Duke...
- Thread starter bsmitty08
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Not a Duke fan, but who wouldn't want to go play at Duke in front of those crowds, on national t.v. all the time.
Same as what UK was doing before Cal dropped off. Thankfully Coach K should be retired on 5 years.
Great coach’s are great recruiters. Talent on floor makes coaches look smart. Simple game really. Not hard to coach. Very hard to consistently get top talent. Let’s go CAM. He can coach . Hope he can recruit. For me it’s about class of 19 for him. Love to see Langford at IU but wouldn’t bet a paycheck. Go Hoosiers!
Same old stuff Alabama football, New England, and Duke. Sports kinda suck right now think god my Cubs are good..
Some of the experts on here better let Coach K know that getting all these top 10 players is bad for his program. He’d be better off turning those players down and getting 4 year players. You’d think a guy like K would know this basic stuff.
Someone remind me, which one and dones we're major contributors to a freshman based national title team?
Awnswer is none.
If you mix them in with upperclassmen...the answer is three that I can remember:
Okafor and Jones
Anthony Davis
Carmello
Next year's Duke team, just like several Kentucky teams and all the way back to the Fab five will come in with guys like here slobbering all over their knobs, throwing out how they are the best recruiting class ever, they'll probably go undefeated because they are so talented....and they might get to the final four if they are lucky because they will run into....
A more experienced, physically and emotionally stronger, and closely talented team like a Villanova or this year's Purdump or this year's MSU.
Rinse and repeat
So congratulations Duke. Just a couple of years ago Coach Almighty was denouncing the UK blueprint.
My guess is he knows he's on his last legs.
Awnswer is none.
If you mix them in with upperclassmen...the answer is three that I can remember:
Okafor and Jones
Anthony Davis
Carmello
Next year's Duke team, just like several Kentucky teams and all the way back to the Fab five will come in with guys like here slobbering all over their knobs, throwing out how they are the best recruiting class ever, they'll probably go undefeated because they are so talented....and they might get to the final four if they are lucky because they will run into....
A more experienced, physically and emotionally stronger, and closely talented team like a Villanova or this year's Purdump or this year's MSU.
Rinse and repeat
So congratulations Duke. Just a couple of years ago Coach Almighty was denouncing the UK blueprint.
My guess is he knows he's on his last legs.
K is the best to ever walk the sidelines in college basketball. Who would not want to play for him if given the chance?
No one is arguing that he'd win more games or titles without the one and dones but for me I'd rather be Virginia, Villanova, or Gonzaga than what Duke or UK have become even if it means winning less games.
You guys also realize that the one and done is like cocaine to a program.
It's a fun high for one year but in the end you don't really accomplish much and now you have to deal with the wreckage of the crash if you don't have more 'drugs' coming in behind it to sustain.
Like this year's UCLA.
You need elite talent but that talent still needs to be seasoned.
Crying Roy has figured that out.
An 18 year old is still an 18 year old.
It's a fun high for one year but in the end you don't really accomplish much and now you have to deal with the wreckage of the crash if you don't have more 'drugs' coming in behind it to sustain.
Like this year's UCLA.
You need elite talent but that talent still needs to be seasoned.
Crying Roy has figured that out.
An 18 year old is still an 18 year old.
You might want to tell Coach K and Cal that. They have quite a few banners suggesting otherwise.
2 is quite a few.
And Cal's banner was because his one and done process came back for their second year and that team had talented multi year guys.
Anthony Davis accented that team.
Duke with Jones, Winslow and Okafor is the other primary freshman laden team that I'd give credit to.
Most times it's a Villanova, or a Kansas, or a UConn, or a UNC....teams that have a sprinkle of one and dones that balances out vs an overdose of them.
And yet you would have demanded the firing of Duke's AD after Mike K's first 3 years.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the vast majority of teams in the past 15 years who won the title didn't start a one and done.
Correct but a better barometer would be how many final 4 teams had 1 and done’s
He won't understand you because all he cares about is winning and losing and nothing on how to build a program.
Duke and UK are the only teams to win the championship starting a one a done player. Last year UNC had Bradley but he did not start and wasn't considered a one and done player.
I am loving the fact CAL dropped off. I guess all those great classes and only one title is now hitting him...
That was 2003 but that was before the one and done rule went into effect. I was just using stats since the rule went into effect and there has only been 3 champions with a one and done player on the roster.
What was UK's best class? I don't think anyone has ever gotten the top 3 recruits and 4 of the top 8 have they? That's pretty amazing!
But those teams are typically in the discussion..UK, Duke, Kansas, Arizona
You've been explained to over and over again, why that statistic is meaningless. Yet you continue to trot it out like it means something.
What is the matter with you?
Because I don't agree with you or those stats. What I see is that it proves that you don't have to have a roster full of one and done players to win the championship. I have said many times I don't want to build our program like UK or Duke and rather build it like Villanova has over the years. Even UNC has not had many one and done players and still have won a couple of championships since the one and done era began.
I guess I will just put you back on ignore since you have no clue what you are talking about. What is so hard for you to figure out is that only 3 out 13 champions has had one and done players on their roster. To me this says that 10 out of the 13 champions has not have any one and done players on them. You want stats that is 20% to 80% so I will take that 80% any day.
