Grand jury votes to indict Trump

[76-1]

Of course. The silliness of the potential charges opens the door for Desantis and others. A twenty million dollar defalcation not so much

I can't wait until the Republicans come back into power... Who goes to jail first? Hillary? (Personally I'd prefer they fine her the amount that she cost the country in fake investigations during Trumps Presidency). There's too many more to list... Good Times... We'll make the Pakistanis look like amateurs...

 

[mcmurtry66]

I can't wait until the Republicans come back into power... Who goes to jail first? Hillary? (Personally I'd prefer they fine her the amount that she cost the country in fake investigations during Trumps Presidency). There's too many more to list... Good Times... We'll make the Pakistanis look like amateurs...

Depends on the charges imo. Premature to opine at this point. I liked manchin’s line that no one should be above the law nor should they be targeted by the law. I trust tomorrow we’ll find out what’s happening here. Regardless hopefully the prosecutor has his ducks in a row. The worst thing that could happen is a weak case trump beats and we all have to endure his 2024 Gloat Tour

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

No one knows what the sealed indictment says, and no one knows what evidence Alvin Bragg has to support whatever the charges may be. So everyone making wild claims is full of shit.

Like everyone, I don’t know what the indictment says or what evidence supports the charges. But I stopped by to attack one particular argument being made by both serious and unserious people alike: the tawdry facts of the Stormy Daniels hush money payments are too trivial to warrant prosecution of Trump.

In particular, we don’t have to wonder what would happen to someone not named Donald Trump on these facts, because we already know what actually did happen to Michael Cohen on these facts.

Trump’s DOJ prosecuted Cohen for the Stormy Daniels hush money payments, and as a result Cohen was sentenced to three years in prison. In fairness, Trump regarded Cohen as a snitch and a traitor, so there well may have been political topspin on Cohen’s prosecution. Still, having heard the evidence, a federal judge decided that what Cohen did was reprehensible enough to warrant three years in prison.

Here’s the thing though: according to the indictment, Cohen committed every criminal act at the behest of, under the direction and control of, and for the benefit of Cohen’s client and unindicted co-conspirator, whom the indictment referred to as Individual 1. And Individual 1 is Trump.

So according to publicly available information, Trump was the cat, and Cohen was the cat’s paw. The Cat’s Justice Department put The Cat’s Paw in prison for three years on the same facts that some now say are too trivial to warrant punishment of The Cat. This is a stupid argument.

I haven’t delved into either the federal or NY state law, but pundits say it’ll be harder to get a felony conviction on these facts under NY law than it was under federal law. That may be so. But this is a criticism of Merrick Garland — whose DOJ secured Cohen’s guilty plea — and not Alvin Bragg, who’s cleaning up the mess.

Finally, to a handful of people I won’t defame by naming: I hope you’re doing well.

Of all the intervening issues of import to the nation and the the world, and hush money to a whore is what brought you back?

Really?

Welcome back? GFY?

 

[mcmurtry66]

Of all the intervening issues of import to the nation and the the world, and hush money to a whore is what brought you back?

Really?

Welcome back? GFY?

Nah. Goat gave him NIL $

 

[outside shooter]

"I sure liked Trump's policies"

He didn’t get your roads fixed, get any bridges built, get you healthcare coverage, lower the price of your prescriptions, decrease the deficit, do ANYTHING on the opioid crisis, revive the coal industry, make “covid disappear”, make Mexico “pay for the wall”, make the world respect America again (they instead laughed heartily), and he sure as hell didn’t “drain the swamp”.

He spewed hate that resonated with haters. If you adore him, that's likely what you admire.

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

Nah. Goat gave him sexual favors

FIFY

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

Of all the intervening issues of import to the nation and the the world, and hush money to a whore is what brought you back?

Really?

Welcome back? GFY?

If we are going to name the payment $, lets at least be accurate. It was simply paying extortion.

 

[mcmurtry66]

FIFY

That’d be preferable to NIL money. Certainly more useful. Adding a player does next to nothing to combat the dream team - killer bees. They’re like the wu tang clan. Changing handles. Spread out all over. Unruly. Up posting at all hours. Completely unpredictable. Persuaded by nothing.

