another elementary school shooting

[Crayfish57]

I wasn't much of a hunter but really wanted guns as a kid. I just liked to shoot guns. Every weekend when I'm out in the country I hear people blazing away target practicing. I'm to cheap to want to pay for the shells or I probably would too.

And it wasn't about shooting people! I wasnt a hunter either , I pretty much stick to vermin on my property. I had an old BB gun that looked like a 22. Maybe it was watching westerns ?

 

[mcmurtry66]

Are we back to this again? He may have been wrong, but deinstitutionalization began under LBJ

Since 99 70 percent of school shootings have been by people under 18

 

[mrhighlife]

It’s also probably time our LEOs carry a semi auto long gun in every squad car and are highly trained on it.

"Highly trained" LEOs is another issue and thread all together.

 

[larsIU]

Since 99 70 percent of school shootings have been by people under 18

I would question causation. I suspect most post office shootings are done by postal workers.

But yes, the mental health of teens is being put through the wringer by social media and, really, even before that with easy access to the internet.

 

[mcmurtry66]

I would question causation. I suspect most post office shootings are done by postal workers.

But yes, the mental health of teens is being put through the wringer by social media and, really, even before that with easy access to the internet.

Has to be right?

 

[Victorbmyboy]

Not to go off on a tangent, but it’s one of the reasons teachers absolutely must teach some values, SEL, etc. Those that are not getting it at home , must get it at school or they won’t have it anywhere.

We had a few really good teachers you could talk to about anything. The problem now is those same teachers get fired or called out. It’s a different world we live in. For instance, my son got an oculus from his great aunt. I never buy those kinds of gifts. A friend of his started a whole mess at school and home. He told his teacher and his mom that they couldn’t be friends because he didn’t have an oculus. My sone didn’t say that. This kid was just using the oculus and my son to leverage his mom to buy him one. My son got in all kinds of trouble. These kids today have no restraint or respect. The haves and have nots are still separated. This poor(not momentarily wise) kid thinks we are rich. His mother went off on us like we aren’t supposed to buy our kids extravagant gifts. I quickly corrected her, for one it’s none of her business. Two, it’s a gift from an aunt. The good thing is we all worked it out. I tell you. This pandemic and how we handled it as a society had a big impact on our kids mental health. Socially they recovered but good lord it was tough.

 

[anon_mya1phvcpf5x4]

The founding fathers owned slaves, they were racist.

They likely would be considered racist today. But back then they were the norm rather than the exception.

What is seen as acceptable changes over time.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Not to go off on a tangent, but it’s one of the reasons teachers absolutely must teach some values, SEL, etc. Those that are not getting it at home , must get it at school or they won’t have it anywhere.

With all due respect, my stoker said, and I agree, that there are not enough males in k-12 education. This is particularly true for Middle School. Don’t know how to fix that. I do know that male SRO’s who actually participated in school functions had a positive impact but the George Floyd reactions ruined things.

 

[Harry Hondo]

Since 99 70 percent of school shootings have been by people under 18

There in lies the main problem. Is it mental illness or just the fact that a lot of the young use emotion to make decisions rather than reason and rational thought? In other words, guns and teenagers, like drinking and driving, don't mix.

 

[mcmurtry66]

I would question causation. I suspect most post office shootings are done by postal workers.

But yes, the mental health of teens is being put through the wringer by social media and, really, even before that with easy access to the internet.

I posted that stat on my soccer alum group chat with a bunch ferners buddies and they are killing me. Social media is everywhere. Teens in other countries aren't doing this like America. So what's unique about us....

 

[Victorbmyboy]

To be clear, this topic is wildly complex. My sense is that patients still have choice now, whereas they didn't back in the first half of the 20th Century. There are pros and cons for both. Just as there is between the massive shift away from inpatient towards outpatient or in-home services.

I have first hand experience that their is little choice. My brother was turned away several times. This isn’t a choice problem it’s a lack of accessibility. Insurance has cut out real choice too. It’s not that complicated.

