Wrong. Good hire and IU will quickly improve. IU is not some great mystery. Just a basketball school that consistently hires bad coaches.
Braden Smith “I didn’t watch Purdue”
- Thread starter KJL
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Quickly improve until when? A bad season? A flame out in March?
I don't believe the IU fan base realizes how hard it is to be a consistent winner every season. They "expect it" as if it's a God-given right.
I do not doubt that IU can quickly improve, but it's hard to argue that IU's fanbase and its expectations haven't been part of the problem with how IU has landed where it is.
The only reason you guys have CMW is because the administration and fan base are pushing so hard for a return to the Knight era without realizing that era has been gone for 20 years. And that was only because many of you thought Brad Stevens, Billy Donavan etc would come and when that failed the administration knew they had to fall back to someone the fanbase would at least give a little bit of time -- so they settled on a Knight star player from 40 years ago who had no college experience. That was a pure fanbase play.
IU needs to be IU, which means recruiting Indiana kids, building relationships with high school coaches and local AAU teams, and getting back to the Crean era of recruiting.
And the fanbase needs to realize they've been complicit in getting IU to where it is. This idea that IU just gets to be the IU of the 80s in perpetuity "because we're IU" is absurd.
The entitlement has led to these results.
The fans of the IU of the 1970s and 1980s shrink in size every year, and for those who are still with us, apathy is becoming entrenched.
I don't know how many more times I can get my group of IU friends to agree to our annual March trip.
This next hire has to be the one. If it isn't, the long-term damage will be catastrophic.
In the same sentence, you said IU needs to get back to building relationships with local high school coaches and get back to the Crean era of recruiting. Crean era of recruiting was the invention of the term Creaning, one of the reasons local high school coaches became alienated.
Hey did commit very shortly after pu offered because he realized an offer from IU Was not coming.
All wrong. You've got your own fantasy built I can see that.
Our fans are 0% of the problem. They don't make the coach hires. All they do is support the team. We lead the B1G in attendance this year despite sucking. IU fans gave us a crowd advantage in NYC and a 50/50 crowd in Auburn's back yard in ATL. We donate a lot. All of this despite being pretty darn bad for a quarter century.
The fanbase is pretty patient. Crean got his three years to totally rebuild (eight B1G wins in total in three years). Woody won one tournament game in two years and he had great support until he collapsed this year to ranked #100 with no sign of improvement.
Our fans had zero say in the Woodson hire or any other hire. The Woody hire was for and driven by Quinn. Everyone knows this.
You don't like IU fans, so you want to blame them because that's fun. You want IU to go away so you make up an apathy narrative that isn't there either. Dumb.
Crean got three years, then delivered three Sweet 16s and two B1G titles in the next four. Part of the fanbase was done with him after the flameout against Syracuse. After the next year, a large minority completely turned on him, and he barely got that last year.
I do like IU fans. I'm going on my annual trip and will be outnumbered 6-2 by IU fans. All of them have committed to going and watching Purdue and cheering for them (for my benefit) until the E8, in which they will be fervently rooting for whomever else we're playing.
But that can't be fun for them, and it's not what they want. Their interest in continuing our tradition has been waning for a few years.
What fun is spending this money to travel around the country watching first-weekend games when your favorite team spends the season in mediocrity or worse? I'm lucky this year that we will be in Indy ... much easier to sell. Next year, with more of the same from IU, I expect the IU contingent to shrink considerably.
Gone are the years when they would throw ice cubes at the TV when Mrs. Keady was shown or make fun of Painter for being "Porkchop."
They will have hope for the next hire ... at least for a season or two. But if IU gets it wrong, it's likely over for them. They've been working to raise their kids as IU fans, but IU hasn't given them much help.
All that's left for them is Purdue's "issues," e.g., the FDU fiasco and "40 years without an F4." If Purdue breaks that streak, which I want, it may be a double-edged sword that also puts the nail in the coffin for my IU buddies.
It’s a shame Crean was let go, we really screwed that up. He went on to great success at Georgia (15-57 in conference) and he’s not coaching anymore.
I just realized I misremembered Crean's timeline. He didn't even get 2 years after the Syracuse flameout. He only got one.
12 months after having IU ranked #1 and in the 2nd weekend, IU's fanbase canned him.
