Coach, you've been 'awful'

[Chicago-bound Hoosier]

Favorite play which summarizes this team on defense is when we retreated against a wide open three point shooter. Can't recall if it was MR or MM. I don't recall that ever happening in a D1 game.

It was MR. I replayed that play several times on DVR. And of all people to leave open, you knew that kid was just itchin' for a clean look to shoot, and that was about as clean a look as you can get.

But we have much bigger problems. I've been worried about TG as the 30 min/game 2 guard since last yr. Love the kid but shooting guard is not his role...he can't shoot consistently. Never has. A high level P5 team needs a 2 guard who can shoot it and score 10-15 ppg. Trey is a super-sub type of player. He's been cast into a role this season, by necessity more than anything else, and it's not a role that he's made for at all.

Add that to the painful fact that Gunn and Banks are not showing any development progress since last season, and it now looks like Feb-Mar 2022 XJ was an anomaly (have not seen that version of X since). All spells for a long winter and backward program momentum.

If we had not landed Ware, and MR hadn't actually shown some offseason progress, we would have already lost half those close games vs Cupcake U that we used to win easily.

 

[mohoosier]

I found the transcript of Woodson's post game remarks and it does not look like he called anyone out "by name" but he did say "our starting two guards, they were awful tonight" so maybe same thing.

But he also said "I’ve got to get them over the hump when it comes to defending and rebounding and not turning the ball over, that’s my job to do that, and we failed in that area tonight." so I would say he realizes that he "owns" this team's performance.

Semantics, what’s he actually doing about it?

 

[bsmitty08]

It was MR. I replayed that play several times on DVR. And off all people to leave open, you knew that kid was just itchin' for a clean look to shoot, and that was about as clean a look as you can get.

But we have much bigger problems. I've been worried about TG as the 30 min/game 2 guard since last yr. Love the kid but shooting guard is not his role...he can't shoot consistently. Never has. A high level P5 team needs a 2 guard who can shoot it and score 10-15 ppg. Trey is a super-sub type of player. He's been cast into a role this season, by necessity more than anything else, and it's not a role that he's made for at all.

Add that to the painful fact that Gunn and Banks are not showing any development progress since last season, and it now looks like Feb-Mar 2022 XJ was an anomaly (have not seen that version of X since). All spells for a long winter and backward program momentum.

If we had not landed Ware, and MR hadn't actually shown some offseason progress, we would have already lost half those close games vs Cupcake U that we used to win easily.

Galloway is a bench spark. Nothing more..

 

[FormerRevMatt]

It was MR. I replayed that play several times on DVR. And of all people to leave open, you knew that kid was just itchin' for a clean look to shoot, and that was about as clean a look as you can get.

But we have much bigger problems. I've been worried about TG as the 30 min/game 2 guard since last yr. Love the kid but shooting guard is not his role...he can't shoot consistently. Never has. A high level P5 team needs a 2 guard who can shoot it and score 10-15 ppg. Trey is a super-sub type of player. He's been cast into a role this season, by necessity more than anything else, and it's not a role that he's made for at all.

Add that to the painful fact that Gunn and Banks are not showing any development progress since last season, and it now looks like Feb-Mar 2022 XJ was an anomaly (have not seen that version of X since). All spells for a long winter and backward program momentum.

If we had not landed Ware, and MR hadn't actually shown some offseason progress, we would have already lost half those close games vs Cupcake U that we used to win easily.

I agree about TG. Trey is the perfect 6th man. He would give you that spark off the bench the way that Will Sheehey used to back in the day. He's not the ideal starting 2-guard because he's not a great volume outside shooter. The fact that this team is still missing that is mystifying me to me.

In a best-case scenario, what did Woody think would happen? MM would come in and fill the 3-spot and shoot well. Ok, I could see that. But neither Newton nor Cupps were great high school shooters.

Did Woody think that TG was suddenly going to become a great volume shooter? I mean, he shot better from 3 last year, but he did it while shooting very little. I can't believe that Coach thought that he was suddenly going to become a volume shooter.

Did he think that Gunn was suddenly going to become that guy? I just can't figure out why he didn't bring in a another 2-guard who was a strong volume shooter. He had to see the problem there, right? We haven't had that for years. He obviously thought he had that in Tamar, but that didn't work out, and he left in plenty of time to find a replacement.

