First UK. Then France. Now Germany. Canada on the brink.

[crazed_hoosier2]

Governments around the Western world are dropping like flies.

UK’s Tories faced the largest defeat in their history a few months ago.

France had an election in July that had to rely on a very fractious minority coalition to form a government under PM Michel Barnier. It lost a no confidence vote a couple weeks ago to become the first government ousted by Parliament since 1962. So it lasted about 5 months.

Now Olaf Scholz has also lost a no confidence vote in the Bundestag, setting up elections in a couple months.

Rumors are flying that Justin Trudeau is going to resign as Canada’s PM imminently.

Oh, and Donald Trump will be taking the oath of office here in about a month…assuming he isn’t tripped up by Section 3 of the 14th Amendment disqualifying former government officials who have engaged in insurrection from holding public office.

Whew boy.

And this is in addition to the Assad regime falling in Damascus, Israel wiping out Hamas and Hezbollah and hitting targets in Iran, South Korea declaring martial law, a war in Ukraine that seems likely to either lead to territorial gains for Russia or escalation beyond the current theater. Anything else?

I see a lot of people cheering all this on social media. “Down with globalism!” and all that vapid palaver.

I myself am a tad bit freaked out about so much political instability and chaos in the Western world happening in such quick succession. Maybe it’ll all come to naught. Maybe it will lead to something better.

But all we know is that a lot things are in motion.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

I myself am a tad bit freaked out about so much political instability and chaos in the Western world happening in such quick succession. Maybe it’ll all come to naught. Maybe it will lead to something better.

The common denominator seems to be that governments are increasingly not following the will of the people. It seems as though the government always knows best.

 

[The Original Happy Goat]

Governments around the Western world are dropping like flies.

UK’s Tories faced the largest defeat in their history a few months ago.

France had an election in July that had to rely on a very fractious minority coalition to form a government under PM Michel Barnier. It lost a no confidence vote a couple weeks ago to become the first government ousted by Parliament since 1962. So it lasted about 5 months.

Now Olaf Scholz has also lost a no confidence vote in the Bundestag, setting up elections in a couple months.

Rumors are flying that Justin Trudeau is going to resign as Canada’s PM imminently.

Oh, and Donald Trump will be taking the oath of office here in about a month…assuming he isn’t tripped up by Section 3 of the 14th Amendment disqualifying former government officials who have engaged in insurrection from holding public office.

Whew boy.

And this is in addition to the Assad regime falling in Damascus, Israel wiping out Hamas and Hezbollah and hitting targets in Iran, South Korea declaring martial law, a war in Ukraine that seems likely to either lead to territorial gains for Russia or escalation beyond the current theater. Anything else?

I see a lot of people cheering all this on social media. “Down with globalism!” and all that vapid palaver.

I myself am a tad bit freaked out about so much political instability and chaos in the Western world happening in such quick succession. Maybe it’ll all come to naught. Maybe it will lead to something better.

But all we know is that a lot things are in motion.

Opposition parties winning elections counts as instability now?

 

[IUCrazy2]

Opposition parties winning elections counts as instability now?

Particularly in France. That was a marriage of convenience at the time. The fact they are having problems holding that coalition together isn't too big of a shock.

 

[larsIU]

The common denominator seems to be that governments are increasingly not following the will of the people.

Well, we voted them in there now didn't we?

Seems like a lot of the world are going through replacing COVID leadership with new leadership proving again how difficult that situation was to navigate.

If half the people hate you and half the people love you it's easy to get caught in a trap of "not following the will of hte people." Did hte left take it to far in the US? Probably and they paid for it with this election. Oh well.

 

[snarlcakes]

Governments around the Western world are dropping like flies.

UK’s Tories faced the largest defeat in their history a few months ago.

France had an election in July that had to rely on a very fractious minority coalition to form a government under PM Michel Barnier. It lost a no confidence vote a couple weeks ago to become the first government ousted by Parliament since 1962. So it lasted about 5 months.

Now Olaf Scholz has also lost a no confidence vote in the Bundestag, setting up elections in a couple months.

Rumors are flying that Justin Trudeau is going to resign as Canada’s PM imminently.

Oh, and Donald Trump will be taking the oath of office here in about a month…assuming he isn’t tripped up by Section 3 of the 14th Amendment disqualifying former government officials who have engaged in insurrection from holding public office.

