This may interest some

[mcmurtry66]

Judges of both parties, too.

You want to talk about a danger to democracy? Let’s all stop delegitimizing the judiciary by calling every decision we don’t like a partisan ploy, devoid of law. Like Raskin’s preemptive attack that Cosmic posted.

Absolutely both parties. Took a lot to get where they are and they aren’t going to just sell out. Those people live and love the law. Way more money doing other stuff. They’re believers

 

[TommyCracker]

Heartrending story, no doubt. I’d rather focus on statistics than stories. Did you look up any statistics? What do they tell you?

The American Bar Association states that...

On any given day, nearly half a million people languish in jail cells across the country waiting for their cases to move forward. People detained pretrial now make up more than two-thirds of America’s jail population.

So the question is do we believe in innocent til proven guilty or is it guilty until proven innocent?

Because even you have to admit that being thrown in jail for months before we can determine if you're guilty or innocent is pretty f#$ked up and can absolutely destroy a person's life.

Obviously violent crimes are a different matter (and I'm not sure if the no cash bail thing even applies for accusations of violent crimes).

My guess is that propaganda sites are using the power of conflation and saying that violent, dark skinned animals are just killing people and then being set free to kill more because of the woke push to eliminate bail requirements.

On that point, the argument starts with equitable bail vs equal bail, as obviously a $1000 bail is annoying for me but not an issue whereas it could be insurmountable to someone who's dirt poor. I should be charged something equitable like say....$50,000 to $100,000 bail. That would be significantly more than annoying.

Anyway if you really want to go down the rabbit hole the bail system can be argued is just a cog in the industrialized slavery system that's been around since the 13th amendment (where it states you have rights 'unless you commit a crime', so we exploited that loophole, arrested 1000's of black people on minor charges like vagrancy or swearing, and sentenced them to prison labor to pay off their debts, giving private companies the free labor that they wanted).

But let's not go there. Lol

 

[mcmurtry66]

The American Bar Association states that...

On any given day, nearly half a million people languish in jail cells across the country waiting for their cases to move forward. People detained pretrial now make up more than two-thirds of America’s jail population.

So the question is do we believe in innocent til proven guilty or is it guilty until proven innocent?

Because even you have to admit that being thrown in jail for months before we can determine if you're guilty or innocent is pretty f#$ked up and can absolutely destroy a person's life.

Obviously violent crimes are a different matter (and I'm not sure if the no cash bail thing even applies for accusations of violent crimes).

My guess is that propaganda sites are using the power of conflation and saying that violent, dark skinned animals are just killing people and then being set free to kill more because of the woke push to eliminate bail requirements.

On that point, the argument starts with equitable bail vs equal bail, as obviously a $1000 bail is annoying for me but not an issue whereas it could be insurmountable to someone who's dirt poor. I should be charged something equitable like say....$50,000 to $100,000 bail. That would be significantly more than annoying.

Anyway if you really want to go down the rabbit hole the bail system can be argued is just a cog in the industrialized slavery system that's been around since the 13th amendment (where it states you have rights 'unless you commit a crime', so we exploited that loophole, arrested 1000's of black people on minor charges like vagrancy or swearing, and sentenced them to prison labor to pay off their debts, giving private companies the free labor that they wanted).

But let's not go there. Lol

Tommy c how long people are “languishing” matters. Bail isn’t punishment. It’s to ensure defendants show up at hearings and trials and to protect the public if the bad actor is dangerous.

The propaganda stuff you mention is absurd. It just happened here. Bail project got a guy out and he murdered someone. Happened in Indy. This is reality. And as for dark skinned animals that’s the vast majority of violent criminals in cities that are dangerous

That’s just reality. Here’s an idea. Stop committing crimes. Stop being victims. Demand more accountability. These are hardly people to feel sorry for. I read that and think half a million victims are out there. I doubt they care if the bad guy spends a week in jail waiting for the confined docket to get called

What’s hilarious is you can prepay a bondsman (like credit) so that if you do something bad in the future you’re ready to go 🤣

From car theft to murder: Bail project’s intervention sparks controversy

An out-of-state bail reform organization is now in the spotlight, following its actions in helping free a man from jail who is now accused as the Clayton killer.

www.yahoo.com

 

[TommyCracker]

Habba is an idiot. Sexy, but an idiot. I guarantee she actually hurt Trump’s chances by saying that, although Kavanaugh will ultimately decide the case the way he thinks best fits the Constitution.

