Condemned With Faint Praise

[Fred C. Dobbs]

The following is from an online, Sports Illustrated article, "Ranking Every Team in College Baskletball, From Arizona (No. 1) to Mississippi Valley State (No. 351)". Here is the link: https://www.si.com/college-basketba...tm_campaign=si-extra&utm_content=2017103112PM.

"Archie Miller’s first Indiana (No. 46) squad won’t be representative of his tenure in Bloomington; he needs some time to replenish the roster with hand-picked recruits. But the former Dayton head coach can get Indiana to the Big Dance this season. Our model pegs the Hoosiers as the worst team to claim an at-large bid."

Let's plan to meet in Dayton for the play-in game against Marquette / Texas / Texas Tech.

 

[76-1]

Ouch...

 

[blue-et-blanc]

I think this is a fair external assessment of the team. I would expect that most people do not think we will make the tournament.

I hope for significantly better, but experts should not base their decisions on my hopes.

 

[YOTHN]

I think this is a fair external assessment of the team. I would expect that most people do not think we will make the tournament.

I hope for significantly better, but experts should not base their decisions on my hopes.

I agree. I mean some are saying we finish 12th in the B1G and play opening day of the B1G tournament. I love the low expectations so we can enjoy the ride up. If we finish 10th, people are kind of expecting that. If we do better, recruits will take notice. We have a tough schedule but all it takes is stealing a few key wins and suddenly we have a tournament ready resume. A good defense will keep us in most games so I think we finish top 8 in the B1G and sneak into the dance with 12-13 losses due to a late run in the B1G tourney.

 

[kkott]

I think this is a fair external assessment of the team. I would expect that most people do not think we will make the tournament.

I hope for significantly better, but experts should not base their decisions on my hopes.

I absolutely think that's a reasonable assessment/expectation. Making the tournament, with a new coach and system, tougher schedule and the loss of 3 pro talents would be an accomplishment. IMO,we have good, but unproven players on our roster, and mostly role players in the past not top end talent and leaders. Johnson, Morgan and Hartman are all solid but have always been role players, and Davis, Green and Jones were all freshmen backups last year. OG, TB and JBJr, regardless if they played how you liked, were significant bball talents and the scoring leaders. While I believe we'll be under a much better coach and system, it will take awhile to get everyone on the same page and he still needs talent to win at a high level. Getting to the tournament this year would be a really solid season given all of that, imo.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

I think this is a fair external assessment of the team. I would expect that most people do not think we will make the tournament.

I hope for significantly better, but experts should not base their decisions on my hopes.

That's about where I am.

I don't expect very much this season. We lost a lot of our production. We have a new coaching staff and a new system. While I'm hoping to see good things from our newcomers, I'm not expecting any of them to be all-B10 type players. I certainly hope that we punch above our weight. But I'm not going to be terribly let down if we don't.

I wouldn't call this a marathon, but it certainly isn't a sprint. It's more like the 1500M.

 

[IU Hardcore]

I was a little more optimistic before I watched the marian game.
Yes, I know it is a very small sample size.
I am definitely not down on the team or the season. I just expected to see a little more to be excited about.
No matter which way it goes, I will still support the team & the coach.
I'm hoping to see some things in the next game to restore my optimism.

 

[ORG]

I think this is a fair external assessment of the team. I would expect that most people do not think we will make the tournament.

I hope for significantly better, but experts should not base their decisions on my hopes.

Those are pretty much my thoughts too . . . I want to se several games before I will feel comfy evaluating this team, especially with a new coach, losing three key players and a new system for the players to learn.

 

[T.M.P.]

I will feel comfy evaluating this team,

You evaluated Crean as competent for nine years. Not sure anyone is holding their breath anticipating your assessment.

 

[jwboiler]

The following is from an online, Sports Illustrated article, "Ranking Every Team in College Baskletball, From Arizona (No. 1) to Mississippi Valley State (No. 351)". Here is the link: https://www.si.com/college-basketba...tm_campaign=si-extra&utm_content=2017103112PM.

