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another elementary school shooting

Sounds good to me. I don't care about any guns. But I know there are responsible people who enjoy them. So how do we protect them while getting the rest off the street. Ranger touched on a number of viable and not very intrusive measures imo

Anybody who owns a semi-auto long gun will say they are “fun to shoot”. Well, cherry bombs are fun too and many states outlaw them. Same for hand grenades.
 
Same theory as Perdue Pharma. Overselling in a market is evidence of illegal use.

A jury should also decide if putting a .223 Semi auto in the steam of commerce is an ultra-hazardous activity for which there is no counterbalancing social utility.

Finally, If a nervous and angry 18 year old comes into a shop wanting a .223 semi auto, high capacity magazines, a bunch of ammo, and body armor and then shoots up someplace, I’d want to take than gunshop to court.
Maybe. 20 million guns are sold per year. So you enact a stat that reads like a dram shop: if the gun shop knowingly sold a gun to a visibly nervous and shakey person by clear and convincing evidence and that person shot up a school the gun shop is liable. And the manufacturer. And the insurer. And the reinsurer. I guess
 
Darrell Brooks used a vehicle. Others use knives.

The larger problem is society. We systematically degrade families. Most of these shooters are loners, outcasts, have no adult male influence, are from dysfunctional homes and angry. Youth suicide is at an all time high. Youth mental health issues are brushed aside. Drugs are all over the place. Too many see government as a surrogate loving family. I think it’s reasonable to assume that Remos was so angry and distraught that he decided to end his life while making others feel like him.

There will most certainly be politicized calls for gun control, hard school defenses, armed school staff, and other bandaids. None of that will be very effective. We have a systematic social problem and we can’t hide that fact with the political racial and identity diversionary side shows that dominates education. .

Every kid has a mom and a dad. That’s inarguable. We need to develop, support, and nurture that relationship.
Of course you can think of one or two. But it’s a fact that the large majority is from guns. How do we degrade families? How do you make every kid have a dad and mom?
 
Of course you can think of one or two. But it’s a fact that the large majority is from guns. How do we degrade families? How do you make every kid have a dad and mom?
Well if you can explain how any kid can not have a dad and I mom, I will be very interested to hear about it. Perhaps you have some new information about conception that the rest of us don't know about? Do tell!
 
People live under this delusion of "freedom", and ''liberty'' --- while the gun industry, the insurance industry and the pharma industry control the lives of most of the population through media and political control.

The gun owners and the populace have been brainwashed to think freedom and right guaranteed by the constitution mean the ability to buy assault rifles like candies from a store.

In the end, if people don't come forward and force the politicians to make guns or ammo control the topic to vote for, then nothing will change.

The politicians don't care --- since most of their kids are safe.
 
We deserve what we get when we elect dumba$$es like MTG. If you voted for $hitheads like this how do you look yourself in the mirror? How do you look at your kids or grandkids without cowering in shame? GFY
Noodle has had it tonight. I have a feeling you feel like giving a Steve Kerr type rant. I know I do.
 
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Maybe. 20 million guns are sold per year. So you enact a stat that reads like a dram shop: if the gun shop knowingly sold a gun to a visibly nervous and shakey person by clear and convincing evidence and that person shot up a school the gun shop is liable. And the manufacturer. And the insurer. And the reinsurer. I guess
Part of the reason we have the immunity statute is that the city of Chicago was preparing to file a case against the manufacturers who were overselling hand guns in suburban shops. Those guns ended up being sold out of vehicles in back alleys inside the city.
 
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Part of the reason we have the immunity statute is that the city of Chicago was preparing to file a case against the manufacturers who were overselling hand guns in suburban shops. Those guns ended up being sold out of vehicles in back alleys inside the city.
[/QUOTE

That's interesting. In pharma you can track/match sales by days and refills. Not sure how with guns.
 
Of course you can think of one or two. But it’s a fact that the large majority is from guns. How do we degrade families? How do you make every kid have a dad and mom?
Late last summer we had a spate of kids shooting kids in aurora Colorado. The community held meetings to figure that out. The common message was homes with significant domestic violence. Domestic violence is almost always a product of drugs and alcohol. That is a place to start.
 
A couple of thoughts:

1. We had access to guns in this country for centuries. We had access to semiautomatic guns for decades. It is not some new technology. These types of shootings are a relatively "new" thing. Columbine was within the past 25 years and that seems to be kind of a marker in time for when this stuff kicked in. So what went wrong around that time?

2. I am young Gen X, for those who are older than me, how were fist fights viewed in your day? I can remember getting in a few scuffles in elementary school in the 80's. By the time middle school rolled around (early 90's) we were starting to hit the zero tolerance type of approach. Fights were an out of school suspension. Period.

3. Quite a bit of the past 25 to 30 years has had quite a bit of focus on the mental health and encouragement of girls. We have really shuffled boys off the stage.

I have my thoughts on a few things I think contribute to this. Degradation of families, moral breakdown of society, the internet, lack of a pressure release valve for boys, poor mental health resources (true mental health issues), the breakdown of our civic unity, a catch and release approach to crime that is not deemed serious enough.....

