Fauci Stumped....
- Thread starter NPT
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Yes, that's when I had to have the vaccination - when he was still in power in Iraq.
What is crazy is that Anthrax was used as a chemical/biological weapon in WWI. Trench warfare is bad enough, but combine it with all the chemical and biological stuff, it is a wonder that the boys who survived WWI and came back home were not physicall and emotionally destroyed.
I'm sure many of them were... PTSD wasn't a "thing" back then though...
The called it "shell shock" or "battle fatigue."
I have no doubt. My grandfather on my father's side was in WWI and in France but he never saw combat by the time the war ended. He passed away in 1977, and I was 6. Would have been great to hear stories from him. My other grandfather did fight in WWII and was the bubble gunner in the B-17 Bomber. He and his buddies all enlisted with a nudge, nudge, wink , wink at age 17. He has a great story. His parents were from Belgium as was his older brother. They immigrated to Canada when my great grandmother was pregnant with my grandfather, so he had dual citizenship status of Belgian and Canadian. The immigrated to the US when he was 2 after my great grandmother died and moved to outside of Detroit into a sizeable post WW1 Belgian community there.
Fast forward to WW2 enlistment. He volunteered to serve as the bubble gunner in the Pacific theatre. Made several bombing runs over Japanese targets until one fateful day where his appendix ruptured on the bombing run. Obviously a horrendous deal and the pilot and crew wanted to turn back. He told them "finish the effing mission first. They did, then flew to the Philippines and they immediately knew he had sepsis at that point. He spent 5 months in the hospital there with his weight going from 180 to 112 lbs, and he was 6'1. We heard this story when I was 14--but not from him, but from one of the guys on the flight crew when there was a reunion, who felt we ought to know. He recovered and then spent several years pitching in the minor leagues with a couple of years in the bigs:
Ozzie Van Brabant - Wikipedia
I would guess that his story is likely the same as many, many others of that generation--selfless with balls bigger than the the moon. My guess is that there are probably guys like that today, but not near the amount. It is a great story for him and others, that you hope people can take lessons from.
That’s awesome. Easily could be an episode of a show.I have no doubt. My grandfather on my father's side was in WWI and in France but he never saw combat by the time the war ended. He passed away in 1977, and I was 6. Would have been great to hear stories from him. My other grandfather did fight in WWII and was the bubble gunner in the B-17 Bomber. He and his buddies all enlisted with a nudge, nudge, wink , wink at age 17. He has a great story. His parents were from Belgium as was his older brother. They immigrated to Canada when my great grandmother was pregnant with my grandfather, so he had dual citizenship status of Belgian and Canadian. The immigrated to the US when he was 2 after my great grandmother died and moved to outside of Detroit into a sizeable post WW1 Belgian community there.
Fast forward to WW2 enlistment. He volunteered to serve as the bubble gunner in the Pacific theatre. Made several bombing runs over Japanese targets until one fateful day where his appendix ruptured on the bombing run. Obviously a horrendous deal and the pilot and crew wanted to turn back. He told them "finish the effing mission first. They did, then flew to the Philippines and they immediately knew he had sepsis at that point. He spent 5 months in the hospital there with his weight going from 180 to 112 lbs, and he was 6'1. We heard this story when I was 14--but not from him, but from one of the guys on the flight crew when there was a reunion, who felt we ought to know. He recovered and then spent several years pitching in the minor leagues with a couple of years in the bigs:
Ozzie Van Brabant - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
I would guess that his story is likely the same as many, many others of that generation--selfless with balls bigger than the the moon. My guess is that there are probably guys like that today, but not near the amount. It is a great story for him and others, that you hope people can take lessons from.
Did you watch Masters of the Air?
I did. Loved it. Loved Band of Brothers too. Both really well done
The Bloody Hundredth is a great companion piece. It's too bad this wasn't made 25 years ago when they could have interspersed some interviews with surviving members of the group. That was my favorite part about BoB.
Have to tell a story about my Uncle Frank who served as a medic in WWI.
While in France he sent a sewing kit to a young lady friend in Louisville, Ky. Upon visiting Louisville in 1966 he called the lady. He hadn't contacted her since sending her the kit.
When asked if she received the kit she replied, "I was very emotional when sewing with the kit. I would sew a stitch and shed a tear, sew a stitch and shed a tear, . .."
Upon hearing her story the normally glib Uncle Frank was lost for words and simply ended the conversation by promising to call her in another 50 years.
While in France he sent a sewing kit to a young lady friend in Louisville, Ky. Upon visiting Louisville in 1966 he called the lady. He hadn't contacted her since sending her the kit.
