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A chicken and egg problem

CO. Hoosier

Hall of Famer
Aug 29, 2001
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Does being crazy cause people to be extreme left wingers, or does being an extreme left winger cause people to be crazy?

Here is an interesting article about extreme social justice advocates and mental health.

Read the whole thing.


While this is not a totally binary And there is overlap, my observation of what is written by politicians, pundits, and even people in this board, there are more cognitive distortions on the left than on the right. Evidence of that is the left’s catastrophization of so many issues. The link confirms this.

That’s not to say the extreme right doesn’t have its issues, it does. But extreme leftism has found considerable traction in academia which is a big influencer in government K-12 education and public opinion.
 
Does being crazy cause people to be extreme left wingers, or does being an extreme left winger cause people to be crazy?

Here is an interesting article about extreme social justice advocates and mental health.

Read the whole thing.


While this is not a totally binary And there is overlap, my observation of what is written by politicians, pundits, and even people in this board, there are more cognitive distortions on the left than on the right. Evidence of that is the left’s catastrophization of so many issues. The link confirms this.

That’s not to say the extreme right doesn’t have its issues, it does. But extreme leftism has found considerable traction in academia which is a big influencer in government K-12 education and public opinion.
Looks like people are skipping class coh. No takers. Students are ready for summer.
 
This needs to be read by people:


“Bad Therapy” is simply a masterpiece — easily the most important book of the year. Unfortunately, it most desperately needs to be read by the very people who are likely most hostile to Shrier’s work. The book focuses on the harms of the therapeutic approach to raising our children and how the generation treated with the most psychological therapy and psychiatric drugs has become the most miserable, anxious, and disempowered generation on record. (“Disempowered,” by the way, was the original title of the book I wrote with Jonathan Haidt, which became “The Coddling of The American Mind.”)

Shrier comes to many of the same conclusions that Haidt and I came to in “Coddling,” which I’d sum up like this: As a culture, we seem to be teaching young people the mental habits of anxious and depressed people — encouraging them, often through example, to engage in negative mental exaggerations called cognitive distortions. It’s a kind of reverse-cognitive behavioral therapy. I’ve talked about this problem for the last decade, beginning with Haidt’s and my original 2015 article for The Atlantic, “The Coddling of the American Mind,” and most recently with my piece, “What’s behind the campus mental health crisis?” for UnHerd.

Shrier’s book also focuses on how parenting in the K-12 environment is informed by an ideology that completely undermines students’ sense of an internalized locus of control. Indeed, if you really want to make someone despondent, just persuade them that all important decisions are out of their hands and that they are essentially powerless in their own lives.
 
CO. Hoosier said:
Does being crazy cause people to be extreme left wingers, or does being an extreme left winger cause people to be crazy?


Houston, we have a triggered one!

maxresdefault.jpg
 
Does being crazy cause people to be extreme left wingers, or does being an extreme left winger cause people to be crazy?

Here is an interesting article about extreme social justice advocates and mental health.

Read the whole thing.


While this is not a totally binary And there is overlap, my observation of what is written by politicians, pundits, and even people in this board, there are more cognitive distortions on the left than on the right. Evidence of that is the left’s catastrophization of so many issues. The link confirms this.

That’s not to say the extreme right doesn’t have its issues, it does. But extreme leftism has found considerable traction in academia which is a big influencer in government K-12 education and public opinion.
Serious subject that you've diminished with the "being crazy" pejorative in your opening.

And you completely lost me at "my observation..."
 
And more (yes, this is a long excerpt; it's worth it):

Rhetorical obstacle courses, minefields, and fortresses … oh my!


The easiest way to dismiss someone in modern discussions without actually engaging (something Rikki and I call “winning arguments without winning arguments”) is to simply dismiss your opponent as a bad person. This is because of what Rikki and I describe in “Canceling” as the “Fourth Great Untruth” (continuing from the first three in “Coddling”) or the “Untruth of Ad Hominem”: bad people only have bad opinions.

Shrier’s new book will be dismissed right off the bat because in her previous book, “Irreversible Damage: The Transgender Craze Seducing Our Daughters,” she committed a secular blasphemy. She questioned and criticized the move to put youth who might be questioning their gender identity on puberty blockers — or worse, start medically transitioning them — in what, thanks to a huge PR victory on the part of trans rights activists, is now referred to as “gender affirming care.”

