Fundamentals (anyone catch this comment)?

[.Gerdis]

Late in the game, the announcers were talking about players learning fundamentals, and how that has changed over the years. They mentioned when Coach Knight was still active, and contrasted it with how things are currently. Woodson (according to the announcer) had stated that no players learn fundamentals prior to college now and that they needed to be taught these things by their college coaches now.

Maybe someone here recalled what the announcer (and MW) said, and I imagine that some hyperbole may have been involved. But, it did cause me to wonder: is it that players aren’t being taught fundamentals? Or is it that our players aren’t being taught fundamentals (or, as a staff our recruiting is valuing something else)?

In any event, I thought it was interesting what was said, and hadn’t seen it mentioned here.

 

[uncleter]

UConn appeared to be pretty fundamentally sound

 

[IUNorth]

I don't think its probably a reach to say players coming in to college are less fundamentally sound today, than they used to be. They're bigger, stronger, faster, and in many ways, more skilled with the ball. But fundamental things like blocking out, fighting through screens, helpside defense, etc... all of that, I would think, has to be focused on and taught more, when they arrive on campus. OR...the program needs to play a style that minimizes the need to be fundamentally sound in some of those areas.

This is all guesswork based on what his teams have looked like in games...but I think Woody is caught in between. He's looking back to his days playing for RMK...knowing the benefit and need to be fundamentally razor sharp. But practically, he's functioning and coaching more from his NBA days and experiences. So he talks about RMK level things like fundamentals...but he conducts his day to day coaching, recruiting, etc... more like an NBA franchise.

 

[bsmitty08]

It’s crazy, I watch a lot of Indiana high school basketball and I’m pretty sure they still teach fundamentals in this state. I see much better shooting and free throw shooting, boxing out, talking on defense in small school basketball then with IU basketball

 

[Hatchets7times]

You can either pretty much ball or you can't by age 18.
You think Crean taught Cody or Yogi things they didn't already know.
Their AAU coach was better than him..
Fundamentals...Jr High and younger..

 

[IUNorth]

It’s crazy, I watch a lot of Indiana high school basketball and I’m pretty sure they still teach fundamentals in this state. I see much better shooting and free throw shooting, boxing out, talking on defense in small school basketball then with IU basketball

Not nearly as many kids going to high majors from traditional Indiana HS's as there used to be. Obviously it still happens, just a lot more Monteverdes, LaLu's, etc...

And my perception is those schools have quite a lot less traditional practice time, with them playing 40 plus games, traveling a lot more, etc...

 

[MIS01]

It’s crazy, I watch a lot of Indiana high school basketball and I’m pretty sure they still teach fundamentals in this state. I see much better shooting and free throw shooting, boxing out, talking on defense in small school basketball then with IU basketball

I hate to say this, but that may be one of the reasons Painter has been successful lately. He does a lot of recruiting in state

 

[bsmitty08]

Not nearly as many kids going to high majors from traditional Indiana HS's as there used to be. Obviously it still happens, just a lot more Monteverdes, LaLu's, etc...

And my perception is those schools have quite a lot less traditional practice time, with them playing 40 plus games, traveling a lot more, etc...

Indiana is still churning out a lot of D1 players.
Just off Pu and IU
PU: Gillis, Smith, Loyer, Furst, Kauffman, Waddell, Colvin plus catchings and Benter next year

iu: Gunn, Leal, Galloway, Sparks

 

[IUNorth]

Indiana is still churning out a lot of D1 players.
Just off Pu and IU
PU: Gillis, Smith, Loyer, Furst, Kauffman, Waddell, Colvin plus catchings and Benter next year

iu: Gunn, Leal, Galloway, Sparks

It is...

Catchings isn't a great example...with him leaving traditional HS for OTE...

And while I'd take Purdue's successes recently, and their current position, in a heartbeat...we do spend a lot of time on here making fun of them for getting exposed by more athletic teams in March. I'm not certain IU could build a Final Four/Natty contending level program with a bunch of traditional high school kids. You need the Monteverde/LaLu type kids too.

Good blend of both would be ideal.