 

[mcmurtry66]

There in lies the main problem. Is it mental illness or just the fact that a lot of the young use emotion to make decisions rather than reason and rational thought? In other words, guns and teenagers, like drinking and driving, don't mix.

No idea. See my reply to Lars re my soccer crew. Why isn't it happening in other countries with teens?

 

[larsIU]

Has to be right?

The Columbine kids are almost 40 (some are). What happened in the mid to late 90's? The explosion of the internet.

Maybe Klebold and Harris learned their ideology and weaponry from the public library but I doubt it. It's just far easier now for a kid (let's face it a male under 18) to self radicalize in response to bullying, ostracization, etc. than it was even 30 years ago.

And here in the US we don't make it particularly difficult to stop them from getting the tools necessary to carry out mass murder.

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

I have first hand experience that their is little choice. My brother was turned away several times. This isn’t a choice problem it’s a lack of accessibility. Insurance has cut out real choice too. It’s not that complicated.

Turned away from what? Inpatient? Was it insurance-related?

 

[Victorbmyboy]

I haven't read much of the details but if there were bystanders in the area outside the school, then they may have been trying to be extra careful where they shot so as to make sure the only possible person to get hit would be the target.

There is speculation that this wasn’t planned. They think the school was an eventual target because he wrecked his car disabling it. He shot his grandmother first. It was the closest target. Lots to unpack still.

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

The Columbine kids are almost 40 (some are). What happened in the mid to late 90's? The explosion of the internet.

Maybe Klebold and Harris learned their ideology and weaponry from the public library but I doubt it. It's just far easier now for a kid (let's face it a male under 18) to self radicalize in response to bullying, ostracization, etc. than it was even 30 years ago.

And here in the US we don't make it particularly difficult to stop them from getting the tools necessary to carry out mass murder.

Just tell me where "Smear the Queer" factors into all of this

 

[CO. Hoosier]

False equivalence

I don’t think so. Selective outrage is as phony as dairy free ice cream. The culture of violence is is insidious. It bleeds into every corner of society. It needs a full frontal attack without the burdens of trendy politics.

 

[Victorbmyboy]

Turned away from what? Inpatient? Was it insurance-related?

Yes and yes. It’s no secret man. It took my sister to finally get him help. A guy walking around in the parking lot saw my distraught brother and told my sister he may be able to help. When everything is funneled through a primary care this is what happens. The facility was full and turned him away. They do the same at the hospitals. It’s a broken system. It just is. Insurance doesn’t want to pay either. Why would they. Insurance will pay for some facilities and not others. There is little help for desperate people.

 

[IUCrazy2]

Since 99 70 percent of school shootings have been by people under 18

Expand that stat, I bet most shootings in general, and mass shootings in particular, are committed by 16 to 25 year olds. Turn on the TV every day and the anecdotal evidence is there.

I said up above that the kids are not alright. Zeke wants to do SEL and that is fine. The problem is that the SEL mixes in time wasters relating to LGBT and racially motivated topics when they should be taking that time to discuss this at a higher level so that it encapsulates a larger number of people. We also need to de-feminize the way we approach school for boys. Maybe that means separating kids by gender in elementary.

I asked the question above and didn't really see an answer. Would letting some fist fights occur without the zero tolerance thing, allow for a pressure valve release? I mean, there should be a punishment involved, but it should not be throwing the kid out of school. Seems like in the 50's, 60's, 70's, and some of the 80's that you had the opportunity to punch a bully in the mouth. Yeah, break up the fights, but some of the shit talking that occurs online would dry up a bit if I knew I could punch you in the nose and not have it turn into a capital offense.

Then we need to figure out the cyber world. It isolates and radicalizes people. If we are going to allow gun manufacturers to be sued, then class action lawsuits should be allowed against Meta, Tik Tok, Instagram, Twitter, et. al. for intentionally creating an addictive product which drives antisocial behavior.

