I'm concerned about JS & DG both being back. He's massaged that situation for two full years, to no good effect.. If both are back in year 3 and we see a repeat of attitude problems with the team, is CAM back for a 4th?
Here's my issue with the Archie has us on an upward path argument ...
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I'm concerned about JS & DG both being back. He's massaged that situation for two full years, to no good effect.. If both are back in year 3 and we see a repeat of attitude problems with the team, is CAM back for a 4th?
Jones WAS Crean's guy, and he stunk, whatever he was rated. Unfortunately, Damezi might be the new Jones, less one really good game by Jones.
Davis should never have been hired beyond his interim appointment after the Myles Brand bungled handling and ultimate firing of RMK.
Sampson should never have been hired, but Adam Herbert demanded a particular skin color in the new coach.
Had either of the above scenarios been handled properly, Crean would never have been here. Crean was kept on too long because the McRobbie administration doesn't really care about sports success as long as the money is rolling in.
Nope, just stating a want. You dont have it in you to piss me off.
I've consistently said he should get 3 years and posted it numerous times (I think I did say I would trade him for Chris Beard, one time). I have said he isn't that good and isn't the guy (sometimes a littler harsher than that). I have also consistently said he should be fired, next year, if we miss the tourney. It's not unrealistic to expect an IU coach to make the tourney one time out of three years. Just because you want to lower the bar, doesn't mean the rest of us are going to. The difference between you and myself are the expectations for IU as a program.
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I had a turkey sandwich at Panera last week on Chris Bread. It was pretty good.
Hopefully you whispered sweet nothings in his ear and he is on his way to Bloomington.
I whisper sweet nothings into no mans ear, but he is a really good coach.
Since you asked (and this is research you could have easily done yourself if you REALLY wanted to know)...
Tom Crean - age 53: winning percentage of .593
Archie Miller - age 40: winning percentage of .649
Crean - 3 conference first place finishes in 19 seasons
Miller - 2 conference first place finishes in 8 seasons
Crean - history of boom or bust with each school where he has coached (has followed every 1st place conference finish with placing 8th or worse the following year)
Miller - IF he follows his pattern at Dayton, after second season, team improved conference position each year, including his last two seasons in first place.
Crean - mistakenly hired at IU after previous five seasons not finishing higher than fourth in conference
Miller - hired at IU after two consecutive first place finishes in conference
Crean - made it past Sweet 16 once in 19 seasons
Miller - made it past Sweet 16 once in 8 seasons (with a mid-major)
In other words, Crean has a proven record of ineptitude. Archie doesn't have much of a record of any kind, but if you take what he did at Dayton as his example - building it to consecutive first place finishes before getting hired at IU - it FAR surpasses what Crean did at either Marquette or IU. To state that Miller is worse than Crean shows significant ignorance.
I thought you were screwing around. If he did buy lunch, that's pretty cool.
Edit: Hopefully, you do get that turkey sandwich sometime with Chris Beard or Chris Bread.
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Pssst...your post that HC is referring to said "Chris Bread". Thus his Panera comment.
I think its more so that whenever Crean's seat started getting hot, he had a good season.
Plus if 2012-13 had been more of a repeat of the previous season (decent but not great), I don't think Crean survives the 2013-14 season. But it would have hurt IU's hiring prospects to fire a coach 1 season removed from spending most of the year as the #1 rated team.
Hey, "A man never stands as tall as when he kneels to help a child", I always say.
Tom Crean - age 53: winning percentage of .593
Archie Miller - age 40: winning percentage of .649
Crean - 3 conference first place finishes in 19 seasons
Miller - 2 conference first place finishes in 8 seasons
I am not a Crean fan but that is pretty misleading. Crean which coaching in power conferences and Archie was not.
Archie Miller - age 40: winning percentage of .649
Crean - 3 conference first place finishes in 19 seasons
Miller - 2 conference first place finishes in 8 seasons
I am not a Crean fan but that is pretty misleading. Crean which coaching in power conferences and Archie was not.
So Crean is more accomplished? And he’s coached most of his career in a power conference?
Archie will soon be back to the mid major ranks where maybe he can succeed. He’s obviously in over his head in the big leagues.
It's taken me a little while to get comfortable with the idea that Archie is likely still learning on the job. Ask the best coaches in the game and I'd assume most of them would tell you that they're a better coach now than they were at 40.
I'm sure there will be some IU fans who would say "IU is no place to learn on the job", they're what we call losers.
Archie obviously has the ability to sustain success, he's done it already. He doesn't appear to be overly stubborn or unwilling to learn and the integrity with which he's handled the last two seasons has gone largely unlauded.
I have faith he'll get us in the tournament next year, and we wont be sitting home in March for a long time after that. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm not gonna sit here and stew in anger over this past season, it's no fun and unproductive.
I'm a pessimist in most aspects of life but IUBB seems to be one of the only areas where I suspend that pessimism in favor of hope. I would think most on this board are the same otherwise why come back here and post other than to use online strangers as a sounding board for your venting?
I'm sure there will be some IU fans who would say "IU is no place to learn on the job", they're what we call losers.