Having authored such a book makes Shrier persona non grata in many media and academic circles. Indeed, it even led American Civil Liberties Union staffer Chase Strangio to assert in a now-deleted tweet, “Stopping the circulation of this book and these ideas is 100% a hill I will die on.” And since bad people only have bad opinions, nothing new that Shrier has to say is considered worth hearing, even if it’s on a different topic.

. . . once you’re labeled a heretic it’s hard to get your detractors to take your work seriously even if you turn out to be right. That’s why Shrier is going to have to deal with the Great Untruth of Ad Hominem, along with what Rikki and I call the “Obstacle Course,” the “Minefield,” and the “Perfect Rhetorical Fortress” in “Canceling.”

The Obstacle Course

The Obstacle Course consists of a number of rhetorical dodges and logical fallacies you might be familiar with:

  • Whataboutism: Defending against criticism of your side by bringing up the other side’s alleged wrongdoing.
  • Straw-manning: Misrepresenting the opposition’s perspective by constructing a weak, inaccurate version of their argument that can be easily refuted. (I have seen Shrier’s arguments straw-manned constantly, and doubtless will again.)
  • Minimization: Claiming that a problem doesn’t exist, is too small-scale to worry about, and (eventually) that even if it is happening it’s a good thing. (Thankfully we see less of this than we used to when it comes to youth mental health, but it had to get incredibly bad first.)
  • Motte and Bailey arguments: Conflating two arguments — a reasonable one (the motte) and an unreasonable one (the bailey).
  • Underdogging: Claiming your viewpoint is more valid than your opponent’s because you speak for the disadvantaged. (Obviously, given that trans people are a minority group, this tactic is used against Shrier all the time.)

The Minefield

If you clear the Obstacle Course, you still have work to do. The Minefield is about attacking the person making the argument rather than the argument itself, otherwise known as the ad hominem fallacy. This is why you’ll see that the Great Untruth of Ad Hominem underpins these tactics:

  • Accusations of bad faith: Asserting that your opponent is being disingenuous or has a sinister, selfish, and/or ulterior motive. (This is de rigueur if you say anything the slightest bit controversial these days).
  • Hypocrisy projection: Asserting that your opponent is hypocritical about a given argument, often without actually checking the consistency of their record.
  • Claiming offense: Responding to an idea you don’t like with “that’s offensive,” rather than engaging with its substance. (This is so normal now we hardly even notice it.)
  • Offense archaeology: Digging through someone’s past comments to find speech that can be held against them.
  • Making stuff up: Fabricating information to bolster a weak argument — and asserting it with confidence! When all else fails, why not just lie?

The Perfect Rhetorical Fortress

Rikki and I describe this in detail in “Canceling,” but in short, the Perfect Rhetorical Fortress consists of a series of questions that serve as barricades to having an argument on its merits or substance. You’ll be amazed by how effectively each identity-related barricade of the Perfect Rhetorical Fortress allows anyone inside of it to cover their ears when they don’t want to meaningfully engage with an argument they don’t like.

The first barrier is a tactic I call fasco-casting, which consists of labeling people “conservative,” a “right winger,” “far right,” “fascist,” or the hilariously absurd “neo-confederate,” whether they actually are or not. As Shrier herself has said, “conservative” in this space is simply another word for a bad person. And since bad people have only bad opinions, anyone who can be labeled conservative — or even “conservative adjacent” — can be dismissed without further consideration. Despite being more of an old-school liberal, Shrier is constantly called conservative or conservative-adjacent by her critics. She wouldn’t make it past step one.

Next up, you’re taken through what we call the “Demographic Funnel,” which uses identity characteristics to negate people as legitimate interlocutors without addressing their arguments: What’s the speaker’s race? What’s the speaker’s sex? What’s the speaker’s sexuality? Is the speaker trans or cis?

Being on the wrong side of these questions immediately justifies your being shut down — and it ends up allowing about 99% of the population to be dismissed without a single counterargument. If Shrier could somehow convince her opponent that she is not in fact a conservative, she’s still a cis white woman and therefore easily dismissed anyway.

