And you dbmhoosier otherwise known as dumbhoosier for obvious reasons. And remember. Orange Jesus loves you and asks for your contribution in order to bring about his dictatorship.
Fauci Stumped....
- Thread starter NPT
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1. Everyone knows there are four basic options here: (1) completely natural transmission in the wild; (2) transmission of a collected, but naturally evolved, non-manipulated virus accidentally via WIV; (3) transmission of a collected but genetically modified (method is irrelevant) virus accidentally from WIV; (4) transmission of a collected but genetically modified virus intentionally from WIV. The two of us have always admitted there is no evidence for (4) and it's not worth considering at this point.
Re the difference between (2) and (3), are you playing with the word natural? One could use that to describe serial passage. Or it could have been manipulated with the no see um approach--not natural, but not detectable. The US intelligence agencies can't rule out either and I'm assuming they had the foresight to address your issues:
"Most agencies also assess with low confidence that SARS-CoV-2 probably was not genetically engineered; however, two agencies believe there was not sufficient evidence to make an assessment either way."
https://www.dni.gov/files/ODNI/documents/assessments/Declassified-Assessment-on-COVID-19-Origins.pdf
2. Two things here. First, I never said you were lying; I said you were wrong. Big difference, no?
Second, my understanding of the no see um approach is irrelevant (although I do have "the first clue."). But Dr. Shi's knowledge is relevant, and she knows far more than you or I put together:
"Dr. Shi was trained by Ralph S. Baric of the University of North Carolina in building “chimera” viruses — taking, for example, the spike protein from a new virus and splicing it to the backbone of a known one like SARS. He invented “no-see-um” techniques that left no trace of the splice.
(Interestingly, Dr. Baric is one of the signers of the letter to Science demanding a more thorough investigation of all Wuhan labs.)
Then, to see if the new chimeras could infect people, they were tested against human airway cells and “humanized” mice — mice bred to have human ACE-2 receptors on their organs."
3. The bioterrorism thing is a red herring, see pt. 1. That was never part of the discussion, except when you wanted to set up a straw man to knock down.
I believe you about whoever you're working with but don't really care. I'm not calling you a racist; I'm calling your reference to Wuhan as a Jiffy Lube a racist trope. Ask a Chinese national what they think of that characterization. You claimed Wuhan couldn't alter a coronavirus. But they apparently do it a lot from the reporting we've heard since 2021 (remember our NIH contracted with them?). Again, you can try to fall back on the no see um approach specifically, but that just pours you back into point 1, where your 100% certainty is not warranted.
I think it's pretty clear you were wrong on both these things.
Yep. I do. First, that doesn't mean she doesn't practice other types of manipulation. Second, if she's mixing and matching to get an outcome to study, most would consider that manipulation. Do you understand that?
What’s true is that a US researcher government employee carried out the attacks. Not Saddam. Not Al-Qaeda. And the vaccine is useless against a weaponized aerosol version of anthrax.
It’s a stupid vaccination program and we’re all sheep for letting them just do it to us.
More from the recent NYT piece on the Wuhan Institute's capabilities to genetically modify a coronavirus:Yet another article discussing Wuhan's ability and history of genetically altering coronoviruses:
Meet the scientist at the center of the covid lab leak controversy
Shi Zhengli has spent years at the Wuhan Institute of Virology researching coronaviruses that live in bats. Her work has come under fire as the world tries to understand where covid-19 came from.www.technologyreview.com
"The institute holds a critical place in the story of the covid-19 pandemic. A leading center for coronavirus research, it was the first facility to isolate the new virus, and the first to sequence its genome. One of its labs, led by virologist Shi Zhengli, focuses on coronaviruses that live in bats, and has spent years sequencing viral genomes, isolating live viruses, and—through genetic mixing and matching—trying to understand how they may evolve to gain the ability to infect humans. Over the past 18 years, her team has collected more than 20,000 samples from bat colonies across China.