When asked if she received the kit she replied, "I was very emotional when sewing with the kit. I would sew a stitch and shed a tear, sew a stitch and shed a tear, . .."
Upon hearing her story the normally glib Uncle Frank was lost for words and simply ended the conversation by promising to call her in another 50 years.
Of course they were. You are delusional. The virus preyed on those with co-morbidities, not kids. We learned that very fast, like by mid-2020. Yet, many public school districts, particularly in blue states, were hellbent on ruining children's development for the sake of trying to protect adults. There was frequent intervention and home "schooling", which set millions of kids on a lower than average trajectory in terms of learning and development. Parents were forced to try and juggle working from home while kids were stuck home. Neither side benefited.
You literally had hospitals that wouldn't let fathers come into the ER (or some cases the recovery rooms) to see their newborn babies. Mothers that just gave birth were forced to wear masks instead of bonding normally with their babies.
It was literal insanity. You may not have believed it to be such back then, and there is some validity to that. But let's not pretend like it is anything but now. If you do, you are rejecting common sense and acting like stubborn old people that made these (and continued to make) these flawed decisions throughout 2020 and 2021.
Whoa whoa whoa. Why don’t you reorient yourself to who actually carried out those anthrax attacks, guy?
And if my aunt had balls she’d be my uncle. I did deploy against Saddam Hussein and took the vaccine and thought it was as stupid then as it is now and I’ve got an ugly scar to show for it.
Mainly because there’s not really a threat to deployed soldiers and a weaponized version of it renders the vaccine useless.
Any other nonsense you want to discuss?
The shadow of anthrax: The voluntary COVID-19 vaccination effort owes much to past failures
The voluntary COVID-19 vaccine effort stands in stark contrast to the Pentagon’s mandatory Anthrax Vaccine Immunization Program, which began in 1998. Those who refused often faced harsh penalties.
www.armytimes.com
During Covid you were an obnoxious asshole with anyone that disagreed with you. Just like Fauci you thought you were SCIENCE and no one was allowed to dissent.
Ok ok ok, and during deflate gate... and days ending in Y. Better?
Quite to the contrary, when I see people posting conspiracy theory bullshit, my aim is to dispassionately link sourced facts and explain them in layman's terms. I think some people on here appreciate the thoughts of someone who CURRENTLY leads antiviral drug discovery research projects funded by the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases. Especially someone who could explain the concepts in layman's terms, while also laying out the differences between established facts and educated guesses, when that distinction was warranted.
Using science to make policy recommendations is always going to be tricky. You have extrapolate from incomplete data, making educated guesses and applying good doses of common sense.
Problem is, people who cling to conspiracy theories don't want to use common sense and don't want to consider evidence contrary to their conspiracy theories.
Wouldn't you say it's common sense that it would be better be stay (say) 10 feet away from a person sick with COVID than be regularly be 6 inches away? Wouldn't you say that it's common sense to wear an N95 mask when you are infected, when data shows that when properly masked, respiratory droplets travel a much lower distance (but not zero!) and are fewer in number (but still not zero!)?
So, play the scientist asked to be public policy advisor. What do you recommend? Well, maybe you decide that for an outbreak of a respiratory coronavirus you rely on a study from the only other outbreak of a respiratory coronavirus we know of: SARS2 in 2002. There was an imperfect study, but published in the New England Journal, merely analyzing what happened when multiple SARS1-infected persons took a commercial flight, who "got it" and who didn't. The data said that you were shit out of luck if you sat within two rows of an infected person (roughly, within 5 feet), but you were safe if you sat 3 or more rows away (roughly, 8 feet or more).
Is a plane exactly like a workplace? No. Is a plane exactly like any other indoor space? Not really. So you could throw up your hands and say "gee, nobody's done the exact study we need to have to know for sure, so go about your merry way if you're sick" or you could say "based on common sense, and the plane study, distance from an infected person seems to be important" and concluding that there is likely a benefit and likely little harm in recommending people be >6 feet from one another, a minimum distance that was safe on that flight. Do the droplets disappear at the 5 feet 11 inch mark? Of course not. Is there value in giving out an educated guess estimate? I'd say yes.
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You’re the delusional one if you don’t think kids who may be asymptomatic couldn’t bring the virus home and infect anyone they came in contact with including parents, grandparents, people with known and unknown underlying conditions. Those then don’t show symptoms for some time and then they go out and continue spreading COVID.