And the thing is, even if you do happen to fall into the very thin sliver of people who check all the right identity boxes, it doesn’t matter. All of that is kabuki anyway — the rhetorical equivalent to taking a knee and running out the clock. The truth is that you can be smeared and dismissed as a traitor for having the wrong opinions. Tactics in this “Just Kidding!” column of the Perfect Rhetorical Fortress include questions like:

  • Can the speaker be accused of being “phobic”? If you can be pegged as exhibiting any kind of “ism,” or having any kind of “phobia,” then your point of view doesn’t matter.
  • Are they guilty by association? If you can connect the speaker to someone considered morally “beyond the pale,” then you can accuse them of being guilty by association. It’s essentially the Great Untruth of Ad Hominem by proxy.
  • Did the speaker lose their cool? We dub this the “don’t get angry” barricade, in which someone hastens their own demise by voicing frustration.
  • Did the speaker violate a “thought terminating cliché”? If you can be accused of things like “dog-whistling,” “punching down,” “being on the wrong side of history,” or “parroting right-wing talking points,” no further engagement is required.
  • Can you emotionally blackmail someone? When it seems like you’re starting to lose the argument, you can always fall back on emotional outbursts and claims of harm to prevent more discussion.
And if all else fails (which it won’t), you can abandon all pretense of staying on point and making a cogent argument by darkly hinting that something else is what’s really going on. All you have to do is ominously allude to the notion that something other than the issue at hand is really what the problem is. Say, “Well, really this was all about ‘a context’ in which other bad things were happening, so the community was rightfully upset — even if I was wrong,” and you’re home-free.

If it isn’t clear by now why Rikki and I call it the Perfect Rhetorical Fortress, it’s because it’s designed to be invincible — and it is. Shrier doesn’t stand a chance against it. No one does.

The Perfect Rhetorical Fortress can’t be defeated — only rejected

The potential population of people who make it through the Perfect Rhetorical Fortress and are “allowed” to speak is vanishingly small and likely in perfect lock step with today’s orthodoxy. In other words, the only people who get to speak are those who wouldn’t disagree anyway.

It’s impossible for any speaker to defeat the Obstacle Course, the Minefield, and the rhetorical fortresses, which is why I am trying to urge people to reject them instead. There is nothing about being a conservative or a liberal, and there is nothing about your race, sex, sexuality, or the friends you keep that means you are automatically wrong or right about a given issue. Indeed, there’s nothing about even being a bad person that means you’re wrong or right about any particular issue, and there’s nothing about being “good” that means you are always right.

Even though in my opinion Abigail Shrier is a brave and principled human being, it’s beside the point. Anytime critics bring up the claim that she’s a bad person, a transphobe, or the fact that she’s a cis white woman, the reasonable response must be, “Noted. Can we please get back to the argument now?” The only way to beat these rhetorical barriers and deflections is to recognize that you don’t need to fight your way through them at all.

Then, maybe, we can get to things that are actually worth our time, like Shrier’s fantastic new book. I hope everyone will read it. I hope its publication signals that we are starting to see the end of the weird ideological eruption Matt Yglesias dubbed the “Great Awokening.”

And I hope we are now instead entering what I’d like to call the “Great Debunkening.”
 
This needs to be read by people:


“Bad Therapy” is simply a masterpiece — easily the most important book of the year. Unfortunately, it most desperately needs to be read by the very people who are likely most hostile to Shrier’s work. The book focuses on the harms of the therapeutic approach to raising our children and how the generation treated with the most psychological therapy and psychiatric drugs has become the most miserable, anxious, and disempowered generation on record. (“Disempowered,” by the way, was the original title of the book I wrote with Jonathan Haidt, which became “The Coddling of The American Mind.”)

Shrier comes to many of the same conclusions that Haidt and I came to in “Coddling,” which I’d sum up like this: As a culture, we seem to be teaching young people the mental habits of anxious and depressed people — encouraging them, often through example, to engage in negative mental exaggerations called cognitive distortions. It’s a kind of reverse-cognitive behavioral therapy. I’ve talked about this problem for the last decade, beginning with Haidt’s and my original 2015 article for The Atlantic, “The Coddling of the American Mind,” and most recently with my piece, “What’s behind the campus mental health crisis?” for UnHerd.

