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One conservative’s argument for a Harris vote

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stollcpa said:
That’s certainly not a rational thing for a conservative to do as far as I am concerned. It would be 100% against everything this conservative believes.
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Well, Aloha’s premise is that somebody living in a swing state has to vote for one or the other. And that’s obviously not true.

Many people in the swing states will be voting for somebody other than Trump or Harris. I don’t even understand why he said that.
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One conservative’s argument for a Harris vote

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Aloha Hoosier said:
Whoa now! We’re told constantly by Trump supporters that he can’t be taken seriously on everything he says or that the people around him will control him. At the same time we’re supposed to take everything Harris says seriously and she’s not to be controlled by anyone around her. This is very interesting.
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You’re missing my point.

Why is Cuban saying this instead of her? This is a policy pronouncement. If it’s true she doesn’t support this tax, shouldn’t she tell us that?

I’m bringing this up in response to Frum’s argument that her true views are the new moderate ones, not the old leftist ones. That has nothing to do with Trump. Because I’m not arguing in his favor. I’m arguing against Frum’s assertion.
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One conservative’s argument for a Harris vote

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hookyIU1990 said:
That's a person responsible for why we're in this situation.
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This is so, so true. It absolutely is people like Frum who paved the way for a populist demagogue like Trump to ascend within the party.

They knew there was a schism between the party electeds and the party voters. I’ve heard them discuss it. Stuart Stevens has talked about it.

But they were operating off the flawed premise that Republican voters had nowhere else to turn to in their frustration.

They were thinking Democrats were the only alternative. They were…wrong.
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One conservative’s argument for a Harris vote

Aloha Hoosier
crazed_hoosier2 said:
I mean, she has a surrogate in Mark Cuban out there saying — during the homestretch of her campaign — that she’s not really going to do what she says she’s going to do viz taxing unrealized capital gains.

So…why is he saying that and not her?
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Whoa now! We’re told constantly by Trump supporters that he can’t be taken seriously on everything he says or that the people around him will control him. At the same time we’re supposed to take everything Harris says seriously and she’s not to be controlled by anyone around her. This is very interesting.
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One conservative’s argument for a Harris vote

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Aloha Hoosier said:
In some states you either have to vote for Trump or Harris because it’s close. I’d vote for Harris if I was in one of them. Other opinions are other opinions. At some point, the conservatives among us have to figure it out.
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There isn’t any circumstance where I’d vote for her.

But I don’t even know why this topic is getting so much discussion. She’s not going to be getting significantly more than the 6% of the Republican vote that Biden got. All told, she seems to be runnning behind Biden 2020 - if the polling is right, anyway.

I think people confuse prominent Republicans saying they support her with rank and file Republicans voting for her. I realize that the Dick Cheneys of the world get more attention than the Joe Q. Publics of the world. But we’re talking about single digit percentages of 1/3 of the electorate.
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One conservative’s argument for a Harris vote

Aloha Hoosier
crazed_hoosier2 said:
I think he has a couple of really bad premises.

First, that “moderate” Kamala is the real Kamala. That she’s not putting on an act today, she was putting on an act in 2019.

She’s a California politician - Bay Area. I believe her a lot more when she said she wanted to ban fracking, pay for prisoners to have sex changes, have government take over health insurance, etc. than I do when she disavows those things.

Second is that the far left is on its way out of the Democratic Party. Had it not been for some party maneuvering — especially in 2020 but also in 2016 — there’s a very good chance Bernie Sanders would’ve been the Dem nominee. Even when Biden became the nominee, Sanders was given a lot of influence over the party’s platform…by his own admission.

So I disagree that Frum made a rational argument. It rests upon these kinds of false premises.

There are plenty of good arguments for a conservative not to vote for Donald Trump. But there’s not a good argument for a conservative to vote for a Kamala Harris.

No sale.
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In some states you either have to vote for Trump or Harris because it’s close. I’d vote for Harris if I was in one of them. Other opinions are other opinions. At some point, the conservatives among us have to figure it out.
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One conservative’s argument for a Harris vote

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crazed_hoosier2 said:
Yes, I didn’t even think about that.

If the authentic Kamala is the moderate Kamala, why did she not vote that way in the Senate?

His argument against Trump is fine. His argument for Harris falls apart quickly and completely.

Brad, surely you can find a more rational one than this.
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I mean, she has a surrogate in Mark Cuban out there saying — during the homestretch of her campaign — that she’s not really going to do what she says she’s going to do viz taxing unrealized capital gains.

So…why is he saying that and not her?
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One conservative’s argument for a Harris vote

C
mcmurtry66 said:
Spot on. Add to it her record as the second most lib senator this century and selection of walz
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Yes, I didn’t even think about that.

If the authentic Kamala is the moderate Kamala, why did she not vote that way in the Senate?

His argument against Trump is fine. His argument for Harris falls apart quickly and completely.

Brad, surely you can find a more rational one than this.
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One conservative’s argument for a Harris vote

C
crazed_hoosier2 said:
I think he has a couple of really bad premises.

First, that “moderate” Kamala is the real Kamala. That she’s not putting on an act today, she was putting on an act in 2019.

She’s a California politician - Bay Area. I believe her a lot more when she said she wanted to ban fracking, pay for prisoners to have sex changes, have government take over health insurance, etc. than I do when she disavows those things.

Second is that the far left is on its way out of the Democratic Party. Had it not been for some party maneuvering — especially in 2020 but also in 2016 — there’s a very good chance Bernie Sanders would’ve been the Dem nominee. Even when Biden became the nominee, Sanders was given a lot of influence over the party’s platform…by his own admission.

So I disagree that Frum made a rational argument. It rests upon these kinds of false premises.

There are plenty of good arguments for a conservative not to vote for Donald Trump. But there’s not a good argument for a conservative to vote for a Kamala Harris.

No sale.
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On that first point (about which Kamala is the real Kamala), ask yourself this: when and under what circumstances did she begin uttering these moderate positions?

Was it after she dropped out of the 2020 primary? Was it after she was inaugurated as VP?

Nope. It was when she suddenly found herself as the Democratic nominee in July…needing to win elections in places like Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and Michigan.

She did it out of sudden political necessity.
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One conservative’s argument for a Harris vote

Aloha Hoosier
snarlcakes said:
How do you feel about all the Cheney types aligning with Democrats Brad? The one thing I have been consistent is my disdain for people like him. I couldn’t stand him when I was a liberal in the early 2000s and couldn’t stand him when I became a conservative. I do appreciate Trump and MAGA scaring rent seeking pussies like him out of the party.
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They aren’t “Cheney types” and you aren’t a conservative.
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One conservative’s argument for a Harris vote

C
BradStevens said:
Nah, he makes a rational argument. It's one advanced by Aloha here as well.
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I think he has a couple of really bad premises.

First, that “moderate” Kamala is the real Kamala. That she’s not putting on an act today, she was putting on an act in 2019.

She’s a California politician - Bay Area. I believe her a lot more when she said she wanted to ban fracking, pay for prisoners to have sex changes, have government take over health insurance, etc. than I do when she disavows those things.

Second is that the far left is on its way out of the Democratic Party. Had it not been for some party maneuvering — especially in 2020 but also in 2016 — there’s a very good chance Bernie Sanders would’ve been the Dem nominee. Even when Biden became the nominee, Sanders was given a lot of influence over the party’s platform…by his own admission.

So I disagree that Frum made a rational argument. It rests upon these kinds of false premises.

There are plenty of good arguments for a conservative not to vote for Donald Trump. But there’s not a good argument for a conservative to vote for a Kamala Harris.

No sale.
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