First discharges from the military for refusing COVID vaccines . . .

[mcmurtry66]

So was it the checks?

Drug overdoses an unintended consequence of COVID stimulus payments, experts say

Substance abuse has surged across the U.S. as a result of coronavirus-induced isolation, but there is also a correlation between stimulus payments and overdoses, experts say.

www.foxnews.com

"We definitely believe that there’s a correlation between the recent stimulus checks that were sent out and the overdoses we’re seeing right now," Lauren Cummings, executive director of the Northern Shenandoah Valley Substance Abuse Coalition, told Fox News. "We saw an increase in overdoses after the first round of stimulus payouts. We annually see an increase in overdoses following tax returns."​

Damn, those tax refunds can be deadly.

It can certainly be both

Should make for a great Valentine's Day. Psaki said double checks for February Woot Woot.
Omnicron will become the new rationale for BBB. Yawn.

 

[Stuffshot]

Guessing basic training accidents will kill or harm more military members than the Covid vaccines.

However, there is lots of misinformation being circulated which could cause even a Marine to be skeptical.

Afterall, it isn't always easy to separate facts from fiction. Sacrificing a career and retirement benefits has to a choice only a firmly convinced person would choose.

"lots of misinformation being circulated"
"it isn't always easy to separate facts from fiction"

Nonetheless, in the same post, you concluded that refusing to get vaccinated is "a choice only a firmly convinced person would choose."

Those aren't very good reasons to excuse the non-vaxxed.

 

[ORG]

I haven't had to process anyone to date. I had a few reluctant to take the vaccine that finally did it and I have a couple who've submitted exemption requests. I think the exemptions will be denied and they will get one more chance to get vaccinated. If they refuse we'll have to initiate the process to separate them for disobeying a lawful order which I don't want to do but will have to do. They're both over 10 years into their careers and lifers and I hope they don't throw that away due to rampant misinformation.

i had heard that although the military has a process for requesting an exception, NONE have been granted. Has anyone heard differently?

 

[stollcpa]

Guessing basic training accidents will kill or harm more military members than the Covid vaccines.

However, there is lots of misinformation being circulated which could cause even a Marine to be skeptical.

Afterall, it isn't always easy to separate facts from fiction. Sacrificing a career and retirement benefits has to a choice only a firmly convinced person would choose.

We don’t know facts from fiction. And much of the misinformation starts with the government.

 

[DANC]

So was it the checks?

Drug overdoses an unintended consequence of COVID stimulus payments, experts say

Substance abuse has surged across the U.S. as a result of coronavirus-induced isolation, but there is also a correlation between stimulus payments and overdoses, experts say.

www.foxnews.com

"We definitely believe that there’s a correlation between the recent stimulus checks that were sent out and the overdoses we’re seeing right now," Lauren Cummings, executive director of the Northern Shenandoah Valley Substance Abuse Coalition, told Fox News. "We saw an increase in overdoses after the first round of stimulus payouts. We annually see an increase in overdoses following tax returns."​

Damn, those tax refunds can be deadly.

Yeah, let's make jokes over overdoses.

You don't beleive it? What's your theory?

 

[hoot1]

We don’t know facts from fiction. And much of the misinformation starts with the government.

Stoll, in my case "the government" consisted of local, state, and federal government.

On top of that, there were employers and merchants following various courses of actions along with choices being made by other governments across the land.

This left me with deciding a personal course of response to the pandemic from all the choices available.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

i had heard that although the military has a process for requesting an exception, NONE have been granted. Has anyone heard differently?

I don't know if any have been approved. I do know that the Navy hasn't approved any religious exemptions from the many vaccinations that officers and Sailors are required to take in over 7 years. I doubt there will be any religious exemptions approved for COVID vaccinations. As far as medical exemptions go there have been few of them approved over the years as well, probably double digits at most, and nearly 100 percent of the medical exemptions are temporary so when whatever medical condition they have passed they had to take all required shots and vaccinations like their shipmates did.

Nearly 99 percent of the Navy has already been vaccinated and the rest will most likely be vaccinated or administratively separated for refusing to obey a lawful order. If I was still active duty, I'd give that order with a clear conscious and I'd process those who disobeyed for separation. I would enjoy doing that, as I didn't enjoy processing those I have separated (for the most part - there were definitely some I enjoyed kicking out), but I'd also do that with a clear conscious.

 

[iuwclurker]

It’s just a body. If you don’t take control of it, it will take control of you. People afraid of a simple vaccine have long since become controlled by their body.

Pity them.

 

[sglowrider]

This is what is so ridiculous about the media and the Omicron variant. As far as I've been able to determine, the symptoms are a mild common cold for 1 day. Scratchy throat. Runny nose. Achiness. In fact in London they think most people who think they have the common cold probably have Omicron.

