Coronavirus

[sglowrider]

This I agree with. Americans would never tolerate the draconian measures required to contain a severe outbreak in the way that the Chinese and many other countries can implement. Plus, Americans have a certain arrogance about them that gets in the way of voluntarily locking themselves down. Everyone sees themselves and their own endeavors as "too important" to be interrupted.

That said, I think some of the more dire prognostications (such as the one linked by Cream&Crimson above) are probably a tad over the top. But who knows?

If any of you have been to China, its not the obvious 'police state' that most people who have never been there think it is. Same as Singapore. f

The difference between the two countries, in terms of responses to the Coronavirus outbreak/epidemic, is the difference of decisiveness and timelines.

The only reason why China took such a draconian solution of complete lockdown is simply that they waited way too long before responding. The slower the response, the more draconian the solution.

My daily life has not changed one iota here in Singapore. I did see fewer people on the streets or in the subways. (Actually its getting back to almost normal this week in terms of crowds.) They banned flights back in January.

Then track, mapped and isolated the 1st level contacts. Then managed the secondary contacts. Teams were in place -- from the pandemic playbook (lessons learnt from SARs) to tracing teams to getting the police involved in tracking 2nd level suspects to teams managing the food delivery for the secondary contacts home isolation.

In parallel, there has to be a communication and education programme from the gov't. The do's and don'ts. The need for self-responsibility is.

All this talk about ''freedom'' etc only highlights the shallowness of the concept of patriotism. Being American is supposed to entail concern for other fellow Americans.

If people dont give a feck about one another, you wonder why all that kneeling by a football player is so upsetting? Instead they are willing to die for some 'innate' object like a flag or a song instead of real people?
Arrogance is another issue. There are countries who have been in the frontline for months now. The idea of lessons learnt doesnt seem to come into play at all. They seem to think that everything is a uniquely American experience and therefore, requires the Americans to save the world, just like in the movies.

Edit:

Italy planning to quarantine entire Lombardy region

Italy plans to quarantine the entire Lombardy region – an area that includes the nation’s financial hub Milan – as well as Venice, in the most severe escalation of coronavirus-prevention measures to be taken outside of China.

Under a draft decree published by the Italian government, citizens will be unable to leave or enter the Lombardy region, while similar restrictions are extended in established “red zones” including Venice, Parma and Modena.

It came as:

• The respiratory illness spread to more than 90 countries, killing more than 3,400 people and infecting more than 100,000 worldwide.
• Cases in the UK rose to 209, with the family of the second person to die in the country after contracting the virus describing self-isolating as they attempted to grieve a “nightmare”
• Italian doctors warned medics across Europe to “get ready” while claiming a high percentage of cases are being admitted to intensive care

In its latest update the Italian government announced its largest daily increase in new cases, with 5,883 confirmed to have been infected by Covid-19, up from 4,636 the previous day. So far 589 have fully recovered.

The Lombardy, Veneto and Emilia Romagna regions represented 85 per cent of national cases and 92 per cent of the total 233 deaths confirmed in the country – however, cases have been recorded in each of the nation’s 20 regions, while deaths have been confirmed in eight of them.

The result has also had a knock-on effect on the Italian economy, with Rome pledging €7.5bn (£6.4bn) to tackle the consequences of the virus.


Like, the longer you take to start controlling the spread, the more draconian measures will be required.

 

[sglowrider]

https://metro.co.uk/2020/03/04/hiv-drug-successfully-treats-coronavirus-patient-spain-12338254/

Singapore has not lost a patient yet. 130+ cases in the past 2-3 months.

 

[mcmurtry66]

If any of you have been to China, its not the obvious 'police state' that most people who have never been there think it is. Same as Singapore. f

The difference between the two countries, in terms of responses to the Coronavirus outbreak/epidemic, is the difference of decisiveness and timelines.

The only reason why China took such a draconian solution of complete lockdown is simply that they waited way too long before responding. The slower the response, the more draconian the solution.

My daily life has not changed one iota here in Singapore. I did see fewer people on the streets or in the subways. (Actually its getting back to almost normal this week in terms of crowds.) They banned flights back in January.