Shrier’s book also focuses on how parenting in the K-12 environment is informed by an ideology that completely undermines students’ sense of an internalized locus of control. Indeed, if you really want to make someone despondent, just persuade them that all important decisions are out of their hands and that they are essentially powerless in their own lives.
Curious whether you found the same political associations as highlighted in the op? My untrained eye sees negative mental exaggerations commonly arising among MAGA proponents.
 
And more (yes, this is a long excerpt; it's worth it):

Rhetorical obstacle courses, minefields, and fortresses … oh my!


The easiest way to dismiss someone in modern discussions without actually engaging (something Rikki and I call “winning arguments without winning arguments”) is to simply dismiss your opponent as a bad person. This is because of what Rikki and I describe in “Canceling” as the “Fourth Great Untruth” (continuing from the first three in “Coddling”) or the “Untruth of Ad Hominem”: bad people only have bad opinions.

Shrier’s new book will be dismissed right off the bat because in her previous book, “Irreversible Damage: The Transgender Craze Seducing Our Daughters,” she committed a secular blasphemy. She questioned and criticized the move to put youth who might be questioning their gender identity on puberty blockers — or worse, start medically transitioning them — in what, thanks to a huge PR victory on the part of trans rights activists, is now referred to as “gender affirming care.”

Having authored such a book makes Shrier persona non grata in many media and academic circles. Indeed, it even led American Civil Liberties Union staffer Chase Strangio to assert in a now-deleted tweet, “Stopping the circulation of this book and these ideas is 100% a hill I will die on.” And since bad people only have bad opinions, nothing new that Shrier has to say is considered worth hearing, even if it’s on a different topic.

. . . once you’re labeled a heretic it’s hard to get your detractors to take your work seriously even if you turn out to be right. That’s why Shrier is going to have to deal with the Great Untruth of Ad Hominem, along with what Rikki and I call the “Obstacle Course,” the “Minefield,” and the “Perfect Rhetorical Fortress” in “Canceling.”

The Obstacle Course

The Obstacle Course consists of a number of rhetorical dodges and logical fallacies you might be familiar with:

  • Whataboutism: Defending against criticism of your side by bringing up the other side’s alleged wrongdoing.
  • Straw-manning: Misrepresenting the opposition’s perspective by constructing a weak, inaccurate version of their argument that can be easily refuted. (I have seen Shrier’s arguments straw-manned constantly, and doubtless will again.)
  • Minimization: Claiming that a problem doesn’t exist, is too small-scale to worry about, and (eventually) that even if it is happening it’s a good thing. (Thankfully we see less of this than we used to when it comes to youth mental health, but it had to get incredibly bad first.)
  • Motte and Bailey arguments: Conflating two arguments — a reasonable one (the motte) and an unreasonable one (the bailey).
  • Underdogging: Claiming your viewpoint is more valid than your opponent’s because you speak for the disadvantaged. (Obviously, given that trans people are a minority group, this tactic is used against Shrier all the time.)

The Minefield

If you clear the Obstacle Course, you still have work to do. The Minefield is about attacking the person making the argument rather than the argument itself, otherwise known as the ad hominem fallacy. This is why you’ll see that the Great Untruth of Ad Hominem underpins these tactics:

  • Accusations of bad faith: Asserting that your opponent is being disingenuous or has a sinister, selfish, and/or ulterior motive. (This is de rigueur if you say anything the slightest bit controversial these days).
  • Hypocrisy projection: Asserting that your opponent is hypocritical about a given argument, often without actually checking the consistency of their record.
  • Claiming offense: Responding to an idea you don’t like with “that’s offensive,” rather than engaging with its substance. (This is so normal now we hardly even notice it.)
  • Offense archaeology: Digging through someone’s past comments to find speech that can be held against them.
  • Making stuff up: Fabricating information to bolster a weak argument — and asserting it with confidence! When all else fails, why not just lie?

