Grand jury votes to indict Trump

[Aloha Hoosier]

The other poster was saying statue of limitations paused when someone is out of state. Not sure how your response is relevant since that would mean statue of limitations hasn't expired due to that. Unless it hasn't expired due to both being upgraded to a felony and being out of state.

Anyway, I would assume NY put in the out of state not counting towards SOL because they wanted to deter running away as a strategy.

I am guessing some wouldn't have an issue with that other than due to who the defendant is in this case.

Like I said, i don't believe that is correct, and it's not relevant to this case per the dozens of legal scholars, including former DAs and Attorneys General, that have been discussing this on SiriusXM POTUS channel that I listen to most of the day while working. Per them, SOL could be paused during Presidential time, but that was the only exception discussed (though that doesn't mean no other exceptions might exist for certain crimes). It really makes little to no sense that SOLs would be paused when anyone is out of the state. Maybe some state does that, but without looking, I'm doubting that. Seems like something we'd have all heard of in dozens of high-profile cases over the years and I know I never have. Anyway, the consensus is that the misdemeanor SOL has expired (and it would be ridiculous to spend all this money and time on a misdemeanor case) so the falsification of records must be related to another crime, or several crimes, to elevate that to felonies for which the SOL has not expired.

This isn't going to be a misdemeanor case. It will be a felony case. A misdemeanor case would be a total joke.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Like I said, i don't believe that is correct, and it's not relevant to this case per the dozens of legal scholars, including former DAs and Attorneys General, that have been discussing this on SiriusXM POTUS channel that I listen to most of the day while working. Per them, SOL could be paused during Presidential time, but that was the only exception discussed (though that doesn't mean no other exceptions might exist for certain crimes). It really makes little to no sense that SOLs would be paused when anyone is out of the state. Maybe some state does that, but without looking, I'm doubting that. Seems like something we'd have all heard of in dozens of high-profile cases over the years and I know I never have. Anyway, the consensus is that the misdemeanor SOL has expired (and it would be ridiculous to spend all this money and time on a misdemeanor case) so the falsification of records must be related to another crime, or several crimes, to elevate that to felonies for which the SOL has not expired.

This isn't going to be a misdemeanor case. It will be a felony case. A misdemeanor case would be a total joke.

I’m not taking the time to look it up but I’m sure ny has some tolling provision for being out of state. More importantly the prosecutor can’t be so stupid as to not have already vetted the sol issue and know he’s in the clear.

 

[Stuffshot]

Everything is attempted to be reduced to one simple thing. It doesn’t work that way. Tolling is tethered to the class of crimes as is the sol. Some will toll. Some won’t. Some involve murder, or child sex, and may never have a sol. Etc.

@Aloha Hoosier if those are the charges I suspect they have a provision to bring them as a felony. Whatever is the lowest. E or whatever. Not something you go to jail over tho with no priors

Two more possible variables I ran across yesterday:

A couple years ago, Gov. Cuomo issued an executive order purporting to toll the SOL for many cases due to Covid. Apparently, this order was in place for 6-7 months. Some think this may toll the SOL in Trump's case by 6-7 months.

And Mueller (remember him?) opined that it was doubtful that charges could be brought against a sitting President while in office. Some think this applies to the states by operation of the Civil War Amendments and may toll all state SOLs for Trump's charges by the four-year length of his term.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

I’m not taking the time to look it up but I’m sure ny has some tolling provision for being out of state. More importantly the prosecutor can’t be so stupid as to not have already vetted the sol issue and know he’s in the clear.

There may be, I've never heard of tolling which seems very strange considering how much we all pay attention to various high-profile cases. However, the legal pundits say that the SOL is expired for misdemeanor falsification of records (I believe they said that was two years, but I might be misremembering) and they speculate that falsification of records is being tied to an additional crime, or crimes to make that a felon. The DA's not going to bring a misdemeanor case. That would be an actual joke.