Then track, mapped and isolated the 1st level contacts. Then managed the secondary contacts. Teams were in place -- from the pandemic playbook (lessons learnt from SARs) to tracing teams to getting the police involved in tracking 2nd level suspects to teams managing the food delivery for the secondary contacts home isolation.

In parallel, there has to be a communication and education programme from the gov't. The do's and don'ts. The need for self-responsibility is.

All this talk about ''freedom'' etc only highlights the shallowness of the concept of patriotism. Being American is supposed to entail concern for other fellow Americans.

If people dont give a feck about one another, you wonder why all that kneeling by a football player is so upsetting? Instead they are willing to die for some 'innate' object like a flag or a song instead of real people?

I have a buddy from law school living in singapore now. he said they took his temperatu

Singapore has not lost a patient yet. 130+ cases in the past 2-3 months.

i have a buddy living there. said he had his temperature taken twice during a round of golf. don't know if he was serious or not.

 

[sglowrider]

I was talking about the UK kid from sglow's that experienced death and then survived to write about it. That type of shit is doing nothing but fueling panic and overreaction.

No need to panic. But here are some facts for you.

South Korea had only 354 cases precisely 14 days ago.

Its now 7,041 cases. If your stock rose this high this steeply, you would be living the champagne life.

 

[sglowrider]

i have a buddy living there. said he had his temperature taken twice during a round of golf. don't know if he was serious or not.

Your temperature gets taken by people at public locations a lot -- from cinema to weddings. Self-responsibility. Cheaper than having outsourced security or health officials at every corner of the country doing it.

There is some investigation being down now for a newly developed cluster, a sudden bloom of nearly 30 new cases after being stable for a good month or so. A private dinner function was held at a quasi-military-owned (for former conscripts) golf club. They held the event but didn't practise what is normally SOP for epidemic management here now, especially at a quasi-government location. I think 8 people caught the virus at that event. So now each of the 8 cases is numbered, tracked, tracing of their contacts and the management of their isolation.

As for your buddy, I would take my temp playing golf here simply because of the fear of heatstroke. I stopped playing here because I got heat stroke a couple of times. Going north into Malaysia is a tad cooler but a whole lot cheaper too.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Your temperature gets taken by people at public locations a lot -- from cinema to weddings. Self-responsibility. Cheaper than having outsourced security or health officials at every corner of the country doing it.

There is some investigation being down now for a newly developed cluster, a sudden bloom of nearly 30 new cases after being stable for a good month or so. A private dinner function was held at a quasi-military-owned (for former conscripts) golf club. They held the event but didn't practise what is normally SOP for epidemic management here now, especially at a quasi-government location. I think 8 people caught the virus at that event. So now each of the 8 cases is numbered, tracked, tracing of their contacts and the management of their isolation.

As for your buddy, I would take my temp playing golf here simply because of the fear of heatstroke. I stopped playing here because I got heat stroke a couple of times. Going north into Malaysia is a tad cooler but a whole lot cheaper too.

very interesting. he loves singapore. native hoosier too.

 

[sglowrider]

very interesting. he loves singapore. native hoosier too.

The bottom line here is that there are zero natural resources. The only resource of value is the human kind. So every death is major loss.
I remember like 20 years ago, two subway trains crashed into each other -- some track switching problem. it was the talk of the town for weeks. ''How could this happen?' 'Incompetence' etc. Useless gov't.

The casualty was one guy lost a toe.

 

[iuwclurker]

Singapore has not lost a patient yet. 130+ cases in the past 2-3 months.

State-of-the-art labeling system? Shit, I lose my keys once a month.

 

[Bill4411]

If any of you have been to China, its not the obvious 'police state' that most people who have never been there think it is. Same as Singapore. f

The difference between the two countries, in terms of responses to the Coronavirus outbreak/epidemic, is the difference of decisiveness and timelines.

The only reason why China took such a draconian solution of complete lockdown is simply that they waited way too long before responding. The slower the response, the more draconian the solution.

