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another elementary school shooting

Me too. The NRA and lobbyists are the problem. I went to their website and read their positions. Won't budge on the smallest stuff.
The gun lobby is a.problem but not the biggest problem. The Democrats push stupid stuff that are only political talking points. The best example is licensing and registration. That doesn’t do a damn thing. As I said, the first order of business should be the dangerous consumer products. But democrats keep wanting to regulate people because that’s what they do.
 
The gun lobby is a.problem but not the biggest problem. The Democrats push stupid stuff that are only political talking points. The best example is licensing and registration. That doesn’t do a damn thing. As I said, the first order of business should be the dangerous consumer products. But democrats keep wanting to regulate people because that’s what they do.
I think there are opportunities with licensing. And even if these have a small imprint why fight. It's silly. Do everything.
 
The gun lobby is a.problem but not the biggest problem. The Democrats push stupid stuff that are only political talking points. The best example is licensing and registration. That doesn’t do a damn thing. As I said, the first order of business should be the dangerous consumer products. But democrats keep wanting to regulate people because that’s what they do.
Time to get really aggressive. I drop my kid off at school and now think about it. Won't take my kid to a Blues' game at night for fear of stray bullets. Things are out of hand
 
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I can remember when it was pretty easy to buy dynamite but that has changed. I'll bet the framers of the Constitution would be kicking themselves today because of the 2nd Amendment.
The second amendment is not the problem. The problem is those who use it as a moral imperative and those who see it as a problem. Everything Ranger and I have suggested does not have a second amendment issue.

I think immunity violates the 7th Amendment, but the so-called constitutional conservatives never mention that.
 
How would increasing the bureaucratic paperwork of gun ownership stop illegal use?

Registrations and insurance for vehicles are not intended to stop traffic violations.
I once got a speeding ticket from a hardcore MP on a low-security military facility while driving 30 mph in a 25 mph zone on what looked like a city street (no guard post).

As a result, my car insurance premiums increased for the next three years by a total of $3,000. Car insurance expense does cause a change in driving habits.
 
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The second amendment is not the problem. The problem is those who use it as a moral imperative and those who see it as a problem. Everything Ranger and I have suggested does not have a second amendment issue.

I think immunity violates the 7th Amendment, but the so-called constitutional conservatives never mention that.
Yep. Let’s add raising the buying / carrying age to 21.

They really need to go after the FFLs - by removing immunity - too. While a small dataset, the three guys I know that do FFLs are not fit for business. I know there are plenty of good ones, but the guys I know will do anything to get guns into peoples’ hands and are borderline nuts.
 
Time to get really aggressive. I drop my kid off at school and now think about it. Won't take my kid to a Blues' game at night for fear of stray bullets. Things are out of hand
They are out if hand. And that is not a problem if the gun lobby. Our government executive branches at every level, federal, state, and local, encourage lawlessness by blatantly refusing to enforce laws they disagree with. Anarchy, drug running, human trafficking, arson, and general mahem is present at the southern border, and in large cities, because the Democrats enable and encourage it. But have a rancher protest BLM grazing policy in the middle of nowhere and it’s WW III.
 
Some of those things will require the left to act. The right has been clamoring for better efforts to curb mental illness for years and the left won’t budge. The left’s tech titans need to be held accountable for the disasters they’ve created online. Kids’ mental health is terrible and overly aggressive COVID lockdowns, isolation and social media is a large component of fueling the fire.

None of it matters. A complete and total waste of time.... just like this entire 7 page thread.

We decided 9 years ago it doesn't matter.... the killing a bunch of 1st graders was just the price of living in this shit hole.
 
I once got a speeding ticket from a hardcore MP on a low-security military facility while driving 30 mph in a 25 mph zone on what looked like a city street (no guard post).

As a result, my car insurance premiums increased for the next three years by a total of $3,000. Car insurance expense does cause a change in driving habits.
The point is that the regulatory burdens have no affect on those who drive uninsured without a license or a car hacker. It only burdens those who are good citizens anyway.
 
None of it matters. A complete and total waste of time.... just like this entire 7 page thread.

We decided 9 years ago it doesn't matter.... the killing a bunch of 1st graders was just the price of living in this shit hole.
Sad. Probably true
 
I also think we should discuss the body armor. We know the Buffalo shooter was hit by a round from the security guard that did not penetrate the armor. The Uvalde shooter wore armor, we don't know yet if it stopped any rounds but it is being reported he was fired upon while heading to the school. Even if no round hit him, the armor may have given him the courage to advance under fire. Other shooters have worn armor.

 
None of it matters. A complete and total waste of time.... just like this entire 7 page thread.

We decided 9 years ago it doesn't matter.... the killing a bunch of 1st graders was just the price of living in this shit hole.
In a way you are correct. More people will die from gunshots in Chicago in a couple of weeks than died in the school. Nobody gives a shit because they are blacks shooting blacks who have no home life anyway. But kill a kid in school who has loving family and we go ape.

Shithole has many forms.
 