There is simply no pattern to how you win the NCAA'S. It's just survive and advance at the end of the day. Following the 2014-2015 season you could have made an argument at that time that Duke/Kentucky reloading with great talent year and year out was the new way to do it with UK'S 2012 title and then Duke's in 2015. ( Plus UK getting to the title game in 2014. ) But neither made any noise in the dance in 2016 and 2017 and it was teams with veterans that showed up at the Final Four.
So who the hell knows anymore.
So who the hell knows anymore.
What we've shown you, is that teams with at least one 1&D are far likelier to win a title than their peers without them. For everyone one of those 10 teams you like to tout, you have to also account for the hundreds of others schools that also don't have a 1&D that season. The 80/20 statistics is worthless because you can only compare 1&D teams against their peers and teams without 1&D's to their peers.
I don't remember the exact numbers but lets say those 3 1&D team are out of a pool of 60 teams that have ever had a 1&D or multiple in a given season.
3/60 = 5%
That means if you have at least one 1&D you have a 5% likelihood of winning a title in a given year. Obviously these odds go up with multiple 1&D's.
Compare that to
10/ 4260 (total of number of teams in a given season w/out a 1&D in the past 13 years)
= .2%
As you can see Scott, there is a correlation between 1&D's and championship success.
But go back to burying your head in the sand, because statistics conflate with your vision of what IUBB "Oughtta be".
The teams with one and dones have a better shot than most to win the title. Duke, UK, Arizona, Kansas all are in the discussion most years.
Don't take the bait Smitty. You'll end up trying to teach statistics to Scott while he pouts and screams about Villanova and North Carolina and 10/13.
I feel like a fool...
You do realize you are taking the entire field vs these programs right? Why don’t you look at he number of final 4’s, titles, runner ups compared to anyone else
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Breakdown of the starters for all champions since 2006
06 Florida 1 Junior 4 Sophomores
07 Florida 1 Senior 4 Juniors
08 Kansas 2 Seniors 2 Juniors 1 Sophomore
09 UNC 3 Seniors 2 Juniors
10 Duke 2 Seniors 2 Juniors 1 Sophomore
11 UCONN 2 Juniors 2 Sophomores 1 Freshman
12 UK 1 Senior 1 Sophomore 3 Freshman all one and done players
13 UL 1 Senior 3 Juniors 1 Sophomore
14 UCONN 1 senior 2 Juniors 2 Sophomores
15 Duke 1 Senior 1 Junior 3 Freshman all one and done players
16 Villanova 2 Seniors 2 Juniors 1 Freshman
17 UNC 2 Seniors 3 Juniors
To me this shows most of the champions have had a lot of experience and I feel this is what it takes to win the CHAMPIONSHIP. I am not talking about competing for a championship but winning it. I thought how all of the IU fans talk all that matters is winning the championship.
06 Florida 1 Junior 4 Sophomores
07 Florida 1 Senior 4 Juniors
08 Kansas 2 Seniors 2 Juniors 1 Sophomore
09 UNC 3 Seniors 2 Juniors
10 Duke 2 Seniors 2 Juniors 1 Sophomore
11 UCONN 2 Juniors 2 Sophomores 1 Freshman
12 UK 1 Senior 1 Sophomore 3 Freshman all one and done players
13 UL 1 Senior 3 Juniors 1 Sophomore
14 UCONN 1 senior 2 Juniors 2 Sophomores
15 Duke 1 Senior 1 Junior 3 Freshman all one and done players
16 Villanova 2 Seniors 2 Juniors 1 Freshman
17 UNC 2 Seniors 3 Juniors
To me this shows most of the champions have had a lot of experience and I feel this is what it takes to win the CHAMPIONSHIP. I am not talking about competing for a championship but winning it. I thought how all of the IU fans talk all that matters is winning the championship.
In the 9 years that Cal has coached, he has 1 banner, and that was very much influenced by the fact that the NBA lockout essentially forced a couple of his freshmen to return for their sophomore seasons. It was an aberration.
Taking that year out of the equation, there has been exactly 1 year that a team with mostly freshman won a title during Cal's 9 year run, and that was Duke's 2015 team.
Not seeing a "quite a few banners suggesting otherwise."
I’m pretty sure final fours also matter..In which, Uk, Duke and Kansas have the most recently. So answer this..who has the better program...uconn, Florida, Louisville...or Duke, Uk??
I agree whole heartedly. I don’t look at being a great program as solely being one that wins a championship. If we can consistently become a top 10 team that occasionally gets into an elite 8 we’ll get a shot at an NC. Yes, one and dones could help, but being a consistently good program doesn’t require it. I love programs like Nova, UNC, Wichita State, UVA, etc. for how they so routinely produce such a high level of ball and the fact that their fans know they will be highly competitive just about every year. Championships require lots of things that have nothing to do with one and dones i.e. health, tournament draw, being “hot” during the tournament, an unexpected player taking it to another level, etc.
The one and done model can work if you're doing what Duke is doing and you bring in 4 of the top 10 players each year. There is no way Archie can currently do that. That's why you're going to see him load up on 4 star guys in that 50-125 range and then mix in a 5 star or two now and then when he can get them. It's the best route we have for consistency.
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