The Perfect Rhetorical Fortress

Rikki and I describe this in detail in “Canceling,” but in short, the Perfect Rhetorical Fortress consists of a series of questions that serve as barricades to having an argument on its merits or substance. You’ll be amazed by how effectively each identity-related barricade of the Perfect Rhetorical Fortress allows anyone inside of it to cover their ears when they don’t want to meaningfully engage with an argument they don’t like.

The first barrier is a tactic I call fasco-casting, which consists of labeling people “conservative,” a “right winger,” “far right,” “fascist,” or the hilariously absurd “neo-confederate,” whether they actually are or not. As Shrier herself has said, “conservative” in this space is simply another word for a bad person. And since bad people have only bad opinions, anyone who can be labeled conservative — or even “conservative adjacent” — can be dismissed without further consideration. Despite being more of an old-school liberal, Shrier is constantly called conservative or conservative-adjacent by her critics. She wouldn’t make it past step one.

Next up, you’re taken through what we call the “Demographic Funnel,” which uses identity characteristics to negate people as legitimate interlocutors without addressing their arguments: What’s the speaker’s race? What’s the speaker’s sex? What’s the speaker’s sexuality? Is the speaker trans or cis?

Being on the wrong side of these questions immediately justifies your being shut down — and it ends up allowing about 99% of the population to be dismissed without a single counterargument. If Shrier could somehow convince her opponent that she is not in fact a conservative, she’s still a cis white woman and therefore easily dismissed anyway.

And the thing is, even if you do happen to fall into the very thin sliver of people who check all the right identity boxes, it doesn’t matter. All of that is kabuki anyway — the rhetorical equivalent to taking a knee and running out the clock. The truth is that you can be smeared and dismissed as a traitor for having the wrong opinions. Tactics in this “Just Kidding!” column of the Perfect Rhetorical Fortress include questions like:

  • Can the speaker be accused of being “phobic”? If you can be pegged as exhibiting any kind of “ism,” or having any kind of “phobia,” then your point of view doesn’t matter.
  • Are they guilty by association? If you can connect the speaker to someone considered morally “beyond the pale,” then you can accuse them of being guilty by association. It’s essentially the Great Untruth of Ad Hominem by proxy.
  • Did the speaker lose their cool? We dub this the “don’t get angry” barricade, in which someone hastens their own demise by voicing frustration.
  • Did the speaker violate a “thought terminating cliché”? If you can be accused of things like “dog-whistling,” “punching down,” “being on the wrong side of history,” or “parroting right-wing talking points,” no further engagement is required.
  • Can you emotionally blackmail someone? When it seems like you’re starting to lose the argument, you can always fall back on emotional outbursts and claims of harm to prevent more discussion.
And if all else fails (which it won’t), you can abandon all pretense of staying on point and making a cogent argument by darkly hinting that something else is what’s really going on. All you have to do is ominously allude to the notion that something other than the issue at hand is really what the problem is. Say, “Well, really this was all about ‘a context’ in which other bad things were happening, so the community was rightfully upset — even if I was wrong,” and you’re home-free.

If it isn’t clear by now why Rikki and I call it the Perfect Rhetorical Fortress, it’s because it’s designed to be invincible — and it is. Shrier doesn’t stand a chance against it. No one does.

The Perfect Rhetorical Fortress can’t be defeated — only rejected

The potential population of people who make it through the Perfect Rhetorical Fortress and are “allowed” to speak is vanishingly small and likely in perfect lock step with today’s orthodoxy. In other words, the only people who get to speak are those who wouldn’t disagree anyway.

It’s impossible for any speaker to defeat the Obstacle Course, the Minefield, and the rhetorical fortresses, which is why I am trying to urge people to reject them instead. There is nothing about being a conservative or a liberal, and there is nothing about your race, sex, sexuality, or the friends you keep that means you are automatically wrong or right about a given issue. Indeed, there’s nothing about even being a bad person that means you’re wrong or right about any particular issue, and there’s nothing about being “good” that means you are always right.

Even though in my opinion Abigail Shrier is a brave and principled human being, it’s beside the point. Anytime critics bring up the claim that she’s a bad person, a transphobe, or the fact that she’s a cis white woman, the reasonable response must be, “Noted. Can we please get back to the argument now?” The only way to beat these rhetorical barriers and deflections is to recognize that you don’t need to fight your way through them at all.