Did it impact education? Absolutely. But I would argue that cell phones have a much greater negative impact on education than a 6-8 month pause in in person school. It’s wonderful that you can apply what we know now to 2020 when we really didn’t know what we were dealing with.
Again, over 7 million people that we know of world wide died from COVID. You have yet to give one example who died because their mask killed them. You have the freedom to kill yourself with COVID or by drinking bleach or whatever. But you have no right to kill my loved ones because you want to make a political statement. And make no mistake, it is completely political. Every person I’ve heard bitch about this have been Trumpers and or Republicans. Just like January 6th was nothing more than a peaceful demonstration and a false flag operation by the FBI. Which were still under the Trump administration.
You guys just can’t help but live in the past. It’s 2024 in case you’ve been asleep. Try looking forward once in a while.
Those things would be appreciated if:
- It is delivered from a scientific, non-political pov
- It was acknowledged as an evolving, ever changing situation, meaning the “scientist” would not shout down, belittle, or dismiss dissenting opinions or evidence which may change over time
- & finally, is accurate
name ONE thing...
Oh, you will surely make up something you THINK that I said. But that isn't what I am asking for. Give links...
Lots of stuff to review in this thread. Your 100% certainty in 2021 on the lack of genetic manipulation of the virus (that it was impossible), that Wuhan didn't have the capability to do it (along with a nice little racist comp of their scientific abilities to Jiffy Lube even though it later turned out they were on the cutting edge of all this stuff), etc.
Covid is over
There are two different conversations going on. Whether the virus naturally jumped from another species to humans or whether the origin was a containment failure at a lab is absolutely worth investigating. I don't know that we'll ever definitively know, but we should look nonetheless. That's...
indiana.forums.rivals.com
Please provide the link to any evidence that the Wuhan Virology Institute was "on the cutting edge" for performing traceless gene insertion into wild viruses. Even one paper would do. And how the F is it "racist" to say that Harvard & Oxford have technological capabilities that WVI does not? Is it racist to say that IU is better at something than Ivy Tech?
By and large my opinions on the virus origins come from my collaborator Kristian Andersen. The same guy who contacted Fauci in early 2020 with concern about the furin cleavage site and his initial thought that maybe it was engineered. Then a year later Kristian's team sequenced other coronaviruses and determined that furin cleavage sites are naturally-occurring, published a paper on it, and had to respond to people citing his initial concerns about an engineered origin by pointing out his later work proving his initial impression to be totally wrong. Further, his sequencing of bat coronaviruses showed that there were some striking similarities and no insertion sequences (large segments of RNA added) in SARS2 relative to the bat homologs.
Lab leak has always been a possibility, but you cannot explain the spread of the virus, radiating out from the market, rather than from the Institute over 20 miles away. Well, I guess you can explain it is if the patient case data was completely made-up by the Chinese. But even the pattern of dead health care workers in hospitals centered around those hospitals near the market, not near the Institute. So... that was made-up too, right?
What I have argued against is not lab leak but the Chinese bioterrorism charge. There are 10 virus families that at least before 2020 were known to be more lethal to humans than coronaviruses and that were also easier to culture and manipulate. Either at Harvard or in Wuhan. Why pick that virus? 7 coronovirea were known to the world before 2019, six of them were harmless, and the 7th was SARS1 which while lethal was short-lived. And why unleash it on your own population?
Lab leak has always been a possibility, but you cannot explain the spread of the virus, radiating out from the market, rather than from the Institute over 20 miles away. Well, I guess you can explain it is if the patient case data was completely made-up by the Chinese. But even the pattern of dead health care workers in hospitals centered around those hospitals near the market, not near the Institute. So... that was made-up too, right?
What I have argued against is not lab leak but the Chinese bioterrorism charge. There are 10 virus families that at least before 2020 were known to be more lethal to humans than coronaviruses and that were also easier to culture and manipulate. Either at Harvard or in Wuhan. Why pick that virus? 7 coronovirea were known to the world before 2019, six of them were harmless, and the 7th was SARS1 which while lethal was short-lived. And why unleash it on your own population?
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I, for one, would like to hear about your daughter participating in Brooklyn protests that had drum circles where everyone was masked and practicing social distance. Maybe copy and paste one of the half dozen previous posts into this thread for old time's sake.
