Get the straight jacket ready for Outside Shooter.
- Thread starter burnthemallralphie
- Start date
The Original happy Goat said:
In a court of law, actual scientific facts cannot be ignored. Goodell could ignore any fact that he wanted to ignore.
Proving with 100% certainty that you are innocent may be the legal standard in Iraq, but not in the US. The relevant legal standard is a preponderance of the evidence. ALL EVIDENCE. This would include the actual pressure readings made, showing an average pressure drop completely consistent with a weather-related pressure drop.
When there is no clear evidence that footballs were tampered with, there is no case.
That's like continuing a murder investigation when you determine that there never was a dead body.
Serious questions....
For those who believe that Tom Brady cheated and that he ordered that footballs be deflated,
Q1: How did he have "the deflator" mark which three of the 11 footballs were going to be made 0.12-0.42 psi too low, which four of the 11 footballs were going to be made 0.03-0.78 psi too high, and which four of the 11 footballs tested were going to be not touched/altered at all?
Q2: Why would he want three types of footballs in the game, when he doesn't pick what footballs are put in play (a ref swaps out a football when it seems too wet)?
Q3: Did Tom call him "the deflator" 27.3% of the time, "hey you" 36.4% of the time, and "the inflator" the other 36.4% of the time?
Supporting info:
Wells report, page 8, readings of PATRIOTS footballs with the gauge that the ref said he had used in pregame pressure measurements:
Football #1 expect 11.32-11.52, found 11.80 - HIGH by 0.28 psi
Football #2 expect 11.32-11.52, found 11.20 -LOW by 0.12 psi
Football #3 expect 11.32-11.52, found 11.50 - compliant
Football #4 expect 11.32-11.52, found 11.00-LOW by 0.32 psi
Football #5 expect 11.32-11.52, found 11.45- compliant
Football #6 expect 11.32-11.52, found 11.95 - HIGH by 0.42 psi
Football #7 expect 11.32-11.52, found 12.30 - HIGH by 0.78 psi
Football #8 expect 11.32-11.52, found 11.55 - HIGH by 0.03 psi
Football # 9 expect 11.32-11.52, found 11.35 - compliant
Football #10 expect 11.32-11.52, found 10.90 -LOW by 0.42 psi
Football #11 expect 11.32-11.52, found 11.35 – compliant
Note: 11.32-11.52 range was calculated in the Wells report, see page 113: “the Ideal Gas Law predicts that the Patriots balls should have measured between 11.52 and 11.32 psi at the end of the first half”
For those who believe that Tom Brady cheated and that he ordered that footballs be deflated,
Q1: How did he have "the deflator" mark which three of the 11 footballs were going to be made 0.12-0.42 psi too low, which four of the 11 footballs were going to be made 0.03-0.78 psi too high, and which four of the 11 footballs tested were going to be not touched/altered at all?
Q2: Why would he want three types of footballs in the game, when he doesn't pick what footballs are put in play (a ref swaps out a football when it seems too wet)?
Q3: Did Tom call him "the deflator" 27.3% of the time, "hey you" 36.4% of the time, and "the inflator" the other 36.4% of the time?
Supporting info:
Wells report, page 8, readings of PATRIOTS footballs with the gauge that the ref said he had used in pregame pressure measurements:
Football #1 expect 11.32-11.52, found 11.80 - HIGH by 0.28 psi
Football #2 expect 11.32-11.52, found 11.20 -LOW by 0.12 psi
Football #3 expect 11.32-11.52, found 11.50 - compliant
Football #4 expect 11.32-11.52, found 11.00-LOW by 0.32 psi
Football #5 expect 11.32-11.52, found 11.45- compliant
Football #6 expect 11.32-11.52, found 11.95 - HIGH by 0.42 psi
Football #7 expect 11.32-11.52, found 12.30 - HIGH by 0.78 psi
Football #8 expect 11.32-11.52, found 11.55 - HIGH by 0.03 psi
Football # 9 expect 11.32-11.52, found 11.35 - compliant
Football #10 expect 11.32-11.52, found 10.90 -LOW by 0.42 psi
Football #11 expect 11.32-11.52, found 11.35 – compliant
Note: 11.32-11.52 range was calculated in the Wells report, see page 113: “the Ideal Gas Law predicts that the Patriots balls should have measured between 11.52 and 11.32 psi at the end of the first half”
Last edited:
Legal Value: 12 1/2 to 13 1/2 pounds
All 12 defective.
$83,333.33 per ball.
All 12 defective.
$83,333.33 per ball.
Haha, no team comes close to being the convicted cheaters the Patriots are. there isn't even a close second.
But of course you know more then the entire NFL!!!!
I guess the NFL is out to get their current champion because that is good for business.
