Woodson: I've learned you win with good guard play and I'm trying to build IU to play like my Knicks teams

[BradStevens]

SIAP

Mike Woodson acknowledges lessons learned when it comes to guard production and depth

Indiana has missed the NCAA Tournament six of the last eight years. Sorry to ruin your day with that reminder. But it’s a fact, and a run of futility that spans three coaches, and has Hoosier…

www.thedailyhoosier.com

 

[.Gerdis]

Rain is wet.

 

[Tammany Hall]

It’s not great to have a veteran coach making big $ learning these sort of basics in year three.

But, it is what it is, and the program went and recruited a very good backcourt — real action was taken and that’s good. Maybe this is a roster Woody can do well with.

 

[Jssanto]

It’s not great to have a veteran coach making big $ learning these sort of basics in year three.

But, it is what it is, and the program went and recruited a very good backcourt — real action was taken and that’s good. Maybe this is a roster Woody can do well with.

To try and find a positive, at least he learned.

 

[RegionHoosiers]

I try not to read much into coach speak these days, but it's odd that he's essentially saying it took him 3 years to figure out that he needs to build a college team that is like how he built his pro teams.

Either way there's talent on this team and we'll see what he can do with it.

 

[HoosierJimbo89]

I suppose rolling out one of the worst backcourts will really hammer that point home.

 

[Bucket Getter]

It’s not great to have a veteran coach making big $ learning these sort of basics in year three.

But, it is what it is, and the program went and recruited a very good backcourt — real action was taken and that’s good. Maybe this is a roster Woody can do well with.

If he doesn’t, I hope his bag men pull the bag. I honestly can’t imagine how he’s just now learning this.

 

[Bucket Getter]

I try not to read much into coach speak these days, but it's odd that he's essentially saying it took him 3 years to figure out that he needs to build a college team that is like how he built his pro teams.

Either way there's talent on this team and we'll see what he can do with it.

3 years plus 40 in the league? Dude is 66. He’s also got a half-dozen assistants. Shouldn’t one of them maybe have mentioned that fact?

 

[T.M.P.]

I honestly can’t imagine how he’s just now learning this.

I can, it actually has nothing to do with him but instead just bored idiot fans trying to make something out of an innocuous statement ..

 

[Bucket Getter]

I can, it actually has nothing to do with him but instead just bored idiot fans trying to make something out of an innocuous statement ..

Ok genius, show me (and the rest of the world) a similarly clueless comment made by Knight, Keady, K, Brad Stevens, Izzo, or hell, even Painter. We’ll hang up and wait.

 

[IUNorth]

Ok genius, show me (and the rest of the world) a similarly clueless comment made by Knight, Keady, K, Brad Stevens, Izzo, or hell, even Painter. We’ll hang up and wait.

My take/guess...

Woodson is a guy that focuses on his teams strengths...he game plans for them, and he talks about his team accordingly with the media. And this next team of his has the best backcourt and wing roster he's had while at IU. So...all of a sudden, guard play is a topic he's willing to talk more about, and put importance on publicly.

Its been important all along, he's had some talented guards, and he's tried to get a bunch more. But at this point before his first 3 seasons, he chose to focus more talk and emphasis on his front courts, because they were the obvious strength of his teams.

I'm glad he's "figured it out"...no matter how its happened, or why he's talking about it, its better for IU bball.

Now...does he know how to utilize them?

 

[ulrey]

I can, it actually has nothing to do with him but instead just bored idiot fans trying to make something out of an innocuous statement ..

Compelling and riveting

 

[Bucket Getter]

My take/guess...

Woodson is a guy that focuses on his teams strengths...he game plans for them, and he talks about his team accordingly with the media. And this next team of his has the best backcourt and wing roster he's had while at IU. So...all of a sudden, guard play is a topic he's willing to talk more about, and put importance on publicly.

Its been important all along, he's had some talented guards, and he's tried to get a bunch more. But at this point before his first 3 seasons, he chose to focus more talk and emphasis on his front courts, because they were the obvious strength of his teams.

I'm glad he's "figured it out"...no matter how its happened, or why he's talking about it, its better for IU bball.

Now...does he know how to utilize them?

Probably. And we all sure hope so.

 

[Hoosier Clarion]

Ok genius, show me (and the rest of the world) a similarly clueless comment made by Knight, Keady, K, Brad Stevens, Izzo, or hell, even Painter. We’ll hang up and wait.

I'm also at the genius level like T.M.P. It was a very innocuous statement.