Shi’s work, which has earned her the nickname China’s bat woman, has been at the center of controversy. Some have suggested that her bat samples could be the source of the covid-19 virus, which scientists call SARS-CoV-2. They have claimed that the virus could have hitched a ride to Wuhan by infecting one of her team members in their fieldwork collecting samples from bats. Or, some speculate, the live viruses her team cultured in the lab, including—more worryingly—the ones they created by genetic tinkering, could be the source of the pandemic."
The year before the outbreak, the Wuhan institute, working with U.S. partners, had proposed creating viruses with SARS‑CoV‑2’s defining feature.
- Dr. Shi’s group was fascinated by how coronaviruses jump from species to species. To find viruses, they took samples from bats and other animals, as well as from sick people living near animals carrying these viruses or associated with the wildlife trade. Much of this work was conducted in partnership with the EcoHealth Alliance, a U.S.-based scientific organization that, since 2002, has been awarded over $80 million in federal funding to research the risks of emerging infectious diseases.
- The laboratory pursued risky research that resulted in viruses becoming more infectious: Coronaviruses were grown from samples from infected animals and genetically reconstructed and recombined to create new viruses unknown in nature. These new viruses were passed through cells from bats, pigs, primates and humans and were used to infect civets and humanized mice (mice modified with human genes). In essence, this process forced these viruses to adapt to new host species, and the viruses with mutations that allowed them to thrive emerged as victors.
- By 2019, Dr. Shi’s group had published a database describing more than 22,000 collected wildlife samples. But external access was shut off in the fall of 2019, and the database was not shared with American collaborators even after the pandemic started, when such a rich virus collection would have been most useful in tracking the origin of SARS‑CoV‑2. It remains unclear whether the Wuhan institute possessed a precursor of the pandemic virus.
- In 2021, The Intercept published a leaked 2018 grant proposal for a research project named Defuse, which had been written as a collaboration between EcoHealth, the Wuhan institute and Ralph Baric at the University of North Carolina, who had been on the cutting edge of coronavirus research for years. The proposal described plans to create viruses strikingly similar to SARS‑CoV‑2.
- Coronaviruses bear their name because their surface is studded with protein spikes, like a spiky crown, which they use to enter animal cells. The Defuse project proposed to search for and create SARS-like viruses carrying spikes with a unique feature: a furin cleavage site — the same feature that enhances SARS‑CoV‑2’s infectiousness in humans, making it capable of causing a pandemic. Defuse was never funded by the United States. However, in his testimony on Monday, Dr. Fauci explained that the Wuhan institute would not need to rely on U.S. funding to pursue research independently.
My uncle survived D-Day and never spoke a word about it. Matter of fact, I didn’t know he fought there until the day he died. Also, one of my father’s closest friends was in the Battle of the Bulge. Only thing he would relate is that he got frost bite. No great stories. They just survived. Truly the greatest generation. God bless them.I have no doubt. My grandfather on my father's side was in WWI and in France but he never saw combat by the time the war ended. He passed away in 1977, and I was 6. Would have been great to hear stories from him. My other grandfather did fight in WWII and was the bubble gunner in the B-17 Bomber. He and his buddies all enlisted with a nudge, nudge, wink , wink at age 17. He has a great story. His parents were from Belgium as was his older brother. They immigrated to Canada when my great grandmother was pregnant with my grandfather, so he had dual citizenship status of Belgian and Canadian. The immigrated to the US when he was 2 after my great grandmother died and moved to outside of Detroit into a sizeable post WW1 Belgian community there.
Fast forward to WW2 enlistment. He volunteered to serve as the bubble gunner in the Pacific theatre. Made several bombing runs over Japanese targets until one fateful day where his appendix ruptured on the bombing run. Obviously a horrendous deal and the pilot and crew wanted to turn back. He told them "finish the effing mission first. They did, then flew to the Philippines and they immediately knew he had sepsis at that point. He spent 5 months in the hospital there with his weight going from 180 to 112 lbs, and he was 6'1. We heard this story when I was 14--but not from him, but from one of the guys on the flight crew when there was a reunion, who felt we ought to know. He recovered and then spent several years pitching in the minor leagues with a couple of years in the bigs:
Ozzie Van Brabant - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
I would guess that his story is likely the same as many, many others of that generation--selfless with balls bigger than the the moon. My guess is that there are probably guys like that today, but not near the amount. It is a great story for him and others, that you hope people can take lessons from.