Archie obviously has the ability to sustain success, he's done it already. He doesn't appear to be overly stubborn or unwilling to learn and the integrity with which he's handled the last two seasons has gone largely unlauded.
I have faith he'll get us in the tournament next year, and we wont be sitting home in March for a long time after that. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm not gonna sit here and stew in anger over this past season, it's no fun and unproductive.
I'm a pessimist in most aspects of life but IUBB seems to be one of the only areas where I suspend that pessimism in favor of hope. I would think most on this board are the same otherwise why come back here and post other than to use online strangers as a sounding board for your venting?
You coach with the players you have against the competition in your league. If you're not in a P5 conference, your roster isn't made of P5 players. And if it is, that shows better recruiting success. It's not like Archie was playing with UK's roster in the A10. If anything, not being in a P5 conference makes Archies E8 appearance even more impressive, no? Winning percentage is winning percentage - and it's against teams that are of your same level no matter what league you are in.
Nothing misleading about it. It's not like P5 schools don't also schedule Stoney Brook...
Finally, someone made this very obvious, yet important, point. Thank you.
Millers E8 is an outlier just as Creans and Mike Davis F4’s are outliers. Take away those singular achievements from any of them and their resumes aren’t so special.
Watford is running out of options three players from LSU declared
(point guard included) maybe to avoid some Will Wade improper
recruitment issues.
The new coach at Alabama Nate Oats is trying to sweeten the deal
by hiring Watford's current high school coach.
Memphis is loaded at Watford's position of course he can go there
if he desires.
Last but certainly not least, if he has a Will Wade taint he
can avoid all by just signing with Duke.
There was some indication that Watford might officially visit IU this WE....have not heard whether it will happen.
Other than victimbear, who wanted him to come to IU, I think we all want to avoid Will Wade's taint.
I'm a Purdue fan, so take my opinion for what it's worth, but you guys didn't hire Archie because of that one E8 run. That happened four years before he got hired. You hired him because he kept getting better in the A10 every single year. They won 10 conference games the E8 year. The next year, 13. Then 14. Then 15.
That's the sign of a guy who can build on and sustain success. The NCAA Tournament is a crapshoot.
I respect Archie in the way that I didn't respect Crean. Crean's teams' weaknesses were 100% on him--lack of attention to defense and too many turnovers. As long as Crean was your coach, we knew we could count on being able to exploit those weaknesses. I'm pretty sure we aren't going to be able to count on Archie not having any true shooters on the roster for the remainder of his time at Indiana.
Archie has been a HC 8 years.
He’s only made the tournament 4 times.
2 of those times he lost first round. Another time in the 2nd round.
So he’s made it to the Sweet 16 once and that was the Elite 8 year.
There are at least 100 coaches out there with better resumes than that.
He’s only made the tournament 4 times.
2 of those times he lost first round. Another time in the 2nd round.
So he’s made it to the Sweet 16 once and that was the Elite 8 year.
There are at least 100 coaches out there with better resumes than that.
No there aren't...name them, and their ages.
We all know he can’t. He’s the biggest lying POS on this board.
Did you complain this much in the 13 years between McCracken's championships? How about the 23 years after his last one and Knight's first? Or all the years before 1940?
You completely lost your argument when you said none of the players developed. If you didn't see development, you are the worst scout in history.... I'll give you an argument that some of the players who transferred didn't develop a lot, but skills development mostly happens in the offseason during individual drills and when the players have time to work on their games rather than just class, playing, and team practice/limited weight training (as they have to play games, travel, and at IU have to worry about class times). Or did you not realize coaches don't do much one on one work during the season due to practice time being heavily limited due to travel, class, games, and NCAA rules (yes, types and amounts of practice, including conditioning, are very limited by rule). As far as team development, when you don't have enough healthy players to play 5 on 5 in practice with guys who should actually contribute, it makes it difficult to develop team play (like knowing each other's timing, learning tendencies, knowing how to play defense together, learning offensive plays, etc). The bottom line is: players did improve as the season went along, we improved in record despite losing 5 scholorship players to graduation, we were in the last 4 out one game away from the big dance, we started 2 freshmen and a sophomore most of the season, Green shouldn't and isn't going anywhere, we were a top 25 defense, and we depended on a freshman PG. We are, currently, bringing in a 5* center and a 4* SG with more to come. If you aren't optimistic about the future of the program, it is because you don't want to be.
Knight went to the Final Four in his 2nd year and won a title in his 5th. Why would I complain about that?
And I wasn’t alive in 1940 so I wouldn’t know.
Archie is more of a lesser Mike Davis than another RMK.
Losing 8 or 9 players and only 2 scholarship commits/1 walk-on doesnt look to help w the 5 on 5 team development...
I find it concerning that only 2 graduating HS seniors have committed to play for Archie on scholarship.
More of this hyperbole of OMG we are losing 8 players, Woe is IU.
Would you be less concerned if Archie employ the Crean model and went out and signed the next April or Priller?
I am sure he has a plan and is trying to build a TEAM. Let's see how this plays out before we pull the fire alarm.
