2023 Recruiting Musings

[Bucket Getter]

1. Does it seem crazy to anyone else that Woody and crew have flown to Montverde 3 times in 3 weeks after hosting two official visits for the same players? I'd guess there's nearly everyday conversations of some sort on top of that. What else is there to say to them at this point?
2. NIL sure has muddied the recruiting waters way past what anyone could have anticipated. Maybe. Or maybe the power brokers in college basketball knew NIL would allow the big dogs to eat.
3. Have recruiting budgets gone thru the roof in the past couple years? Sure seems like this whole affair comes with tremendously additional cost.
4. Woody is my age. I don't think I have the energy or appetite for spending so much time chasing HS kids that you'd want to coach. Glad he does.
5. Can anyone imagine Bob Knight existing in the current system?

 

[HoozierDaddy]

1. Hopefully they have bringing them bags of $$.
2. It’s out of control for sure. No rules and even if there was most wouldn’t follow them.
3. I think our budget has increased. We are trying to be committed to basketball.
4. Agree
5. Nope

 

[h20pls]

1. In the new, NIL era of recruiting. This doesn't surprise me. It's like closing any big deal (thinking in terms of your business or mine)...running to the decision maker trying to get them to press hard and make three copies...
2. See my response to #1. There's going to be a ton of this for top talent...and Hoozier's comment inre bags of $$ - - - I'm sure that's all part of the negotiation and closing.
3. No response.
4. Flying on a private plane is not nearly as taxing as commercial travel. I've done both...early in my career I worked for a company with a couple of jets...I got to the point where that's all I flew (they had the schedule on the Intranet and it cost me less than a commercial flight and I could keep in touch with my reps/customers with ease)...
5. Nope

 

[Bucket Getter]

1. In the new, NIL era of recruiting. This doesn't surprise me. It's like closing any big deal (thinking in terms of your business or mine)...running to the decision maker trying to get them to press hard and make three copies...
2. See my response to #1. There's going to be a ton of this for top talent...and Hoozier's comment inre bags of $$ - - - I'm sure that's all part of the negotiation and closing.
3. No response.
4. Flying on a private plane is not nearly as taxing as commercial travel. I've done both...early in my career I worked for a company with a couple of jets...I got to the point where that's all I flew (they had the schedule on the Intranet and it cost me less than a commercial flight and I could keep in touch with my reps/customers with ease)...
5. Nope

I see your point regarding big corporate deals, but this situation is really much more like hiring. I honestly can’t imagine a top-notch doctor, lawyer, or any other professional getting this level of attention and wooing. Let alone a 17 or 18 year old high school kid who’s probably never “worked” a day in his life. Just seems like the world has flipped upside down. I’m going out back to yell at some clouds now.

 

[kmathum]

1. Does it seem crazy to anyone else that Woody and crew have flown to Montverde 3 times in 3 weeks after hosting two official visits for the same players? I'd guess there's nearly everyday conversations of some sort on top of that. What else is there to say to them at this point?
2. NIL sure has muddied the recruiting waters way past what anyone could have anticipated. Maybe. Or maybe the power brokers in college basketball knew NIL would allow the big dogs to eat.
3. Have recruiting budgets gone thru the roof in the past couple years? Sure seems like this whole affair comes with tremendously additional cost.
4. Woody is my age. I don't think I have the energy or appetite for spending so much time chasing HS kids that you'd want to coach. Glad he does.
5. Can anyone imagine Bob Knight existing in the current system?

I remember when BK was recruiting Benson and Kent was in Germany for a high school all star game. BK told reporters he wouldn't go to Germany to recruit Jesus christ.

 

[Chicago-bound Hoosier]

5. NO F'N WAY IN HOLY HELL

FIFY

 

[Hatchets7times]

4..Huh...
He's making millions...That goes a long ways in Bloomington In...
Pete Carroll is 7 yrs older..Makes CMW look like he's heading to the nursing home...

 

[hookyIU1990]

4..Huh...
He's making millions...That goes a long ways in Bloomington In...
Pete Carroll is 7 yrs older..Makes CMW look like he's heading to the nursing home...

Wish I had an exclusive contract to provide Carroll's chewing gum.