Londoners with cold symptoms more likely to have Covid, says expert

Professor behind symptom tracker app says Omicron variant causes headaches, sore throat and runny nose

www.theguardian.com

One person has died from Omicron as far as I've read. One in the entire world. So, just because the Omicron variant doesn't seem very responsive to the vaccines, Delta IS responsive to the vaccine and that's what's killing Americans at the rate of a 9/11 every other day.

The "media" is being very irresponsible by fanning the flames of Omicron and then telling them the vaccines don't work against it. It's only going to make people who are reluctant to get the vaccine even more reluctant. And that's going to kill people.

Omicron may be less severe in South Africa. That may not be the case for the U.S.​

 

[Mas-sa-suta]

People gripe about paying $5 for a pill and then will go pay $5 or $7 for a darn greeting card. I would highly suspect that there's a lot more research in making the pill than the greeting card. 😁

So you know people who buy 30-60 greeting cards a month every month?

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

Soldiers and sailors willingly risk their life through training and combat, and take vaccines by the dozen from duty station to duty station, but this one is different.

This issue - more than most - shows how this crap was politicized to the detriment of the nation. Fighting over Trump/anti-Trump and Covid crap will go down as one the most ridiculous political battles in history.

Like the fight over fluoride and polio vaccines, the future will look back at us and wonder how we survived.

 

[dbmhoosier]

Soldiers and sailors willingly risk their life through training and combat, and take vaccines by the dozen from duty station to duty station, but this one is different.

This issue - more than most - shows how this crap was politicized to the detriment of the nation. Fighting over Trump/anti-Trump and Covid crap will go down as one the most ridiculous political battles in history.

Like the fight over fluoride and polio vaccines, the future will look back at us and wonder how we survived.

What does Trump have to do with anti vax people? He's been pushing it as much as anyone. Told O'Reilly last night that he got the booster too.

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

that I've seen. 27 from the Air Force. Any of these yours @MrBing ?

Military Daily News

Daily updates of everything that you need know about what is going on in the military community and abroad including military gear and equipment, breaking news, international news and more.

www.military.com

how does @MrBing feel about these logos?

 

[stollcpa]

Hell, I think stoll has said his doctor (or maybe a doctor buddy) is a vaccine skeptic, but is convinced he's cured Covid with Ivermectin.

Yep my doc took ivermectin and reluctantly prescribed for a husband and wife that are freinds of mine. Both college grads and they credit ivermectin with reversing serious Covid symptoms and eventually curing them.

I’ve got a long list of clients and friends that credit ivermectin with helping get them over Covid. Of course I know professor shooter says it’s all bull.

 

[UncleMark]

I’ve got a long list of clients and friends that credit ivermectin with helping get them over Covid. Of course I know professor shooter says it’s all bull.

The makers of Ivermectin say the same thing.

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

The makers of Ivermectin say the same thing.

What do you mean?

 

[UncleMark]

What do you mean?

It's not a cure for Covid

 

[Bowlmania]

What do you mean?

Merck Statement on Ivermectin use During the COVID-19 Pandemic - Merck.com

KENILWORTH, N.J., Feb. 4, 2021 – Merck (NYSE: MRK), known as MSD outside the United States and Canada, today affirmed its position regarding use of ivermectin during the COVID-19 pandemic. Company scientists continue to carefully examine the findings of all available and emerging studies of...

www.merck.com

 

[stollcpa]

The makers of Ivermectin say the same thing.

It hasn’t hurt even one person I know that have taken it. In every case they think it helped.

I do know people that the booster has harmed.

As far as I know Trump never endorsed ivermectin use so I am not sure why libs have such an aversion to the drug.

Opinion | Why Is the FDA Attacking a Safe, Effective Drug?

Ivermectin is a promising Covid treatment and prophylaxis, but the agency is denigrating it.

www.wsj.com

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

Merck Statement on Ivermectin use During the COVID-19 Pandemic - Merck.com

KENILWORTH, N.J., Feb. 4, 2021 – Merck (NYSE: MRK), known as MSD outside the United States and Canada, today affirmed its position regarding use of ivermectin during the COVID-19 pandemic. Company scientists continue to carefully examine the findings of all available and emerging studies of...

www.merck.com

Pharma companies will be fined millions if they promote off-label indications of their approved products. Merck has to say this to be able to back away from any liability from off-label prescribing.

MDs are permitted to prescribe off-label if they believe there is a therapeutic benefit. Clearly many MDs think Ivermectin helps. I don’t know either way, but the Left’s need to have Ivermectin, which is a safe drug Rx’d to millions of human patients, to be blacklisted is pretty gross.

