Passing a law that funnels millions and billions to a person's wealth is an event as are all the instances of the money getting funneled.
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez - Bringing Moral Courage to American Politics
- Thread starter iuwclurker
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Really? Hank's friend's got some mad skillz.
Hey Hank, my wife wants to know how to teach my friend to google.
Robotic welders are stationary, for now. Same question I asked someone else earlier, when a 3D printer can design and build a 3D printer, where are humans needed? You mention construction, I will try to find the link but in the book Soonish it is mentioned that there is a robotic setup that can build a house in 48 hours. It has problems in America because we have inspections and the creator doesn't want to wait on inspectors coming while his robot sits around playing euchre. So he's using it in China. But we already have robots laying brick, and Japan has developed a robot to put up drywall. It is slower than a human, but more precise. Speed will also come. There is a house in Baltimore where all the components were entirely made by machine (and then assembled on site by humans). But how long until the assembly is done by machine.
Biotech is human, for now. We don't yet trust computers entirely with our health but that also is changing and will change more. Think about Star Trek, Spock's job was largely to say "Computer, what do we need to do to survive this encounter". Why can't we program the computer to do that without being asked? Once you realize that the only reason the computer couldn't be so programmed are the scriptwriters, the answer to where we are heading is obvious.
Since I did mention NASA, there are a lot of people inside NASA who want astronauts eliminated. We can more cheaply and safely send a probe to Mars, gather up whatever we want and bring it back. No matter where you look in to solar system, sending a probe is cheaper/faster/safer.
As I suggested, we've always lost jobs in these technology revolutions, we just didn't notice.
You mention garbage collectors above. At my home, I have to have my trash in an approved bin on the curb. Couldn't a self-driving truck with LIDAR or a camera come around and grab it with the exact same robotic arm the man now uses?
Really? Hank's friend's got some mad skillz.
Well, he did google it. It seem as if maybe it's not actually a sex robot brothel (the legality of which might be questionable) but rather a shop that sells $5000 sex robots, but offers a "try before you buy" option where you get 80 minutes of on site testing time for $150, or whatever. I mean, you get a test drive when buying a car, right?
For tax purposes I'd think on-the-book sex-robot trials would bring in greater revenue than illegal prostitution, though that's of little consolation to current sex trade workers.
CoH, you talk about STEM education, and I talk about training and education for jobs of the future. So what is the difference?
I view job training as being different from a being an educated engineer or physician.
I share your beliefs regarding STEM, etc....but what % of the population is really capable of doing that kind of work? 10%?
All of what you say is mostly true. I don't think human beings will ever de-humanize life. We have the technological ability to take all the nutrients we need with pills and substances with all the color and texture of Elmer's glue. Yet restaurants are a big business. We still grill steaks, load up a burger, and enjoy the taste of beer and wine. We obviously have the ability to send robots anywhere in space. Yet we are focused on humans and space travel. Flying automobiles have been predicted within "10 years" for the last 60 years. We have the ability to build and use those, but we don't. There are natural limits--human limits, on making humans useless. I simply don't have the concerns you apparently have.
That said, if I were in charge of the next technological advance, I'd task Apple or Microsoft to come up with a virtual reality system to simulate recreational drug use. We could eliminate the scourge of addictions and the premature OD deaths with technology. That would be a good thing. It would help all of us.
I think potentially a lot more than 10%. We don't know how much brain power is wasted because of the crappy K-12 education and high drop-out rates in many cities.
I am sure they are working on it. VR is one of the philosophical answers to why we see no signs of a more advanced civilization. Once they hit VR, they stop progressing and spend their lives in VR. So we need to be careful what we ask for as I suspect VR will addict far more than all drugs combined.
I'm not so sure....I went to a well-rated public school and took all the AP math available....and was more than well prepared for college level math when I got to IU.
There were are least two classrooms full of similar students to me at my high school.........and as far as I know maybe half a dozen of my fellow grads actually ended up in STEM careers. And the one engineer that I kept in touch with quit that industry a few years ago (Purdue grad), got his CPA and is working for a public accounting firm.
Point is...it takes not only the aptitude, which enough may have....it takes a unique personality to actually enjoy that type of work.