 

[Jssanto]

I see your point regarding big corporate deals, but this situation is really much more like hiring. I honestly can’t imagine a top-notch doctor, lawyer, or any other professional getting this level of attention and wooing. Let alone a 17 or 18 year old high school kid who’s probably never “worked” a day in his life. Just seems like the world has flipped upside down. I’m going out back to yell at some clouds now.

I think your point is very valid.
Can you imagine, starting at age 10, being congratulated every day. Special treatment that increases into high school. When do the high school under the table benefits start?
Then as a 14 or 15 year old high school sophomore you meet million dollar coaches and prior nba stars?
How do parents raise these kids with a sense of right and wrong?
I would have been one arrogant jerk.

 

[IUNorth]

I see your point regarding big corporate deals, but this situation is really much more like hiring. I honestly can’t imagine a top-notch doctor, lawyer, or any other professional getting this level of attention and wooing. Let alone a 17 or 18 year old high school kid who’s probably never “worked” a day in his life. Just seems like the world has flipped upside down. I’m going out back to yell at some clouds now.

To be fair...pretty much all top level recruits work their asses off. Its actually what often separates the ranked kids from the thousands and thousands of talented kids that end up at smaller colleges...or "choose" to just go party at bigger schools.

There are exceptions to this, obviously. But they're exceptions, not the norm.

 

[Cavanagh]

To be fair...pretty much all top level recruits work their asses off. .

I couldn’t disagree more. HS kids get by with there god gifted ability. Rubber meets the road in college. You work your ass off to get to the NBA or flame out like Lander.

 

[IUNorth]

I couldn’t disagree more. HS kids get by with there god gifted ability. Rubber meets the road in college. You work your ass off to get to the NBA or flame out like Lander.

Sorry dude...you're wrong on this one. I'm going through it right now. Every single AAU, college coach, high level HS coach, etc, that I know anyways (a lot of them)... will tell you the most common differentiator between a D1 kid and NAIA type kids, or kids that just don't end up playing in college, is how much time, and how hard they work on their game.

The ones that end up being high major, NBA, etc... its a completely different level of work and dedication.

Obviously talent and athleticism plays a role. But these days, there are sooooo many big, skilled, athletic kids running around. And relative to the available talent pool, not a lot of D1 spots. Lack of work ethic and drive end up weeding most of the kids out of D1 schollys.

 

[Cavanagh]

Sorry dude...you're wrong on this one. I'm going through it right now. Every single AAU, college coach, high level HS coach, etc, that I know anyways (a lot of them)... will tell you the most common differentiator between a D1 kid and NAIA type kids, or kids that just don't end up playing in college, is how much time, and how hard they work on their game.

The ones that end up being high major, NBA, etc... its a completely different level of work and dedication.

Obviously talent and athleticism plays a role. But these days, there are sooooo many big, skilled, athletic kids running around. And relative to the available talent pool, not a lot of D1 spots. Lack of work ethic and drive end up weeding most of the kids out of D1 schollys.

Maybe for the 6'2 guy. If you are 6'8 and athletic you are playing D1 if you haven't picked up a bball in your life.

 

[IUNorth]

If you are 6'8 and athletic you are playing D1 if you haven't picked up a bball in your life.

Not even remotely true. Showing your ignorance on this one.

That USED to be true. It was true when I played years ago.

Go watch an NAIA game somewhere and report back. In pretty much any given NAIA game you'll see 3-4, 6'8" plus pretty good players. They're in NAIA because they didn't work as hard as the Butler, IPFW, Ball State kids did. Let alone the IU level kids.

 

[MG80]

Woody appears to be playing the recruitment of Liam, Queen and Boogie as a make or break moment for the program's future. I think he's also showing the heavyweights like Self, Cal, etc that IU's back in the fight for top talent and that he won't back down from the challenge. IMO It's a great message to send to both the elite coaches/recruiters and the great players (and their parents) out there. He's not screwing around when he says he wants to make the program elite again.

 

[IUNorth]

Maybe for the 6'2 guy. If you are 6'8 and athletic you are playing D1 if you haven't picked up a bball in your life.

Real world examples...

My son's 8th grade AAU team (2 springs ago), had a crazy athletic 6'8" kid. My son threw lob dunks to him routinely. He brought a ton of eyes to his games. 2 years later, not even a single D1 sniff, plays for a lower level AAU team now. Because he doesn't work as hard on his game as he could/should.