My daily life has not changed one iota here in Singapore. I did see fewer people on the streets or in the subways. (Actually its getting back to almost normal this week in terms of crowds.) They banned flights back in January.

Then track, mapped and isolated the 1st level contacts. Then managed the secondary contacts. Teams were in place -- from the pandemic playbook (lessons learnt from SARs) to tracing teams to getting the police involved in tracking 2nd level suspects to teams managing the food delivery for the secondary contacts home isolation.

In parallel, there has to be a communication and education programme from the gov't. The do's and don'ts. The need for self-responsibility is.

All this talk about ''freedom'' etc only highlights the shallowness of the concept of patriotism. Being American is supposed to entail concern for other fellow Americans.

If people dont give a feck about one another, you wonder why all that kneeling by a football player is so upsetting? Instead they are willing to die for some 'innate' object like a flag or a song instead of real people?
Arrogance is another issue. There are countries who have been in the frontline for months now. The idea of lessons learnt doesnt seem to come into play at all. They seem to think that everything is a uniquely American experience and therefore, requires the Americans to save the world, just like in the movies.

Draconian...Trump will love that solution.

 

[mcmurtry66]

The bottom line here is that there are zero natural resources. The only resource of value is the human kind. So every death is major loss.
I remember like 20 years ago, two subway trains crashed into each other -- some track switching problem. it was the talk of the town for weeks. ''How could this happen?' 'Incompetence' etc. Useless gov't.

The casualty was one guy lost a toe.

That's amazing.

 

[sglowrider]

State-of-the-art labeling system? Shit, I lose my keys once a month.

Lessons from SARs. Maximum effort needs to be spent on the control of the spread. Communicate and educated to develop self-responsibility.

 

[sglowrider]

Draconian...Trump will love that solution.

He may get his wish, unintentionally or otherwise at the rate you guys are going.

COVID sweet spot:
People over 65 in the US: 52+million
People with Chronic diseases:40% of the population have chronics*

* Most COVID's chronic deaths to date have been with those with cardiovascular, respiratory, diabetes, hypertensive and cancer only

 

[sglowrider]

That's amazing.

I know.

I just moved here -- I was thinking WTF, only a toe. Not like someone went postal. Nervous Nellies all of them.

It was in the papers for days.

 

[mcmurtry66]

I know.

I just moved here -- I was thinking WTF, only a toe. Not like someone went postal. Nervous Nellies all of them.

It was in the papers for days.

I'm going to get over there one of these days. Your proximity to so many fascinating places is enviable.

 

[sglowrider]

I'm going to get over there one of these days. Your proximity to so many fascinating places is enviable.

Yes. I am one-two hours flight from different countries with different foods, religion, culture, economic development levels, political systems etc.
I have even flown down to Perth, Australia for a weekend golf trip. (Its nearer between Perth-Singapore than Perth-Sydney.) So it's not so uncommon when you see golf bags coming out of the airport's conveyor belts on Sunday nights or Monday mornings.

I used to cover Asia-Pacific wide and SE Asia. I love the SE Asia responsibility the best. You can hop on a flight with your computer bag and a passport -- and still be home for dinner.

 

[Noodle]

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

No need to panic. But here are some facts for you.

South Korea had only 354 cases precisely 14 days ago.

Its now 7,041 cases. If your stock rose this high this steeply, you would be living the champagne life.

with numbers that small, we wouldn’t even be listed on an exchange

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

Singapore has not lost a patient yet. 130+ cases in the past 2-3 months.

Using HIV pills?

 

[mcmurtry66]

Yes. I am one-two hours flight from different countries with different foods, religion, culture, economic development levels, political systems etc.
I have even flown down to Perth, Australia for a weekend golf trip. (Its nearer between Perth-Singapore than Perth-Sydney.) So it's not so uncommon when you see golf bags coming out of the airport's conveyor belts on Sunday nights or Monday mornings.

I used to cover Asia-Pacific wide and SE Asia. I love the SE Asia responsibility the best. You can hop on a flight with your computer bag and a passport -- and still be home for dinner.

My Singapore buddy goes to Australia often - his favorite place. Incidentally an ER friend just told me there’s a case in Saint Louis now. Add another state to the tally.