Crean was a tool, but if those results can't help a dude survive an NIT season ... any coach here is screwed.
It's freaking Georgia.
You guys gave up on him just 12 months after a great run.
And it's not like I don't think Crean had his issues. Clappy was a joke, but his results weren't.
But so much of what I heard from the fanbase was that Crean wasn't delivering Final Fours and national titles and thus he needed to be let go.
Good luck to the next coach living up to those expectations too.
IU doesn't remember what it was like before Knight. Soon IU won't remember what it was like with Knight either. Clock's ticking to get it right.
WTF are you babbling about? Your desire to create a narrative has you mis-misrembering actual events. Crean's #1 team and "Cuse suckage was 2013. Crean was fired by Indiana on March 16, 2017. How is that 12 months afterward? 4 years doofus. Crean got more than a fair shot to show who he was, as he should have, as did Archie.
Lol. There's no mythical IU, either. It's all in your fanbase's head. There was Knight. That was IU. Knight's gone, and the fanbase hasn't detached themselves fully from that. Still.
In the last 80 years (1943-2023), when looking at who IU is without Knight, they are a 558-446 (56%) winning ball club. That is the same as a 17-13 per year average.
Only two coaches in that time (outside of Knight) have beaten that average.
One was Kelvin Sampson.
The other?
Coach Mike Woodson. And Woodson is a dead man walking.
So the question is, who is IU, really? IU without Knight. History says they are what they were before Knight, and are what they have been after Knight.
Probably no one remembers the Bruce McCracken days, and the Knight era has another decade—maybe two tops—before that era is forgotten as well.
So yeah, the clock is ticking. IU is much closer to being who they have always been without Knight than recreating the success they had with Knight—one of the greatest coaches to ever coach the game.
Every coach since continues to live in his shadow and probably will until those who remember him are dead and gone.
IU fans think they are Knight and want Knight results, but they haven't realized that finding the best of a generation isn't that easy.
I simply believe IU would have a better time reinventing themselves than trying to recreate the results of a legendary coach. But good luck convincing the fanbase of that.
P.S> what was Crean's last 6 years? 138-69 (eg 66.7% win percentage). Dude was a tool, but he was performing well for who IU historically is.
Crean's recruiting hit the wall around 2014. It wasn't going to get better.
Knight came along twelve years after Branch McCracken's last back to back B1G championships. Knight didn't put IU on the map, Branch did.
IU's last Final Four was 22 years ago. My youngest kid is 29. He remembers that 2002 run like it was yesterday.
You're right. I had the 2013 team confused with the 2016 team. Both were S16 teams that finished and won the B1G.
Crean was fired because IU fans thought the program was something that it wasn't. The best thing for IU will be to forget the Knight years and the expectations that came along with it. Only then will a coach be giving the leash to actually build something of his own.
Ah yes, Bruce McCracken.Lol. There's no mythical IU, either. It's all in your fanbase's head. There was Knight. That was IU. Knight's gone, and the fanbase hasn't detached themselves fully from that. Still.
In the last 80 years (1943-2023), when looking at who IU is without Knight, they are a 558-446 (56%) winning ball club. That is the same as a 17-13 per year average.
Only two coaches in that time (outside of Knight) have beaten that average.
One was Kelvin Sampson.
The other?
Coach Mike Woodson. And Woodson is a dead man walking.
So the question is, who is IU, really? IU without Knight. History says they are what they were before Knight, and are what they have been after Knight.
Probably no one remembers the Bruce McCracken days, and the Knight era has another decade—maybe two tops—before that era is forgotten as well.
So yeah, the clock is ticking. IU is much closer to being who they have always been without Knight than recreating the success they had with Knight—one of the greatest coaches to ever coach the game.
Every coach since continues to live in his shadow and probably will until those who remember him are dead and gone.
IU fans think they are Knight and want Knight results, but they haven't realized that finding the best of a generation isn't that easy.
I simply believe IU would have a better time reinventing themselves than trying to recreate the results of a legendary coach. But good luck convincing the fanbase of that.
P.S> what was Crean's last 6 years? 138-69 (eg 66.7% win percentage). Dude was a tool, but he was performing well for who IU historically is.
You can stop posting your rambling word salads.