 

[outside shooter]

Ivermectin has been testing in numerous (more than 10) controlled, blinded, FDA-approved clinical trials.

We know with scientific certainty that it does not work. It did not beat placebo, ever.

People who have taken it might think that it worked. People who have taken placebo think that it worked, too. They want to get better, and do. Those people might be convinced that the Earth is flat, too, if it looks that way to them.

 

[stollcpa]

Pharma companies will be fined millions if they promote off-label indications of their approved products. Merck has to say this to be able to back away from any liability from off-label prescribing.

MDs are permitted to prescribe off-label if they believe there is a therapeutic benefit. Clearly many MDs think Ivermectin helps. I don’t know either way, but the Left’s need to have Ivermectin, which is a safe drug Rx’d to millions of human patients, is pretty gross.

A few months ago my IT contractor for my company was in my office after hours working on my desktop. He was in tears. His mother was near death from Covid and refused to go to the hospital. She wasn’t getting out of bed on her own. He and his brother got her an ivermectin prescription from Frontline Doctors online. No pharmacy would fill the script. I called my GF in Bloomington and she give me a telephone number for a family pharmacy in Bedford. My IT guy called. It was at closing time. The pharmacist agreed to stay after hours and my IT guy or his brother headed to Bedford an hour away. He got the prescription which was a heavy dose. His mom started that night. Late the next day she got out of bed and showered. At the end of the 5 day treatment his mom was symptom free. She’s well and living normally. You will never convince him, his mom or their family that ivermectin didn’t save her.

Did it? I don’t know. I do know other people with stories of their belief the drug worked.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Ivermectin has been testing in numerous (more than 10) controlled, blinded, FDA-approved clinical trials.

We know with scientific certainty that it does not work. It did not beat placebo, ever.

People who have taken it might think that it worked. People who have taken placebo think that it worked, too. They want to get better, and do. Those people might be convinced that the Earth is flat, too, if it looks that way to them.

Good. Then if it makes people feel better let them take it.

 

[outside shooter]

I do know other people with stories of their belief the drug worked.

I am sure that people like that were in the clinical trials, too.

The fact remains that half of them that were convinved that "the drug worked" had gotten a sugar pill as "the drug"

 

[outside shooter]

Good. Then if it makes people feel better let them take it.

or you could encourage medical practices that... you know... actually WORK.

 

[mcmurtry66]

or you could encourage medical practices that... you know... actually WORK.

I thought you wrote they got better? "They want to get better, and do." These are your words, no?

 

[hoot1]

A few months ago my IT contractor for my company was in my office after hours working on my desktop. He was in tears. His mother was near death from Covid and refused to go to the hospital. She wasn’t getting out of bed on her own. He and his brother got her an ivermectin prescription from Frontline Doctors online. No pharmacy would fill the script. I called my GF in Bloomington and she give me a telephone number for a family pharmacy in Bedford. My IT guy called. It was at closing time. The pharmacist agreed to stay after hours and my IT guy or his brother headed to Bedford an hour away. He got the prescription which was a heavy dose. His mom started that night. Late the next day she got out of bed and showered. At the end of the 5 day treatment his mom was symptom free. She’s well and living normally. You will never convince him, his mom or their family that ivermectin didn’t save her.

Did it? I don’t know. I do know other people with stories of their belief the drug worked.

Stoll, if the mother refused to go to the hospital how do we know for sure she had Covid?

Just wondering.

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

Ivermectin has been testing in numerous (more than 10) controlled, blinded, FDA-approved clinical trials.

We know with scientific certainty that it does not work. It did not beat placebo, ever.

People who have taken it might think that it worked. People who have taken placebo think that it worked, too. They want to get better, and do. Those people might be convinced that the Earth is flat, too, if it looks that way to them.

The encouragement for Ivermectin is due to its efficacy at high doses in vitro. There have been some studies, criticized by NIH for not being well-structured studies, that show efficacy in shortening symptom durations.

Ivermectin | COVID-19 Treatment Guidelines

Review clinical data on the use of ivermectin for the treatment of COVID-19.

www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov

But the Left, with their smug dismissal as horse medicine, again continue to push people towards alternative therapies like this.

 

[outside shooter]

Why link CDC advice from February 2021, when that advice is regularly updated and corrected as new trials are completed and as calls to poison control centers skyrocket?

HAN Archive - 00449 | Health Alert Network (HAN)

Health Alert Network (HAN). Provided by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

emergency.cdc.gov

 

[NPT]

What does Trump have to do with anti vax people? He's been pushing it as much as anyone. Told O'Reilly last night that he got the booster too.

View embedded media

That was last night... no telling what he'll say today.

 

[hookyIU1990]

Why link CDC advice from February 2021, when that advice is regularly updated and corrected as new trials are completed and as calls to poison control centers skyrocket?