 

[EvansvilleHoosier88]

My take/guess...

Woodson is a guy that focuses on his teams strengths...he game plans for them, and he talks about his team accordingly with the media. And this next team of his has the best backcourt and wing roster he's had while at IU. So...all of a sudden, guard play is a topic he's willing to talk more about, and put importance on publicly.

Its been important all along, he's had some talented guards, and he's tried to get a bunch more. But at this point before his first 3 seasons, he chose to focus more talk and emphasis on his front courts, because they were the obvious strength of his teams.

I'm glad he's "figured it out"...no matter how its happened, or why he's talking about it, its better for IU bball.

Now...does he know how to utilize them?

Yeah, I perceived it as he finally realized that he needed to go all in for guard talent. Maybe that explains why he landed two top guards without letting them explore other options. This past year better have pushed him to go for broke. Make your pitch and open the purse to make sure the guards you identify sign the NLI!

 

[Bippy]

I can, it actually has nothing to do with him but instead just bored idiot fans trying to make something out of an innocuous statement ..

Thank you. Nice to know I am not the only sane person on this forum.
CMW inherited most of his guards and it seems most of our "friends" think he personally injured the guards he had.
This year we should see healthy guards that he recruited (through the portal or out of high school). I hope these clowns are equally honest next April when we see a great team with its excellent coaching.

 

[Bucket Getter]

Thank you. Nice to know I am not the only sane person on this forum.
CMW inherited most of his guards and it seems most of our "friends" think he personally injured the guards he had.
This year we should see healthy guards that he recruited (through the portal or out of high school). I hope these clowns are equally honest next April when we see a great team with its excellent coaching.

Partnership with “Dumb” is risky business bro.

 

[BradStevens]

Everyone’s focused on his guard comment, which was a weird self-own.

I’m more worried he thinks his Knicks teams’ systems are something to emulate.

 

[ulrey]

Thank you. Nice to know I am not the only sane person on this forum.
CMW inherited most of his guards and it seems most of our "friends" think he personally injured the guards he had.
This year we should see healthy guards that he recruited (through the portal or out of high school). I hope these clowns are equally honest next April when we see a great team with its excellent coaching.

Below average winning percentage in the NBA.. excellent coaching lol

 

[EvansvilleHoosier88]

Below average winning percentage in the NBA.. excellent coaching lol

Took a sub .500 team and had them playing top 3 offensive ball despite injuries to starting 5. Your point is not as sound as you would like to believe.

 

[ulrey]

Took a sub .500 team and had them playing top 3 offensive ball despite injuries to starting 5. Your point is not as sound as you would like to believe.

315-365 463% hooray..

 

[EvansvilleHoosier88]

315-365 463% hooray..

The discussion is relating to his comment about his knicks teams. However, he took over a Hawks team that was among the worst in the league and won more games every season while turning them into a 54 win team. I’m far from a Woodson apologist. There are cases to be made against him as a coach, but just don’t be the guy to make the stupid argument.

 

[ulrey]

The discussion is relating to his comment about his knicks teams. However, he took over a Hawks team that was among the worst in the league and won more games every season while turning them into a 54 win team. I’m far from a Woodson apologist. There are cases to be made against him as a coach, but just don’t be the guy to make the stupid argument.

My fault.

 

[Jssanto]

I try not to read much into coach speak these days, but it's odd that he's essentially saying it took him 3 years to figure out that he needs to build a college team that is like how he built his pro teams.

Either way there's talent on this team and we'll see what he can do with it.

I agree. This seems a very straight forward point to me. If he cannot win with this roster, he cannot win.

 

[kkott]

Thank you. Nice to know I am not the only sane person on this forum.
CMW inherited most of his guards and it seems most of our "friends" think he personally injured the guards he had.
This year we should see healthy guards that he recruited (through the portal or out of high school). I hope these clowns are equally honest next April when we see a great team with its excellent coaching.

I think folks try to read too much, or what they want, into such comments. He's in front of the media taking unscripted questions with mics in his face. He's got to say something. Not everything is profound or well thought out. Most of it is just coach speak.

 

[Jssanto]

Everyone’s focused on his guard comment, which was a weird self-own.

I’m more worried he thinks his Knicks teams’ systems are something to emulate.

Good point. I was so focused on/concerned with the guard comment, I did not think about the college vs pro angle.
This team seems to me, as a non coach and non former college player, to have a roster that should compete for big ten titles and make a deep NCAA run. If we were to flounder (excluding say the first ten games to give Woody a chance to figure out combinations that work) I would guess the hot seat talk takes on even a hotter tone.