And when it comes to the guns, it is as simple as this. The heavily armed people in this country do not trust the altruism of the gun grabbers. It's that simple. You want to address the gun issue, you need to start there.
I don't disagree with yours or COH's posts. We absolutely have a massive mental health crisis, especially in the age of social media (which is what, just 25 years old or younger).

Good point on turning out focus away from male teens. Agree 100%.

Those are such convoluted and complicated issues that will take generations to turn around.

In the meantime I have some simple data points.

1. The United States is in its own universe when it comes to gun violence, particularly mass shootings. We lead the world by far in school shootings.

What has everyone but us figured out?

2. When the assault rifles ban of the 90's was allowed to expire, mass shootings immediately tripled and today it's becoming nearly a multi week occurrence.

That's a direct point to basic legislative solutions.

3. We can point to Australia which had a mass shooting epidemic in the mid 90's and put in legislative solutions (the 1996 National Firearms Agreement) which saw their gun deaths drop over 60%.

So yeah, it seems like a pretty decent case for a legislative strategy.

I'd like for our generation to do more than just send thoughts and prayers.
 
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Google can figure out what kind of toothpaste we use by keeping track of our search history. I hafta believe that techies can put together an algorithm that could help identify potential shooters. Almost all of the shooters have come to the attention of law enforcement and mental health agencies before the fatal event. . There ought to be some data to be crunched to help with risk assessment.
Have they with mass shootings? I thought mass shooters were a different breed because a large majority come out of nowhere (compared to violent people in general show a history, like beating the shit out of their girls).


So unless we get some pre-cogs from Minority Report, again you're asking for something that's incredibly difficult and nearly impossible to implement.

First you'd need a big brother govt team to monitor everyone (which yeah, that's going to freak people the f out) then how do you legally intercept someone who you think shows 'potential mass shooter' traits but hasn't committed any crimes?

That seems incredibly complicated and draconian when there are simpler solutions like a licensing and registration program.

In your example, those that have had dealings with violent issues are banned from the licensing and registration process.
 
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Have they with mass shootings? I thought mass shooters were a different breed because a large majority come out of nowhere (compared to violent people in general show a history, like beating the shit out of their girls).


So unless we get some pre-cogs from Minority Report, again you're asking for something that's incredibly difficult and nearly impossible to implement.

First you'd need a big brother govt team to monitor everyone (which yeah, that's going to freak people the f out) then how do you legally intercept someone who you think shows 'potential mass shooter' traits but hasn't committed any crimes?

That seems incredibly complicated and draconian when there are simpler solutions like a licensing and registration program.

In your example, those that have had dealings with violent issues are banned from the licensing and registration process.

I just paid $170 to register my car for another year, for which I am required to put a sticker on my license plate, keep a copy of that registration, and proof that I have insurance for my car in my glovebox, PLUS a driver’s license with all my personal detals with me while I’m drivin

Yet owning a weapon of war…no such thing. Turn 18, buy an AR-15, and start shooting.

It’s disturbing.
 
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I just paid $170 to register my car for another year, for which I am required to put a sticker on my license plate, keep a copy of that registration, and proof that I have insurance for my car in my glovebox, PLUS a driver’s license with all my personal detals.

Yet owning a weapon of war…no such thing. Turn 18, buy an AR-15, and start shooting. It’s disturbing.
Make the license $20k. F it.
 
You’ve hit a coyote at full gallup charging at your flock? That’s amazing. You should be on tv.

I don't know that banning higher capacity magazines would have mattered at all today, I seriously doubt it would have.

At one time our farmers fought wild game with muzzle loaders. But we really tamed the west with the Henry (15 rounds) and the Winchester (14). I would like to think our guns are a little more accurate today.
 
sick world we live in, but for god's sake don't do anything about guns
Under Texas law he couldn't buy a gun. The problem is how to keep people from slaughtering others because they break laws and new ones are likely not to make a difference. Having better ways to see these kids, now in NY and TX they were 18 so did shutdowns create more mental issues for them, get them help before they kill a number of people is the real answer.
 
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Such a sad state of fvcking affairs. We need to figure out how to disable these lunatics before they do such unspeakable acts. Where are the parents? The Lanza kids parents should have been charged with manslaughter.

this kid’s just the same. Start holding parents accountable for their offspring that commits unspeakable acts
This would just create more division in families by having turn their kids into the police. You can bring you child up with love, discipline, and good supervision but teenagers act without their parent's approval many times. Now we know many parents ignore issues and should be held accountable but not all do ignore problems with their children.
 
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If we repeal immunity some of these will resolve through economics. Especially magazine limits. Selling high volume magazines should carry high volume liability.
I know it sounds easy. But there are millions of them laying in peoples basements. Even if you limit the sale it’s still going to be easy to get that stuff. It’s going to be a very very long process. It won’t be like other countries and I’m not sure the US government will have the stomach to ban. Not going to be easy for sure.
 
Under Texas law he couldn't buy a gun. The problem is how to keep people from slaughtering others because they break laws and new ones are likely not to make a difference. Having better ways to see these kids, now in NY and TX they were 18 so did shutdowns create more mental issues for them, get them help before they kill a number of people is the real answer.
Why could he not buy a gun? It sounds like he walked into a gun store and bought both.