 

[DANC]

Because he’s a criminal and has never even tried to hide it, And people like you don’t care,

Show me a criminal conviction and I'll comment on it.

Until then, quit lying.

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

Amazing. Rock comes back from the dead and all of a sudden we have a good thread of posts. Nice to see you again Rock.

 

[DANC]

Lock her up! Put Fauci in jail. Lock Biden up. And now, when we have actual crimes, it’s all political. Cheese with that whine?

Well, let's see - Hillary committed the crime of destroying e-mails under subpoena. Yes, she should be locked up.

Fauci lied repeatedly about Covid and was an investor in the Wuhan lab that killed millions. Yes, he deserves to be in jail.

Don't worry about Biden - he can now be charged by any red state prosecutor, since the precedent has been set. Joe, Hunter, Biden's brother - they'll all be locked up soon.

 

[DANC]

No one knows what the sealed indictment says, and no one knows what evidence Alvin Bragg has to support whatever the charges may be. So everyone making wild claims is full of shit.

Like everyone, I don’t know what the indictment says or what evidence supports the charges. But I stopped by to attack one particular argument being made by both serious and unserious people alike: the tawdry facts of the Stormy Daniels hush money payments are too trivial to warrant prosecution of Trump.

In particular, we don’t have to wonder what would happen to someone not named Donald Trump on these facts, because we already know what actually did happen to Michael Cohen on these facts.

Trump’s DOJ prosecuted Cohen for the Stormy Daniels hush money payments, and as a result Cohen was sentenced to three years in prison. In fairness, Trump regarded Cohen as a snitch and a traitor, so there well may have been political topspin on Cohen’s prosecution. Still, having heard the evidence, a federal judge decided that what Cohen did was reprehensible enough to warrant three years in prison.

Here’s the thing though: according to the indictment, Cohen committed every criminal act at the behest of, under the direction and control of, and for the benefit of Cohen’s client and unindicted co-conspirator, whom the indictment referred to as Individual 1. And Individual 1 is Trump.

So according to publicly available information, Trump was the cat, and Cohen was the cat’s paw. The Cat’s Justice Department put The Cat’s Paw in prison for three years on the same facts that some now say are too trivial to warrant punishment of The Cat. This is a stupid argument.

I haven’t delved into either the federal or NY state law, but pundits say it’ll be harder to get a felony conviction on these facts under NY law than it was under federal law. That may be so. But this is a criticism of Merrick Garland — whose DOJ secured Cohen’s guilty plea — and not Alvin Bragg, who’s cleaning up the mess.

Finally, to a handful of people I won’t defame by naming: I hope you’re doing well.

So why did Alvin Bragg's predecessor not indict? Why did Bragg himself decide originally not to indict after CAMPAIGNING on indicting Trump?

This is a political prosecution and nothing more.

 

[outside shooter]

Those damn Democrats have really started something now, targeting political opponents and charging them in court with wrongdoing!

Oh wait
2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019 GOP: Lock her up!
2020, 2021, 2022 GOP: Lock him up!

 

[zeke4ahs]

Show me a criminal conviction and I'll comment on it.

Until then, quit lying.

He buys his way out of everything in the past. But patience grasshopper

 

[DANC]

Valid concerns, I think, up until the point where one assumes that these "reasonable concerns" mean that the charges are "political" rather than "legally justifiable/necessary." That is to say, simply recognizing these pragmatic concerns doesn't mean that one has to assume the DA also recognized said pragmatic concerns and then discarded them in favor of partisan desires.

How about an incident that happened 7 years ago, well past the statute of limiatations?

How about a state court prosecuting a misdemeanor that is boot-strapped onto a federal law?

The DOJ declined to prosecute this. Alvian Bragg's predecessor declined to prosecute this. Bragg campaigned on getting Trump and initially declined to prosecute until someone put a gun to his head.

This is so much ado about nothing, it's ridiculous.

 

[DANC]

He buys his way out of everything in the past. But patience grasshopper

So you can call him a criminal, even though he's not been convicted of any criminal charge.

Sad. Crayfish has you pegged.

 

[DANC]

Someone said Rockfish 3 times.

Good post, I had not thought of that. If he was found guilty and served time for his participation in the exact same crime, it is uncomfortable to say Trump is above the law entirely. I will rethink my position. But a basic American tenant has always been that no one is above the law.

