So what. If you were Flynn, would have you participated in the Mueller investigation? The FBI already tricked him once, why would he do it again?
FBI Raided Sen. Richard Burr's Home Tonight
- Thread starter DrHoops
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Flynn was doing Turkey’s dirty work and was operating as an unregistered foreign agent. If I were him, no, I wouldn’t participate in any investigation (assuming he’s not a complete moron (moran)).
How do you get tricked into lying? You either answer questions truthfully, you lie or you claim you don’t recall. Or you could plead the fifth and keep your mouth.
The FBI tricked him. That’s where the conspiracy theorists are now. Ok.
The National Security Advisor to POTUS was duped my a couple mid level FBI agents. Really?
Like i tell my kids, when you mess something up really badly, never say you did the best you could. It makes you look incompetent.
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You obviously have not been paying attention to anything new that has been released. Comey himself said it was a "close call" as to whether he lied. Here is the quote:
Comey decided the FBI should conduct the interview without telling either the DOJ or the White House. After the interview, FBI agents were uncertain that Flynn lied. Even Comey said, “I don’t know. I think there is an argument to be made he lied. It’s a close call.”
So, I will ask you. Does this pass reasonable doubt? The director stating it was a "close call"!! Is that good enough for you? A close call? Wreck a 3star Generals life over a close call, in a case that was already thoroughly investigated, determined nothing was there, and closed. Yet for the total FUBAR of the FBI at the time, remained open on a clerical error??
The 2 investigators, as reported by CNN 2 weeks after the interview, stated they did not feel he was lying.
https://edition.cnn.com/2017/02/16/...ed-to-pursue-charges-against-flynn/index.html
If he was "doing Turkey's dirty work", whatever that means, why were charges not brought up against him? If he was operating as an unregistered foreign agent (done all the time, BTW), why were charges not brought up against him?
Did he cop a plea? Yes, he did. So what, pleas are reached all the time, and sometimes have nothing to do with the original charge.
What about the part where Flynn stood in front of the judge and said he knew lying to the FBI was a crime and did it anyways?
That little detail is conveniently left out of every conspiracy theory around this whole thing. You can link 1,000 articles with 1,000,000 quotes and implying all the wrongdoing by every agency and member known to mankind. I’ll always point back to Flynn’s own words.
Republicans are simply retroactively applying the perjury trap bullshit to Flynn that they used as an excuse to keep Trump from ever testifying about anything. Your game is an old one.
I'm super confused by your narrative on this. So, Obama and Biden were the coach, but Comedy didn't tell them or the DOJ about the interview that is the center of what you are outraged about?
The FBI wrecked Flynn's life, but it was Trump that fired him from his job because he lied to the Vice-President about his conduct?
Plea agreements are reached all the time and you think they are reached because the accused pleads UP to conduct they didn't do? And this one was especially egregious because Flynn had done nothing wrong?
It feels like you are spinning around with changing complaints looking for something to be outraged about.
Conspiracy theories?? You mean like Trump being blackmailed by Russia. Trump conspiring with Russia. Carter Page being a Russian spy, or agent. Flynn, a decorated, 3 star general (sorry Ranger) being a Russian agent. Pee tapes in Russia. Flynn having girlfriends in London. You are right. Conspiracy theories indeed.
So, you saying no conspiracy theories are valid or only your conspiracy theories are valid?
I agree that most of that stuff about the Trump team was conspiracy theory garbage. Yet you continue to believe yours.
Hmmm....Yes, at 1 am in the morning, and Goat and Rock throwing question after question at me rapid fire, I am sure my responses were chaotic.
That being said, watch Greenwald in the Intercept link above. It takes time, 1:45. I will conclude that until new information arises or is revealed, I, generally believe, what he is saying. His conclusions are plausible to me. I do not consider him a partisan hack, like many journalists. He is left on some things and he is right on some things, although I would think that most people over the years would say that he is bias to the liberal side. If you are super ok with what happened to Flynn, that is your choice, and I have know reason to convince you otherwise.