It's not a fact that the vaccination doesn't work against weaponized aerosol version. That's an opinion and opinions differ on that. It was a lawful order to take the vaccine at the time. There are consequences for not obeying a lawful order.
You’re either an idiot or don’t realize we’re talking about a different vaccine.
I understand it was a lawful order but it was the wrong order. My problem is not with you for doing what had to be done, the problem is with the bureaucrats that couldn’t think critically at the time. We had to have a nasty vaccine that wasn’t tested against weaponized anthrax but later were told we “go to war with the Army we have while we were losing guys to IEDs every day.” If you don’t see the hypocrisy in that then we’re done here.
It’s even more stupid that they forced at-sea sailors to get an anthrax vaccine.
I think she has:
Construction of recombinant viruses
Recombinant viruses with the S gene of the novel bat SARSr-CoVs and the backbone of the infectious clone of SARSr-CoV WIV1 were constructed using the reverse genetic system described previously [23] (S9 Fig). The fragments E and F were re-amplified with primer pairs (FE, 5’-AGGGCCCACCTGGCACTGGTAAGAGTCATTTTGC-3’, R-EsBsaI, 5’-ACTGGTCTCTTCGTTTAGTTATTAACTAAAATATCACTAGACACC-3’) and (F-FsBsaI, 5’-TGAGGTCTCCGAACTTATGGATTTGTTTATGAG-3’, RF, 5’-AGGTAGGCCTCTAGGGCAGCTAAC-3’), respectively. The products were named as fragment Es and Fs, which leave the spike gene coding region as an independent fragment. BsaI sites (5’-GGTCTCN|NNNN-3’) were introduced into the 3’ terminal of the Es fragment and the 5’ terminal of the Fs fragment, respectively. The spike sequence of Rs4231 was amplified with the primer pair (F-Rs4231-BsmBI, 5’-AGTCGTCTCAACGAACATGTTTATTTTCTTATTCTTTCTCACTCTCAC-3’ and R-Rs4231-BsmBI, 5’-TCACGTCTCAGTTCGTTTATGTGTAATGTAATTTGACACCCTTG-3’). The S gene sequence of Rs7327 was amplified with primer pair (F-Rs7327-BsaI, 5’-AGTGGTCTCAACGAACATGAAATTGTTAGTTTTAGTTTTTGCTAC-3’ and R-Rs7327-BsaI, 5’- TCAGGTCTCAGTTCGTTTATGTGTAATGTAATTTAACACCCTTG-3’). The fragment Es and Fs were both digested with BglI (NEB) and BsaI (NEB). The Rs4231 S gene was digested with BsmBI. The Rs7327 S gene was digested with BsaI. The other fragments and bacterial artificial chromosome (BAC) were prepared as described previously. Then the two prepared spike DNA fragments were separately inserted into BAC with Es, Fs and other fragments. The correct infectious BAC clones were screened. The chimeric viruses were rescued as described previously [23].https://archive.md/DhGo4#selection-4011.0-4038.0 (linked in the NYT piece)
A recombinant virus is:
those that are generated to incorporate modification(s) introduced into a specific gene/locus (or multiple loci) of the viral genome.
And the chimeric viruses they created are:
viruses that contain genetic material derived from two or more distinct viruses.
While I actually agree (probably) that shutting down schools was a mistake, correct me if I'm wrong, but the reasoning at the time wasn't because the little kids were vulnerable as much as it was that they would take the disease home to more vulnerable family members. At least, that's how I understood it.
I know my entire Covid existence during those first few months revolved around not getting infected and bringing the disease over to my disabled and comorbidity-possessing mother. I was quite sympathetic to the idea that we should avoid avenues for the disease to travel from outside the home into one where vulnerable people lived.
Bigger question is WTF did the guy feel the need to mask for a handjob.
What comes around goes around. He's been a condescending ass for years, making everything personal.
Feel free to put me on ignore. I'll scroll past you if that helps.