Whew boy.

And this is in addition to the Assad regime falling in Damascus, Israel wiping out Hamas and Hezbollah and hitting targets in Iran, South Korea declaring martial law, a war in Ukraine that seems likely to either lead to territorial gains for Russia or escalation beyond the current theater. Anything else?

I see a lot of people cheering all this on social media. “Down with globalism!” and all that vapid palaver.

I myself am a tad bit freaked out about so much political instability and chaos in the Western world happening in such quick succession. Maybe it’ll all come to naught. Maybe it will lead to something better.

But all we know is that a lot things are in motion.

The 4th turning? I think Covid was the turning point. Balajis had a great thread on X about the 20th century trend was centralization and the 21st century will be decentralization. Sorry, I couldn’t find it, I’ll add it if I do.

It’s been about 80 years since WWII, which seems to the shelf life of our money. All of the debt and centralization seems to be catching up to us and people are worse off even though Governments have never been larger. I saw in a podcast a couple weeks ago, Americans under the age of 30 are the first generation worse off than their parents. The money is broken. Speaking of France, there might be some hope. Oh and she’s a doll

 

[The Original Happy Goat]

Particularly in France. That was a marriage of convenience at the time. The fact they are having problems holding that coalition together isn't too big of a shock.

It's not a shock at all. It's also nothing to get antsy about. I don't understand the theme of your OP at all.

 

[BradStevens]

Governments around the Western world are dropping like flies.

UK’s Tories faced the largest defeat in their history a few months ago.

France had an election in July that had to rely on a very fractious minority coalition to form a government under PM Michel Barnier. It lost a no confidence vote a couple weeks ago to become the first government ousted by Parliament since 1962. So it lasted about 5 months.

Now Olaf Scholz has also lost a no confidence vote in the Bundestag, setting up elections in a couple months.

Rumors are flying that Justin Trudeau is going to resign as Canada’s PM imminently.

Oh, and Donald Trump will be taking the oath of office here in about a month…assuming he isn’t tripped up by Section 3 of the 14th Amendment disqualifying former government officials who have engaged in insurrection from holding public office.

Whew boy.

And this is in addition to the Assad regime falling in Damascus, Israel wiping out Hamas and Hezbollah and hitting targets in Iran, South Korea declaring martial law, a war in Ukraine that seems likely to either lead to territorial gains for Russia or escalation beyond the current theater. Anything else?

I see a lot of people cheering all this on social media. “Down with globalism!” and all that vapid palaver.

I myself am a tad bit freaked out about so much political instability and chaos in the Western world happening in such quick succession. Maybe it’ll all come to naught. Maybe it will lead to something better.

But all we know is that a lot things are in motion.

Palaver. Nice.

Commentators I listen to have been talking about this for a while now. Ive heard a few say that in democracies, most elections are decided based on how people are doing/feeling at the time. Coming out of COVID and world-wide inflation, it shouldn’t be surprising that elections are against incumbents and for whomever challenged them.

 

[DontComeAroundMuch]

Well, we voted them in there now didn't we?

Seems like a lot of the world are going through replacing COVID leadership with new leadership proving again how difficult that situation was to navigate.

If half the people hate you and half the people love you it's easy to get caught in a trap of "not following the will of hte people." Did hte left take it to far in the US? Probably and they paid for it with this election. Oh well.

A top down biomedical security state and fire hosing trillions into the economy on pet projects is definitely too far.

Petty authoritarianism and unprecedented spending is the kind of thing that’s easy to criticize with the benefit of hindsight. How could they have known at the time?

 

[larsIU]

A top down biomedical security state and fire hosing trillions into the economy on pet projects is definitely too far.

Petty authoritarianism and unprecedented spending is the kind of thing that’s easy to criticize with the benefit of hindsight. How could they have known at the time?

Tough to say in the moment.

YOu mention petty. I agree. Most of our elected officials at this point could best be described as petty. Shortsighted. Iliberal, etc.

We have massive issues in this country right now which could be solved by good government. And by good government I also mean one that knows when to say "no." Good Luck.

 

[IUCrazy2]

It's not a shock at all. It's also nothing to get antsy about. I don't understand the theme of your OP at all.