They are out if hand. And that is not a problem if the gun lobby. Our government executive branches at every level, federal, state, and local, encourage lawlessness by blatantly refusing to enforce laws they disagree with. Anarchy, drug running, human trafficking, arson, and general mahem is present at the southern border, and in large cities, because the Democrats enable and encourage it. But have a rancher protest BLM grazing policy in the middle of nowhere and it’s WW III.

I understand all that but it's not an either or. Those are all problems. But if registration and licensing are aggravating enough for just one person to say F it then it's worth it.
 
I will shoot less than 20 shells a year all while hunting. Yet someone like myself is castigated as a dreaded gun owner.
The broad brush you paint with is troublesome
And I thought the 19 families who just lost children had it tough. Why didn’t you speak up sooner? Thoughts and prayers coming your way.
Hey, everyone, can we stop worrying about all the dead children please. This pro-lifer has had mean things said about him. Can we start a Facebook page or something where we all offer up prayers? This man has been hurt.
 
I also think we should discuss the body armor. We know the Buffalo shooter was hit by a round from the security guard that did not penetrate the armor. The Uvalde shooter wore armor, we don't know yet if it stopped any rounds but it is being reported he was fired upon while heading to the school. Even if no round hit him, the armor may have given him the courage to advance under fire. Other shooters have worn armor.


Discuss in what respect Marv?
 
Discuss in what respect Marv?

Should it be legal? Should it be heavily taxed to discourage the purchase? Should it require a mental health check to buy (no 2nd amendment discussion on armor)? Should wearing body armor in public automatically allow police to stop and question? If the person that sold that body armor was liable for being sued, wouldn't that mean they would be VERY selective in who they sold body armor to (a play on CO's cause for guns)?
 
We deserve what we get when we elect dumba$$es like MTG. If you voted for $hitheads like this how do you look yourself in the mirror? How do you look at your kids or grandkids without cowering in shame? GFY
But she’s fiscally conservative!
 
What do you think we should do about guns?
I think the issue should be viewed with an open mind. I am so tired of the crazies ( on both sides of this issue) screaming their views at the top of their lungs. No "Founding Father" would have anticipated this problem. We have to come to grips with it. Actually, it's hard for me to believe Franklin, Jefferson, Washington, etc., wouldn't have said something to the effect, "We are going to have address the gun access issue," and then taken action.
By this time, they would have already come up with a plan to address it. We need statesmen, not politicians. we need practical solutions not rhetoric. I have several guns. Don't try to BS me the "with the right to bear arms. Don't try to sway me "With guns are evil".

Question number one, "How do these nuts get access to the weapons involved in the shootings?". Question two, "What is the most logical way to prevent such Individuals from getting access?"

This should issue be, "I'm all ears, tell me what your thinking."
 
Should it be legal? Should it be heavily taxed to discourage the purchase? Should it require a mental health check to buy (no 2nd amendment discussion on armor)? Should wearing body armor in public automatically allow police to stop and question? If the person that sold that body armor was liable for being sued, wouldn't that mean they would be VERY selective in who they sold body armor to (a play on CO's cause for guns)?
I hear ya but people will just start wearing it under their clothing. Lord knows we’re so far it wouldn’t look untoward.
 
I also think we should discuss the body armor. We know the Buffalo shooter was hit by a round from the security guard that did not penetrate the armor. The Uvalde shooter wore armor, we don't know yet if it stopped any rounds but it is being reported he was fired upon while heading to the school. Even if no round hit him, the armor may have given him the courage to advance under fire. Other shooters have worn armor.

I agree. Tactical gear means combat and it includes everything from T shirts to body armor. Ive wondered for a while what the courts would say about a body armor ban.
 
Texas Republicans have loosened gun laws in recent years despite the increase in mass shootings

 
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Should it be legal? Should it be heavily taxed to discourage the purchase? Should it require a mental health check to buy (no 2nd amendment discussion on armor)? Should wearing body armor in public automatically allow police to stop and question? If the person that sold that body armor was liable for being sued, wouldn't that mean they would be VERY selective in who they sold body armor to (a play on CO's cause for guns)?
I'm not sure what constitutes body armor but I know a lot about that stuff. The problem is that thanks to advancements in material sciences impact protection materials for sports are strong enough to deter bullets and are cheap and readily available. I don't know how you prevent the sale of material used for sports. There are a bunch of companies that sell the material that are gun armor companies but again also for sports and sports companies. You can wear it under a shirt and no one would know. . Look up Unequal Technologies. They sell for lacrosse and other sports. They even sell a backpack insert for kids to defend themselves against active shooters. You can buy the material in sheets. Ice hockey goalies buy it to augment the padding in facemasks. And it happens to repel bullets
 
In a way you are correct. More people will die from gunshots in Chicago in a couple of weeks than died in the school. Nobody gives a shit because they are blacks shooting blacks who have no home life anyway. But kill a kid in school who has loving family and we go ape.

Shithole has many forms.

Yes shithole includes many forms.....including most cities in this country where gun violence is out of control on a daily basis. Couldn't agree more. And not a fkn thing will ever be done about it in our lifetimes. So either accept it or be wise and start looking for a better place to live in this world than this sick, dying empire.
 