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

What are the right’s solutions to curb mental illness? I was thinking about this last night. It’s been decades since many of the facilities have been closed . I agree it’s a huge issue but can’t even fathom where to begin

I don’t have good solutions. But let’s start with:

• Stop vilifying young men in the name of equal rights - which has been achieved years ago but the nonsense from the Left continues
• arming school counselors with ability to check in on the kids that aren’t fitting in - and make recommendations about their mental health and medical
• Stop promoting (I mean promoting - I don’t mean accepting) alternative lifestyles and further confusing our youth
• Learn from the disastrous COVID decisions made affecting our schools and kids - isolation, lock downs, masking, hybrid models - weren’t necessary and didn’t work
• Stop coddling our children. Look at what the good liberals at the NY Dept of Ed are saying. Such nonsense. https://twitter.com/nysednews/status/1529131236513439744?s=21&t=FG-jGLikV5dQLgSdAk2Yxg

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

Yes and yes. It’s no secret man. It took my sister to finally get him help. A guy walking around in the parking lot saw my distraught brother and told my sister he may be able to help. When everything is funneled through a primary care this is what happens. The facility was full and turned him away. They do the same at the hospitals. It’s a broken system. It just is. Insurance doesn’t want to pay either. Why would they.

Did he try to seek IOP or outpatient help? Inpatient isn't the only answer, though I believe it is the best one, particularly for high acuity patients.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Expand that stat, I bet most shootings in general, and mass shootings in particular, are committed by 16 to 25 year olds. Turn on the TV every day and the anecdotal evidence is there.

I said up above that the kids are not alright. Zeke wants to do SEL and that is fine. The problem is that the SEL mixes in time wasters relating to LGBT and racially motivated topics when they should be taking that time to discuss this at a higher level so that it encapsulates a larger number of people. We also need to de-feminize the way we approach school for boys. Maybe that means separating kids by gender in elementary.

I asked the question above and didn't really see an answer. Would letting some fist fights occur without the zero tolerance thing, allow for a pressure valve release? I mean, there should be a punishment involved, but it should not be throwing the kid out of school. Seems like in the 50's, 60's, 70's, and some of the 80's that you had the opportunity to punch a bully in the mouth. Yeah, break up the fights, but some of the shit talking that occurs online would dry up a bit if I knew I could punch you in the nose and not have it turn into a capital offense.

Then we need to figure out the cyber world. It isolates and radicalizes people. If we are going to allow gun manufacturers to be sued, then class action lawsuits should be allowed against Meta, Tik Tok, Instagram, Twitter, et. al. for intentionally creating an addictive product which drives antisocial behavior.

Calif has a bill in the works. Social media is awful. A kid bullied has no escape. Used to come home and be free but not anymore. A radicalized kid can find a hate group for reinforcement. On and and on

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

I don’t think so. Selective outrage is as phony as dairy free ice cream. The culture of violence is is insidious. It bleeds into every corner of society. It needs a full frontal attack without the burdens of trendy politics.

It's not selective outrage. A bunch of gangbangers shooting up a block is not the same as a deranged lunatic walking into an elementary school and executing young kids. How you even consider them in the same light makes me question if you even have feelings of any sort these days.

 

[Harry Hondo]

No idea. See my reply to Lars re my soccer crew. Why isn't it happening in other countries with teens?

Well, the easy answer would be that most other countries don't allow easy access to guns. We don't let an 18 year old buy beer, but he can go buy an assault rifle.

 

[larsIU]

I posted that stat on my soccer alum group chat with a bunch ferners buddies and they are killing me. Social media is everywhere. Teens in other countries aren't doing this like America. So what's unique about us....

It's weird. I've been in some really poor countries over the last 15 years or so. Now, maybe they don't have the means to acquire guns but they exist around them. They are used as tools. Like Cray notes, somebody has to kll the varmints and vermin.

I saw one gun while in southern Africa. One. It was for the security guard at a wealthy guy's house. Dude would walk the perimeter every night. It wasn't loaded and probably wouldn't fire if it was.

But really poor people (not USA poor) don't have much use for guns. Who are they going to rob? More poor people? Plus murder is usually just a straight capital punishment.