My son's high school team had a 6'8" senior last year. Good player. Athletic. Usually had at least 1 impressive dunk every game. Good touch. Solid free throw shooter. All conference level player. He'll be a backup at one of our local NAIA school's teams....until he figures out what real work looks like, and then if he wants to put in that real work.

There are literally hundreds, if not thousands of kids like the 2 I mentioned. And tons of them don't even end up playing NAIA level, let alone D1, or high major D1.

Work ethic, and willingness to put the time in is most often what separates them.

 

[Cavanagh]

Real world examples...

My son's 8th grade AAU team (2 springs ago), had a crazy athletic 6'8" kid. My son threw lob dunks to him routinely. He brought a ton of eyes to his games. 2 years later, not even a single D1 sniff, plays for a lower level AAU team now. Because he doesn't work as hard on his game as he could/should.

My son's high school team had a 6'8" senior last year. Good player. Athletic. Usually had at least 1 impressive dunk every game. Good touch. Solid free throw shooter. All conference level player. He'll be a backup at one of our local NAIA school's teams....until he figures out what real work looks like, and then if he wants to put in that real work.

There are literally hundreds, if not thousands of kids like the 2 I mentioned. And tons of them don't even end up playing NAIA level, let alone D1, or high major D1.

Work ethic, and willingness to put the time in is most often what separates them.

I bet your idea of athletic and mine are a bit different..... These guys have 40 inch verticals? JG is an athletic freak that started playing bball in HS. Those are the athletes that need to put in work, not your run of the mill guy that can dunk lol.

 

[IUNorth]

I bet your idea of athletic and mine are a bit different..... These guys have 40 inch verticals? JG is an athletic freak that started playing bball in HS. Those are the athletes that need to put in work, not your run of the mill guy that can dunk lol.

Hard eye roll...

There are varying levels of athleticism everywhere.

There are TONS of 6-8 kids that can run, handle the ball, jump well enough to dunk easily...that won't get D1 scholarships.

You can keep qualifying it if you want. But you're wrong with your main assumptions.

 

[Cavanagh]

Hard eye roll...

There are varying levels of athleticism everywhere.

There are TONS of 6-8 kids that can run, handle the ball, jump well enough to dunk easily...that won't get D1 scholarships.

You can keep qualifying it if you want. But you're wrong with your main assumptions.

Show me video on your 6’8 guy handling the ball and “athletic”.

 

[bsmitty08]

Show me video on your 6’8 guy handling the ball and “athletic”.

Hanner was an elite athlete who sucked at basketball but he could really dunk. Sooo he got the shot for high major bball.

 

[IUNorth]

Show me video on your 6’8 guy handling the ball and “athletic”.

Unnecessary as you'll just move the goal posts, I'm sure.

6-8 and a 40"+ vertical are outliers. I guess if THAT'S your qualification...sure, probably a lot of those types of kids get D1 schollys based off their size and athleticism. But I would also say a decent chunk of those kids also put in a ton of work as well.

But there are a lot of 6-8 kids handling the ball, drop stepping, catching lob dunks, hitting 3s, running around AAU tournaments every weekend, that end up at less than D1 schools.

 

[IUNorth]

Hanner was an elite athlete who sucked at basketball but he could really dunk. Sooo he got the shot for high major bball.

Outlier freak athlete.

And do we know that Hanner didn't work his ass off growing up? Some kids just aren't mentally able to put it all together. Doesn't mean they didn't work at it.

 

[bsmitty08]

Outlier freak athlete.

And do we know that Hanner didn't work his ass off growing up? Some kids just aren't mentally able to put it all together. Doesn't mean they didn't work at it.

Give me the highly skilled bball player over the freak athlete all day. It’s why you see the Luka, Jokic of the worlds dominating. They are better skilled

 

[IUNorth]

Give me the highly skilled bball player over the freak athlete all day. It’s why you see the Luka, Jokic of the worlds dominating. They are better skilled

Usually. In the end, I'll take efficiency. That can come from skill and/or athleticism. In general, you need a good blend of both to win at a high level these days.

 

[bsmitty08]

Usually. In the end, I'll take efficiency. That can come from skill and/or athleticism. In general, you need a good blend of both to win at a high level these days.