How can an intelligent person become a complete idiot because they like a sports team?
I guess your goal of giving Brady fellatio is quite strong, there is no other reasonable explanation.
Ha...might want to ask his baby mama if he cheats. He cheats in both interpretations of the meanings, in both his personal and his business life. Does that really surprise anyone but you?
Colts footballs, using the gauge that the ref say that he used in pregame (Wells report, page 8):
12.35 cheat!
12.30 cheat!
12.95* Wells report speculates that two readings were switched as they were written down, that this reading should be 12.50
12.15 cheat!
Legal Value: 12 1/2 to 13 1/2 pounds
3 of 4 defective.
no fine?
applying actual science:
Colts beginning value: 13.0 psi
expected value 13.00 - 1.13 = 11.87 at the beginning of halftime
Add 0.70 psi for 10 minutes of warming (for warming curve see fig 22 on page 204 of the Wells report, assume average of wet & dry curves)
11.87 + 0.70 = 12.57 psi predicted
found: 12.44 psi
conclusion: Colts footballs, like Patriots footballs, seem to obey the ideal gas law and become non-compliant with normal cooling.
You are mistaken. Brady does not have to prove in a court of law that he is innocent to any particular standard. He has to prove, based on a preponderance of the evidence, that the NFL has acted illegally in suspending him (whether by violating the CBA, labor law in Massachussetts, or some other law, or through the commission of a tort). If he can't prove his own innocence, however, he's probably not going to win that argument, which is one reason why, if he's not certain he can absolutely prove his own innocence, he's unlikely to actually go to court. He might convince the judge that he's probably innocent (preponderance of the evidence is generally taken to mean 51% in favor), but if the judge still believes that the NFL was reasonable in determining otherwise, he'll probably rule in favor of the NFL.
In other words, the legal standard for proving that the NFL behaved illegally is preponderance of the evidence, but in order to get there, he's essentially going to have to meet the much stricter "substantial evidence" standard, much like he would if he were appealing an administrative ruling or a jury trial - essentially he has to prove the NFL had no reasonable basis to suspend him. I say "essentially," because that won't be the technical burden at the trial level, but it will be the de facto burden because of what he has to prove to show the NFL violated the law.
There are essentially three words I can think of that are pretty much off-limits in almost any circumstance. Right or wrong, don't use the f-word, the c-word or the n-word. Any post with one of those words is likely to get deleted.
I only gave you a 24 hour vacation because:
1. It was your third offense, and you seemed to be ignoring my asking you to stop using the word.
2. 24 hours was the shortest ban Rivals would allow. I would have simply given you an hour ban, if I could. Just to get your attention.
Perhaps from now on, I'll send people direct messages before I use a hammer, if they aren't noticing the warning alerts.
As I said, stop trying to sneak the C-word into your posts while you're trolling the Colts fans, and I have exactly zero problems with your posts.
People use acronyms freely here, but I would strongly caution anyone against using those same acronyms on other boards. The mods on the other boards take their jobs more seriously than we do.
BINGO
It is established fact that the NFL violated their own collective bargaining agreement in this case in two important ways:
1) The case was adjudicated, and the suspension was handed down by, Goodell's assistant Troy Vincent, in violation of the CBA, which delegates RG as the sole authority in such matters
2) The suspension was not reviewed, in advance, by the executive director of the NFLPA as a consultant, as is required by the CBA
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...t-on-delegation-of-authority-to-troy-vincent/
Mike Florio said:
I think he will win based on the facts, but there are clear and specific CBA violations as well
Last edited:
Americans love a good train wreck and all the drama that it causes. Especially when its about their favorite religion. This doesn't hurt business at all. It keeps people focused on the NFL even in the off season. This is now the TMZ NFL.. and this is just good marketing. Every NFL off season is filled with drama of some kind, and it hasn't hurt them a bit. If someone isn't killing someone, or abusing dogs, or raping, then cheating is the next best story.
Scientific & forensic evidence suggest that the Watergate break-ins actually occurred.
No scientific & forensic evidence suggest that any human-promoted deflation of footballs occurred, whatsoever, never mind whether anyone was "generally aware" that it may be a decent idea or not.
Again, it needs to be very, very clear, that, in the court case, whether or not he is guilty is a secondary issue. He cannot go to court to prove his innocence. If he does that, the judge will throw the case out for failure to state a claim under Rule 12(b), which is probably the rule that gets non-lawyers representing themselves thrown out of court more than any other. Just because you are right about something doesn't mean you have a legal recourse.
If Brady wants to sue the NFL, he must assert that the NFL violated the law by suspending him. Proving his innocence may be a part of that. Or, he may go the procedural route you mentioned, and argue that the procedures themselves were a violation. But no matter how he does it, simply trying to prove that he is innocent of deflating the balls is not enough.