 

[IndyResident16]

Everyone’s focused on his guard comment, which was a weird self-own.

I’m more worried he thinks his Knicks teams’ systems are something to emulate.

-Went 18-6 after D’Antoni resigned mid-year and thrusted the Knicks into the playoffs

-Went 54-27 in his first full season. No Knick team to this day has won as many games in a single season. That Knicks “system” lead the NBA in 3 pointers made and 3 pointers attempted.

-Glen Grunwald was demoted as GM in favor of Steve Mills (lol) at the conclusion of that season. Went a disappointing 37-45 but still finished 5th and 7th in attempted and made three pointers

-Steve Mills was so bad at his job that they had to bring Phil Jackson in and within a week cleaned house in favor of Derek Fisher who was familiar with his triangle offense. Derek Fisher won 17 games the year after they fired Woodson and Knicks never sniffed the playoffs for the remainder of the Mills/Jackson years.

If emulating his Knicks teams system means more three pointers attempted and subsequently more three's made....sign me the hell up. People who use Woody's tenure with the Knicks as some kind of burn against him have no clue what they hell they are talking about.

 

[Blimpy]

Yeah, I perceived it as he finally realized that he needed to go all in for guard talent. Maybe that explains why he landed two top guards without letting them explore other options. This past year better have pushed him to go for broke. Make your pitch and open the purse to make sure the guards you identify sign the NLI!

Its better guard talent, but I'm not sure it is even top 5 in the BT. According to CBS, Rice is rated the #50, Caryle at #77, and that's portal ratings not overall college talent rankings. Hell, Illinois has Boswell coming in at #11, Maryland has Gillespie at #31, Michigan has Donaldson at #55 and Rodney Gale at #59 and Ohio State has Johnson at #56. Its good talent, but far from top talent!

 

[kkott]

Its better guard talent, but I'm not sure it is even top 5 in the BT. According to CBS, Rice is rated the #50, Caryle at #77, and that's portal ratings not overall college talent rankings. Hell, Illinois has Boswell coming in at #11, Maryland has Gillespie at #31, Michigan has Donaldson at #55 and Rodney Gale at #59 and Ohio State has Johnson at #56. Its good talent, but far from top talent!

well, we got 2 starting caliber guards (who know each other and I think played AAU together) in the portal and you're only listing 1 for each of the other schools, AND we have Galloway and Cupps returning who both played a lot of minutes, AND we have Leal, Tucker, Goode and Newton... As you say, that may not mean a lot ratings wise, but it's a much deeper and more skilled guard/wing corp than we had last year. In the case of IL, OSU, MSU and UM they lost a good bit also. I think there's a lot of reasons to be far more excited about this group and their prospects, rankings be damned.

 

[Grateful Redbeard]

Its better guard talent, but I'm not sure it is even top 5 in the BT. According to CBS, Rice is rated the #50, Caryle at #77, and that's portal ratings not overall college talent rankings. Hell, Illinois has Boswell coming in at #11, Maryland has Gillespie at #31, Michigan has Donaldson at #55 and Rodney Gale at #59 and Ohio State has Johnson at #56. Its good talent, but far from top talent!

ESPN ranks them very differently:

Carlyle is #18 overall and Rice is #17 overall.
Boswell is #36
Gillespie is #80
Gayle is #62
Donaldson is NR
Johnson is #57

It's an ESPN insider article

 

[Tammany Hall]

Rice and Carlyle were some of the top guards in the portal. Check 24/7, they’re better than CBS.

If they aren’t top talent we have a separate issue. I don’t think this we have a separate issue — they’re very good.

 

[EvansvilleHoosier88]

ESPN ranks them very differently:

Carlyle is #18 overall and Rice is #17 overall.
Boswell is #36
Gillespie is #80
Gayle is #62
Donaldson is NR
Johnson is #57

It's an ESPN insider article

Exactly. On3 has Carlyle #13 and Rice #34. It just goes to show that evaluators see different things they like, and the only evaluation that matters for next season is how the staff evaluated and envisioned them for the team. Bottom line is that we got two talented guards regardless of where CBS, ESPN, On3, etc rank them. They were identified early and were not allowed to leave campus without being locked up.

 

[IndyResident16]

Rice and Carlyle were some of the top guards in the portal. Check 24/7, they’re better than CBS.