Then, maybe, we can get to things that are actually worth our time, like Shrier’s fantastic new book. I hope everyone will read it. I hope its publication signals that we are starting to see the end of the weird ideological eruption Matt Yglesias dubbed the “Great Awokening.”

And I hope we are now instead entering what I’d like to call the “Great Debunkening.”
That’s excellent. But I’m just an old white guy.

I’ve linked this a few times..

 
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Curious whether you found the same political associations as highlighted in the op? My untrained eye sees negative mental exaggerations commonly arising among MAGA proponents.
I think negative mental exaggerations, black and white thinking, and catastrophizing happen on both ends of the political spectrum to a greater degree than among those who are either apolitical or between those two poles. I have no idea if one pole has it worse than the other in this measure.

I have no data to back that up--just an educated guess.
 
I think negative mental exaggerations, black and white thinking, and catastrophizing happen on both ends of the political spectrum to a greater degree than among those who are either apolitical or between those two poles. I have no idea if one pole has it worse than the other in this measure.

I have no data to back that up--just an educated guess.
The link provides data that addresses this.
 
This needs to be read by people:


“Bad Therapy” is simply a masterpiece — easily the most important book of the year. Unfortunately, it most desperately needs to be read by the very people who are likely most hostile to Shrier’s work. The book focuses on the harms of the therapeutic approach to raising our children and how the generation treated with the most psychological therapy and psychiatric drugs has become the most miserable, anxious, and disempowered generation on record. (“Disempowered,” by the way, was the original title of the book I wrote with Jonathan Haidt, which became “The Coddling of The American Mind.”)

Shrier comes to many of the same conclusions that Haidt and I came to in “Coddling,” which I’d sum up like this: As a culture, we seem to be teaching young people the mental habits of anxious and depressed people — encouraging them, often through example, to engage in negative mental exaggerations called cognitive distortions. It’s a kind of reverse-cognitive behavioral therapy. I’ve talked about this problem for the last decade, beginning with Haidt’s and my original 2015 article for The Atlantic, “The Coddling of the American Mind,” and most recently with my piece, “What’s behind the campus mental health crisis?” for UnHerd.

Shrier’s book also focuses on how parenting in the K-12 environment is informed by an ideology that completely undermines students’ sense of an internalized locus of control. Indeed, if you really want to make someone despondent, just persuade them that all important decisions are out of their hands and that they are essentially powerless in their own lives.

Or maybe tell a group of graduating college students that you have to work 10x as hard as whites to become successful?

Leftists are miserable, disagreeable people who do everything they can to make other people equally miserable, as can be seen from those on this forum.
 
Does being crazy cause people to be extreme left wingers, or does being an extreme left winger cause people to be crazy?

Here is an interesting article about extreme social justice advocates and mental health.

Read the whole thing.


While this is not a totally binary And there is overlap, my observation of what is written by politicians, pundits, and even people in this board, there are more cognitive distortions on the left than on the right. Evidence of that is the left’s catastrophization of so many issues. The link confirms this.

That’s not to say the extreme right doesn’t have its issues, it does. But extreme leftism has found considerable traction in academia which is a big influencer in government K-12 education and public opinion.
Very interesting article. I tend to think that political views come from who we trust in. Do we trust in the power of government first or the power of the individual? For instance those who are on the left want guns abolished. If they had their way this is what would be done. So who are the depending on to protect them? It is the government. They are not saying government has to get rid of their guns too. On the other hand those on the right see that every person has the right to bear arms to protect themselves against all enemies foreign and domestic. They trust in themselves. I found it interesting that young women and non binary tend to be very depressed. Why would that be? Women by and large are weaker than men. So they need to be protected. Yet feminism tells them to take care of themselves, that they are tough etc. At the same time they are telling women they can't have a gun for protection.
 
Or maybe tell a group of graduating college students that you have to work 10x as hard as whites to become successful?

Leftists are miserable, disagreeable people who do everything they can to make other people equally miserable, as can be seen from those on this forum.
Yeah...you're a blinding ray of sunshine.
 
Or maybe tell a group of graduating college students that you have to work 10x as hard as whites to become successful?