Welcome back to that same old place you laughed about.

No one is beneath the law, either. Trump deserves the same legal protection as anyone else.

 

[zeke4ahs]

So you can call him a criminal, even though he's not been convicted of any criminal charge.

Sad. Crayfish has you pegged.

Lock her up! Lock her up! The hypocrisy is stunning were it not so predictable.

 

[DANC]

I hear what you're saying, and I hear a lot of centrist pundits making the same points, but I think this critique misses the point.

If there were a movie director orchestrating all the scenes of the various investigations and possible prosecutions, this one might not have been the director's choice for the first scene. But we aren't living in a movie, and notwithstanding Trump's claims, there isn't anyone directing the inquisitions.

Things are happening in a haphazard way because different authorities in different jurisdictions are proceeding on different timelines for different offenses under different laws. That's just how it goes when a former President has committed multiple crimes in multiple jurisdictions in so many different ways.

Things will happen how they happen because we live in a messy world and Trump is a messy guy. Trump has committed numerous offense that would put any sociopath who happened to become president in tough spot, because he's inevitably committed so many felonies. I think it's a mistake to treat Trump as though he were a normal person and not an obvious sociopath who shouldn't be allowed in the White House on a visitors pass.

I have no idea how people will react if Trump were held accountable. But outrage from lunatics shouldn't shield a sociopath from punishment in a society that lives under the rule of law for everyone, including even Orange Julius Caesar.

Well, I'm glad you're not prejudging, as your post above warned us not to do.

 

[DANC]

Lock her up! Lock her up! The hypocrisy is stunning were it not so predictable.

I just explained to you why she should be locked up.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Anybody seen Matt n Dallas?

 

[DANC]

@TommyCracker desantis as president I do not believe could pardon trump. Only fed charges not state. This is state

But he's using a federal law to prosecute.

The statute of limitations ran out on the state law a long time ago.

 

[DANC]

Amazing. Rock comes back from the dead and all of a sudden we have a good thread of posts. Nice to see you again Rock.

'good thread' = you agree with most posts.

He's sure brought out the fanbois, though.

 

[mcmurtry66]

But he's using a federal law to prosecute.

The statute of limitations ran out on the state law a long time ago.

State conviction. No pardon power

 

[DANC]

Of all the intervening issues of import to the nation and the the world, and hush money to a whore is what brought you back?

Really?

Welcome back? GFY?

It's a very important matter, don'tcha know.

The future of democracy hangs in the balance.

 

[DANC]

State conviction. No pardon power

On a federal charge? 'splain that to me.

 

[mcmurtry66]

On a federal charge? 'splain that to me.

We don’t know the charges. Some crim charges fall under both state and fed law with concurrent jurisdiction. In those cases a decision is made where to prosecute. It’s this decision that’s dispositive. If it’s fed Ct then pardon power. If it’s state court which will lead to a State conviction then no pardon power.

I think. I make products

 

[outside shooter]

If DJT evaded taxes by falsely writing off hush money payments as deductable business expenses (legal fees), he likely evaded both state and Federal taxes, and so NY (his legal home at the time) has the legit right to hold him accountable.

Accountability doesn't seem to sit well with his fanboys here.

It's not the strongest case aginst him and everyone who wants this cancer cut out of the American political system wishes that other cases would have come up first, but it is what it is. He played stupid games and now will get stupid prizes.

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

How about an incident that happened 7 years ago, well past the statute of limiatations?

How about a state court prosecuting a misdemeanor that is boot-strapped onto a federal law?

The DOJ declined to prosecute this. Alvian Bragg's predecessor declined to prosecute this. Bragg campaigned on getting Trump and initially declined to prosecute until someone put a gun to his head.

This is so much ado about nothing, it's ridiculous.

I would like to subpoena all bank records and recent spending habits of ever member of the grand jury while we are at it.

 

[DANC]

If DJT evaded taxes by falsely writing off hush money payments as deductable business expenses (legal fees), he likely evaded both state and Federal taxes, and so NY (his legal home at the time) has the legit right to hold him accountable.

Accountability doesn't seem to sit well with his fanboys here.