Wasn't my OP 😉

 

[snarlcakes]

Wasn't my OP 😉

All of you crazies look the same to GOAT.

 

[BradStevens]

The 4th turning? I think Covid was the turning point. Balajis had a great thread on X about the 20th century trend was centralization and the 21st century will be decentralization. Sorry, I couldn’t find it, I’ll add it if I do.

It’s been about 80 years since WWII, which seems to the shelf life of our money. All of the debt and centralization seems to be catching up to us and people are worse off even though Governments have never been larger. I saw in a podcast a couple weeks ago, Americans under the age of 30 are the first generation worse off than their parents. The money is broken. Speaking of France, there might be some hope. Oh and she’s a doll

View embedded media

More pics of Sarah Knafo, please.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

Opposition parties winning elections counts as instability now?

With so much turnover happening at once… possibly.

And it’s not only that. It’s the other situations - such as in SK and the Middle East.

And this is first time in 60 years that a French government has been NC’d by Parliament. In the present case, I have real doubts about their center holding. Barnier was undone by both the far right and the far left.

 

[larsIU]

Barnier was undone by both the far right and the far left.

Hopefully we Americans can learn before this happens to us.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Well, we voted them in there now didn't we?

Seems like a lot of the world are going through replacing COVID leadership with new leadership proving again how difficult that situation was to navigate.

If half the people hate you and half the people love you it's easy to get caught in a trap of "not following the will of hte people." Did hte left take it to far in the US? Probably and they paid for it with this election. Oh well.

Palaver. Nice.

Commentators I listen to have been talking about this for a while now. Ive heard a few say that in democracies, most elections are decided based on how people are doing/feeling at the time. Coming out of COVID and world-wide inflation, it shouldn’t be surprising that elections are against incumbents and for whomever challenged them.

I think you are hanging too many problems on COVID. COVID didn’t cause political leadership to suck. Instead, COVID exposed how much political leadership sucks.

As this election shows, we just don’t have quality accomplished candidates and office holders. For every Dirksen or Humphrey, we have 2 or 3 Harris’ and Trumps. We will never have another Ike. Family estangement over Trump or other political leadership is a regular occurrence and was unheard of decades ago.

Seems like we don’t vote for candidates any longer, we vote for a package created by media, consultants, and influencers. As a result we get heavy doses of arrogance and elite driven “intelligence “ that supposedly knows more than all of us.

These people even sold Biden as energetic and competent. Many finally knew they were lying to us. I think we are seeing the results now. Hopefully the worm has turned.

 

[The Original Happy Goat]

Wasn't my OP 😉

You guys need different colors.

 

[larsIU]

I think you are hanging too many problems on COVID. COVID didn’t cause political leadership to suck. Instead, COVID exposed how much political leadership sucks.

As this election shows, we just don’t have quality accomplished candidates and office holders. For every Dirksen or Humphrey, we have 2 or 3 Harris’ and Trumps. We will never have another Ike. Family estangement over Trump or other political leadership is a regular occurrence and was unheard of decades ago.

Seems like we don’t vote for candidates any longer, we vote for a package created by media, consultants, and influencers. As a result we get heavy doses of arrogance and elite driven “intelligence “ that supposedly knows more than all of us.

These people even sold Biden as energetic and competent. Many finally knew they were lying to us. I think we are seeing the results now. Hopefully the worm has turned.

I think we will continue to see a decentralization of political power from Washington to the states but I don't think that means the good things the "smaller government" folks want to be true will be true because of it.

to be sure, I don't mind this trend though I still believe the federal government needs to exsit to solve national problems like defense, commerce/trade disputes, federal regulation of consumer products that cross state lines or are imported form other countries....

And healthcare. Clealry we have a long way to go.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

I think we will continue to see a decentralization of political power from Washington to the states but I don't think that means the good things the "smaller government" folks want to be true will be true because of it.

to be sure, I don't mind this trend though I still believe the federal government needs to exsit to solve national problems like defense, commerce/trade disputes, federal regulation of consumer products that cross state lines or are imported form other countries....

And healthcare. Clealry we have a long way to go.