 

[IU_Hickory]

Like I said, i don't believe that is correct, and it's not relevant to this case per the dozens of legal scholars, including former DAs and Attorneys General, that have been discussing this on SiriusXM POTUS channel that I listen to most of the day while working. Per them, SOL could be paused during Presidential time, but that was the only exception discussed (though that doesn't mean no other exceptions might exist for certain crimes). It really makes little to no sense that SOLs would be paused when anyone is out of the state. Maybe some state does that, but without looking, I'm doubting that. Seems like something we'd have all heard of in dozens of high-profile cases over the years and I know I never have. Anyway, the consensus is that the misdemeanor SOL has expired (and it would be ridiculous to spend all this money and time on a misdemeanor case) so the falsification of records must be related to another crime, or several crimes, to elevate that to felonies for which the SOL has not expired.

This isn't going to be a misdemeanor case. It will be a felony case. A misdemeanor case would be a total joke.

I agree there would likely be a felony on at least 1 of the charges if not more than 1.

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

No idea. Just passing on what I have heard. Not sure what the Feds would have to say about it. They're state charges of violations of state law brought by a state prosecutor in a state court.

Far be it from me to defend criminals, but it just seems odd that you could commit a crime and be charged decades later, in theory, because you don’t live or spend time in that state.

Maybe most states are like this and I have no clue what I’m talking about.

 

[UncleMark]

I’m not taking the time to look it up but I’m sure ny has some tolling provision for being out of state. More importantly the prosecutor can’t be so stupid as to not have already vetted the sol issue and know he’s in the clear.

There may be, I've never heard of tolling which seems very strange considering how much we all pay attention to various high-profile cases. However, the legal pundits say that the SOL is expired for misdemeanor falsification of records (I believe they said that was two years, but I might be misremembering) and they speculate that falsification of records is being tied to an additional crime, or crimes to make that a felon. The DA's not going to bring a misdemeanor case. That would be an actual joke.

If the SoL is expired, then they'll throw out the case today. Any bets?

 

[UncleMark]

I agree there would likely be a felony on at least 1 of the charges if not more than 1.

It's been reported that all the cases charged are felonies.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Two more possible variables I ran across yesterday:

A couple years ago, Gov. Cuomo issued an executive order purporting to toll the SOL for many cases due to Covid. Apparently, this order was in place for 6-7 months. Some think this may toll the SOL in Trump's case by 6-7 states.

And Mueller (remember him?) opined that it was doubtful that charges could be brought against a sitting President while in office. Some think this applies to the states by operation of the Civil War Amendments and may toll all state SOLs for Trump's charges by the four-year length of his term.

There’s no point. There’s a statute that will be on point. Just look that up

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

If the SoL is expired, then they'll throw out the case today. Any bets?

Like I said, the SOL hasn't expired for felony charges that are being speculated about. Besides, the DA isn't dumb enough to bring charges if the SOL was expired. That's not going to be a thing.

 

[mcmurtry66]

There may be, I've never heard of tolling which seems very strange considering how much we all pay attention to various high-profile cases. However, the legal pundits say that the SOL is expired for misdemeanor falsification of records (I believe they said that was two years, but I might be misremembering) and they speculate that falsification of records is being tied to an additional crime, or crimes to make that a felon. The DA's not going to bring a misdemeanor case. That would be an actual joke.

It’ll be a felony. Tolling is very common in my old world of med mal. Minors. Delayed discovery etc.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

There may be, I've never heard of tolling which seems very strange considering how much we all pay attention to various high-profile cases. However, the legal pundits say that the SOL is expired for misdemeanor falsification of records (I believe they said that was two years, but I might be misremembering) and they speculate that falsification of records is being tied to an additional crime, or crimes to make that a felon. The DA's not going to bring a misdemeanor case. That would be an actual joke.

Just heard that it was two-year SOL for the misdemeanor falsification of records charges and that's expired. The felony versions have a five-year SOL and that won't expire for a few weeks.

 

[UncleMark]

Just heard that it was two-year SOL for the misdemeanor falsification of records charges and that's expired. The felony versions have a five-year SOL and that won't expire for a few weeks.