Any not to get too philosophical here, but in the more wealthy countries (EUROPE) they couple really strict gun laws with really expansive social welfare networks, free college, etc. Perhaps...just maybe....that signals to the populace that they have value and should be afforded opportunities available to all.

Otherwise, I have no idea. It is a uniquely American problem.

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

Does that material really stop a .223 round at 3200 FPS? I have my doubts. But even if it stopped penetration, I would think the impact would be lethal.

No definitely not. Civilian body armor is designed for pistol rounds. It won’t even stop a knife.

 

[larsIU]

Just tell me where "Smear the Queer" factors into all of this

Don't forget dodgeball with slightly underinflated Mikasas

 

[Victorbmyboy]

Did he try to seek IOP or outpatient help? Inpatient isn't the only answer, though I believe it is the best one, particularly for high acuity patients.

Well when you hit a wall the timing for outpatient isn’t an exact science. The institutions should be able to get him help of some kind in that vulnerable moment. When the first or last door gets slammed in your face it becomes hopeless in their eyes. You should not have to search for help like that. At that moment most aren’t capable of searching or rational thought.

 

[mcmurtry66]

It's weird. I've been in some really poor countries over the last 15 years or so. Now, maybe they don't have the means to acquire guns but they exist around them. They are used as tools. Like Cray notes, somebody has to kll the varmints and vermin.

I saw one gun while in southern Africa. One. It was for the security guard at a wealthy guy's house. Dude would walk the perimeter every night. It wasn't loaded and probably wouldn't fire if it was.

But really poor people (not USA poor) don't have much use for guns. Who are they going to rob? More poor people? Plus murder is usually just a straight capital punishment.

Any not to get too philosophical here, but in the more wealthy countries (EUROPE) they couple really strict gun laws with really expansive social welfare networks, free college, etc. Perhaps...just maybe....that signals to the populace that they have value and should be afforded opportunities available to all.

Otherwise, I have no idea. It is a uniquely American problem.

Interesting stuff

 

[Ohio Guy]