Again your narrative you're trying to peddle here. Crean was fired because he was a hyper-active fool, who's coaching and personality led to up and down seasons and inconsistent results. He got 9 seasons at IU, same as at Marquette, while I think he got 4 at UGA where he promptly showed what he could do when he had to rely on his coaching chops. His own record disputes the narrative you're trying to sell. Many on here (myself included) are frustrated with the holes in our team and play. But, CMW will get another year, and another after that most likely if he can coax us back to the tournament. If not, he might get fired next year. So again, he will have had ample opportunity to show what he can do. IU is not short on patience with coaches as you are trying to sell, we're bad at hiring coaches.
And, I guess the good news about your golf trips is you've been free to get out and play as much as the IU guys have been for the most part over the last few years. Well, I mean except last year where they still had a game to watch on Saturday!
Lol. There's no mythical IU, either. It's all in your fanbase's head. There was Knight. That was IU. Knight's gone, and the fanbase hasn't detached themselves fully from that. Still.
In the last 80 years (1943-2023), when looking at who IU is without Knight, they are a 558-446 (56%) winning ball club. That is the same as a 17-13 per year average.
Only two coaches in that time (outside of Knight) have beaten that average.
One was Kelvin Sampson.
The other?
Coach Mike Woodson. And Woodson is a dead man walking.
So the question is, who is IU, really? IU without Knight. History says they are what they were before Knight, and are what they have been after Knight.
Probably no one remembers the Bruce McCracken days, and the Knight era has another decade—maybe two tops—before that era is forgotten as well.
So yeah, the clock is ticking. IU is much closer to being who they have always been without Knight than recreating the success they had with Knight—one of the greatest coaches to ever coach the game.
Every coach since continues to live in his shadow and probably will until those who remember him are dead and gone.
IU fans think they are Knight and want Knight results, but they haven't realized that finding the best of a generation isn't that easy.
I simply believe IU would have a better time reinventing themselves than trying to recreate the results of a legendary coach. But good luck convincing the fanbase of that.
P.S> what was Crean's last 6 years? 138-69 (eg 66.7% win percentage). Dude was a tool, but he was performing well for who IU historically is.
I realized McCracken's second stint was left off of this table (came from IU's wiki page)
I went back and pulled his seasons.
For the first three years, he had a 55% winning percentage, and it took him 7 years before he got his first B1G championship, which he paired with a NCAA title.
However, he finished with a 64.2% winning percentage, which over his time frame would be an average of 19-11 over a regular 30-game season.
So, even one of the IU greats still would have averaged double-digit losses in that span.
That brings IU's W/L totals over the last 80 years without Knight but with McKracken to 836-601 (58%). This still means that Kelvin Sampson and Coach Mike Woodson are the only coaches besides Knight and McKracken to beat that average.
Being a > 60% winning ball club at IU is not easy. When you get some years of it, you should enjoy it and give the next coach that gets you some B1G titles and some 2nd weekend touney appearances more of a leash.
Or keep hiring and firing quickly and see if you can catch that lightning in a bottle again like you did with Knight.
DumbI realized McCracken's second stint was left off of this table (came from IU's wiki page)
I went back and pulled his seasons.
For the first three years, he had a 55% winning percentage, but he finished with a 64.2% winning percentage, which over his time frame would be an average of 19-11 over a normal 30-game season.
So even one of the IU greats still averaged double-digit losses in that span.
That brings IU's W/L totals over the last 80 years without Knight but with McKracken to 836-601 (58%). This still means that Kelvin Sampson and Coach Mike Woodson are the only coaches besides Knight and McKracken to beat that average.
Being a > 60% winning ball club at IU is not easy. When you get some years of it, you should enjoy it and give the next coach that gets you some B1G titles and some 2nd weekend touney appearances more of a leash.
Or keep hiring and firing quickly and see if you can catch that lightning in a bottle again like you did with Knight.
What coach should IU have stuck with longer than they did...ever?
What coach has IU had since RMK that is on Painter's level, or Izzo's level?
Maybe, just maybe, we're a fan base that was used a level of excellence, built over a FIFTY year span, not just RMK's 30 years... And that has been essentially "taken away from us", by a series of absurdly bad hires.