 

[Chicago-bound Hoosier]

I agree about TG. Trey is the perfect 6th man. He would give you that spark off the bench the way that Will Sheehey used to back in the day. He's not the ideal starting 2-guard because he's not a great volume outside shooter. The fact that this team is still missing that is mystifying me to me.

In a best-case scenario, what did Woody think would happen? MM would come in and fill the 3-spot and shoot well. Ok, I could see that. But neither Newton nor Cupps were great high school shooters.

Did Woody think that TG was suddenly going to become a great volume shooter? I mean, he shot better from 3 last year, but he did it while shooting very little. I can't believe that Coach thought that he was suddenly going to become a volume shooter.

Did he think that Gunn was suddenly going to become that guy? I just can't figure out why he didn't bring in a another 2-guard who was a strong volume shooter. He had to see the problem there, right? We haven't had that for years. He obviously thought he had that in Tamar, but that didn't work out, and he left in plenty of time to find a replacement.

I think he tried....Knecht in particular. But...swing and miss.
Hell right now, Bates would probably help. He would have had a lot of opportunity this year to finally get over the hump at IU. He started slow this season, but currently averaging close to 10ppg and shooting very well, including over 50% from 3 and over 90% from the line. We'd kill for that right now from a 2 guard.

 

[IUNorth]

I think he tried....Knecht in particular. But...swing and miss.
Hell right now, Bates would probably help. He would have had a lot of opportunity this year to finally get over the hump at IU. He started slow this season, but currently averaging close to 10ppg and shooting very well, including over 50% from 3 and over 90% from the line. We'd kill for that right now from a 2 guard.

But would he be doing that in Woody's system? I kinda doubt it. Its not ALL that we have guys that can't shoot or make plays. I'd love to have Bates back. But lets not forget who he was when we had an NBA lottery pick guard, and one of the best bigs in IU history, by his side...and garnering most of our opponents defensive focus.

 

[FormerRevMatt]

But would he be doing that in Woody's system? I kinda doubt it. Its not ALL that we have guys that can't shoot or make plays. I'd love to have Bates back. But lets not forget who he was when we had an NBA lottery pick guard, and one of the best bigs in IU history, by his side...and garnering most of our opponents defensive focus.

That's always the million dollar question - would he be doing it here? I would guess not, though. He had all sorts of opportunities and it just didn't work out. Sometimes a change of scenery or, more importantly, a new system, can make all the difference.

I honestly haven't seen Tamar play this year. I looked up his stats the other day and saw that he was shooting like 55% from three and 92% from the line. Crazy. I'm happy for the kid, though. He always seemed like a really good guy. Glad things are working out for him.

 

[ams66]

Semantics, what’s he actually doing about it?

It's a good question, I don't know, I don't think any of us have the privilege of attending practices to see what drills he runs or what else they do.

 

[BleedinGold]

I wonder if Purdue has had a 15-point loss in the last 9 years. if so, not many I would bet. losing road games happens not being competitive is systematic.

In the last nine years, Purdue has had nine 15-point (or greater) losses under Matt Painter. Six were on the road, one was at a neutral site, and two were at home. All of them were conference games except the 2017 loss to Kansas in the S16.

The biggest culprit was the COVID year, in which Purdue would likely not make the tournament. In four of those nine years, Purdue didn't lose a game by 15 or more.

2023-2024
(none)

2022-2023
(none)

2021-2022
2/10/22 @UM 58-82

2020-2021
1/22/21 UM 53-70
12/22/20 @ Iowa 55-70

2019-2020
2/15/20 @OSU 52-68
1/21/20 Illini 62-79
1/5/20 @Illini 37-63

2018-2019
1/8/19 @MSU 59-77
12/1/18 @UM 57-76

2017-2018
(none)

2016-2017
3/23/17 1-seed Kansas (neutral) vs 4-seed Purdue 66-98

2015-2016
(none)

 

[dbmhoosier]

Is he wrong about anything other than that we should've hired him after Sampson of course? Can't argue with anything else.

 

[Bucket Getter]

My biggest question is: Does Woody hate other teams' players clowning on his team? Nebraska (of all f-ing teams) running up and down laughing, lobbing, shooting deep 3s is unbelievable. Auburn did it and Uconn did it. Do our players have any pride left after getting humiliated like that?

 

[kmathum]

Also who is Woody bouncing ideas off in his coaching room? Woody has very little experience running a college bball program and his staff is very young and inexperienced as well. Rumor is Fife was ran off because Woody didn’t want to hear his ideas and thoughts. Also Matta not around anymore either.