I feel like this is as good a place as any to place this list. As far as I can tell, this is the list of locations of school shootings in the US since 1998:
Thurston High School.
Columbine High School.
Heritage High School.
Deming Middle School.
Fort Gibson Middle School.
Buell Elementary School.
Lake Worth Middle School.
University of Arkansas.
Junipero Serra High School.
Santana High School.
Bishop Neumann High School.
Pacific Lutheran University.
Granite Hills High School.
Lew Wallace High School.
Martin Luther King, Jr. High School.
Appalachian School of Law.
Washington High School.
Conception Abbey.
Benjamin Tasker Middle School.
University of Arizona.
Lincoln High School.
John McDonogh High School.
Red Lion Area Junior High School.
Case Western Reserve University.
Rocori High School.
Ballou High School.
Randallstown High School.
Bowen High School.
Red Lake Senior High School.
Harlan Community Academy High School.
Campbell County High School.
Milwee Middle School.
Roseburg High School.
Pine Middle School.
Essex Elementary School.
Duquesne University.
Platte Canyon High School.
Weston High School.
West Nickel Mines School.
Joplin Memorial Middle School.
Henry Foss High School.
Compton Centennial High School.
Virginia Tech.
Success Tech Academy.
Miami Carol City Senior High School.
Hamilton High School.
Louisiana Technical College.
Mitchell High School.
E.O. Green Junior High School.
Northern Illinois University.
Lakota Middle School.
Knoxville Central High School.
Willoughby South High School.
Henry Ford High School.
University of Central Arkansas.
Dillard High School.
Dunbar High School.
Hampton University.
Harvard College.
Larose-Cut Off Middle School.
International Studies Academy.
Skyline College.
Discovery Middle School.
University of Alabama.
DeKalb School.
Deer Creek Middle School.
Ohio State University.
Mumford High School.
University of Texas.
Kelly Elementary School.
Marinette High School.
Aurora Central High School.
Millard South High School.
Martinsville West Middle School.
Worthing High School.
Millard South High School.
Highlands Intermediate School.
Cape Fear High School.
Chardon High School.
Episcopal School of Jacksonville.
Oikos University.
Hamilton High School.
Perry Hall School.
Normal Community High School.
University of South Alabama.
Banner Academy South.
University of Southern California.
Sandy Hook Elementary School.
Apostolic Revival Center Christian School.
Taft Union High School.
Osborn High School.
Stevens Institute of Business and Arts.
Hazard Community and Technical College.
Chicago State University.
Lone Star College-North.
Cesar Chavez High School.
Price Middle School.
University of Central Florida.
New River Community College.
Grambling State University.
Massachusetts Institute of Technology.
Ossie Ware Mitchell Middle School.
Ronald E. McNair Discovery Academy.
North Panola High School.
Carver High School.
Agape Christian Academy.
Sparks Middle School.
North Carolina A&T State University.
Stephenson High School.
Brashear High School.
West Orange High School.
Arapahoe High School.
Edison High School.
Liberty Technology Magnet High School.
Hillhouse High School.
Berrendo Middle School.
Purdue University.
South Carolina State University.
Los Angeles Valley College.
Charles F. Brush High School.
University of Southern California.
Georgia Regents University.
Academy of Knowledge Preschool.
Benjamin Banneker High School.
D. H. Conley High School.
East English Village Preparatory Academy.
Paine College.
Georgia Gwinnett College.
John F. Kennedy High School.
Seattle Pacific University.
Reynolds High School.
Indiana State University.
Albemarle High School.
Fern Creek Traditional High School.
Langston Hughes High School.
Marysville Pilchuck High School.
Florida State University.
Miami Carol City High School.
Rogers State University.
Rosemary Anderson High School.
Wisconsin Lutheran High School.
Frederick High School.
Tenaya Middle School.
Bethune-Cookman University.
Pershing Elementary School.
Wayne Community College.
J.B. Martin Middle School.
Southwestern Classical Academy.
Savannah State University.
Harrisburg High School.
Umpqua Community College.
Northern Arizona University.
Texas Southern University.
Tennessee State University.
Winston-Salem State University.
Mojave High School.
Lawrence Central High School.
Franklin High School.
Muskegon Heights High School.
Independence High School.
Madison High School.
Antigo High School.
University of California-Los Angeles.
Jeremiah Burke High School.
Alpine High School.
Townville Elementary School.
Vigor High School.
Linden McKinley STEM Academy.
June Jordan High School for Equity.
Union Middle School.
Mueller Park Junior High School.
West Liberty-Salem High School.
University of Washington.
King City High School.
North Park Elementary School.
North Lake College.
Freeman High School.
Mattoon High School.
Rancho Tehama Elementary School.
Aztec High School.
Wake Forest University.
Italy High School.
NET Charter High School.
Marshall County High School.
Sal Castro Middle School.
Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School
Great Mills High School
Central Michigan University
Huffman High School
Frederick Douglass High School
Forest High School
Highland High School
Dixon High School
Santa Fe High School
Noblesville West Middle School
University of North Carolina Charlotte
STEM School Highlands Ranch
Edgewood High School
Palm Beach Central High School
Providence Career & Technical Academy
Fairley High School (school bus)
Canyon Springs High School
Dennis Intermediate School
Florida International University
Central Elementary School
Cascade Middle School
Davidson High School
Prairie View A & M University
Altascocita High School
Central Academy of Excellence
Cleveland High School
Robert E. Lee High School
Cheyenne South High School
Grambling State University
Blountsville Elementary School
Holmes County, Mississippi (school bus)
Prescott High School
College of the Mainland
Wynbrooke Elementary School
UNC Charlotte
Riverview Florida (school bus)
Second Chance High School
Carman-Ainsworth High School
Williwaw Elementary School
Monroe Clark Middle School
Central Catholic High School
Jeanette High School
Eastern Hills High School
DeAnza High School
Ridgway High School
Reginald F. Lewis High School
Saugus High School
Pleasantville High School
Waukesha South High School
Oshkosh High School
Catholic Academy of New Haven
Bellaire High School
North Crowley High School
McAuliffe Elementary School
South Oak Cliff High School
Texas A&M University-Commerce
Sonora High School
Western Illinois University
Oxford High School
Robb Elementary School