"Archie Miller’s first Indiana (No. 46) squad won’t be representative of his tenure in Bloomington; he needs some time to replenish the roster with hand-picked recruits. But the former Dayton head coach can get Indiana to the Big Dance this season. Our model pegs the Hoosiers as the worst team to claim an at-large bid."

Let's plan to meet in Dayton for the play-in game against Marquette / Texas / Texas Tech.

I would think if Miller gets you to the NCAA’s, that would be a very successful first year.

 

[rikki-tikka-tava]

I love the low expectations so we can enjoy the ride up.

Amen. Sort of perversely pleased that IU didn't receive a single vote in either of the pre-Season top 25 polls. Do wish the SH game was at Home but is what it is.

 

[kkott]

Amen. Sort of perversely pleased that IU didn't receive a single vote in either of the pre-Season top 25 polls. Do wish the SH game was at Home but is what it is.

But why would we? Again, we didn't even make the tournament last year and lost 3 pro talents and replaced them with 3 lower ranked freshmen and Colin Hartman. I think anyone who expects us to make the tournament or finish better than that has unrealistic expectations for a first year with a new system and coach. I think there's a good chance the players will rally around CAM's coaching but there's also likely to be some tough sledding too.

 

[IU Scott]

But why would we? Again, we didn't even make the tournament last year and lost 3 pro talents and replaced them with 3 lower ranked freshmen and Colin Hartman. I think anyone who expects us to make the tournament or finish better than that has unrealistic expectations for a first year with a new system and coach. I think there's a good chance the players will rally around CAM's coaching but there's also likely to be some tough sledding too.

It is called intangibles and team chemistry which I feel this years team will have. I think the distraction of the cloud over Crean's job status is gone. I just feel that some of the guys that left just did not mesh well with the rest of the team.

 

[iubud]

Experts are

The following is from an online, Sports Illustrated article, "Ranking Every Team in College Baskletball, From Arizona (No. 1) to Mississippi Valley State (No. 351)". Here is the link: https://www.si.com/college-basketba...tm_campaign=si-extra&utm_content=2017103112PM.

"Archie Miller’s first Indiana (No. 46) squad won’t be representative of his tenure in Bloomington; he needs some time to replenish the roster with hand-picked recruits. But the former Dayton head coach can get Indiana to the Big Dance this season. Our model pegs the Hoosiers as the worst team to claim an at-large bid."

Let's plan to meet in Dayton for the play-in game against Marquette / Texas / Texas Tech.

Everyone should take a wait and see approach. There is no way to rank us at anywhere at this point. I have looked at this from what we have lost and what we have gained. I think more use and improvement of players like Green, Cujo, and Davis can help offset the loss of Bryant and JBJ. OG was lost early and I wait to see if any of the freshmen can partially offset him early and turn into what he provided at the end of his freshman year. Hartman can provide some needed production, but we have to wait like all the other changes to see how much that contributes.

I am hopeful that a focus on defense and valuing the ball will further offset losses from last year and allow for an improvement. That is difficult to measure before the season begins. A few more stops in every game and/or a few less turnovers can make a big difference on your record.

 

[rikki-tikka-tava]

But why would we? Again, we didn't even make the tournament last year and lost 3 pro talents and replaced them with 3 lower ranked freshmen and Colin Hartman. I think anyone who expects us to make the tournament or finish better than that has unrealistic expectations for a first year with a new system and coach. I think there's a good chance the players will rally around CAM's coaching but there's also likely to be some tough sledding too.

Pvt. Buzzkill reporting in with the world according to conventional wisdom. Sigh. Yep, don't see why they should even play the games since any expectation other than yours is "unrealistic".