It's not the strongest case aginst him and everyone who wants this cancer cut out of the American political system wishes that other cases would have come up first, but it is what it is. He played stupid games and now will get stupid prizes.

You have me on ignore, but I used 'fanboi' and then you use 'fanboy'.

Who do you think you're fooling?

 

[mcmurtry66]

You have me on ignore, but I used 'fanboi' and then you use 'fanboy'.

Who do you think you're fooling?

SMOKED. OUT.

 

[IU_Hickory]

I would like to subpoena all bank records and recent spending habits of ever member of the grand jury while we are at it.

And yet you would have to provide a valid reason to do so. And just because they were summoned for jury duty and you are a fanboy of the defendant doesn't count

 

[Circlejoe]

'good thread' = you agree with most posts.

He's sure brought out the fanbois, though.

Well it was good for awhile.

 

[IUCrazy2]

Yeah . . . that's a pretty good recitation, except I didn't get the part about "while they are struggling" when I read the article. If that's the case, I would agree with you . . . but I'm not sure why you concluded that, as the phrase "he turned the firearm on the would-be thief and shot him in the chest" tells me that they weren't struggling over the firearm at the time the defendant shot the man.

If my interpretation is right, then I don't have a problem with the charges . . . unless your theory is that once involved in a crime you lose all rights . . . and I think the law is pretty clear that's not the case.

Besides, the wasn't Bragg bringing charges, it was the police. While police hit Diarra with attempted murder, it wasn’t immediately clear if prosecutors would follow through with the charge. I don't have a problem with police bringing charges to resolve a dispute that's violent. Prosecutors can sort it all out later. In a similar case involving a bodega worker named Alba, Bragg dismissed charges: Alba spent six days in Rikers before Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg dropped the controversial murder charge amid intense public pressure to do so.

BTW, the police did charge the other guy: The suspected thief, identified as Charles Rhodie, 59, was also charged with attempted murder, assault and criminal possession of a weapon, as well as burglary, police said late Saturday.

What's your beef with Bragg?

For an update, they dropped the charges now. The defendant had no record and the guy he tried to question had 20 prior arrests, mostly for petty larceny. So armed thief gets stopped trying to break into cars, shoots person hired to protect property, and then has gun taken from him and shot himself. That is self defense to me and it took public embarrassment to get the guy to drop charges. And this is the second time he tried to railroad someone defending themselves that I am aware of.

What about New York’s victims, Alvin Bragg?

Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg announced on taking office he would not prosecute even some very violent crimes.

nypost.com

I don't like prosecutors like Bragg because they end up being a menace to their communities with how they approach crime.

 

[outside shooter]

[You are ignoring content by this member]

 

[mcmurtry66]

[You are ignoring content by this member]

Then how did you know to post that?

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

For an update, they dropped the charges now. The defendant had no record and the guy he tried to question had 20 prior arrests, mostly for petty larceny. So armed thief gets stopped trying to break into cars, shoots person hired to protect property, and then has gun taken from him and shot himself. That is self defense to me and it took public embarrassment to get the guy to drop charges. And this is the second time he tried to railroad someone defending themselves that I am aware of.

What about New York’s victims, Alvin Bragg?

Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg announced on taking office he would not prosecute even some very violent crimes.

nypost.com

I don't like prosecutors like Bragg because they end up being a menace to their communities with how they approach crime.

I agree that some of Bragg's charging decisions have baffled me, but what you just described is absolutely not self-defense. Perhaps you misstated something? I'm not familiar with the story your referring to.

 

[outside shooter]

Then how did you know to post that?

The main menu updates with most recent posts and it frequently says that the last post was by "ignored member".

In an active thread such as this one, the posts are numbered and I'll see a gap of a bunch of posts, knowing it's the purveyors of crap at it again.

I sometimes have made the stupid choice of clicking on "show ignored content" when a whole series of ignored posts follow something that I have posted. It's never worth it, though. I don't need the moron take.

 

[TommyCracker]

@TommyCracker desantis as president I do not believe could pardon trump. Only fed charges not state. This is state

I did not know that. Learned something new here

I thought a presidential pardon was an all encompassing get out of jail free card for the specific crimes stated in the pardon (and I'm not sure specific crimes are listed now that I think about it).

That's why I tend to STFU in law threads. Lol

 

[IU_Hickory]

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