 

[CO. Hoosier]

It's not selective outrage. A bunch of gangbangers shooting up a block is not the same as a deranged lunatic walking into an elementary school and executing young kids. How you even consider them in the same light makes me question if you even have feelings of any sort these days.

Whoa. I’m supposed to feel differently about young teens shooting other young teens than I do about a school shooting?

In Denver 4 people were shot in the last 12 hours. Crimes involving guns are up all over. Yes, there are differences, but our public response must be more uniform and consistent.

Edit: in all cases we are talking about individuals who have no respect for human life. That is an insidious problem. We can’t address it by haranguing the dreaded gun lobby. As I’ve said often, I firmly believe that we can and should do some things about guns. But the larger issue is figuring out how and why we produce so many people who don’t care about life, including their own

Full circle to my first post in this thread. I’ve said all I can

 

[Victorbmyboy]

I feel like this is as good a place as any to place this list. As far as I can tell, this is the list of locations of school shootings in the US since 1998:
Thurston High School.
Columbine High School.
Heritage High School.
Deming Middle School.
Fort Gibson Middle School.
Buell Elementary School.
Lake Worth Middle School.
University of Arkansas.
Junipero Serra High School.
Santana High School.
Bishop Neumann High School.
Pacific Lutheran University.
Granite Hills High School.
Lew Wallace High School.
Martin Luther King, Jr. High School.
Appalachian School of Law.
Washington High School.
Conception Abbey.
Benjamin Tasker Middle School.
University of Arizona.
Lincoln High School.
John McDonogh High School.
Red Lion Area Junior High School.
Case Western Reserve University.
Rocori High School.
Ballou High School.
Randallstown High School.
Bowen High School.
Red Lake Senior High School.
Harlan Community Academy High School.
Campbell County High School.
Milwee Middle School.
Roseburg High School.
Pine Middle School.
Essex Elementary School.
Duquesne University.
Platte Canyon High School.
Weston High School.
West Nickel Mines School.
Joplin Memorial Middle School.
Henry Foss High School.
Compton Centennial High School.
Virginia Tech.
Success Tech Academy.
Miami Carol City Senior High School.
Hamilton High School.
Louisiana Technical College.
Mitchell High School.
E.O. Green Junior High School.
Northern Illinois University.
Lakota Middle School.
Knoxville Central High School.
Willoughby South High School.
Henry Ford High School.
University of Central Arkansas.
Dillard High School.
Dunbar High School.
Hampton University.
Harvard College.
Larose-Cut Off Middle School.
International Studies Academy.
Skyline College.
Discovery Middle School.
University of Alabama.
DeKalb School.
Deer Creek Middle School.
Ohio State University.
Mumford High School.
University of Texas.
Kelly Elementary School.
Marinette High School.
Aurora Central High School.
Millard South High School.
Martinsville West Middle School.
Worthing High School.
Millard South High School.
Highlands Intermediate School.
Cape Fear High School.
Chardon High School.
Episcopal School of Jacksonville.
Oikos University.
Hamilton High School.
Perry Hall School.
Normal Community High School.
University of South Alabama.
Banner Academy South.
University of Southern California.
Sandy Hook Elementary School.
Apostolic Revival Center Christian School.
Taft Union High School.
Osborn High School.
Stevens Institute of Business and Arts.
Hazard Community and Technical College.
Chicago State University.
Lone Star College-North.
Cesar Chavez High School.
Price Middle School.
University of Central Florida.
New River Community College.
Grambling State University.
Massachusetts Institute of Technology.
Ossie Ware Mitchell Middle School.
Ronald E. McNair Discovery Academy.
North Panola High School.
Carver High School.
Agape Christian Academy.
Sparks Middle School.
North Carolina A&T State University.
Stephenson High School.
Brashear High School.
West Orange High School.
Arapahoe High School.