I agree about personality compatibility. I think personality compatibility is necessary for many occupations. It is for law and for teaching for sure.
a 3D printer can only make the component parts, it can't assemble them, test them, operate them, service them.
automation isn't a new thing.
you're just telling the same lie over and over again and ignoring that jobs and wages continued to go up despite tech advances, till our industries and jobs were exported to low wage nations.
you're really embarrassing yourself at this point, and looking disingenuous, (look that up), on top.
you're obviously here to lobby that off shoring isn't what's costing jobs, and that obviously necessitates being less than totally truthful and ignoring the reality that throughout vastly increased productivity via tech, jobs and wages have still consistently gone up till the moneyed interests bought govt and enabled the export of our industries, jobs, and the associated tax bases..
auto plant near full automation is basically just welds and paint, assembly and most else is still labor intensive.
nice try though.
and self driving trucks will not dominate transport within 15 yrs, and fast food workers aren't going away anytime soon either..
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It's always been entertaining that you can so seamlessly pair idiocy and arrogance, but you're now attacking one of the best of the good faith posters in this place, which transforms entertaining to just downright sad.
I always thought he just showed up to post really weird, form breaking Haiku's.
I think your grocery store labor shortage is 2 things, first, grocery stores are among the lowest paying of "retail" type jobs. That makes it hard to keep staff. Second is that, because of this, I think teen labor in the evenings used to be the driver of that labor and it made a good place to work for someone like my wife who wanted the flexibility to be able to be home when the kids left for school and when they got home.
That is not so much the case now. Teens do not work like they used to even about 20 to 25 years ago and the self checkout aisles generally means you need less people and less people means less flexibility with the schedule. So the employer wants a more full time employee or a greater restricted part time employee (i.e. you have to have greater availability). Add that in with lower pay and it is a far less desirable job.
Let me ask you this, what single physical job can a machine not do and why? Simple question. We have machines landing on other planets and running chemical analysis of the soil. I'm not sure why a robot can't weld a car, assemble a Barbie, or paint a house.
i notice there wasn't a debate of anything i said in there.
falsely making tech the villain rather than off shoring, just isn't that "good faith".
Listen, if you are saying that off shoring is "a" villain in an ever evolving employment dynamic, I am wholly on board with that. I am also on board with your idea that moneyed interests want all sides fighting one another while they laugh all the way to the bank. But to say that off shoring is a singular "the villain" while discounting the deleterious effect that automation and tech has had (and will increasingly have) on the labor market and wages to me seems both short sighted and disingenuous. The differences from the 50's, 60's and even the 70's and 80's and today in the global marketplace are stark, in virtually every stop in the supply chain. We truly live in a global economy, a world of 7 billion consumers and the economies and nations they prop up. NO amount of protectionism is going to slow that evolution, much less stop or reverse it. We either adapt and thrive or we fall behind.
But I will go back and agree with you on the overarching point concerning moneyed interests and their hand in our political system. Frankly, I think it poisons it and they are all quite content with we the (common) people fighting amongst one another over the next in a never ending line of distractions. Even our Wall Street hating establishment democrats are bellying up to the moneyed interest trough in advance of furthering their political careers:
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/07/wal...-gear-up-for-2020-presidential-election-.html
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
I've long since given up having an actual discussion with you. I was just pointing out how far off the reservation you have to be in order to be that big of an ass to Marvin.
Nope, I think we are woefully unprepared mentally for a jobless future. But it is coming.
what you've done is long quit debating me on the merits of what i say, and resorted to nothing but personal attacks.
a real problem with the board that afflicts more than just you.
if you think i was an ass to Marvin, feel free to make your case.
if you disagree on my position as to what we were debating, feel free to make your case on that.
just false indignation doesn't contribute to anything.
if someone keep repeating falsehoods and continually ignores all my previous responses to said falsehoods as if they didn't exist, eventually i call them on it.
that said, seems you're trying to change the subject from what Marv and i were debating in the first place.
changing the subject is way too prevalent a tactic in political debate, so try getting back on the subject Marv and i were debating in the first place if you want to further the discussion.
Which brings us back to the question, what job can humans do that a machine cannot and why?
are you a bot?
when machines start doing everything and all tasks by humans are eliminated, you let me know.
i notice you always leave out any qualifiers such as "at what cost", and just make this a hypothetical.
go back and watch the video i posted that proved false everything you argued with absolute certainty to that point. (at which point you immediately tried to change the subject we were debating).
instead of just trying to divert the debate from present reality to the theoretical or hypothetical with no deference what so ever as to the cost of having robots do some tasks vs humans, and with no time frame limits defining "the future" as to what's technically possible when money is no object, how bout just admitting you were wrong.
that said, when robots can do everything at zero cost, the debate will be moot.