If Trump is surrounded by syncophants and loyalists in the Executive Branch, that doesn’t threaten democracy in our nation. In fact, our system is designed that way, even if I agree that’s not the best way to proceed and will end up hurting Trumps chances of achieving what he sets out to do.

But you still have a Congress, and still have an independent judiciary, not to mention electoral accountability for the government’s actions. You still have a federal system, that devolves power away from the feds and to the states. And you still have a military leadership steeped in our history and culture, most are respectful of civilian rule over them, and unwilling to participate in a coup.

He already created Schedule F with one of his last executive orders, that gives him the power basically to determine who is loyal to him and who is loyal to the constitution...and gives him the power to replace them if he sees fit.

He's slamming home the message that there will be mass deportations and even kids born in this country are not safe if their parents are not.

He says he's going to arrest the homeless, which is funny but cruel and shows his autocratian bent.

He says he will seek retribution for those that wronged him....meaning obviously go after his political opponents regardless if there's merit (why do you believe he's constantly saying he's just a victim of a witch-hunt if not to prep for the justification of literally going after his opponents like every great dictator has done).

The shock of the Trump phenomenon is we haven't had such a brazen wannabe authoritarian in my lifetime. Did McCarthy ever run? Lindbergh did and found a base.

And yet those that support him tend to laugh it off as not serious and people are just over reacting.

We literally saw him do nothing when the Capitol was rioted on by his supporters. Nothing. For hours, the only thing he said was basically Mike Pence failed to do what was needed.

Turns out the 'go home' message was sent by an aide.

And yet here he is dominating the field again.

How much do you want to bet that Trump's cabinet will consist of some formulation of Miller his border tzar, Flynn his sec of defense, Clark or Patel his AG....yikes.

Remember that the overwhelming amount of dictators got their initial power legitimately. They didn't take over the military and behead the previous king....they are almost always given power and then figure out how to keep it.

That's the core belief from my perspective of democracy is on the line.

 

[TommyCracker]

Tommy c how long people are “languishing” matters. Bail isn’t punishment. It’s to ensure defendants show up at hearings and trials and to protect the public if the bad actor is dangerous.

The propaganda stuff you mention is absurd. It just happened here. Bail project got a guy out and he murdered someone. Happened in Indy. This is reality. And as for dark skinned animals that’s the vast majority of violent criminals in cities that are dangerous

That’s just reality. Here’s an idea. Stop committing crimes. Stop being victims. Demand more accountability. These are hardly people to feel sorry for. I read that and think half a million victims are out there. I doubt they care if the bad guy spends a week in jail waiting for the confined docket to get called

What’s hilarious is you can prepay a bondsman (like credit) so that if you do something bad in the future you’re ready to go 🤣

From car theft to murder: Bail project’s intervention sparks controversy

An out-of-state bail reform organization is now in the spotlight, following its actions in helping free a man from jail who is now accused as the Clayton killer.

www.yahoo.com

Again I admit I'm not sure if no cash bail applies to violent crime charges.

If they do then yeah, that's dumb as f#$k.

Is that what's going on or are they stories of dudes doing petty stuff and then being released to do a much more violent one.

That doesn't make sense as far as logic.

I'm sure it happens but like you said about Marv's example, what is a pattern and what is a random probability?

Maybe there's a two or three day cool off period needed? I don't know.

Maybe there's a common sense clause of first or second time offender benefits cuz I could see a dude knowing that he's looking at serious jail time going out in a blaze, maybe.