Edison High School.
Liberty Technology Magnet High School.
Hillhouse High School.
Berrendo Middle School.
Purdue University.
South Carolina State University.
Los Angeles Valley College.
Charles F. Brush High School.
University of Southern California.
Georgia Regents University.
Academy of Knowledge Preschool.
Benjamin Banneker High School.
D. H. Conley High School.
East English Village Preparatory Academy.
Paine College.
Georgia Gwinnett College.
John F. Kennedy High School.
Seattle Pacific University.
Reynolds High School.
Indiana State University.
Albemarle High School.
Fern Creek Traditional High School.
Langston Hughes High School.
Marysville Pilchuck High School.
Florida State University.
Miami Carol City High School.
Rogers State University.
Rosemary Anderson High School.
Wisconsin Lutheran High School.
Frederick High School.
Tenaya Middle School.
Bethune-Cookman University.
Pershing Elementary School.
Wayne Community College.
J.B. Martin Middle School.
Southwestern Classical Academy.
Savannah State University.
Harrisburg High School.
Umpqua Community College.
Northern Arizona University.
Texas Southern University.
Tennessee State University.
Winston-Salem State University.
Mojave High School.
Lawrence Central High School.
Franklin High School.
Muskegon Heights High School.
Independence High School.
Madison High School.
Antigo High School.
University of California-Los Angeles.
Jeremiah Burke High School.
Alpine High School.
Townville Elementary School.
Vigor High School.
Linden McKinley STEM Academy.
June Jordan High School for Equity.
Union Middle School.
Mueller Park Junior High School.
West Liberty-Salem High School.
University of Washington.
King City High School.
North Park Elementary School.
North Lake College.
Freeman High School.
Mattoon High School.
Rancho Tehama Elementary School.
Aztec High School.
Wake Forest University.
Italy High School.
NET Charter High School.
Marshall County High School.
Sal Castro Middle School.
Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School
Great Mills High School
Central Michigan University
Huffman High School
Frederick Douglass High School
Forest High School
Highland High School
Dixon High School
Santa Fe High School
Noblesville West Middle School
University of North Carolina Charlotte
STEM School Highlands Ranch
Edgewood High School
Palm Beach Central High School
Providence Career & Technical Academy
Fairley High School (school bus)
Canyon Springs High School
Dennis Intermediate School
Florida International University
Central Elementary School
Cascade Middle School
Davidson High School
Prairie View A & M University
Altascocita High School
Central Academy of Excellence
Cleveland High School
Robert E. Lee High School
Cheyenne South High School
Grambling State University
Blountsville Elementary School
Holmes County, Mississippi (school bus)
Prescott High School
College of the Mainland
Wynbrooke Elementary School
UNC Charlotte
Riverview Florida (school bus)
Second Chance High School
Carman-Ainsworth High School
Williwaw Elementary School
Monroe Clark Middle School
Central Catholic High School
Jeanette High School
Eastern Hills High School
DeAnza High School
Ridgway High School
Reginald F. Lewis High School
Saugus High School
Pleasantville High School
Waukesha South High School
Oshkosh High School
Catholic Academy of New Haven
Bellaire High School
North Crowley High School
McAuliffe Elementary School
South Oak Cliff High School
Texas A&M University-Commerce
Sonora High School
Western Illinois University
Oxford High School
Robb Elementary School

That’s a scary ass list. Should be the safest place on the planet.

 

[Harry Hondo]

No definitely not. Civilian body armor is designed for pistol rounds. It won’t even stop a knife.

And first level security, much like the security guard in Buffalo, is carrying a pistol. Obviously, these recent shooters knew they wouldn't encounter lethal force until the SWAT team or other special police forces arrived and by then it'd be too late.

 

[Univee2]

most I know are zealots and scream like idiots if anyone proposes any type of gun control

Sounds just like the abortion zealots.