Leftists are miserable, disagreeable people who do everything they can to make other people equally miserable, as can be seen from those on this forum.

not a huge fan of race politics but not sure what all the outrage is about. the grads he was speaking to will make less than their white counterparts. probably for lots of reasons, but they still will make considerably less.

 
Very interesting article. I tend to think that political views come from who we trust in. Do we trust in the power of government first or the power of the individual? For instance those who are on the left want guns abolished. If they had their way this is what would be done. So who are the depending on to protect them? It is the government. They are not saying government has to get rid of their guns too. On the other hand those on the right see that every person has the right to bear arms to protect themselves against all enemies foreign and domestic. They trust in themselves. I found it interesting that young women and non binary tend to be very depressed. Why would that be? Women by and large are weaker than men. So they need to be protected. Yet feminism tells them to take care of themselves, that they are tough etc. At the same time they are telling women they can't have a gun for protection.
I don’t think it’s fair to say women are weaker mentally or in what it takes to accomplish great things. That said, there are mental, emotional and cognitive differences that the link confirms.
 
Very interesting article. I tend to think that political views come from who we trust in. Do we trust in the power of government first or the power of the individual? For instance those who are on the left want guns abolished. If they had their way this is what would be done. So who are the depending on to protect them? It is the government. They are not saying government has to get rid of their guns too. On the other hand those on the right see that every person has the right to bear arms to protect themselves against all enemies foreign and domestic. They trust in themselves. I found it interesting that young women and non binary tend to be very depressed. Why would that be? Women by and large are weaker than men. So they need to be protected. Yet feminism tells them to take care of themselves, that they are tough etc. At the same time they are telling women they can't have a gun for protection.
Oh boy.
 
not a huge fan of race politics but not sure what all the outrage is about. the grads he was speaking to will make less than their white counterparts. probably for lots of reasons, but they still will make considerably less.
The specific grads he was speaking to? Morehouse grads? Graduates of Georgia State which has a similar acceptance rate and SAT average earn $7K less on average upon graduation.

You say "lots of reasons" as if it's opaque. It's not.

GPA, school reputation, degree you graduated with. Those are the factors that matter. Even alluding to the idea that it might be race is complete and utter bullshit.
 
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The specific grads he was speaking to? Morehouse grads? Graduates of Georgia State which has a similar acceptance rate and SAT average earn $7K less on average upon graduation.

You say "lots of reasons" as if it's opaque. It's not.

GPA, school reputation, degree you graduated with. Those are the factors that matter. Even alluding to the idea that it might be race is complete and utter bullshit.

again, there are lots of reasons we can have separate conversations about but was he incorrect in saying those black college grads will have to work harder to achieve what white grads will? Maybe not 10X harder, but the data doesn't lie.
 
Then you're an idiot. If course they will have to work harder, on average. It's not racism, just reality.
Nah. To the extent there are hurdles for black people compared to the average person that require them to "work harder" those are all cleared once in college. Especially once a college graduate. At that point it's just a matter of decision making. And they make decisions that lead to lower incomes. No different from the "gender pay gap" myth.


That 'reality" only exists in the addled brain of our president, and yourself apparently.
 
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Nah. To the extent there are hurdles for black people compared to the average person that require them to "work harder" those are all cleared once in college.

so the hurdles that keep some communities from going to college at higher rates go away instantly once they get to college? that makes no sense

my dude, I promise you your hair won't turn blue and a septum ring won't appear in your nose if you let you guard down for two seconds and entertain the thought that for much longer than not Black folks were denied equal educational opportunities and that experience might have created some tough hurdles for families and individuals to overcome, even to this day. we know our opportunities are greatly dependent on the opportunities that were given to our parents and grandparents. again, stats.

was Biden trying to get votes with a statement like that? you betcha. doesn't mean there isn't truth there.
 
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my dude, I promise you your hair won't turn blue and a septum ring won't appear in your nose if you let you guard down for two seconds

Cheeky. But I’ll note I’ve heard nothing but bullshit conjecture from you and Goat so far in this thread. You keep referencing “data” yet I’m the only one that appears to be sharing any.

Step it up bud. You’re capable of better.
 
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