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Zero cost is a total red herring, people come with a cost. People need paid, people need trained, people need healthcare, vacations, sick time. People violate corporate policy, come to work hungover, steal. There are tremendous costs to people.
I wish Noodle were in this thread, he is an engineer. Co is a lawyer, a virtual basket weaving major when it comes to technology. I have no idea what your career is/was. Bit most people I know that work in technology agree with me.
I'm with you. Automation and technology is the wave of the present, and the future is bleak. And it's not limited to the blue collar sectors. I would venture to guess that the white collar sector will take the brunt of it.
I spent a few decades in consumer finance and left in the early 2000's. When I first started our underwriting departments consisted of dozens of people in a bullpen of cubicles, same with our back end packet processing and loan servicing departments/portfolio management. Internal scoring models came about by the mid 80's, which took alot of the analytical bits out of the equation, meaning less people to process the application flow. The tech grew by leaps and bounds where in the past decade hard copy could be scanned and data auto-filled, no more hard copy application and credit report analysis, the internal scoring models became part of the program to the point that underwriters/loan officers only saw applicants who met basic qualifications and literally hundreds to thousands of applications could be processed with very little human interaction. These days, you can apply for and be approved for a myriad of credit/loan products within moments online, and the only time you have human interaction is when you close the loan. Same on the back end and portfolio management/call center. Autodialers, robocalling programs etc. It's an entirely different ballgame, and what used to take hundreds of people can now be accomplished by a few.
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anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa
Guest
She might not be unintelligent but as far as I’ve seen, she is definitely stupid. Stupid is not realizing your weaknesses and learning from them. Going on national news and not knowing a thing about Israel / Palestine conflict and taking Palestine’s position without being able to defend it is stupid.
She’s got a lot to learn. And the more the Dems trot people with her positions to the forefront - the further I have to go back to the #NewGOP.
Get a grip, Ranger. She's just a Freshman rep. It's not like the American voting public is going to vote an uniformed clown to be POTUS or anything.
Wait...
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anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa
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I don’t follow. You’re what-abouting my critique of AOC as an uninformed and overexposed basket example of where we shouldn’t be putting our eggs? Why?
I get she’s a freshman rep. And again I don’t think she’s unintelligent...I think that (today) she’s stupid. She should not be going on national news shows. She’s not ready. She embarrasses herself. Part of being smart is being self-aware.
My whole point is that we deserve better.
From what I see from my millennial family members over social media, most of them think she's just fantastic. They'd love a whole chamber full of AOC's.
She has a populist message. As we saw with Trump, populists love the unconventional style.
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anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa
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She is the Left’s version of Trump...although I admit I think she is more intelligent.
It behooves Americans to get back to voting with their brains and voting for experts rather than voting for radical usurpers that are completely unqualified. Or maybe I’m just too conventional and boring.
I was agreeing with you in an entirely sarcastic, yet unevident way. My apologies.
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anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa
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Your Honorable Judge, I think the jury's still out. I suggest you return to your chambers and have a pipeful or whatever it is judges do there.
I find her a breath of fresh air. She's an open book, she's honest, she's communicative, and she's got good intentions. She's a politician for all the right reasons. My main issue with her is her stances. If she's too far left, bah humbug. If she's pragmatic, as she claims, fine, she represents a very liberal district.
I have no problem with her grabbing the limelight. Just puts more pressure on the Republicans to end the current trumphuquery.
There is no false equivalence here. There is no double standard. Ocasio Cortez is charismatic and hard working. But she's woefully ignorant about virtually everything and is the product of a social milieu where having the right feelings about something entitles you to simply make up bullsh** numbers about the subject (like sexual assault on campus or the current favorite that illegals are more law abiding than citizens) and having the right genitalia and ancestry allows you to completely avoid being challenged on anything. What is working against her is that she knocked off a very senior member of the Democrat House hierarchy and she's impatient to make her mark on the House while on the fast track to the presidency. That isn't sitting well with the Democrat establishment, which includes the media. That dissatisfaction and Ocasio Cortez's background and her newfound addiction to television cameras have combined to make her easy pickings for fact checkers.
It strikes me that the big problem in that is how you are viewing job training.