Edit: added condescending
I don't have a tribe. You're in the group that needs to label people.
There should've just been a travel ban. Trump making it just about China showed ignorance or prejudice. Thinking it would just come through on direction...just utter stupidity.
It would like you trying to shut down US 50 so you can keep the bad people out.
We welcome everyone coming through HWY 50. Washington is now known as little Mexico and little Haiti. It’s so bad I moved north towards San Francisco east. 😂
Edit: are any Non Aryan folks allow in Carmel?
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Heck Bloom, the Amish have allowed jerked over Amish, Mennonite, jerked over Mennonite, all other religions and all races in Daviess County.
My mistake. Been so much nonsense about vaccines on here I got confused. Happens at my age.
True. CBR Drills were always my least favorite. Chemical and biological attacks on ships at sea would be unlikely at best. We do visit ports and go ashore at times.
I absolutely did NOT claim anything of the sort. I said that they would be unlikely to pull off targeted and traceless gene insertion modification experiments designed to alter a virus's capabilities in a specific way.
They are perfectly capable of altering the genetics of a coronavirus. YOU COULD EVEN DO THAT by conducting directed evolution studies, including studies that the NIH expressly prohibits. For example, the most common type of gain-of-function experiment would be to use a drug like Paxlovid on a culture of viruses, but use it at low levels such that some viruses survive. Take those surviving viruses, grow them up, and re-expose them to still low (but slighly higher) levels of the drug. Again, some survive. Repeat for 10 cycles, slightly raising the level of the drug each time, and then you have a super-strain of virus that is completely resistant to Paxlovid.
At first glance that might seem a useful experiment, to get a forewarning of how a virus might evolve in patients that don't take Paxlovid according to label instructions. Take them half the time, for example. You could see if another drug would work to kill the super-strain.
But what if that now-evolved virus were to escape the lab? Maybe you have a suddenly untreatable variant wreaking havoc. Such studies are outlawed in the USA. But not in some places.
My opinion is that if they altered coronaviruses it was through such a selective pressure approach. But the only thing at the time know to affect SARS 2 was remdesivir, and the original Wuhan strain was not resistant to remdesivir, so it doesn't make sense that they even did that.
That's not what she did, though. This language describing her work was misleading. Her papers are published. She analyzed genetic sequences by computational /AI algorithms to see how the viruses themselves mixed and matched their genes over time.
Sort of like a ancestry.com genetic analysis of 20,000 viral genomes sampled. A huge endeavor. Very challenging and important but having nothing to so with traceless gene insertion technology.
Trump lost Carmel by 10 points. You wouldn't like it here.
As discussed in a long since buried topic, where most involved proved they only view diversity as black/white, Carmel school's are 30% non-white, so I would assume the adult community is close to 25% non-white, skewed to pitch white with my generation and older.
As Carmel ages, it will get more diverse. It is tied with HSE as the most diverse school system in the county. Well ahead of Westfield and Noblesville, as well as our Boone County neighbor to the west, Zionsville.
Hate to burst your bubble.
Many many Asians live in Carmel- so yes is the answer to your tongue-in-cheek question
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anon_mya1phvcpf5x4
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You think shutting down schools was a mistake?
Hospitals were overcrowded even with the schools being shut down. It would have been much worse had schools remained open and kids were ground zero in their communities for spreading covid to households.
Merck and Moderna are in trials for cancer vaccines. The research about what surging cancer rates will do to pharmaceutical stocks has institutional investors excited.
No, just numbers. I'm what way do you imagine Daviess County is more diverse than Carmel? Maybe you're examining things in a way I haven't thought of.
Daviess County has diverse races, religions and sexual preferences. Maybe mot as much as Carmel but it’s more than you might think.
Watching Hoosiers argue over who's town is more diverse is like the Biden DOJ squabbling over who has the most ethics.
No one wins in a tallest midget contest.
No one wins in a tallest midget contest.
Well, you're the one who made the claim, which is why I asked you to define it. So go ahead, define it. Explain how Daviess County is more diverse than Carmel, or admit you were wrong. Pretty simple.
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anon_mya1phvcpf5x4
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