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

Lessons from SARs. Maximum effort needs to be spent on the control of the spread. Communicate and educated to develop self-responsibility.

If the Chinese would learn lessons from these outbreaks, the world wouldn’t have any problems to begin with. They are a disgrace.

 

[sglowrider]

Using HIV pills?

They have used a wide range of medical treatment incl HIV meds.

The key is that we have kept the numbers relatively low which has allowed us to isolate each patient in their own room and with 100% quality of care. The hospitals need to have very good hygiene too.

The most complex has been a migrant worker from Bangladesh. He has so far not responded to any of the conventional treatments. Youngish guy. But he does a pre-existing condition so they are treating that first, to maybe allow the conventional solution to kick in later.

 

[sglowrider]

If the Chinese would learn lessons from these outbreaks, the world wouldn’t have any problems to begin with. They are a disgrace.

As I have said to Hillz, there has been quite a number of pandemics over the past hundreds of years including the H1N1 pandemic which originated from North America.

Now is the time to point blame.... glasshouses and all.

Spend the effort to control the spread. The gov't has to lead but the people can contribute too.

Its a leadership issue.

 

[sglowrider]

My Singapore buddy goes to Australia often - his favorite place. Incidentally an ER friend just told me there’s a case in Saint Louis now. Add another state to the tally.

As my healthcare friends always say. ''it only takes one.'

 

[zeke4ahs]

He may get his wish, unintentionally or otherwise at the rate you guys are going.

COVID sweet spot:
People over 65 in the US: 52+million
People with Chronic diseases:40% of the population have chronics*

* Most COVID's chronic deaths to date have been with those with cardiovascular, respiratory, diabetes, hypertensive and cancer only

I know several people with COPD, a couple quite severe. I imagine they are staying in a lot.

 

[sglowrider]

with numbers that small, we wouldn’t even be listed on an exchange

As a famous Chinese philosopher, Lao Tzu said, A Journey of a Thousand Miles Begins with a Single Step.

 

[sglowrider]

I know several people with COPD, a couple quite severe. I imagine they are staying in a lot.

The way they track and map the various clusters here, we will all find who we infected at some stage. Then the guilt kicks in.

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

As I have said to Hillz, there has been quite a number of pandemics over the past hundreds of years including the H1N1 pandemic which originated from North America.

Now is the time to point blame.... glasshouses and all.

Spend the effort to control the spread. The gov't has to lead but the people can contribute too.

Its a leadership issue.

the lethality is quite different between the shit coming from third world China and Africa and everywhere else. Italy should tell China to fvck off forever.

 

[sglowrider]

the lethality is quite different between the shit coming from third world China and Africa and everywhere else. Italy should tell China to fvck off forever.

They can't afford to when China owns half of Italy by now. Australia too.

I think lethality is relative. If it originates from North America, the healthcare infrastructure there will be able to cope. But that same North American virus may be more lethal in 3rd or 4th world countries, killing a lot more than say in North America.

 

[HillzHoozier]

China owns half of Italy by now. Australia too.

Time to cash in and buy some chickens!

 

[sglowrider]

State-of-the-art labeling system? Shit, I lose my keys once a month.

Found a video of one of the contact tracers:




Tracing is critical to the success story here. I have posted a web/map of all the various clusters here that these tracers plus police detectives had developed.

https://infographics.channelnewsasi...??cid=h3_referral_inarticlelinks_24082018_cna

https://www.moh.gov.sg/news-highlights/details/twelve-new-cases-of-covid-19-infection-confirmed

With this linkages, you can try and pro-actively control the spread as much as possible.