The ABA did state that for the purpose of showing up to trial, those states that implemented a no cash bail didn't see any decrease in no shows.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Habba is an idiot. Sexy, but an idiot. I guarantee she actually hurt Trump’s chances by saying that, although Kavanaugh will ultimately decide the case the way he thinks best fits the Constitution.

If Trump is surrounded by syncophants and loyalists in the Executive Branch, that doesn’t threaten democracy in our nation. In fact, our system is designed that way, even if I agree that’s not the best way to proceed and will end up hurting Trumps chances of achieving what he sets out to do.

But you still have a Congress, and still have an independent judiciary, not to mention electoral accountability for the government’s actions. You still have a federal system, that devolves power away from the feds and to the states. And you still have a military leadership steeped in our history and culture, most are respectful of civilian rule over them, and unwilling to participate in a coup.

You missed part of my explanation, congress may well be controlled by sycophants. Basically anyone not pro Trump is gone from the House GOP.

As to the courts, to paraphrase Stalin, how many divisions does the Supreme Court have? We see this in Ohio, the governor and legislature flat out ignore court rulings. Read below, the Ohio Supreme Court refused to find the commission in contempt because it would trigger a constitutional crisis

Dubious distinction for Ohio GOP leaders: Only ones in US to ignore a court order

Ohio's current congressional district maps, which the state Supreme Court has ruled are unconstitutionally gerrymandered for the GOP (Ohio Redistricting Commis

www.google.com

Again, I think the odds are quite low. But a willing Congress and an EB filled with sycophants will raise a question, how many divisions do the courts have? I do not know any provision that would allow the military to step in and stop a rogue president. They may not help the president, but I know of no provision allowing the Supreme Court to activate them to arrest a president.

Plus, I bet there are military men willing to accept promotions that are enamored by Trump.

If, and again I don't know it is true, if Trump really plans his retribution tour, he would also start putting sycophants into the courts.

We really shouldn't elect people who claim they want to ignore all law and precedent. They may well just be braggadocios gasbags as I suspect Trump is. But you nor I can PROVE that is all Trump is. If we do, and elect a totally sympathetic House, the number of guardrails left are very few.

 

[jet812]

Again I admit I'm not sure if no cash bail applies to violent crime charges.

If they do then yeah, that's dumb as f#$k.

Is that what's going on or are they stories of dudes doing petty stuff and then being released to do a much more violent one.

That doesn't make sense as far as logic.

I'm sure it happens but like you said about Marv's example, what is a pattern and what is a random probability?

Maybe there's a two or three day cool off period needed? I don't know.

Maybe there's a common sense clause of first or second time offender benefits cuz I could see a dude knowing that he's looking at serious jail time going out in a blaze, maybe.

The ABA did state that for the purpose of showing up to trial, those states that implemented a no cash bail didn't see any decrease in no shows.

Were you able to find any statistics on the number of crimes committed & the percentage of people released on no bail who commit subsequent crimes are? What is the percentage of people languishing in jail cells that are innocent or that are let out immediately after getting their case heard?

 

[Ladoga]

Let us know who won.....

Seriously, I've wanted to sign up for a Hillsdale course for a while and just never did.

I took a Hillsdale on line Con Law Course. It was fabulous, Comparing that course to my 2 Con Law courses at IU Indianapolis Law was night and day. That Hillsdale course was built around the original plain meaning of the Constitution as ratified (and amended).
Hillsdale has several such courses worth your time.

 

[DANC]

He has lots of people in his administration. As opposed to Trump, not a single one has come out and said he is a danger to democracy, he’s an idiot, etc. Wonder why that is?

I like how you now believe Republicans

 

[DANC]

I do. That dog won’t hunt.

Do we live in a democracy right now? Sure we do (at least the same structural kind of one we lived in 10 years ago). Yet Trump has been denying the election results for three + years.

How have his denials—and only the denials—“threatened democracy?”

Hypothetical: if some candidate polling at 10% denies results, does it threaten democracy, too? If not, then it is something more than just a denial.

And if denial of the results is what will “threaten democracy,” then if Trump wins, there is no threat because there would be nothing to deny.