I was told that George Floyd protests were inherently violent and that anyone who went to them suddenly abandoned any notion that COVID-19 was dangerous. I never participated in any such protests, but my daughter had finished her undergrad degree at Columbia in 2019 and stayed in NYC afterwards. Not a great place to be during the pandemic. But indeed she attended some peaceful protests and people were encouraged to wear masks and social distance, even outside. Pretty bizarre, and not something recommended by Fauci
What is the point of your post? To try and attack him and his daughter personally? He provided good technical information.I, for one, would like to hear about your daughter participating in Brooklyn protests that had drum circles where everyone was masked and practicing social distance. Maybe copy and paste one of the half dozen previous posts into this thread for old time's sake.
He's been wrong for years, just as he was in this thread.
So assuming that is true, what does his daughter participating in a protest have to do with his technical assessment? Not a thing--just an opportunity to be an ass.
He's provided technical information. Besides saying someone is wrong, why is he wrong?
And if my aunt had balls she’d be my uncle. I did deploy against Saddam Hussein and took the vaccine and thought it was as stupid then as it is now and I’ve got an ugly scar to show for it.
Mainly because there’s not really a threat to deployed soldiers and a weaponized version of it renders the vaccine useless.
Any other nonsense you want to discuss?
The shadow of anthrax: The voluntary COVID-19 vaccination effort owes much to past failures
The voluntary COVID-19 vaccine effort stands in stark contrast to the Pentagon’s mandatory Anthrax Vaccine Immunization Program, which began in 1998. Those who refused often faced harsh penalties.
Not here to argue. I was making a statement about myself personally. The “gotcha” bullshit here is a microcosm of why society is generally f——-d. I was just expressing a personal opinion of what I would have done. I’m libertarian, my friendAnd if my aunt had balls she’d be my uncle. I did deploy against Saddam Hussein and took the vaccine and thought it was as stupid then as it is now and I’ve got an ugly scar to show for it.
Mainly because there’s not really a threat to deployed soldiers and a weaponized version of it renders the vaccine useless.
Any other nonsense you want to discuss?
The shadow of anthrax: The voluntary COVID-19 vaccination effort owes much to past failures
The voluntary COVID-19 vaccine effort stands in stark contrast to the Pentagon’s mandatory Anthrax Vaccine Immunization Program, which began in 1998. Those who refused often faced harsh penalties.
That's some bullshit, sir. You absolutely jumped on the natural causes is the only explanation and linked all of your friends that kept blanketing small fires as they discovered more and more damning evidence.
Moreover, aside from the obvious nut jobs, most weren't suggesting the Chinese intentionally released the virus to spread on their own people. Yet, you refused to acknowledge that major distinction.
Lastly, you continue to explain why you don't believe in the Lab Leak possibility. Yet, for some reason, bats traveled more than 1,000 miles to infect people at the Wuhan market? Where are the supposed animals that were carriers? There is zero evidence of any of this potentially logical sequence, which is not possible in 2024.
Think I did that in that very thread. Posted a paper from the UNC prof and the one at Wuhan from 2014 or 25 (?) about the use of that method. You might also reference this paper on the Chinese continued study of gain-of-function research through genetic manipulation that was outlawed here in the States( and the fact that Chinese researchers were working as a team with US Researchers on coronavirus research as early as 2015).
Gain-of-function and origin of Covid19
In nature, wild viruses adapted for transmission circulate in many animal species (bats, birds, primates…). Contamination of other animals, including humans, may occur by crossing of the species barrier. Genetic manipulations have been carried ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
It was racist because you just assumed a Chinese facility couldn't genetically manipulate a virus as well as white European places. That's a trope used against the Chinese and Japanese all the time--that they aren't "creative" or innovative in all sorts of fields like us whites.
I notice you still don't admit you were wrong on that 100% claim in 2021 (that was debunked in that very thread).
That's another thing you're wrong about. Make that 4 now:
outside shooter said:
You are ignoring content by this member.
Certain types of people don't care about FACTS.
We know the virus's precise RNA sequence and it was not an engineered sequence. It arose from random mutation of a native bat virus. Where, precisely, did that mutation happen? We don't know. But it was not "created" in any lab experiment.
You are ignoring content by this member.
Neither of those scenarios involves the virus being, in any way, "created" in a lab. It came from a natural virus that infected people, either people who came in contact with bats or a secondary carrier, or people exposed to the natural virus in a lab accident.
My point was that it was, with 100% certainty, not genetically engineered in a lab.
Yet another article discussing Wuhan's ability and history of genetically altering coronoviruses:
www.technologyreview.com
"The institute holds a critical place in the story of the covid-19 pandemic. A leading center for coronavirus research, it was the first facility to isolate the new virus, and the first to sequence its genome. One of its labs, led by virologist Shi Zhengli, focuses on coronaviruses that live in bats, and has spent years sequencing viral genomes, isolating live viruses, and—through genetic mixing and matching—trying to understand how they may evolve to gain the ability to infect humans. Over the past 18 years, her team has collected more than 20,000 samples from bat colonies across China.