Agree you have to have both. Main thing holding PU back is they have skilled bball players but lacking some athletes

 

[.Gerdis]

Give me the highly skilled bball player over the freak athlete all day. It’s why you see the Luka, Jokic of the worlds dominating. They are better skilled

Fans can be lazy.

They focus on that incredible highlight reel play, but fail to watch away from the ball and ignore or don’t see all the breakdowns.

how many threads did we see here saying JG should start over Kopp?

 

[Oxford Collapse]

Give me the highly skilled bball player over the freak athlete all day. It’s why you see the Luka, Jokic of the worlds dominating. They are better skilled

Are you saying Jovic and Luka aren’t athletic? Are you high?

 

[i'vegotwinners]

Not even remotely true. Showing your ignorance on this one.

That USED to be true. It was true when I played years ago.

Go watch an NAIA game somewhere and report back. In pretty much any given NAIA game you'll see 3-4, 6'8" plus pretty good players. They're in NAIA because they didn't work as hard as the Butler, IPFW, Ball State kids did. Let alone the IU level kids.

Real world examples...

My son's 8th grade AAU team (2 springs ago), had a crazy athletic 6'8" kid. My son threw lob dunks to him routinely. He brought a ton of eyes to his games. 2 years later, not even a single D1 sniff, plays for a lower level AAU team now. Because he doesn't work as hard on his game as he could/should.

My son's high school team had a 6'8" senior last year. Good player. Athletic. Usually had at least 1 impressive dunk every game. Good touch. Solid free throw shooter. All conference level player. He'll be a backup at one of our local NAIA school's teams....until he figures out what real work looks like, and then if he wants to put in that real work.

There are literally hundreds, if not thousands of kids like the 2 I mentioned. And tons of them don't even end up playing NAIA level, let alone D1, or high major D1.

Work ethic, and willingness to put the time in is most often what separates them.

being 6'8" and athletic isn't the same as 6'8" and really athletic, with skills.

and a small difference in ability matters a lot.

what no one mentions is "court sense"/"instincts", which isn't talked about because it can't be objectively measured, but is also a HUGE difference maker between kids of seemingly otherwise equal ability..

and like ability, either you have it or you don't. it's not something that can be taught.

as for work ethic, i think that absolutely matters, but is a function of do you love the game or not, not how hard a worker are you.

if it's work, you're never going to out motivate someone for whom it's love.

 

[IUNorth]

being 6'8" and athletic isn't the same as 6'8" and really athletic, with skills.

and a small difference in ability matters a lot.

what no one mentions is "court sense"/"instincts", which isn't talked about because it can't be objectively measured, but is also a HUGE difference maker between kids of seemingly otherwise equal ability..

and like ability, either you have it or you don't. it's not something that can be taught.

as for work ethic, i think that absolutely matters, but is a function of do you love the game or not, not how hard a worker are you.

if it's work, you're never going to out motivate someone for whom it's love.

There are varying degrees of all of this. And the better a kid is at any/all of them, the better chance he has to be high major...D1...D2...etc...

But a very common denominator for the top kids, D1 kids, is they're bought in to working on their game and playing a lot of ball.

 

[bsmitty08]

Are you saying Jovic and Luka aren’t athletic? Are you high?

As far as NBA talent goes? No they are not

 

[i'vegotwinners]

There are varying degrees of all of this. And the better a kid is at any/all of them, the better chance he has to be high major...D1...D2...etc...

But a very common denominator for the top kids, D1 kids, is they're bought in to working on their game and playing a lot of ball.

being 6'8" and athletic isn't the same as 6'8" and really athletic, with skills.

and a small difference in ability matters a lot.

what no one mentions is "court sense"/"instincts", which isn't talked about because it can't be objectively measured, but is also a HUGE difference maker between kids of seemingly otherwise equal ability..

and like ability, either you have it or you don't. it's not something that can be taught.

as for work ethic, i think that absolutely matters, but is a function of do you love the game or not, not how hard a worker are you.

if it's work, you're never going to out motivate someone for whom it's love.

i disagree that they "bought in".

more like you couldn't stop them, because they loved the game.

those who have loved playing a sport, and those who haven't, know of what i speak.

the same goes in other walks of life.

you'll never out work/compete the guy for whom it's a love, and not work at all.