When Tom Crean is legitimately, and its not even close, the best hire out of 5 hires in 20+ years, that frames just how bad our Admin has been at selecting head basketball coaches since RMK. And as up and down as Crean was, he was at IU for 9 years. He was given a LONG runway to get the program going.
This bullshit narrative from the national media, and smug Purdue fans that our fans are delusional...is getting old.
I don't know any of us that expect Indiana to go to a Final Four every year, to win the B10 every year...But we had a pretty established, multi decade track record, of consistently competing for B10 titles, and occassionally having teams capable of FF's and/or Nattys. Our problem with the last 25 years or so, is we're saavy enough to know what a consistent "best in the B10" program looks and feels like. And we haven't had that since the mid 90s.
What is this PUker babbling about? Crean got 9 freaking years and had 3 good ones. Then, he goes on to Georgia and proves even more why he stinks. Wait, now I get it: Crean = Painter.
If he truly "Bleeds in Gold"...and is on an IU fan forum... a very strong guess is he's scared shitless of what the right hire at IU will do to his beloved historically mid major level program.
And the fact that our fanbase is knowledgeable and cares enough to push for that hire...makes him, and them, very uncomfortable.
They're o.k. with national mediocrity...because they've always been mediocre nationally. IU hasn't. So we're not o.k. with it.
Truthfully, anybody who wants to watch good basketball. A few people on here have said they enjoy watching Purdue.
I think most IU fans have admitted they didn't enjoy IU basketball the last few years. That could change but do you think IU has played hard the whole season?
The better question might be, does that last win keep Woodson at IU next year.
Got to give you credit. IU played a good second half.
When I was a Purdue undergrad and then an Iu grad student it was Knight vs Keady and that was fun for sure. Kids these days don’t remember how IU used to be an exceptional basketball program. I have a 17 and 14 year old and neither one has seen IU really be relevant in their lifetime. So it seems to me that while many IU fans on here remember that time, Purdue is now the school in Indiana that is relevant. Sure it can change but just because it used to be one way doesn’t mean it is going back to where it was. I would say the same thing could be said for Purdue. Seems to me the tables have turned and Purdue’s trajectory is going up - especially with the class coming in next year.
Truthfully...most kids don't follow a specific college team at all. My son is a fairly typical kid, I think. He plays for our high school, plays AAU, watches most of the IU games with me... Says "we" when talking about IU...but truthfully, he's on his phone watching reels, tik toks, highlights, etc... more than he ever invests watching any teams play. And most kids are like that nowadays.
I don't know. If he's watching IU games with you, AND we were rolling, that's hard not to get sucked up into. You're influencing what he's watching or he'd not be watching IU at all. All that's missing for him is the winning, imo.
My son watched a lot of IU bball growing up and would have continued following them I believe, but again, we just suck. Not having a good team costs us a ton each year that passes.
You all keep wishing this was true.
To actually quantify this, look at social media, which skews towards younger people. IU has over 1 million X followers, PU has 157K. Not close.
Purdue has a had a great run here and I don’t see it slowing down much. But now their fans want literally everything to be pro-Purdue, and it isn’t.
Wow more followers? Really that’s your take? So why isn’t every top Indiana kid committing to IU on yearly basis? Guess they aren’t among the followers 😂
Obviously possible. But he's a HUGE Steph Curry fan, and a big Warriors fan too. And when we sit to watch them over the last few years...he's on his phone as much as he is engaged in watching the game.
I've noticed more kids than not are like that too. One of his buddies is a big Kansas fan...same thing...
But I think, for sure, IU being so mediocre...basically his whole life, has had an effect on how big of a fan he is.
You’re talking about “kids these days” and what they’re into.
They’re all following IU way, way more than Purdue. And IU has been struggling!
Sorry. Not many people care about Purdue.
If you think the kids are on Twitter.... Lol
The people following IU are mainly the elders. A lot like here.
The best team IU or PU has had in the recent past is the Oladipo/Zeller team: #2 and #4 pick in the same draft. Crean basically did what Painter has been doing. I'll give you Archie. Not going to a FF in 50 years isn't as hard to surpass as IU's admin has made it: even Woody is .500 against PU.
And Jimbo you are always worried about Purdue players getting to the NBA - Edey will be there and now Smith is getting a lot of attention from scouts
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