not wearing a mask starting on Monday either is or is not a misdemeanor under the EMDL, regardless of whether or not Holcomb says it is in the order.
Too bad the people at your wife's Y cannot keep social distancing, etc At my local rec center an excellent series of rules make the place safe and a great place to work out.
The Bloomington Y has rules, one even had to sign a document with the rules listed to get their card activated. I have not been back since the weekend before COVID, so I assume people just are not following the rules.
Since nationwide we see people trying to enforce the rules being threatened with guns, I get why some near minimum wage employees are not keen on risking their lives.
My gym has a good set of rules including an entering temp check.and wearing a mask except when working out. They do ask you to put your mask on if you go a good distance between stations, Some machines have been downstairs from the main lifting area, which is clear enough., but some areas closer to the lifting area or more a problem. I feel safe there
I noticed that Indy is closing bars for two or three weeks. I now live in Virginia which has taking measures similar to Indiana, and is now upticking like Indiana. A couple of places have been closed. New rules are coming out for my part of the state which, I assume, will attempt to deal w/ the problem of places serving booze. The uptick in Virginia shows how persistent the virus is, and is depressing. Read after posting that the Va uptick is largely in the under 40 age group. I liked to drink a few too many when was that age.
Edit Added last 2 sentences
Last edited:
It's alarming, frightening, and discouraging that a meaningful portion of our electorate is comprised of kooks, morons and cultists (regardless of ideological persuasion). What is that portion? 40%? 50%?
On top of that, though, is a further troubling reality (in my view). It's another large portion of our electorate that doesn't fit neatly in that kook/moron/cultist bucket. They're probably educated and gainfully employed and think they know stuff and are swinging the decisions that matter in harmful and ignorant ways. They're full of all the standard biases (e.g., recency bias, confirmation bias, etc.) They refuse to acknowledge any of that, though, and weigh in with their "serious" contributions when they have no expertise whatsoever. I think the most galling bias might be the "it needs to sound reasonable from my lazy-boy" bias. I think there's a fair amount of Dunning-Kruger going on with this group and maybe we all fall into it to some degree. But fundamental goals, principles and outcome achievement don't anchor their thought processes in any meaningful way. It's all so sloppy, undisciplined, and lazy. Worse, it's really harmful. It's playing out on the school issues, but it's true of pretty much everything. If the kook/moron/cultist group comprises 40%, I'm wondering if this more politically-palatable group comprises something like another 40%. That doesn't leave many folks capable of making decisions or able to get things done.
Positive sign: the order doesn't take effect until Monday, but I just got back from Kroger, where mask usage appeared to be 100%.