I am not sure why mine is conspiracy..So, you saying no conspiracy theories are valid or only your conspiracy theories are valid?
I agree that most of that stuff about the Trump team was conspiracy theory garbage. Yet you continue to believe yours.
One question. Comey said it was a close call, as to whether Flynn was lying, after reviewing all evidence. Is that enough for you?
Do you ever give your wife an answer just to move on? Ok, 2 questions.
Do you have an actual response to Flynn’s own words, or do you just have more nonsense deflections?
If he was "doing Turkey's dirty work", whatever that means, why were charges not brought up against him? If he was operating as an unregistered foreign agent (done all the time, BTW), why were charges not brought up against him
THAT is what the plea deal was for. They went with the lesser charge (lying to the FBI) rather than prosecute him AND his son for their role in the Turkish Govt's attempt to kidnap Gulen. Do you really not KNOW that Flynn was involved in some shady shit? This is from 2019...
"U.S. prosecutors have cancelled plans to call President Donald Trump's former national security adviser Michael Flynn as a witness in a Virginia trial involving Flynn's former business partner — an abrupt change that raises questions about Flynn's co-operation with the government and its impact on his sentencing.
In court filings unsealed on Tuesday, federal prosecutors in Alexandria, Va., said they now plan to portray Flynn as a "co-conspirator" along with Bijan Rafiekian in a scheme to convince U.S. politicians to support Turkey's bid to extradite cleric Fethullah Gulen, a political dissident who lives in the United States.
Flynn's co-operation in Rafiekian's trial, which starts this month, could have an impact on how he is sentenced in his own case in a federal court in Washington, D.C."
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/court-documents-flynn-turkey-1.5205387
This whole right wing media blitz on Sullivan (CONVENIENTLY) ignores the fact that Sullivan addressed the Turkey situation at Flynn's plea. THAT is why he (Sullivan) expressed curiosity (and regret) as to why the Govt did not charge him with Treason. The Judge did NOT like the plead deal from the start- he thought it was too lenient... Judge Sullivan was outraged by Flynn, for much more than just lying to FBI agents...
"The judge also condemned Mr. Flynn for accepting payments from the government of Turkey, which sought his help in securing the extradition of the prominent Turkish cleric Fethullah Gulen, who lives in Pennsylvania and whom the Turkish government accuses of plotting a coup. Mr. Flynn has also pleaded guilty to failing to disclose his lobbying work to the Justice Department, as required.
“All along, you were an unregistered agent of a foreign country while serving as the National Security Adviser to the President of the United States. That undermines everything this flag over here stands for,” Judge Sullivan told Mr. Flynn. “Arguably, you sold your country out.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/13/us/politics/emmet-sullivan-flynn-judge.html
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My wife may be tough, but I'd consider questions from her to be quite different than questions from the FBI. In both cases, though, I question the wisdom of giving an answer just to move on. And I would expect the consequences to be appreciably different as well.
That said, my understanding of "a close call" is that it is something that could be decided in multiple directions. That they ultimately decided to pursue a different direction than you might like doesn't seem scandalous to me.
And, humbly, I think that's the problem people are having with your posts...me included.
Stop with the all facts and reality. Facts and reality ruin a perfectly good conspiracy theory.
You won’t reach IUJIM. This is all well known and established fact from the Flynn case that JIM is magically unaware of, yet he’s well versed in all this “what if” and “then why did” bullshit. You’re wasting your time.
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You haven’t brought jack shit to this board since you mysteriously arrived. Please go away.
I can’t reply to your post in kind right now. I will get back to you later.
I’ll mark you down as a “I don’t have shit to counter all these facts about Flynn, so I’m gonna piss and moan and deflect and...”
Good Lord.
I left the BB forum because it had become a useless sewer of mindless trolls. This place is heading there quickly.
I left the BB forum because it had become a useless sewer of mindless trolls. This place is heading there quickly.