Shi’s work, which has earned her the nickname China’s bat woman, has been at the center of controversy. Some have suggested that her bat samples could be the source of the covid-19 virus, which scientists call SARS-CoV-2. They have claimed that the virus could have hitched a ride to Wuhan by infecting one of her team members in their fieldwork collecting samples from bats. Or, some speculate, the live viruses her team cultured in the lab, including—more worryingly—the ones they created by genetic tinkering, could be the source of the pandemic."
Meet the scientist at the center of the covid lab leak controversy
Shi Zhengli has spent years at the Wuhan Institute of Virology researching coronaviruses that live in bats. Her work has come under fire as the world tries to understand where covid-19 came from.
"The institute holds a critical place in the story of the covid-19 pandemic. A leading center for coronavirus research, it was the first facility to isolate the new virus, and the first to sequence its genome. One of its labs, led by virologist Shi Zhengli, focuses on coronaviruses that live in bats, and has spent years sequencing viral genomes, isolating live viruses, and—through genetic mixing and matching—trying to understand how they may evolve to gain the ability to infect humans. Over the past 18 years, her team has collected more than 20,000 samples from bat colonies across China.
Shi’s work, which has earned her the nickname China’s bat woman, has been at the center of controversy. Some have suggested that her bat samples could be the source of the covid-19 virus, which scientists call SARS-CoV-2. They have claimed that the virus could have hitched a ride to Wuhan by infecting one of her team members in their fieldwork collecting samples from bats. Or, some speculate, the live viruses her team cultured in the lab, including—more worryingly—the ones they created by genetic tinkering, could be the source of the pandemic."
1) "created in a lab" and "lab leak" are NOT synonymous. As the final sentence you quoted from me states, all along I have said that release via a lab accident MIGHT have happened: "people exposed to the natural virus in a lab accident" . It wasn't a lab leak of a virus that was intentionally enhanced by genetic engineering beforehand, but a lab leak of a virus that mutated naturally in the lab (and that thus had no insertion sequences, relative to the bat coronaviruses).
2) You haven't the first clue what "traceless gene insertion" means, so you assert that I'm lying. It doesn't mean studying viruses or doing gain-of-function experiments.
3) You racism charge is stupid and full of wrong assumptions. You also apparently think Harvard is in Europe. You seem to think that there are not any professors at Harvard and Oxford who are from China or Japan. I could tell you that I am collaborating with a US virologist of Chinese ancestry right now (we have our weekly zoom meeting tomorrow) but I'm sure you would call it a lie. Engineering a bioweapon would be a hard task. I'm not sure that you could pull it off at Harvard, so it isn't racist to doubt that you could pull it off at the Wuhan Virology Institute or at Indiana University, for that matter.
2) You haven't the first clue what "traceless gene insertion" means, so you assert that I'm lying. It doesn't mean studying viruses or doing gain-of-function experiments.
3) You racism charge is stupid and full of wrong assumptions. You also apparently think Harvard is in Europe. You seem to think that there are not any professors at Harvard and Oxford who are from China or Japan. I could tell you that I am collaborating with a US virologist of Chinese ancestry right now (we have our weekly zoom meeting tomorrow) but I'm sure you would call it a lie. Engineering a bioweapon would be a hard task. I'm not sure that you could pull it off at Harvard, so it isn't racist to doubt that you could pull it off at the Wuhan Virology Institute or at Indiana University, for that matter.
What alternatives are you talking about? Ingesting bleach, or say taking a drug commonly used for gastric worms and head lice perhaps? With absolutely no evidence of efficacy unlike the COVID vaccine had. While not perfect the doctors and scientists were giving the best advice with what was and wasn’t known at the time. You guys just can’t get over the fact that you were mildly inconvenienced in order to save lives.
And btw, I’m sure the earth is flat, the moon landing never happened, and Jewish space lasers started the California wildfires in your world.
You making a run at Shooter’s title it appears…carry on…🤣
That would be a plausible scenario that I suggested to you in 2020. An accidental lab leak.
Shi Zhengli is indeed well known for comparative gene sequence analysis of viruses from thousands of natural samples, showing how the different viruses were related, what is their family tree, how they evolved and swapped their genes naturally. Viruses do mix and match their genomes, again, naturally. She has not introduced genes from one virus into another virus. Do you understand the difference?
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