 

[bsmitty08]

It is...

Catchings isn't a great example...with him leaving traditional HS for OTE...

And while I'd take Purdue's successes recently, and their current position, in a heartbeat...we do spend a lot of time on here making fun of them for getting exposed by more athletic teams in March. I'm not certain IU could build a Final Four/Natty contending level program with a bunch of traditional high school kids. You need the Monteverde/LaLu type kids too.

Good blend of both would be ideal.

Well currently we are not building either lol. A team that can win the BIG and BIG tourney or a final 4

 

[Bucket Getter]

First off, Jay Williams is a clown. Drove me nuts trying to watch that game with his constant gibberish.

Secondly, I’m not exactly sure how you can recruit guys (hs or portal) then complain about them not having fundamentals. I guess he didn’t notice any of those issues during recruiting?

Lastly, I couldn’t agree more about our overall lack of fundamentals. Just off the top of my head in this particular game:

MM never actually does get into a defensive stance.

Reneau stands under the basket and watches the rebound instead of blocking anyone out.

Ware did the same thing, but he’s got enough length to actually grab a few. But he almost always brings the ball down to his waist when rebounding.

Gunn and MM got back cut for layups multiple times.

Cupps got beat off the dribble for another layup.

X tried to dribble in heavy traffic when we got it to 7. Ball was predictably knocked away resulting in a 3 point play. Lead to 10 and ballgame.

That’s a helluva lot of terrible fundamentals.

 

[HoosierAlum07]

IU needs to focus more on shooting fundamentals, form wise especially. How XJs shot has gotten worse looking is an indicator that IU isn’t worried about correct shooting form. Also, going back to how Kopp got worse than he was with NW! He was a really good shooter at NW, but for some reason he developed that shot where he leaned to far over or jumped too forward instead of jumping straight up.

You still have a lot of these kids that have that bad hitch in their form too that they can’t learn to get rid of, because they focus too much on their athleticism and practice more on dunking and jumping higher than the rim. Thats what AAU has become. Kids worry more about breaking someones ankles and making dunking posters for social media than making a boring jump shot that won’t get anyones attention.

 

[bsmitty08]

IU needs to focus more on shooting fundamentals, form wise especially. How XJs shot has gotten worse looking is an indicator that IU isn’t worried about correct shooting form. Also, going back to how Kopp got worse than he was with NW! He was a really good shooter at NW, but for some reason he developed that shot where he leaned to far over or jumped too forward instead of jumping straight up.

You still have a lot of these kids that have that bad hitch in their form too that they can’t learn to get rid of, because they focus too much on their athleticism and practice more on dunking and jumping higher than the rim. Thats what AAU has become. Kids worry more about breaking someone’s ankles and making dunking posters for social media than making a boring jump shot that won’t get anyones attention.

The last 6 season plus this years games, iu has been out scored by 942 pts from 3

 

[jacksback]

First off, Jay Williams is a clown. Drove me nuts trying to watch that game with his constant gibberish.

Secondly, I’m not exactly sure how you can recruit guys (hs or portal) then complain about them not having fundamentals. I guess he didn’t notice any of those issues during recruiting?

Lastly, I couldn’t agree more about our overall lack of fundamentals. Just off the top of my head in this particular game:

MM never actually does get into a defensive stance.

Reneau stands under the basket and watches the rebound instead of blocking anyone out.

Ware did the same thing, but he’s got enough length to actually grab a few. But he almost always brings the ball down to his waist when rebounding.

Gunn and MM got back cut for layups multiple times.

Cupps got beat off the dribble for another layup.

X tried to dribble in heavy traffic when we got it to 7. Ball was predictably knocked away resulting in a 3 point play. Lead to 10 and ballgame.

That’s a helluva lot of terrible fundamentals.

Yeah, that's kinda ridiculous and totally accurate. I kinda of relate the fundamentals you describe to what you might call "winning plays" and we simply don't have enough players making winning plays. In our first few games, Cupps was a perfect example of a kid who came in and just made winning plays (although he looked like a deer in headlights against UConn).