That is all fine and good. Maybe Flynn was/is a total sleaze ball, and should be tried for treason. The problem with your argument is that the FBI, after months of investigating this, found “no derogatory information” and was “closing the case”. That conclusion was reached, and agreed to by Comey. Case closed, no damning evidence on Flynn. The FBI goes on to say that they would reopen the case if other evidence surfaced. Case closed. Turkey was over. It was throughly investigated.
What happened next? The case, due to some kind of clerical error, as I understand it, remained opened. Strzok is quoted as saying that the bureau’s “utter incompetence” actually helped them out. And the case involving the calls to Sergey began.
Maybe the judge was pissed they couldn’t proceed, or didn’t have enough, or any, evidence to prove Flynn was do what you are accusing him of. I really don’t know. I do know that the FBI determined that they did not have “any information on which to predicate further investigative efforts”
So, to answer you post, at that point in time, the FBI had nothing about Flynn and Turkey that could be proven, or that Flynn had committed any crime whatsoever. Maybe Flynn pulled off an “OJ” and really got away with something. But at that time, the FBI had nothing.
You're conflating different issues. TURKEY was the reason Flynn agreed to co-operate with Mueller. His cooperation meant Turkey would go away and he would be ALLOWED to plead to the lessor charge- lying to FBI. Turkey also involved his SON. Have you never heard folks on the Right claim that Flynn plead to protect his son. THIS is what they mean...
Do you understand plea bargaining/ copping a plea? You plead to a LESSOR charge to avoid a more serious sentence. Flynn PLEAD to "lying to the FBI" to avoid being CHARGED regarding Turkey. Flynn's hearing in front of Sullivan to plead was Dec 2018. What else happened in Dec 2018? Flynn's two "BUSINESS PARTNERS" were charged over Turkey... The two events were literally days apart- they're even jointly discussed right here in this link...
"Two former business associates of Michael Flynn, President Donald Trump's former national security adviser, have been indicted for conspiring to influence both U.S. politicians and public opinion concerning a political rival of Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan in 2016.
Prosecutors charged Bijan Rafiekian, also known as Bijan Kian, and Kamil Ekim Alptekin with acting as unregistered agents of the Turkish government in a plot centered around Turkish cleric Fethullah Gulen, who lives in Pennsylvania. U.S. Department of Justice attorneys allege the two business associates “sought to discredit and delegitimize the Turkish citizen in the eyes of politicians and the public, and ultimately to secure the Turkish citizen’s extradition.”
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/bus...arged-plot-centered-turkish/story?id=59865091
Flynn (and his son) were paid $15 Million by Turkey, to assist his "Business partners". THAT is why Flynn was allowed to plead to the "lying" charge, in exchange for testifying against the two Business partners"- thus keeping his son out of the mix.
Now fast forward to 2019. Flynn changes lawyers and suddenly it's as if the "worst" accusation against him is the "lying" charge. He suddenly seeks to withdraw his plea and stop co-operating. It's in the previous link I gave you from Summer 2019. Mueller had allowed Flynn to plead in exchange for turning informer on Turkey. Flynn tried to opt-out of the plea, so Turkey was back on the table. It's all right here...
"U.S. prosecutors have canceled plans to call President Donald Trump's former national security adviser Michael Flynn as a witness in a Virginia trial involving Flynn's former business partner — an abrupt change that raises questions about Flynn's co-operation with the government and its impact on his sentencing.
In court filings unsealed on Tuesday, federal prosecutors in Alexandria, Va., said they now plan to portray Flynn as a "co-conspirator" along with Bijan Rafiekian in a scheme to convince U.S. politicians to support Turkey's bid to extradite cleric Fethullah Gulen, a political dissident who lives in the United States.
Flynn's co-operation in Rafiekian's trial, which starts this month, could have an impact on how he is sentenced in his own case in a federal court in Washington, D.C."