Then there must be some tolling involved, since the crimes occurred more than five years ago.

 

[outside shooter]

It's been reported that all the cases charged are felonies.

Seems like there are charges for every payment to Cohen. He spread it out over something like 11 separate checks, hoping to hide what they were for. Good times.

 

[mcmurtry66]

So falsifying biz records is a misd. To bump it to a felony you have to show intent to commit or conceal a second crime. The second crime violating election law. I don’t think hush money is illegal. Hell what are settlements. Hush is just a spooky word. But all settlements are hush money. That’s not illegal. So the argument must be that the “hush” money was an improper campaign donation. Lowest level felony.

Bam bitches. That’s my prediction on what we know

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

So falsifying biz records is a misd. To bump it to a felony you have to show intent to commit or conceal a second crime. The second crime violating election law. I don’t think hush money is illegal. Hell what are settlements. Hush is just a spooky word. But all settlements are hush money. That’s not illegal. So the argument must be that the “hush” money was an improper campaign donation

Bam bitches. That’s my prediction on what we know

That's exactly what some of the legal experts speculate. Not all of them, although all of them say that it's not going to be a misdemeanor case because it would be a total joke.

 

[mcmurtry66]

That's exactly what some of the legal experts speculate. Not all of them, although all of them say that it's not going to be a misdemeanor case because it would be a total joke.

Well I’m far from a legal expert but that’s what makes the most sense if we are just guessing. On a funny note, and in an area where I am an expert, I was reading about some payments Vince McMahon made to trump’s foundation as well as hush payments Vince has made lol. Those two are certainly cut from the same cloth, dads and bankruptcies and and kids in the biz and all, although Vince is an incredible business man. What he did to gobble up regional wrestling companies is amazing. People don’t realize the promotions he did prior to same. How about evil knievel and snake River. Spend time with that

 

[Stuffshot]

Far be it from me to defend criminals, but it just seems odd that you could commit a crime and be charged decades later, in theory, because you don’t live or spend time in that state.

Maybe most states are like this and I have no clue what I’m talking about.

There are lots of old crimes brought against fugitives who disappeared for decades and changed identities. But maybe you're right.

 

[outside shooter]

I don't think the payments are in any way considered an "improper campaign donation" but instead they were improperly categorized as a campaign expense. Hence the tryst was paid for with campaign donations, and (separately) perhaps the payments to Cohen were then used improperly as a tax deduction for business expenses.

 

[UncleMark]

I don't think the payments are in any way considered an "improper campaign donation" but instead they were improperly categorized as a campaign expense. Hence the tryst was paid for with campaign donations, and (separately) perhaps the payments to Cohen were then used improperly as a tax deduction for business expenses.

They were posted as legal expenses.

 

[mcmurtry66]

I don't think the payments are in any way considered an "improper campaign donation" but instead they were improperly categorized as a campaign expense. Hence the tryst was paid for with campaign donations, and (separately) perhaps the payments to Cohen were then used improperly as a tax deduction for business expenses.

Cohen paid the money

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

If the SoL is expired, then they'll throw out the case today. Any bets?

I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night, which got me to trying to tie wild concepts to this, much like Bragg has done.

Thinking in the same vane as items discovered without a search warrant or outside of a SW limits, those items will be dismissed. SO, if bragg is using a case that is well beyond the SOL, couldn't anything discovered using that case be dismissed since the base case was actually "not a crime" any longer? Fruit of a poisoned tree?
Again obviously IANAL, but I have spent 54 yrs working outside the envelope.

 

[Baller23Boogie]

I'm gonna have to stay at a holiday Inn to understand all this legal shit.

 

[mcmurtry66]

I'm gonna have to stay at a holiday Inn to understand all this legal shit.

Simple:
1) the case won’t be time barred
2) it’ll be the lowest felony

He won’t go to jail.

My prediction

 

[Baller23Boogie]

Simple:
1) the case won’t be time barred
2) it’ll be the lowest felony

He won’t go to jail.