When Matta and fife left that was a major red flag. Those two should have been hired to run our program instead of what we have now .

 

[RegionHoosiers]

Is he wrong about anything other than that we should've hired him after Sampson of course? Can't argue with anything else.

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He ain't wrong this time.

 

[GeorgeStrait IU]

The press conference was awful. He seemed distant and disinterested. Besides calling out his guards I thought he was going to fall asleep.

This year and the next two are going to be like watching a train wreck in slow motion if he doesn’t figure it out quick or retire.

Yep. He has figured out his retirement years wifh ease now. Hopefully a mutual agreement/adjustment will be made at the end of the season. There really is no upside with this hire currently.

 

[iu2win]

Last season Woody had the team making quick passes and moving the ball to take advantage when the opponents double-teamed under the basket. This year it seems IU dribbles directly into doubles and forces bad shots; it seems to me TG even dribbled right into a trio of Neb players and lost the ball instead of finding one of the two IU players who were wide open. It just doesn't make sense how low the basketball IQ can get during games with this IU team. That is fundamental basketball and fundamental instruction falls directly on the coaches. When it happens once it is simply a bad play by one player but when it happens over and over in the same game . . . well . . . that's coaching.

 

[FormerRevMatt]

Is he wrong about anything other than that we should've hired him after Sampson of course? Can't argue with anything else.

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Wow. That was brutal. Dakich has just become a bitter old dude these days.

 

[dbmhoosier]

Wow. That was brutal. Dakich has just become a bitter old dude these days.

He ain't wrong.

 

[SRThoosier]

Top Indiana high school kids have no interest in playiing for IU. Coaching is dreadful. Woodson makes Hoiberg look great.

 

[YOTHN]

Say what? They had several players better than our guys. I understand the sentiment that overall, we have players who are more talented on paper, but they had several guys who were much better players than the guys we had on the floor. Players vs ratings. Our guys had more stars, theirs played better and harder.

No, they had better coached players. Our roster construction is bleeding with the lack of shooters but if you give a great coach this type of talent, they can find high end success even with this roster.

When a team plays cohesive and fundamentally sound, the individual pieces look brighter simply due to the function that comes with success. You would be surprised how much better a player looks when the team is able to create wide open shots and allow for defenders to be more aggressive due to confidence in their split-second decision making.

The best way to get long-term stability in a program is for a coach to find a way to have their players learn and fully buy-in to a system just long enough to get a taste of what comes along with the logic, 'all boats rise with the tide'. Unselfish, fundamentally sound play will obviously result in team success, but it will also result in every player improving their individual professional aspirations. We look like a team that is HIGHLY unsure of what they should be doing out there. The only thing IU is often playing off of is their talent alone which is very Archie-like.

 

[kmathum]

No, they had better coached players. Our roster construction is bleeding with the lack of shooters but if you give a great coach this type of talent, they can find high end success even with this roster.

When a team plays cohesive and fundamentally sound, the individual pieces look brighter simply due to the function that comes with success. You would be surprised how much better a player looks when the team is able to create wide open shots and allow for defenders to be more aggressive due to confidence in their split-second decision making.

The best way to get long-term stability in a program is for a coach to find a way to have their players learn and fully buy-in to a system just long enough to get a taste of what comes along with the logic, 'all boats rise with the tide'. Unselfish, fundamentally sound play will obviously result in team success, but it will also result in every player improving their individual professional aspirations. We look like a team that is HIGHLY unsure of what they should be doing out there. The only thing IU is often playing off of is their talent alone which is very Archie-like.

Pretty obvious. We have the talent but not the coaching.

 

[mrhighlife]

It's defense and rebounding. It's not god damned rocket science. Woody doesn't have consistent shooters? Ok. That is what it is. But he does have a roster full of highly athletic and highly recruited bball players. They should be able to rebound and play defense at a high level. They did it before the arrived at IU or they wouldn't be there.

 

[RegionHoosiers]

It's defense and rebounding. It's not god damned rocket science. Woody doesn't have consistent shooters? Ok. That is what it is. But he does have a roster full of highly athletic and highly recruited bball players. They should be able to rebound and play defense at a high level. They did it before the arrived at IU or they wouldn't be there.

Agree. Shooting was far from the biggest problem yesterday.