I think the issue should be viewed with an open mind. I am so tired of the crazies ( on both sides of this issue) screaming their views at the top of their lungs. No "Founding Father" would have anticipated this problem. We have to come to grips with it. Actually, it's hard for me to believe Franklin, Jefferson, Washington, etc., wouldn't have said something to the effect, "We are going to have address the gun access issue," and then taken action.
By this time, they would have already come up with a plan to address it. We need statesmen, not politicians. we need practical solutions not rhetoric. I have several guns. Don't try to BS me the "with the right to bear arms. Don't try to sway me "With guns are evil".

Question number one, "How do these nuts get access to the weapons involved in the shootings?". Question two, "What is the most logical way to prevent such Individuals from getting access?"

This should issue be, "I'm all ears, tell me what your thinking."
Nuts are a big issue. But not just with guns. Nuts push people off of the subway platform into the path of a train. We seem to produce nuts. It begins in elementary school. Kids who don’t have stable families are very vulnerable. I think schools fail vulnerable boys and the problem is getting worse.

I don’t know how we keep nut jobs separated from guns. I’d start with simply taking ultra-hazardous guns out of commerce. I’m talking about semi-autos with high velocity ammo.
 
I hear ya but people will just start wearing it under their clothing. Lord knows we’re so far it wouldn’t look untoward.
True. Which is why taxing the hell out of it to make it very expensive is the best idea. If people want to buy black market and trust that it is real, that's their problem. I'll guarantee some of it won't be, and if that is worn by scum like this guy, so much the better.
 
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I think the issue should be viewed with an open mind. I am so tired of the crazies ( on both sides of this issue) screaming their views at the top of their lungs. No "Founding Father" would have anticipated this problem. We have to come to grips with it. Actually, it's hard for me to believe Franklin, Jefferson, Washington, etc., wouldn't have said something to the effect, "We are going to have address the gun access issue," and then taken action.
By this time, they would have already come up with a plan to address it. We need statesmen, not politicians. we need practical solutions not rhetoric. I have several guns. Don't try to BS me the "with the right to bear arms. Don't try to sway me "With guns are evil".

Question number one, "How do these nuts get access to the weapons involved in the shootings?". Question two, "What is the most logical way to prevent such Individuals from getting access?"

This should issue be, "I'm all ears, tell me what your thinking."
If we want to prevent those with mental issues from buying and owning guns, we will have to subject all gun buyers and owners to a deep dive vetting and licensure process. It could, and probably should, take months to conduct the background investigation.

Now you tell me, why will this never be implemented?
 
True. Which is why taxing the hell out of it to make it very expensive is the best idea. If people want to buy black market and trust that it is real, that's their problem. I'll guarantee some of it won't be, and if that is worn by scum like this guy, so much the better.
It’s also probably time our LEOs carry a semi auto long gun in every squad car and are highly trained on it.
 
Everything Ranger and I have suggested does not have a second amendment issue.
Correct, but the NRA's stance is that every one of those suggestions (other than perhaps beefing up school security) is an assault on the second amendment. The NRA's stance will be adopted by every bought-and-paid-for politician. It is at least refreshing that you have shown some disagreement (today, anyway) with the monolithic stance of the GOP/NRA.
 
True. Which is why taxing the hell out of it to make it very expensive is the best idea. If people want to buy black market and trust that it is real, that's their problem. I'll guarantee some of it won't be, and if that is worn by scum like this guy, so much the better.
Again I don't think you realize how advanced sports protection materials are. They are dirt cheap and used to protect hearts in baseball and hockey, helmets, etc. This material is cheap and easy to get
 
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If we want to prevent those with mental issues from buying and owning guns, we will have to subject all gun buyers and owners to a deep dive vetting and licensure process. It could, and probably should, take months to conduct the background investigation.

Now you tell me, why will this never be implemented?
The problem is that for every thousand kids who present like Ramos, one might be a mass murderer; probably less than one. How do you separate them out?
 
Again I don't think you realize how advanced sports protection materials are. They are dirt cheap and used to protect hearts in baseball and hockey, helmets, etc. This material is cheap and easy to get

That may be, I am not sure that stopping a baseball is the same as stopping a round. But maybe it is.
 
If we want to prevent those with mental issues from buying and owning guns, we will have to subject all gun buyers and owners to a deep dive vetting and licensure process. It could, and probably should, take months to conduct the background investigation.

Now you tell me, why will this never be implemented?

Exactly.

If every gun had to be registered to an owner and said owner was held liable for whatever that gun did, then that could resolve a lot of issues. Gun sales would be much more controlled since people wouldn't want to risk selling a gun without transferring ownership if they could get in trouble for what the buyer of the gun does with it. That's the only way I can think of to make sure people are not selling guns to crazy people. Someone would have to complete a background check in order to get ownership of a gun transferred to them.
 
Again I don't think you realize how advanced sports protection materials are. They are dirt cheap and used to protect hearts in baseball and hockey, helmets, etc. This material is cheap and easy to get
Does that material really stop a .223 round at 3200 FPS? I have my doubts. But even if it stopped penetration, I would think the impact would be lethal.
 
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