My prediction

You're hired

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

I'm gonna have to stay at a holiday Inn to understand all this legal shit.

Simple;

1) It will drag out for years ending in a hung jury
2) bragg will be hillaried.

My Prediction.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

Simple:
1) the case won’t be time barred
2) it’ll be the lowest felony

He won’t go to jail.

My prediction

I predict he won't be convicted. Not because I don't think he committed crimes, I think he probably did, but because that seems to be the consensus predictions of the legal scholars I've been listening to. It's not unanimous though. If he is convicted of some felonies and goes on to win the Republican Presidential nomination that will be an historical embarrassment for the Republican party. He won't win the general. No way will a majority of Americans vote for a felon in very many states. Definitely not in blue or purple states and even some red states won't do it. It could be a landslide for the Democrat along the lines of Nixon's or Reagan's Presidential victories.

 

[mcmurtry66]

I predict he won't be convicted. Not because I don't think he committed crimes, I think he probably did, but because that seems to be the consensus predictions of the legal scholars I've been listening to. It's not unanimous though. If he is convicted of some felonies and goes on to win the Republican Presidential nomination that will be an historical embarrassment for the Republican party. He won't win the general. No way will a majority of Americans vote for a felon in very many states. Definitely not in blue or purple states and even some red states won't do it. It could be a landslide for the Democrat along the lines of Nixon's or Reagan's Presidential victories.

He’s the cancer that keeps on metastasizing. He won’t go to jail for this. I looked up the ga stuff a while back and it didn’t seem like something you could go to jail for. I could be wrong. And the classified doc stuff I have no idea. Anyway I suspect he could push all this long enough to get the nomination and be destroyed in the general. Lots of dumb Americans

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

He’s the cancer that keeps on metastasizing. He won’t go to jail for this. I looked up the ga stuff a while back and it didn’t seem like something you could go to jail for. I could be wrong. And the classified doc stuff I have no idea. Anyway I suspect he could push all this long enough to get the nomination and be destroyed in the general. Lots of dumb Americans

He won't get hit with mishandling classified documents/information though I believe he's pretty obviously guilty of that. That ship has sailed with HRC's case (also guilty of the gross negligence standard, but Comey wouldn't recommend charges), and nothing will happen to Biden or Pence either. It's no defense, but frickin' elected and appointed civilians can't be trusted with handling classified information and that needs to be fixed ASAP. However, he could be hit with obstruction on that case, and it looks pretty solid that he obstructed based on all that is currently known. Georgia is pretty clearly an attempt to change the results of an election since it's well established that there was no fraud that could have changed the election and Trump wasn't even citing any specific fraud to justify changing results. I don't know what the crime is specifically, or if it's a felony or misdemeanor, but he looks pretty darn guilty on the face of it.

Trump and Trumpsters are likely going to be guaranteeing the election to whomever the Democrats nominate. It will be a guarantee if Trump is nominated. He and they are the gift that keeps on giving for the Democrats.

 

[mcmurtry66]

He won't get hit with mishandling classified documents/information. That ship has sailed with HRC's case, and nothing will happen to Biden or Pence either. It's no defense, but frickin' elected and appointed civilians can't be trusted with handling classified information and that needs to be fixed ASAP. However, he could be hit with obstruction on that case, and it looks pretty solid that he obstructed based on all that is currently known. Georgia is pretty clearly an attempt to change the results of an election since it's well established that there was no fraud that could have changed the election and Trump wasn't even citing any specific fraud to justify changing results. I don't know what the crime is specifically, or if it's a felony or misdemeanor, but he looks pretty darn guilty on the face of it.

Trump and Trumpsters are likely going to be guaranteeing the election to whomever the Democrats nominate. It will be a guarantee if Trump is nominated. He and they are the gift that keeps on giving for the Democrats.