 
I don't disagree with yours or COH's posts. We absolutely have a massive mental health crisis, especially in the age of social media (which is what, just 25 years old or younger).

Good point on turning out focus away from male teens. Agree 100%.

Those are such convoluted and complicated issues that will take generations to turn around.

In the meantime I have some simple data points.

1. The United States is in its own universe when it comes to gun violence, particularly mass shootings. We lead the world by far in school shootings.

What has everyone but us figured out?

2. When the assault rifles ban of the 90's was allowed to expire, mass shootings immediately tripled and today it's becoming nearly a multi week occurrence.

That's a direct point to basic legislative solutions.

3. We can point to Australia which had a mass shooting epidemic in the mid 90's and put in legislative solutions (the 1996 National Firearms Agreement) which saw their gun deaths drop over 60%.

So yeah, it seems like a pretty decent case for a legislative strategy.

I'd like for our generation to do more than just send thoughts and prayers.
Australia is an interesting case for the last thing I mentioned. After the COVID restrictions that were put in place world wide and in that country in particular with it's relatively recent gun grab, the trust does not exist.

Point blank, those people have guns for current Democratic administrations. "That's crazy Crazy, this is stupid conspiracy theorizing..." Ok, but that is the reality. You see posts that touch on the reasons why around here quite frequently. With the internet, everyone has access to the things we say when the other people are not around. The recent COVID stuff escalated that divide. They think that the government is a bigger threat to their kids in the long run than these incidents.

The reaction that is going to come down on this post (that they see all the time) is the type of stuff that reinforces that POV for them.
 
This would just create more division in families by having turn their kids into the police. You can bring you child up with love, discipline, and good supervision but teenagers act without their parent's approval many times. Now we know many parents ignore issues and should be held accountable but not all do ignore problems with their children.

good. They should be calling the police about their kids that are so sick, they’re a risk of mass murder for society.

if parents can’t be held responsible, there’s no one left.
 
I can remember when it was pretty easy to buy dynamite but that has changed. I'll bet the framers of the Constitution would be kicking themselves today because of the 2nd Amendment.
 
Good luck with that. Part of the rationale with constitutional carry is that a license fee is a restriction prohibited by 2A. The NRA line is no restrictions of any kind. Ever.
Explain how the Second Amendment logically prevents government from strictly restricting wide open manufacture, sale and ownership of semiautomatic assault rifles with large magazines (which didn't exist when the Second Amendment became law in 1789) but doesn't prohibit government from imposing strict restrictions on manufacture, sale and ownership of cannons (which did exist in 1789).
 
I just paid $170 to register my car for another year, for which I am required to put a sticker on my license plate, keep a copy of that registration, and proof that I have insurance for my car in my glovebox, PLUS a driver’s license with all my personal detals with me while I’m drivin

Yet owning a weapon of war…no such thing. Turn 18, buy an AR-15, and start shooting.

It’s disturbing.
How would increasing the bureaucratic paperwork of gun ownership stop illegal use?

Registrations and insurance for vehicles are not intended to stop traffic violations.
 
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Sounds great. How long you holding your breath until a single asshole on the right even has the spine to even talk about such things?

This country is a hell hole that's circling the drain.
Some of those things will require the left to act. The right has been clamoring for better efforts to curb mental illness for years and the left won’t budge. The left’s tech titans need to be held accountable for the disasters they’ve created online. Kids’ mental health is terrible and overly aggressive COVID lockdowns, isolation and social media is a large component of fueling the fire.
 
Me too. The NRA and lobbyists are the problem. I went to their website and read their positions. Won't budge on the smallest stuff.
The gutless politicians are the problem. Just like the left leaning politicians that used CDC guidance to throw their hands in the air and say “nothing I can do!” and then went on to placate their COVID neurotic fan base.

Don’t blame the NRA. The buck stops with the elected official. Vote them all out.
 
Some of those things will require the left to act. The right has been clamoring for better efforts to curb mental illness for years and the left won’t budge. The left’s tech titans need to be held accountable for the disasters they’ve created online. Kids’ mental health is terrible and overly aggressive COVID lockdowns, isolation and social media is a large component of fueling the fire.
You need to talk to Reagan about the mental hospitals.
 
Explain how the Second Amendment logically prevents government from strictly restricting wide open manufacture, sale and ownership of semiautomatic assault rifles with large magazines (which didn't exist when the Second Amendment became law in 1789) but doesn't prohibit government from imposing strict restrictions on manufacture, sale and ownership of cannons (which did exist in 1789).
I’d also like to know how the 2A can be used to ensure 18 year olds have access to guns. Why not raise to 21?
 
Some of those things will require the left to act. The right has been clamoring for better efforts to curb mental illness for years and the left won’t budge. The left’s tech titans need to be held accountable for the disasters they’ve created online. Kids’ mental health is terrible and overly aggressive COVID lockdowns, isolation and social media is a large component of fueling the fire.
Calif could soon have a statute that allows suits against social media platforms on behalf of kids who are addicted
 
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