So the real “threat to democracy” must be voting against Trump under that rationale ( since we know he won’t admit he ever lost at anything).

I think I said I don't disagree about whatever he said about free and fair elections. I'm too lazy to go back and see the exact wording.

I don't believe the 2020 election was fair, so I agree with him, since it wasn't 'free and fair'.

Hillary and other Democrats continually deny Trump won in a 'free and fair' election. They're a pretty major part of the Democrat Party. Aren't they threats to democracy.

And, it goes without day, we are not a pure democracy. We are a democratic Constitutional Republic.

 

[DANC]

The more people spread the nonsense, the more faith in the system crumbles. Our system requires faith to work. You have to believe your vote matters and everything is legit. The more deligitimized the bigger the danger everything goes south.

Spreading what nonsense? Trump's Russian Collusion? That Hunter's laptop was a Russian disinformation operation and that 51 US intelligence agents supported that? That Joe was only calling into Hunter's business meetings to discuss the weather?

There is no shortage of nonsense being spread - it's all what you believe.

 

[DANC]

Only if he follows through with his claims. I have no idea, which is why I don't comment much on them. There is a non-zero risk of that. IF, and I think it is a big IF, he follows through and the GOP has the House and Senate, there aren't many checks.

Note, his own lawyer went on TV and made the case that Cavenaugh owes his position to Trump and should remember that in the immunity case.

I don't think the risk is great, but since I am sure he will pack sycophants everywhere IF he tries to he will have a better shot at success. He wasn't happy with people telling him no last time.

Our freedom loving conspiracy laden Trump supporters want an authoritarian dictator. They trust that more than this spooky democracy thing.

Authoritarianism Among Trump Voters | Monmouth University Polling Institute

Study finds differences between two types of supporters

www.monmouth.edu

And here is an example of the fear being possibly real.

If Trump Is Reelected, His Aides Are Planning to Purge the Civil Service

Officials are looking to revive a controversial order issued in Trump's waning days and have already identified 50,000 federal positions to target.

www.govexec.com

What are his claims?

 

[DANC]

You missed part of my explanation, congress may well be controlled by sycophants. Basically anyone not pro Trump is gone from the House GOP.

As to the courts, to paraphrase Stalin, how many divisions does the Supreme Court have? We see this in Ohio, the governor and legislature flat out ignore court rulings. Read below, the Ohio Supreme Court refused to find the commission in contempt because it would trigger a constitutional crisis

Dubious distinction for Ohio GOP leaders: Only ones in US to ignore a court order

Ohio's current congressional district maps, which the state Supreme Court has ruled are unconstitutionally gerrymandered for the GOP (Ohio Redistricting Commis

www.google.com

Again, I think the odds are quite low. But a willing Congress and an EB filled with sycophants will raise a question, how many divisions do the courts have? I do not know any provision that would allow the military to step in and stop a rogue president. They may not help the president, but I know of no provision allowing the Supreme Court to activate them to arrest a president.

Plus, I bet there are military men willing to accept promotions that are enamored by Trump.

If, and again I don't know it is true, if Trump really plans his retribution tour, he would also start putting sycophants into the courts.

We really shouldn't elect people who claim they want to ignore all law and precedent. They may well just be braggadocios gasbags as I suspect Trump is. But you nor I can PROVE that is all Trump is. If we do, and elect a totally sympathetic House, the number of guardrails left are very few.

 

[Baller23Boogie]

So did you look at the link? Here is the Wiki:

Kalief Browder - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

The Netflix doc on this kid was hard to watch at times.

The system really screwed him, which ultimately led to him taking his own life.
Horrible.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

The Netflix doc on this kid was hard to watch at times.

The system really screwed him, which ultimately led to him taking his own life.
Horrible.

I will have to look that up, I never saw it

Sometimes we get stuck in a belief that someone arrested was probably guilty of something so as a society we don't show the sympathy. If this had been a kid released without bail that kidnapped someone for 3 years, everyone in America would know his name. But by being arrested, we don't see him as an innocent victim.