Deliver me from the unimaginative. "Why"? Because its Indiana. And just for the record, JBJ and TB are not "pro talents", their current contracts with NBA teams notwithstanding. Neither has a roster spot at present and both are likely to be in Europe or elsewhere within two years although Bryant may hang around a bit longer at the end of someone's bench.

 

[kkott]

Pvt. Buzzkill reporting in with the world according to conventional wisdom. Sigh. Yep, don't see why they should even play the games since any expectation other than yours is "unrealistic".

Deliver me from the unimaginative. "Why"? Because its Indiana. And just for the record, JBJ and TB are not "pro talents", their current contracts with NBA teams notwithstanding. Neither has a roster spot at present and both are likely to be in Europe or elsewhere within two years although Bryant may hang around a bit longer at the end of someone's bench.

You may be the most condescending poster on here: congratulations? I think we have a very wide array of possible outcomes, and in fact my personal prediction is that we will sneak in to the tourney as described. But I don't see why anyone would have that expectation. We lost 3 pro talents. I specifically didn't state NBA talents because I'm not sure of that, but they are all pro talents by definition of their current contracts and they're gonna get paid to play ball for awhile barring injury.

I just don't want to see folks expectations built up too much in case it takes this team longer to come around. We could be around 500 and still have the perfect coach and that outcome would be very understandable if things don't break well (what if Davis or Morgan have an injury for instance?). It may be Indiana, and in pretty short order, it will be CAM's IN, but he didn't have much of a chance to influence this roster and my expectations of tourney results will all come after this year, as they will for any reasonable person or poster, as evidenced by the fact that we didn't get any preseason top 25 votes from folks paid to analyze and comment on this. Enjoy having an exciting and knowledgeable bball coach and an improved style of play, but save the tourney expectations for when they are fair.

 

[rikki-tikka-tava]

You may be the most condescending poster on here: congratulations? I think we have a very wide array of possible outcomes, and in fact my personal prediction is that we will sneak in to the tourney as described. But I don't see why anyone would have that expectation.

Not even close, but you make it pretty easy to seem so. Like this:

"...my personal prediction is that we will sneak in to the tourney as described. But I don't see why anyone would have that expectation."

Confused much? So it's ok for you to think that but if anyone else does they're "unrealistic"? Sure, whatever.

 

[mobilehoosier]

We'll be better than expected but thin inside. None of those guys know anything. They just create chatter to sell stuff.
I don't pay attention to anything but W's and L's and the cheerleaders. Massive grin!

 

[rocketo]

The following is from an online, Sports Illustrated article, "Ranking Every Team in College Baskletball, From Arizona (No. 1) to Mississippi Valley State (No. 351)". Here is the link: https://www.si.com/college-basketba...tm_campaign=si-extra&utm_content=2017103112PM.

"Archie Miller’s first Indiana (No. 46) squad won’t be representative of his tenure in Bloomington; he needs some time to replenish the roster with hand-picked recruits. But the former Dayton head coach can get Indiana to the Big Dance this season. Our model pegs the Hoosiers as the worst team to claim an at-large bid."

Let's plan to meet in Dayton for the play-in game against Marquette / Texas / Texas Tech.

I can agree with this. Lot of lost production and a young team. We could be much better if Hartman is back to his normal self and we see rapid improvement in the team as they improve understanding of the new system and build better chemistry. But there are a lot of moving parts and I am just excited to see the improvements and the rebuild of a team that I feel will better represent what we grew up knowing was IU basketball.

 

[kkott]

Not even close, but you make it pretty easy to seem so. Like this:

"...my personal prediction is that we will sneak in to the tourney as described. But I don't see why anyone would have that expectation."

Confused much? So it's ok for you to think that but if anyone else does they're "unrealistic"? Sure, whatever.