 

[BCCHoosier]

Before everybody comes at me, hear me out.

Apparently the police engaged the shooter outside the school but failed to take him down. Now, I'm sure he wrecked the car and fled pretty quickly, but the most recent thing I heard was they got shots off.

To your point about highly trained....would more marksmanship or combat/tactical training put the police in a better position to succeed in the engagement.

Again, the story is pretty loose right now but I do have to wonder how the police missed. How many shots did they get off?

I have zero combat experience and I believe you've noted nobody knows what they will do once bullets fly so I'm not blaming them just wondering if we're failing by not focusing at least some training for regular police on situations like this.

You raise some interesting points. Shows you that even professionals have trouble taking down a person with a gun wearing body armor.

I think about this everytime someone suggests arming teachers. Fwiw, my wife is an elementary teacher and I own several guns for hunting.

I don't think arming teachers is the answer. In fact I think there would be more deadly accidents having teachers with guns than actual lives saved.

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

Before everybody comes at me, hear me out.

Apparently the police engaged the shooter outside the school but failed to take him down. Now, I'm sure he wrecked the car and fled pretty quickly, but the most recent thing I heard was they got shots off.

To your point about highly trained....would more marksmanship or combat/tactical training put the police in a better position to succeed in the engagement.

Again, the story is pretty loose right now but I do have to wonder how the police missed. How many shots did they get off?

I have zero combat experience and I believe you've noted nobody knows what they will do once bullets fly so I'm not blaming them just wondering if we're failing by not focusing at least some training for regular police on situations like this.

I’m all for better arming police and training them to be able to take down schmucks like Ramos. But another side wants to defund them and hire more social workers.

Hitting a moving (and engaged) target is not easy - and especially difficult with pistols which are very inaccurate at range. Part of our actions should be to get semi auto long guns into squad cars and have several trained marksmen per force.

I’ve seen the same reports and I think we’ll find out that local PD wasn’t aggressive enough in getting into that school. If they could engage him outside they should be able to catch up to him quickly.

 

[Crayfish57]

You raise some interesting points. Shows you that even professionals have trouble taking down a person with a gun wearing body armor.

I think about this everytime someone suggests arming teachers. Fwiw, my wife is an elementary teacher and I own several guns for hunting.

I don't think arming teachers is the answer. In fact I think there would be more deadly accidents having teachers with guns than actual lives saved.

Would greatly depend on the teacher and i realize this isnt the norm. I had a 5th grade teacher who I ended up working for thru HS as he did lawn work on the side, Anyway he was a Marine before becoming a teacher . There would have to be some good training and very selective. I'm sure he would have been a good one to have in a situation. Then it gets to where does the teacher keep the gun? Shoulder holster which is not a good look, locked in a very secure place? Perhaps it might be better to look at maintenance personel to get some training in a what if scenario?

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

On a board where people argue about whether the sky is blue or whose fault it is that it's blue or whatever, I think things like this and some other suggestions would be overwhelmingly accepted.

I think the same would be true for the general public.

So why aren't things like this happening????

Because we have terrible elected officials. Because we have a misinformed populace that can only think in their tribes - see Sens Cruz and Murphy. Because we allow social media to divide and conquer us.

 

[Crayfish57]

I’m all for better arming police and training them to be able to take down schmucks like Ramos. But another side wants to defund them and hire more social workers.

Hitting a moving (and engaged) target is not easy - and especially difficult with pistols which are very inaccurate at range. Part of our actions should be to get semi auto long guns into squad cars and have several trained marksmen per force.

I’ve seen the same reports and I think we’ll find out that local PD wasn’t aggressive enough in getting into that’ll school. If they could engage him outside they should be able to catch up to him quickly.

Better marksmen and aim for the head ?

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

Better marksmen and aim for the head ?

No. Center mass per usual. Getting hit with long gun ammo - even if wearing a vest that can stop it - will still knock someone down. It’s like getting kicked really effing hard.