No, because they were ignorant of the basic fact that cooling lowers football pressure.
Then someone "with involved in the investigation" told Chris Mortensen that "11 of 12 footballs were 2 psi below specs". This was a lie, but was the match in the gas can. The actual pressure data consisted of 22 measurements. ONE was 10.5 psi. 21 were above that, most WELL above that.
The NFL stood by that lie for 3.5 months, never correcting it.
If being "out to get" somebody involves issuing a damaging lie and then refusing to correct it for more than 3 entire months, then "out to get them" fits this situation perfectly.
WARNING! WARNING! AOTF MEMBERS BEING SUCKED INTO "BRADYGATE" WORMHOLE!! I REPEAT, AOTF MEMBERS BEING SUCKED INTO "BRADYGATE" WORMHOLE!! DO NOT ATTEMPT RESCUE, TURN AROUND, DON'T POST, THE SANITY YOU SAVE COULD BE YOUR OWN!
I think we are in general agreement.
The court can vacate the suspension on the grounds that the procedures followed violated the CBA. This seems a pretty easy sell.
Then it will likely not be up to the court to issue an appropriate suspension. It would likely be up to a court-appointed and truly independent arbitrator, who would do a de novo review of all relevant information to see if the preponderance of the evidence does or does not implicate #12. With the suspension vacated, this would allow additional discovery, such as other scientific analyses of the data, prior to the arbitrator review.
The fact that they are not appealing is an admission of guilt. No matter what happens with Brady's appeal. Known as two-time cheaters, forever tainted by their self-admitted guilt.
If this actually went to a court-appointed arbitrator (which I highly doubt), discovery would also mean Brady turning over all his phone records (i.e., not just the ones scrubbed by his lawyer) and so forth, just as if he tried to prove innocence at trial. There are a lot of reasons why he doesn't want that.
This thing is not going to go to court.
Good gawd you are in denial. 2 things support the idea that the balls were being deflated.
1) Brady himself said he liked underinflated balls, with no provocation I might add.
2) The "deflator" moniker. And no, no rational, intelligent person believes that he was referring to weight loss or any other such complete BS.
Now, please carry on being bat shite cray cray....
WARNING! WARNING! AOTF MEMBERS BEING SUCKED INTO "BRADYGATE" WORMHOLE!! I REPEAT, AOTF MEMBERS BEING SUCKED INTO "BRADYGATE" WORMHOLE!! DO NOT ATTEMPT RESCUE, TURN AROUND, DON'T POST, THE SANITY YOU SAVE COULD BE YOUR OWN!
Explain the text about needing to "deflate" in order to be able to wear a smaller jacket.
You won't.
1) Colts aren't known cheaters.
2) Colts have won Super Bowls without cheating.
3) So the Colts only play with 4 balls to NE's 12? Who knew?
4) Show me Ideal Gas Law in the rulebook.
Explain Robert Kraft refusing to fight....and that the Cheatriots have been caught cheating twice...
He may well have used it in that context. But no one uses that term in that context unless it's an inside joke, i.e., he's already known for "deflating" things.
That's all well and good, but the NFL has been aware of "deflation" issues with the Pats since 2003.
Don't ask for a link - I'm not gonna reveal my source, other than to guarantee you it comes from someone "inside."
Brady's been deflating for a LOOOOOOONG time. The difference now is that the Colts called the NFL's bluff. That is what the NFL gets for letting Jim stick around. But the Pats, and specifically Brady, are guilty as shiznit. If he would've just owned up to this back in January, it would already be done, because mucho other QB's have done the same thing. But Brady couldn't show half a nut and say, "I screwed up." He's going to pay for that.
By the way, I am still waiting for OS to apologize for disparaging the Vikings by falsely claiming they illegally heated balls last year. Knowaddimean?
I wouldn't wait for OS to wipe my buttocks.
But yes, I do know what you mean.
Yes, apparently NFL.com and espn.com incorrectly implicated the Vikings, because the Panthers were doing it, oddly, on the Vikings sidelines.
Both teams were warned, but Minnesota's warning was to prevent it from happening.
My apologies for passing on this misinformation, which was finally corrected for the first time in any media report just 12 days ago, many months after it was widely reported:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/14/actually-vikings-didnt-warm-footballs-in-november/
Minnesota ranks below average in NFL cheating rankings, well below more prolific cheaters such as the Colts:
http://yourteamcheats.com/cheaters/
Similar threads
Latest posts
-
-
Report: Indiana contacts Monmouth transfer big man Nikita Konstantynovskyi- Latest: WhyisIUBBcursed
-
-