HAN Archive - 00449 | Health Alert Network (HAN)

Health Alert Network (HAN). Provided by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

emergency.cdc.gov

So you post something 6 months newer that seems to run counter to your claim above about it's been determined that it doesn't work. Which also seems to corroborate your Science is Skepticism claim since there are multiple ongoing clinical trials. You like to have it both ways, as you've demonstrated in this thread, when it suits you. Either it doesn't work ar all as you claim, or we're not sure and need to continue trials as the article you posted seems to suggest

"Ivermectin is not authorized or approved by FDA for prevention or treatment of COVID-19. The National Institutes of Health’s (NIH) COVID-19 Treatment Guidelines Panel has also determined that there are currently insufficient data to recommend ivermectin for treatment of COVID-19. ClinicalTrials.govexternal icon has listings of ongoing clinical trials that might provide more information about these hypothesized uses in the future."

 

[mcmurtry66]

So you post something 6 months newer that seems to run counter to your claim above about it's been determined that it doesn't work. Which also seems to corroborate your Science is Skepticism claim since there are multiple ongoing clinical trials. You like to have it both ways, as you've demonstrated in this thread, when it suits you. Either it doesn't work ar all as you claim, or we're not sure and need to continue trials as the article you posted seems to suggest

"Ivermectin is not authorized or approved by FDA for prevention or treatment of COVID-19. The National Institutes of Health’s (NIH) COVID-19 Treatment Guidelines Panel has also determined that there are currently insufficient data to recommend ivermectin for treatment of COVID-19. ClinicalTrials.govexternal icon has listings of ongoing clinical trials that might provide more information about these hypothesized uses in the future."

And who gives a shit if people want to take it. Let em. I'm sure these are people who wouldn't be getting vaccinated anyway. I highly doubt it's a this or that scenario

 

[hookyIU1990]

And who gives a shit if people want to take it. Let em. I'm sure these are people who wouldn't be getting vaccinated anyway. I highly doubt it's a this or that scenario

It's probably not cut and dry. Very few things are in the real world. It's all the absolutes getting thrown about, when all you have to do is read what's being said in the details to know that there are no absolutes. The idea that some people people are miffed and at a loss as to why some other people don't trust what they're being told would be funny if it wasn't so serious to the well being of some at risk people.

The Omicron headlines and actions vs. the reality that's reported further down in the articles is this entire shit show in a nutshell.

 

[outside shooter]

Here's the most recent summary of the ivermectin studies, 30 Nov 2021:

Ivermectin use for Covid-19 treatment is not indicated nor approved by the FDA

Data for the effectiveness of ivermectin in treating Covid-19 have been questionable, with several studies deemed suspect.

www.pharmaceutical-technology.com

It appears to NOT work, in the controlled studies.

The NIH is not in the business of declaring that something dosn't work. They either recommend something be used, say that they cannot recommend that something be used at this time (the case here), or recommend that misuse of something can cause specific toxic side effects (also the case here).

 

[stollcpa]

Stoll, if the mother refused to go to the hospital how do we know for sure she had Covid?

Just wondering.

According to IT Guy home test. I realize they’re not always accurate.

 

[hookyIU1990]

According to IT Guy home test. I realize they’re not always accurate.

The home tests are much more likely to throw false negatives according to the info available from their websites, specifically Binax and Quickvue.

 

[hoot1]

The home tests are much more likely to throw false negatives according to the info available from their websites, specifically Binax and Quickvue.

Granted a false positive is not as likely as a false negative in home tests but it can happen.

IT Guy, for all I know, might not have enough samples out there to give us the same statistics as the more highly used home tests.

 

[toastedbread]

or you could encourage medical practices that... you know... actually WORK.

I am staunchly opposed to "right to try". Doctors who prescribe treatment that is not based on evidence should lose their licenses and face criminal prosecution. Otherwise, what's to prevent a physician from recommending the injection of cat piss. They are quickly turning medicine into quackery. It's beyond disgusting.

 

[Spartans9312]

I am staunchly opposed to "right to try". Doctors who prescribe treatment that is not based on evidence should lose their licenses and face criminal prosecution. Otherwise, what's to prevent a physician from recommending the injection of cat piss. They are quickly turning medicine into quackery. It's beyond disgusting.

Good grief

 

[hoot1]

I am staunchly opposed to "right to try". Doctors who prescribe treatment that is not based on evidence should lose their licenses and face criminal prosecution. Otherwise, what's to prevent a physician from recommending the injection of cat piss. They are quickly turning medicine into quackery. It's beyond disgusting.

Cat piss?

Have a dear friend who swears by dog saliva as a cure for skin ailments.