You are the one who is confused. First you don't seem to understand the definition of professional, and are defining it wrongly as " only playing in the NBA" in this context, whereas I specifically said "pro-level talent" because I don't know if they'll all make it in the NBA over the long haul, but definitely believe they will all get paid to play somewhere for a long time to come barring injury, as evidenced by the PRO contracts all have signed. Secondly, there is a difference between personal beliefs or desires and community expectations. One is based on hope and I'll be happy if they achieve, but not at all surprised if they don't. The other would be a disappointment if they don't achieve. My point is, it's reasonable to hope that we might make the tournament, but not reasonable to expect that with a new coach and system, and losing all the talent we lost from last year's squad. Not a hard concept to understand. I don't want to see people develop unrealistic expectations about this squad or coach. We may struggle with a .500 record and totally have the right coach in place. In fact, in terms of expectations, that's what the circumstances point to more logically than making the tourney.

 

[rikki-tikka-tava]

You are the one who is confused. First you don't seem to understand the definition of professional, and are defining it wrongly as " only playing in the NBA" in this context, whereas I specifically said "pro-level talent" because I don't know if they'll all make it in the NBA over the long haul, but definitely believe they will all get paid to play somewhere for a long time to come barring injury, as evidenced by the PRO contracts all have signed. Secondly, there is a difference between personal beliefs or desires and community expectations. One is based on hope and I'll be happy if they achieve, but not at all surprised if they don't. The other would be a disappointment if they don't achieve. My point is, it's reasonable to hope that we might make the tournament, but not reasonable to expect that with a new coach and system, and losing all the talent we lost from last year's squad. Not a hard concept to understand. I don't want to see people develop unrealistic expectations about this squad or coach. We may struggle with a .500 record and totally have the right coach in place. In fact, in terms of expectations, that's what the circumstances point to more logically than making the tourney.

Yawn. Only one real standard for "pro" unless you imagine every young hoopster grows up dreaming of playing for the Guangdong Fighting Chickens.

If you'd come down out of your 'literal' tree we wouldn't even be communicating. I responded to a poster anticipating an unheralded IU team's "ride up" (from obscurity) by saying said I was similarly sort of pleased that IU didn't get any votes in the press-seaon polls and you chose to interpret that to mean I expected them to followed by some tired verbiage repeated every season by every fanbase/media/wannabe hoop blogger regarding a new coach:

"I think anyone who expects us to make the tournament or finish better than that has unrealistic expectations for a first year with a new system and coach. I think there's a good chance the players will rally around CAM's coaching but there's also likely to be some tough sledding too.outlet/wannabe hoops blogger." Total snooze. And your recent is more of the same crowned with:

"I don't want to see people develop unrealistic expectations about this squad or coach."

Why on Earth would you or anyone want/presume to "manage expectations"? I am indeed at times condescending as you aver but lyric as well, and the former is generally in response to naked ignorance, or in this case, condescension like yours that imagines you need to manage what I or others think/expect. 'Impossible' describes every great thing that's ever been done. Based on your missive above, perhaps our "personal" aspirations for this year's Team are not so different even if I categorically reject the notion of "community expectations" in the context of this Board.

Peace. Have a great week.

 

[CalbertFan]

Yawn. Only one real standard for "pro" unless you imagine every young hoopster grows up dreaming of playing for the Guangdong Fighting Chickens.

LOL!!

 

[kkott]

Yawn. Only one real standard for "pro" unless you imagine every young hoopster grows up dreaming of playing for the Guangdong Fighting Chickens.

If you'd come down out of your 'literal' tree we wouldn't even be communicating. I responded to a poster anticipating an unheralded IU team's "ride up" (from obscurity) by saying said I was similarly sort of pleased that IU didn't get any votes in the press-seaon polls and you chose to interpret that to mean I expected them to followed by some tired verbiage repeated every season by every fanbase/media/wannabe hoop blogger regarding a new coach:

"I think anyone who expects us to make the tournament or finish better than that has unrealistic expectations for a first year with a new system and coach. I think there's a good chance the players will rally around CAM's coaching but there's also likely to be some tough sledding too.outlet/wannabe hoops blogger." Total snooze. And your recent is more of the same crowned with:

"I don't want to see people develop unrealistic expectations about this squad or coach."