 

[bsmitty08]

Pretty obvious. We have the talent but not the coaching.

In spots we have talent. We lack talent in our back court

 

[Hoosierific]

Almost seemed like a man about ready to crack. I think if we keep losing he'll soon have an "I'm not the man for the job" moment.

One can only hope

 

[stollcpa]

Armond Hill is the only one in his ear.

He’s never in his ear during a game. He looks pissed off and bored during games.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

Is he wrong about anything other than that we should've hired him after Sampson of course? Can't argue with anything else.

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Very telling

 

[Courtsensetwo]

Agree. Shooting was far from the biggest problem yesterday.

And will continue to be. MM will come and go.

 

[trailrunner]

Pretty obvious. We have the talent but not the coaching.

I feel sorry for these players. The talent is there to do well. And I believe they would play hard and hustle if the coaching staff had a clue about teaching fundamentals, offensive philosophy, shooting free throws, using basketball intelligence, substituting appropriately, defensive positioning and stance, rebounding, etc. With a coach like Samson or Self the results are different.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

I feel sorry for these players. The talent is there to do well. And I believe they would play hard and hustle if the coaching staff had a clue about teaching fundamentals, offensive philosophy, shooting free throws, using basketball intelligence, substituting appropriately, defensive positioning and stance, rebounding, etc. With a coach like Samson or Self the results are different.

Woody need’s assistant coaches. He has assistant recruiters.

It shows

 

[mrhighlife]

I feel sorry for these players. The talent is there to do well. And I believe they would play hard and hustle if the coaching staff had a clue about teaching fundamentals, offensive philosophy, shooting free throws, using basketball intelligence, substituting appropriately, defensive positioning and stance, rebounding, etc. With a coach like Samson or Self the results are different.

They play hard. It's the one area Woody actually sort of excels at coaching wise. They are just always lost on defense and don't block out worth a shit.

 

[bailey777]

When Matta and fife left that was a major red flag. Those two should have been hired to run our program instead of what we have now .

Those wo were hired to calm people's nerves on the Woodson hire because most people didnt get the hire.. He was supposed to be surrounded by two great bbal minds. It only lasted a year.

 

[Tru2Irish]

With all his NBA style and mentality, he needs to look in the mirror and say," You're fired !!". Haven't seen IU teams play poorer defense than the ones Woodson coaches ,especially on the perimeter.

 

[kkott]

aven't seen IU teams play poorer defense than the ones Woodson coaches ,

ISU '17 says hi!

 

[hoosier_est_1984]

Where have alll those gone who have overly defended Woodson?
Where are they at?
After skimm8ng hru comments I dont see anyone defending him on this thread. Not one. Yet not but a few weeks ago their were more ppl defending him than not.
What were their names?

 

[mrhighlife]

With all his NBA style and mentality, he needs to look in the mirror and say," You're fired !!". Haven't seen IU teams play poorer defense than the ones Woodson coaches ,especially on the perimeter.

Archie's teams played worse perimeter defense and worse defense in general.

 

[IUNorth]

Where have alll those gone who have overly defended Woodson?
Where are they at?
After skimm8ng hru comments I dont see anyone defending him on this thread. Not one. Yet not but a few weeks ago their were more ppl defending him than not.
What were their names?

Best guess is some are conflicted...but most are annoyed and don't want to talk/type about it.

To each their own. Its a fan message board. I use it as a place to vent, more than anything. But I hope to be able to come on here and post about improvements after the OSU game. Hopefully X will be a little better, we're going to need him against Thornton.

 

[bsmitty08]

Those wo were hired to calm people's nerves on the Woodson hire because most people didnt get the hire.. He was supposed to be surrounded by two great bbal minds. It only lasted a year.

Woody didn’t like being challenged is what I have heard. The other two didn’t agree with his philosophy either

 

[mohoosier]

Where have alll those gone who have overly defended Woodson?
Where are they at?
After skimm8ng hru comments I dont see anyone defending him on this thread. Not one. Yet not but a few weeks ago their were more ppl defending him than not.
What were their names?

@Aloha Hoosier is over on the premie side laying down bets 😂😂😂

 

[bsmitty08]

@Aloha Hoosier is over on the premie side laying down bets 😂😂😂

I’m still waiting to watch and learn

 

[.Gerdis]

I’m still waiting to watch and learn

Either a troll, a relative, or employee (imho).