If they aren’t top talent we have a separate issue. I don’t think this we have a separate issue — they’re very good.

Rice won P12 FOY and was 1st team All-P12 and lead his team to the tournament for the first time since 2008. I find that to be more telling than any site evaluation ranking although Carlyle and Rice are generally regarded high end transfers by every site not named CBS.

 

[Eurocyldon]

Have to agree. CMW should have already known the importance of guard play and the need for legit depth.

One, he played long enough to know. Two, he coached in the NBA and it applied there also. Three, the season before he lost X and it put them In a tough spot where fortunately JHS was able to step up to the point he became a first round draft pick. To suggest last season flipped the switch and these things just occurred to him is concerning.

More accurate to say he missed on his primary recruiting targets and didn't have enough options who were ready to play. Trey has been forced to play out of position for two seasons. Gabe was forced to play more than he should as a freshman.

 

[Imsowyctcwuzbetta]

Have to agree. CMW should have already known the importance of guard play and the need for legit depth.

One, he played long enough to know. Two, he coached in the NBA and it applied there also. Three, the season before he lost X and it put them In a tough spot where fortunately JHS was able to step up to the point he became a first round draft pick. To suggest last season flipped the switch and these things just occurred to him is concerning.

More accurate to say he missed on his primary recruiting targets and didn't have enough options who were ready to play. Trey has been forced to play out of position for two seasons. Gabe was forced to play more than he should as a freshman.

what makes you think he didn't.... do you really think any coach wouldn't know the importance? He had recruited high level guards that could have changed the result last year but one went to the NBA as a one and done and the other was injured for his entire freshman year thus relying on a transfer and hold overs from a previous coach. This coming year the guard rotation is encouraging.

 

[RegionHoosiers]

Have to agree. CMW should have already known the importance of guard play and the need for legit depth.

One, he played long enough to know. Two, he coached in the NBA and it applied there also. Three, the season before he lost X and it put them In a tough spot where fortunately JHS was able to step up to the point he became a first round draft pick. To suggest last season flipped the switch and these things just occurred to him is concerning.

More accurate to say he missed on his primary recruiting targets and didn't have enough options who were ready to play. Trey has been forced to play out of position for two seasons. Gabe was forced to play more than he should as a freshman.

That's why it's coach speak. It's not he was going to say well we did want guards the past couple years but we kept striking out, so we had to play to the strength of the guys we did land.

I think it's more accurate to say he's now learned how to recruit in the college world - it takes lots of $.

 

[IUCrazy2]

well, we got 2 starting caliber guards (who know each other and I think played AAU together) in the portal and you're only listing 1 for each of the other schools, AND we have Galloway and Cupps returning who both played a lot of minutes, AND we have Leal, Tucker, Goode and Newton... As you say, that may not mean a lot ratings wise, but it's a much deeper and more skilled guard/wing corp than we had last year. In the case of IL, OSU, MSU and UM they lost a good bit also. I think there's a lot of reasons to be far more excited about this group and their prospects, rankings be damned.

The roster is there. Most early rankings I see have us around 15 in the country. That seems fair given the roster. I think our expectations should be around what would come with that. Gonzaga finished at that position this past year and was a 27-8 team. The expectation should be around that (I would say 25 wins given Gonzaga plays in a lesser league).

 

[ulrey]

Its better guard talent, but I'm not sure it is even top 5 in the BT. According to CBS, Rice is rated the #50, Caryle at #77, and that's portal ratings not overall college talent rankings. Hell, Illinois has Boswell coming in at #11, Maryland has Gillespie at #31, Michigan has Donaldson at #55 and Rodney Gale at #59 and Ohio State has Johnson at #56. Its good talent, but far from top talent!

Don’t come in with facts!!

 

[IndyResident16]

Don’t come in with facts!!

Facts are that CBS has Rice and Carlyle ranked significantly lower than every other talent evaluation site and CBS doesn't have anywhere near the credibility as On3, 247, Rivals, etc.

Myles Rice rankings:
On3: 34
Rivals: 20
247: 24

Kannan Carlyle rankings:
On3: 13
Rivals: 8
247: 15

Anyone using CBS clearly has an agenda and it's evident.

 

[Grateful Redbeard]

Don’t come in with facts!!

I posted the ESPN rankings right below the post you chose to quote. There are 3 major ranking services and CBS has our guards ranked considerably lower than the other 2. Don’t talk about facts and only give 1/3 of the story