Harris and Warren back slavery reparations
- Thread starter twenty02
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It's always fascinating when someone doesn't even want to have a conversation about something. In my experience, it's usually because someone already knows they are uncomfortable with where the conversation will lead.
Regardless of how you frame it or what “it” is, you’re still advocating payment for sins that are 150 years old. That’s a non starter to pretty much everyone.
And when I say sins, I mean slavery. I think even less of the idea of reparations for anything less than literal slavery. Because if we’re talking institutional discrimination, there are a lot of groups that could put in a claim. Native Americans, Jews, Asians, Muslims, Anabaptist’s, and that’s just off the top of my head. It’s simply unfeasible.
It's absolutely not true that "payment for sins that are 150 years old" is a "non starter." It's actually a central part of our national mythos:
The Almighty has His own purposes. "Woe unto the world because of offenses; for it must needs be that offenses come, but woe to that man by whom the offense cometh." If we shall suppose that American slavery is one of those offenses which, in the providence of God, must needs come, but which, having continued through His appointed time, He now wills to remove, and that He gives to both North and South this terrible war as the woe due to those by whom the offense came, shall we discern therein any departure from those divine attributes which the believers in a living God always ascribe to Him? Fondly do we hope, fervently do we pray, that this mighty scourge of war may speedily pass away. Yet, if God wills that it continue until all the wealth piled by the bondsman's two hundred and fifty years of unrequited toil shall be sunk, and until every drop of blood drawn with the lash shall be paid by another drawn with the sword, as was said three thousand years ago, so still it must be said "the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether."
The only question is what form those payments come in.
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Lincoln was referring to the duration of the war, not reparations 150 years in the future.
But kudos to you for at least putting forth an argument.
But he was also referring to the need to atone for sins committed by previous generations. The nation wasn't just paying for the slavery that existed then. It was paying for the hundreds of years of slavery that preceded it.
The systemic exclusion of blacks from the housing market -- and the resultant lack of wealth building -- lasted into the 60s.
Your grandparents and parents were. You, due in part to their resultant prosperity, are now prosperous yourself. [assumes they were homeowners, with all the subsidies and advantages that entails]
Either that or you pulled yourself up by your own bootstraps all Horatio Alger-like, and everyone else should be able to do the same.
^^^^What will drive Democrats in the near term. And not just on this topic.
To answer your question, it has lots to do with your mindset and with the continuing dire impact on African-Americans because of three centuries of purposeful cruel treatment.
Anyone surprised by the fact that the poster closing in on 50k board comments in a little over 8 years finds it fascinating when people don't want to have a conversation? Does a topic exist on which you WON'T opine? And if there is a list (assuming it likely could fit on a gum wrapper) of said topics, please let me know so I can start THAT thread.
TIA~
It seems that some here think the idea of pulling “yourself up by your own bootstraps” is funny and/or impossible. I was poor and now I’m not, and haven’t been for decades now. It sure as hell wasn't because of my parents’ prosperity (read mother’s since the father was out of the picture). She owned the single wide (not even sure about that), but she never owned a house to the day she died. My question is why you find it funny and/or impossible for me and many, many others to do what you apparently think is funny and/or impossible to do?
My comment was aimed at JDB.
I do find it funny that people think everyone should be able to do what you did, and therefore there should be no reason to address past systemic discriminatory practices that blocked large groups from building wealth.
And just so you know, I'm the opposite of you. I came from a privileged background, and blew every advantage and opportunity that was afforded to me. I own that. What I've tried to discuss would have absolutely no benefit to me or anyone else in my family.
Nobody is saying it's impossible, they're saying that it's not a sustainable solution for getting out of poverty. I can point to plenty of people who leave Vegas with big gambling wins, does that mean everybody should be able to do that? I have huge respect for people who start in bad situations and drag themselves out of those situations, but it's also entirely disingenuous to act like that involves no luck.
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It’s not like gambling. We have a great deal to do with it and it’s not just luck. Far from it.
AH was given an opportunity by the military and he made the best of it. Not everyone is in that position.
I took advantage of the opportunity. Lots of people have the opportunity and don’t take it. For the military, not everyone qualifies physically, healhwise, etc., but it’s an opportunity for many that do qualify. In my case, I was doing OK in the civilian world before I decided to serve in the military. I’m confident I would have done well, but I’m also very satisfied that I took the route I took.
Please show me where in my post I said it was just luck or even mostly luck. I didn’t. I said that I have a great deal of respect for the people who put in the effort and are rewarded. There are also plenty of people who put in the same effort and don’t have the same success and I’d like to see you admit that there was any luck or any built-in advantage that helped you get where you are. I’m happy to admit there was in my life, I’ve worked my ass of to get where I am but that’s not the only factor.
People who have had good fortune tend to see the reasons as being internal, while those who have had poor fortune look for external causes. Human nature and all that. Successful people are luckier than they wish to admit, and the unsuccessful don't want to look at their contributions to their lowly station.
What's your definition of luck? What do you think are built-in advantages that I had or that you had? I believe there are odds and I do play them. They don't always work out. Is that bad luck, good luck, or just the way it is? Of course I know not everyone gets the same outcome for the same action. I'm not sure what to attribute that to, but to be perfectly honest, I'm just not a big believer in luck one way or the other. When things don't work out, I don't attribute it to bad luck, it's just what happens in life and it's time to move on.
I always thought Lincoln was referring to paying for the sins of slavery with the blood sacrifice of the war - and a lot of blood was sacrificed.
I'll throw one out just as an example -- you had good parenting. Not everyone does.
My mother did the best she could. Glad you didn't talk bad about my mother, I'd have to hurt you! At least, back in the day, I would have.
You've talked about your mother in previous discussions. I would have no reason to talk poorly of her. As I've contended, you got lucky, and you took advantage of it.My mother did the best she could. Glad you didn't talk bad about my mother, I'd have to hurt you! At least, back in the day, I would have.
Or was I unlucky that my father left before I was 7? Or was I unlucky that no one in my family had gone to college at that point? Or was I lucky or unlucky about any number of things? I guess early in my life I really decided that I wasn't going to rely on or believe in luck.
Actually, it's exactly these ideas that will drive the Democrats into four more years of Trump. The concept is overwhelmingly a losing battle because it isn't logical or fair. Just ask Conyers.
Only 6% of white Americans support cash payments to the descendants of slaves, compared to 59% of black Americans. Similarly, only 19% of whites - and 63% of blacks - support special education and job training programs for the descendants of slaves.
Republicans are absolutely terrified of AOC. It’s pretty funny to watch them lose it when it comes to her.
Terrified? I see it differently. They want her front and center, not because they are afraid of her, but because her positions are mostly ludicrous. She is not a serious person.
But we all know a serious person can now become president. And she has plenty of time to learn.
I sincerely encourage the Democrats to run down AOC's road. Please.
Terrified? She’s the gift that keeps on giving. I swear sometimes she’s a Republican plant. She speaks like Alicia Silverstones character in Clueless.
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