Solving problems at the federal level empowers the arrogance and superiority of federal officials. I go back and forth about whether health care should be a national or state level solution. I do know at the time of Obamacare Colorado had a good system for pre-existing coverage. That got no traction in the debate. We had a dozen or more MD’s in Congress at the time and Obama never convened that group to address the issue. Probably because most were republicans. Instead Obamacare was a product of Obama having “figured it all out”.

 

[The Original Happy Goat]

Solving problems at the federal level empowers the arrogance and superiority of federal officials. I go back and forth about whether health care should be a national or state level solution. I do know at the time of Obamacare Colorado had a good system for pre-existing coverage. That got no traction in the debate. We had a dozen or more MD’s in Congress at the time and Obama never convened that group to address the issue. Probably because most were republicans. Instead Obamacare was a product of Obama having “figured it all out”.

LOL. Obama is just a Bond villain to you, isn't he?

 

[larsIU]

Instead Obamacare was a product of Obama having “figured it all out”.

the ACA is a series of compromises for political expediency and, as such, has suffered because of it.

I tihink Obama should have been MORE heavy handed but he's a politician after all and need to get re-elected

 

[CO. Hoosier]

LOL. Obama is just a Bond villain to you, isn't he?

Well . . . . .yeah.

We are paying now for his solution to the school to prison pipeline.
He legitimized black anti-cop feelings
He helped screw up Syria with his red line nonsense
He was 180 degrees wrong about Iran.
His world apology tour for our history of slavery was the wrong message in the wrong place at the wrong time.
He couldn’t negotiate a 2010 budget and spending deal.
He couldn’t read and understand the Citizens United opinion.
A missed his post-Sandy Hook moment for meaningful gun legislation

And I’m just getting warmed up.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

the ACA is a series of compromises for political expediency and, as such, has suffered because of it.

I tihink Obama should have been MORE heavy handed but he's a politician after all and need to get re-elected

IIRC, the biggest compromise was about abortion and funding. I’m sure there were others but were there major compromises?

 

[BradStevens]

You guys need different colors.

They need avatars.

crazed hoosier 2:

IU Crazed:

 

[twenty02]

IIRC, the biggest compromise was about abortion and funding. I’m sure there were others but were there major compromises?

Public option vs no public option
Federal exchanges vs state level exchanges

The latter, more conservative option won out in both cases.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Well . . . . .yeah.

We are paying now for his solution to the school to prison pipeline.
He legitimized black anti-cop feelings
He helped screw up Syria with his red line nonsense
He was 180 degrees wrong about Iran.
His world apology tour for our history of slavery was the wrong message in the wrong place at the wrong time.
He couldn’t negotiate a 2010 budget and spending deal.
He couldn’t read and understand the Citizens United opinion.
A missed his post-Sandy Hook moment for meaningful gun legislation

And I’m just getting warmed up.

DING DING DING DING CLASS IS IN SESSION

THE AMERICAN PRESIDENCY
Tues: 1:00 - 2:00

 

[BradStevens]

the ACA is a series of compromises for political expediency and, as such, has suffered because of it.

I tihink Obama should have been MORE heavy handed but he's a politician after all and need to get re-elected

I'm pretty sure Obama said at the time he didn't have it all figured out, nobody did, but he thought the ACA was an incremental step in the right direction, even with the compromises.

 

[larsIU]

I'm pretty sure Obama said at the time he didn't have it all figured out, nobody did, but he thought the ACA was an incremental step in the right direction, even with the compromises.

I'm willing to concede much to the states in order to realize the benefits of a single payor insurance scheme administered by the federal government.

Abortion - keep it
Regulations - let the states decide unless the feds need to step in to mediate disputes or the commerce crosses state lines.

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

You guys need different colors.

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

They need avatars.

People actually use that shit? Clogs up half of a thread. That was the first thing I blocked on the "new" Rivals 15 years ago.

 

[BradStevens]

People actually use that shit? Clogs up half of a thread. That was the first thing I blocked on the "new" Rivals 15 years ago.

By avatars, I meant profile pics.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

They need avatars.

crazed hoosier 2:

IU Crazed:

Fair.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

I'm pretty sure Obama said at the time he didn't have it all figured out, nobody did, but he thought the ACA was an incremental step in the right direction, even with the compromises.

I recall him saying something to the effect that since he thought he adopted some GOP ideas that he indeed came up with a plan that would end the ongoing political debate.

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

I wonder if this is part of the problem in Germany