Why on Earth would you or anyone want/presume to "manage expectations"? I am indeed at times condescending as you aver but lyric as well, and the former is generally in response to naked ignorance, or in this case, condescension like yours that imagines you need to manage what I or others think/expect. 'Impossible' describes every great thing that's ever been done. Based on your missive above, perhaps our "personal" aspirations for this year's Team are not so different even if I categorically reject the notion of "community expectations" in the context of this Board.

Peace. Have a great week.

Really? I'd like for you to tell someone who sacrifices for their family by going overseas, often making hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars, and has no other employment, they aren't a professional. Or someone, as Christian Watford has, that devotes themselves to making it to the NBA by toiling in the D league, they're not a pro. You're right, only 1 definition exists, and it ain't yours.

The reason I'd ask people to have reasonable expectations, is because it's quite likely that this team will struggle. Read just about everyone's review of the exhibition games, and whats the glaring takeaway: this team is probably going to struggle to score. And, it's not really fair to ask any different, given that CAM's roster was essentially set when he took the job and he did an outstanding job by retaining all team members and commitments. 1 injury to Davis, or Morgan or Johnson and this season becomes a total crapshoot. Success really should be measured by progress in implementing CAM's system, not W-L's this year.

Save your grandiose talk about accomplishing the impossible. 1) we're talking bball here, not curing cancer or rocket science, and 2) we're fans, nothing we're doing on here is amazing or impossible. There were petitions to remove both Dean Smith and Coach K early in their tenure, and I don't want to see fools asking if CAM is the right guy if he continues on the track he's on, which to me is nearly perfect. Funny that you reject the idea of "community expectations" on a fan board, which is essentially the main purpose.

 

[rikki-tikka-tava]

Really? I'd like for you to tell someone who sacrifices for their family by going overseas, often making hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars, and has no other employment, they aren't a professional. Or someone, as Christian Watford has, that devotes themselves to making it to the NBA by toiling in the D league, they're not a pro. You're right, only 1 definition exists, and it ain't yours.

The reason I'd ask people to have reasonable expectations, is because it's quite likely that this team will struggle. Read just about everyone's review of the exhibition games, and whats the glaring takeaway: this team is probably going to struggle to score. And, it's not really fair to ask any different, given that CAM's roster was essentially set when he took the job and he did an outstanding job by retaining all team members and commitments. 1 injury to Davis, or Morgan or Johnson and this season becomes a total crapshoot. Success really should be measured by progress in implementing CAM's system, not W-L's this year.

Save your grandiose talk about accomplishing the impossible. 1) we're talking bball here, not curing cancer or rocket science, and 2) we're fans, nothing we're doing on here is amazing or impossible. There were petitions to remove both Dean Smith and Coach K early in their tenure, and I don't want to see fools asking if CAM is the right guy if he continues on the track he's on, which to me is nearly perfect. Funny that you reject the idea of "community expectations" on a fan board, which is essentially the main purpose.

Obviously they're professionals as well but "sacrifice" predicting on making hundreds of thousands/millions of dollars doing something one loves? Oh yeah, I feel their pain.

I appreciate reasonable expectations as much as the next but that's different than telling others what they should and shouldn't think, or dismissing hope because you receive it to be dangerous to the Program. Also not aware that possibility is specific to whatever you say it is. As far as mitigating calls for CAM's early removal because maybe he doesn't hit out of the park in his first couple at bats, no argument, but allow that was hardly clear/apparent in your first response.

As for "community expectations" being "essentially the main purpose" of a fan board, says whom? See how one could think so but didn't get that memo and sounds to me like expecting consensus from such is a circumstance even more problematic than herding cats. Each to thine own here, especially as what passes here has little bearing on the real.