I got no answers other than saying that Woody is gonna have to coach the crap out of this bunch if we are going to be any good by the end of the season.

 

[kmathum]

Not nearly as many kids going to high majors from traditional Indiana HS's as there used to be. Obviously it still happens, just a lot more Monteverdes, LaLu's, etc...

And my perception is those schools have quite a lot less traditional practice time, with them playing 40 plus games, traveling a lot more, etc...

Recruit more Indiana kids and be wary of these 5* prima donnas.

 

[steelyvan]

The last 6 season plus this years games, iu has been out scored by 942 pts from 3

i dont like that stat either, but:

942 points divided by ~ 30 games/season for 6 seasons = ~ 5 pts/game

if we were a championship caliber team we would be hitting shots at the rim and draining 3 pointers

 

[NWfor3]

Not a big fan of J-Will, he is still living off his playing days. But I did agree with some of his observations yesterday, especially about Mgbako. On a defensive possession, shot goes up by UCONN and Mgbako never attempted to box his man out. They showed the replay and he was totally watching the flight of the ball while his man was right next to him. He never attempted to box out...offensive rebound for UCONN on the missed shot.
Having coached in Indiana from the MS to HS levels and AAU, our teams always spent a lot of time working on fundamentals. We used to beat some more talented AAU teams because our program was more fundamentally sound.

 

[Willdog7]

I hate to say this, but that may be one of the reasons Painter has been successful lately. He does a lot of recruiting in state

That why he lose in the first rounds of the NCAA tourneys

 

[bsmitty08]

That why he lose in the first rounds of the NCAA tourneys

Not it isn’t. Has nothing to do with recruiting kids from Indiana.
He loses in tourney to less talented teams due to them Speeding the games up and making them play a sloppier brand of basketball.

 

[Chicago-bound Hoosier]

First off, Jay Williams is a clown. Drove me nuts trying to watch that game with his constant gibberish.

Secondly, I’m not exactly sure how you can recruit guys (hs or portal) then complain about them not having fundamentals. I guess he didn’t notice any of those issues during recruiting?

Lastly, I couldn’t agree more about our overall lack of fundamentals. Just off the top of my head in this particular game:

MM never actually does get into a defensive stance.

Reneau stands under the basket and watches the rebound instead of blocking anyone out.

Ware did the same thing, but he’s got enough length to actually grab a few. But he almost always brings the ball down to his waist when rebounding.

Gunn and MM got back cut for layups multiple times.

Cupps got beat off the dribble for another layup.

X tried to dribble in heavy traffic when we got it to 7. Ball was predictably knocked away resulting in a 3 point play. Lead to 10 and ballgame.

That’s a helluva lot of terrible fundamentals.

that play with X losing the ball...felt like Kopp's missed 30 footer against Miami. You could feel the momentum shift in a nanosecond.

It's becoming pretty obvious they don't focus much on blocking out out at these super academies or at these fancy summer tourneys. Whomever can jump the highest.

Getting burned repeatedly on those back cuts.....can't wait to play NW or Rutgers. Or Wisky. They'll beat us over the head with back cuts.

 

[Willdog7]

Not it isn’t. Has nothing to do with recruiting kids from Indiana.
He loses in tourney to less talented teams due to them Speeding the games up and making them play a sloppier brand of basketball.

Maybe those kids from Indiana are not good enough. He is going after Haraldson, Sisley and Hall.

 

[bsmitty08]

Maybe those kids from Indiana are not good enough. He is going after Haraldson, Sisley and Hall.

What?

 

[Chicago-bound Hoosier]

What?

who's Harold's son ?

 

[ulrey]

It’s crazy, I watch a lot of Indiana high school basketball and I’m pretty sure they still teach fundamentals in this state. I see much better shooting and free throw shooting, boxing out, talking on defense in small school basketball then with IU basketball

AAU has destroyed basketball.

 

[ulrey]

Maybe those kids from Indiana are not good enough. He is going after Haraldson, Sisley and Hall.

Who’s telling him they’re not good enough?? Assistants?

 

[IUINSB]

Solid fundamentals don't make for exciting highlight/recruiting tapes.