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/court-documents-flynn-turkey-1.5205387
Barr and the Trump sycophants are purposely trying to make the entire case about "lying to the FBI". It wasn't, and Judge Sullivan didn't see it that way either. The "lying plea" was to AVOID the Turkey mess- lying was always the LESSOR OFFENSE. Flynn and his son were both paid by Turkey- that is established fact. They were both guilty of BRIBERY- none of that had anything to do with Comey, Strzok, or whatever Boogeyman the Right wants to throw out there. Mueller was essentially throwing Flynn a bone by letting him plead in exchange for his cooperation against his CO-CONSPIRATORS.
This is the sort of damaging info Mueller had on Flynn/Turkey...
"A foreign client paying retired Gen. Michael Flynn more than $500,000 to mount a campaign to advance Turkish government interests during the 2016 presidential campaign explicitly complained to a Flynn aide that then-candidate Donald Trump was not being supportive enough, newly released documents show.
A set of talking points prepared in October 2016 by Mike Boston, a former U.S. intelligence officer working with Flynn, indicate that “the client” backing the lobbying project complained that the GOP nominee had not gone to bat for Turkey. At the time, Flynn was also serving as a top foreign policy adviser to Trump.
“Republican Presidential candidate has not defended subject’s home country publicly. He should specifically ask questions about subject’s operations and funding,” Boston wrote under the heading “CLIENT FEEDBACK.”
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/05/31/michael-flynn-turkey-lobbying-1349054
Yes, you are right. I thought The Turkey investigation was included in the FBI investigation during the fall of 2016, into early 2017. It was not. It was included in the Mueller investigation. I have stated earlier that Flynn may very well be a complete sleazeball and his dealings with Turkey are suspect. Obviously that is a legitimate conclusion.
But that is really not the point I am trying to understanding. The FBI had determined in their investigation that there was no wrong doing by Flynn, and had attempted to close the case in early 2017. That investigation was primarily trying to determine if Flynn was a Russian agent, working against the US. There was no evidence found, yet through a clerical error, it remained opened. When Flynn was interviewed by the FBI on Jan 24th, 2017, he was under the assumption that the case was closed, and he was not a target any longer. That is when he allegedly lied about the phone call to Sergei, a point that Comey, and others within the bureau were not completely sold on. That has been my point through this entire thread. Yes, later, Mueller discovered evidence on Flynn wrt Turkey, and Flynn copped his plea. I believe the point that “the right” is trying to make is the charge of lying should have never been there, and the FBI acted in a way that I would hope most of us would find disturbing and hopefully not considered standard practice.
Yes, you are right. I thought The Turkey investigation was included in the FBI investigation during the fall of 2016, into early 2017. It was not. It was included in the Mueller investigation. I have stated earlier that Flynn may very well be a complete sleazeball and his dealings with Turkey are suspect. Obviously that is a legitimate conclusion.
But that is really not the point I am trying to understanding. The FBI had determined in their investigation that there was no wrong doing by Flynn, and had attempted to close the case in early 2017. That investigation was primarily trying to determine if Flynn was a Russian agent, working against the US. There was no evidence found, yet through a clerical error, it remained opened. When Flynn was interviewed by the FBI on Jan 24th, 2017, he was under the assumption that the case was closed, and he was not a target any longer. That is when he allegedly lied about the phone call to Sergei, a point that Comey, and others within the bureau were not completely sold on. That has been my point through this entire thread. Yes, later, Mueller discovered evidence on Flynn wrt Turkey, and Flynn copped his plea. I believe the point that “the right” is trying to make is the charge of lying should have never been there, and the FBI acted in a way that I would hope most of us would find disturbing and hopefully not considered standard practice.
You seem determined to be outraged by the wrong thing. Trump and Pence would be happy to have "American patriot" Mike Flynn back on Team Trump. Meanwhile, they fired another independent watchdog in another Friday night hatchet job - this time the State Department Inspector General - because they didn't like that he was actually independent. How do you feel about those things?
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