 

[MonroeCity]

Info we received about 10 days ago (yes, I know this is an evolving situation):
This coronavirus is though to be transmitted by respiratory secretions....similar to other coronaviruses, such as SARS and MERS.
Put the risk in perspective to help calm worried patients...since it doesn't come close to the risk of influenza.
So far, there's a handful of patients in the U.S. with COVID-19. But over 35 million patients got the flu last season...with about 500,000 hospitalizations and 34,000 deaths.
Reinforce proper hand hygiene. Explain that frequent handwashing with soap and water is the best bet. Advise washing for 20 seconds.
If that's not practical, suggest using a hand sanitizer with at least 60% alcohol. They're effective against enveloped viruses, such as coronaviruses...but aren't yet proven to kill COVID-19.
Use a disinfectant spray or wipe to clean counters, phones, etc.
Clear up mask confusion. Caution that unnecessary use is leading to shortages. Plus masks only work along with hand hygiene.
Discourage masks for most people without symptoms. Masks are too loose to keep all germs out...and viruses can get in through the eyes.
If patients ask about N95 respirators, point out these masks require fitting...and are hard to wear for more than a few minutes.
But it's okay if patients with respiratory symptoms want to wear a surgical mask to help contain secretions...especially if in contact with infants, elderly, or immunocompromised people.
I'm sure this is redundant for some folks but just wanted to post what the info given to healthcare workers.
I'm also sure we will see revisions.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Since Jim Banker has announced his silver gel cures COVID-19, why are we even worried?

 

[sglowrider]

Since Jim Banker has announced his silver gel cures COVID-19, why are we even worried?

If only I had known, I would have got the distributorship for Singapore. Its too late now.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Info we received about 10 days ago (yes, I know this is an evolving situation):
This coronavirus is though to be transmitted by respiratory secretions....similar to other coronaviruses, such as SARS and MERS.
Put the risk in perspective to help calm worried patients...since it doesn't come close to the risk of influenza.
So far, there's a handful of patients in the U.S. with COVID-19. But over 35 million patients got the flu last season...with about 500,000 hospitalizations and 34,000 deaths.
Reinforce proper hand hygiene. Explain that frequent handwashing with soap and water is the best bet. Advise washing for 20 seconds.
If that's not practical, suggest using a hand sanitizer with at least 60% alcohol. They're effective against enveloped viruses, such as coronaviruses...but aren't yet proven to kill COVID-19.
Use a disinfectant spray or wipe to clean counters, phones, etc.
Clear up mask confusion. Caution that unnecessary use is leading to shortages. Plus masks only work along with hand hygiene.
Discourage masks for most people without symptoms. Masks are too loose to keep all germs out...and viruses can get in through the eyes.
If patients ask about N95 respirators, point out these masks require fitting...and are hard to wear for more than a few minutes.
But it's okay if patients with respiratory symptoms want to wear a surgical mask to help contain secretions...especially if in contact with infants, elderly, or immunocompromised people.
I'm sure this is redundant for some folks but just wanted to post what the info given to healthcare workers.
I'm also sure we will see revisions.

Personal responsibility and consideration for the welfare of others has to become paramount. We have a new case where i live. 20 yr old girl as i understand it was in italy, flew to chicago, then took the amtrak here. in my view it's risky and irresponsible to get on an amtrak train after traveling to a high risk area. drive. rent a car. something.

 

[MonroeCity]

Personal responsibility and consideration for the welfare of others has to become paramount. We have a new case where i live. 20 yr old girl as i understand it was in italy, flew to chicago, then took the amtrak here. in my view it's risky and irresponsible to get on an amtrak train after traveling to a high risk area. drive. rent a car. something.

Personal responsibility is #1 in almost all walks of life

 

[HillzHoozier]

Personal responsibility is #1 in almost all walks of life

Except for student loans or health insurance, of course.

 

[Cortez88]

Except for student loans or health insurance, of course.

Or building a professional sports arena.

 

[meridian]

Except for student loans or health insurance, of course.

Why did you take student loans and health insurance in the first place? Did you expect them to be free?

 

[HillzHoozier]

Why did you take student loans and health insurance in the first place? Did you expect them to be free?

Not me. I work for a living.

 

[sglowrider]

Not a good sign:

As coronavirus overwhelms California health officials, hopes for containment fade

Everything sounds as though they are always a step behind. Reactive and not proactive. At some point, it would be almost impossible to map the spread in order to control it. Like some uncontrollable wife fire. Fatalistic.

The other thing that's consistent is the lack of communication.