The only positive is watching him get destroyed in a general will likely be the end of the Herschel Walker Oz types running. Just way too much losing

 

[Stuffshot]

I predict he won't be convicted. Not because I don't think he committed crimes, I think he probably did, but because that seems to be the consensus predictions of the legal scholars I've been listening to. It's not unanimous though. If he is convicted of some felonies and goes on to win the Republican Presidential nomination that will be an historical embarrassment for the Republican party. He won't win the general. No way will a majority of Americans vote for a felon in very many states. Definitely not in blue or purple states and even some red states won't do it. It could be a landslide for the Democrat along the lines of Nixon's or Reagan's Presidential victories.

Yes. None of today's stuff in NY does anything to persuade those who voted against Trump in 2020 that they were wrong.

Even if Trump gets off with a hung jury or whatever, the already-strong opposition to Trump is likely to be enhanced.

 

[DANC]

No idea. Just passing on what I have heard. Not sure what the Feds would have to say about it. They're state charges of violations of state law brought by a state prosecutor in a state court.

Trump was a NY citizen when he was President. He was a citizen at the time of the alleged 'crime'.

'Stopping the clock' is a stupid argument.

 

[DANC]

Like I said, i don't believe that is correct, and it's not relevant to this case per the dozens of legal scholars, including former DAs and Attorneys General, that have been discussing this on SiriusXM POTUS channel that I listen to most of the day while working. Per them, SOL could be paused during Presidential time, but that was the only exception discussed (though that doesn't mean no other exceptions might exist for certain crimes). It really makes little to no sense that SOLs would be paused when anyone is out of the state. Maybe some state does that, but without looking, I'm doubting that. Seems like something we'd have all heard of in dozens of high-profile cases over the years and I know I never have. Anyway, the consensus is that the misdemeanor SOL has expired (and it would be ridiculous to spend all this money and time on a misdemeanor case) so the falsification of records must be related to another crime, or several crimes, to elevate that to felonies for which the SOL has not expired.

This isn't going to be a misdemeanor case. It will be a felony case. A misdemeanor case would be a total joke.

The supposed felony is not a state charge.

This entire thing is a shit-show and, if there is a trial, will be nothing more than a Soviet-style show trial.

 

[DANC]

It's been reported that all the cases charged are felonies.

Wait - didn't your savior say there is no way anyone knows the charges until he's actually charged?

 

[DANC]

I’m not taking the time to look it up but I’m sure ny has some tolling provision for being out of state. More importantly the prosecutor can’t be so stupid as to not have already vetted the sol issue and know he’s in the clear.

I wouldn't be so certain about that last sentence.

 

[mcmurtry66]

I wouldn't be so certain about that last sentence.

DANC please report to the Roll Call thread. Now. Thank you

 

[DANC]

If the SoL is expired, then they'll throw out the case today. Any bets?

In New York? Are you kidding?

 

[DANC]

He won't get hit with mishandling classified documents/information though I believe he's pretty obviously guilty of that. That ship has sailed with HRC's case (also guilty of the gross negligence standard, but Comey wouldn't recommend charges), and nothing will happen to Biden or Pence either. It's no defense, but frickin' elected and appointed civilians can't be trusted with handling classified information and that needs to be fixed ASAP. However, he could be hit with obstruction on that case, and it looks pretty solid that he obstructed based on all that is currently known. Georgia is pretty clearly an attempt to change the results of an election since it's well established that there was no fraud that could have changed the election and Trump wasn't even citing any specific fraud to justify changing results. I don't know what the crime is specifically, or if it's a felony or misdemeanor, but he looks pretty darn guilty on the face of it.

Trump and Trumpsters are likely going to be guaranteeing the election to whomever the Democrats nominate. It will be a guarantee if Trump is nominated. He and they are the gift that keeps on giving for the Democrats.

If American elects a Biden over Trump, then we deserve everything that happens to us.

 

[DANC]

The only positive is watching him get destroyed in a general will likely be the end of the Herschel Walker Oz types running. Just way too much losing

I thought you hated living in a woke world?

 

[anon_6hv78pr714xta]

I'm gonna have to stay at a holiday Inn to understand all this legal shit.

Don't worry. CoH will be back soon to explain it all to you in Law 102, assuming you're enrolled.