Too much for even Collins & Murkowski. Goes well beyond Roe. From the pro-abortion party.
Women's Health Protection Act
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This is definitely the progressive playbook. It is there for everyone to see that chooses to do so.
-Prohibit government entities from imposing any limitation that “expressly, effectively, implicitly, or as implemented singles out” and “impedes access to” abortion. What does “single out” mean in this context? Is it defined?
-Prevent states from protecting children from abortion based on their sex, race, or diagnosis of a genetic abnormality such as Down syndrome.
-Endanger policies that protects rights of conscience
-Prevent states from enacting policies that protect children from late-term abortion procedures
It is poor legislation.
Don't worry. There's not a chance this makes it through the Senate.
Meanwhile, back at the state level, there are legislative proposals and enactments that are pushing new legal boundaries. For example:
1) Texas legislation promoting "private citizen" enforcement of a ban on abortions after detection of a fetal heartbeat.
2) Louisiana's advancement of a bill that would classify abortion as homicide.
3) Missouri's legislative proposal aimed at preventing residents of Missouri from traveling out of state to obtain an abortion.
It's gonna get crazy. The Court has opened a Pandora's box.
So, they’d let a child who survived an abortion procedure then die? You know, if a state had a law protecting such a child?
If that’s true, then that’s perverted and demented.
I realize it won't pass right now. What's disturbing is that it would pass if Democratic senate & house leadership had its way. Imo, Schumer, Pelosi, Adam S., the squad....all evil. As for the politics of the matter, its pretty foolish to force a vote on such a horrible bill......are they that afraid of protesters at their houses? Trying to stay one step ahead of their mob?
I wouldn't be in favor of any of the proposed state legislation you reference.
Just to be clear, The Texas law I referenced isn't proposed - - it's been enacted.
There are wackadoodles on both sides of this issue. Protesting at Justices' homes is beyond the pale and could lead to someone getting hurt.
My understanding is that Schumer will force a vote so there's a public record of where each senator stands. That will, no doubt, be used as political fodder as election season heats up.
Finally, we've got to get away from labeling everyone we disagree with and/or don't like as "evil." We see it on this board with increasing frequency and throughout media. We need to stop demonizing people at every turn.
Also, while I'm thinking about it, I love the posters here (and you're not one of them) who call someone a "stupid POS douchebag" or something similar and then, a moment later, feel compelled to add "I don't like you." Isn't that apparent from the initial comment? And do they think that's ruining the recipient's day? Makes me laugh.
I liked what I read about the Collins/Murkowski bill. Would have made abortion legal but allowed states to enact certain restrictions (like illegal after 24 weeks). It wouldn’t have passed either, but maybe could be a rough draft of a compromise down the road. At the least the optics would look better
We've already got anti-abortion states trying to extend the prohibitions to states where abortion is - and will remain - - legal. I agree we need federal legislation or this will get completely out of hand.
After Roe v Wade, next U.S. abortion battle: state v state
With the U.S. Supreme Court expected to strike down the right to an abortion, the next legal fault line is already taking shape as lawmakers from anti-abortion states explore ways to take the radical step of extending bans to states where the procedure remains legal.
www.reuters.com
What if, under normal circumstances, you like stupid POS douchebags, or you even are one?
BTW, great point about calling the other side "evil". Even though I mostly disagree with our conservative brethren, and Trump is obviously a horrible human being, the GOP is not "evil"...just misguided. I think the right wing has the best interest of the country at heart, just like the liberals. They just have a different plan to achieve their goals. Thus, the source of my posts referencing how I have to come here to find out how much of a dumpster fire train wreck this country seems to be since we had the gall to elect a liberal president. If Trump was that great, his achievements should have been unassailable.
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anon_mya1phvcpf5x4
Guest
25 percent support no limits on abortion. 75 percent support significantly limiting abortion (after the first trimester).
The vast majority do not believe that medical professionals should be forced to participate in abortions.
The vast majority do not want their tax dollars to fund abortions.
This should be the proposed legislation.
Nothing more…nothing less.
Bring it to a vote.
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anon_mya1phvcpf5x4
Guest
At what point in the pregnancy can a baby sense stimulation from outside the womb?and 99% of statistics are made up
At what point in the pregnancy does the baby have the capacity to feel pain?
Do you support abortion at the time where the baby can feel pain?
I think that’s a bit inaccurate. Pew survey found 19% in favor of abortion in all instances, 15% legal at 14 weeks, 7% legal with some exceptions, timing doesn’t matter and 22% saying it depends at 14 weeks. That leaves only 33% who believe abortion should be illegal at 14 weeks, which is roughly the end of the first trimester.
1. Americans’ views on whether, and in what circumstances, abortion should be legal
As the long-running debate over abortion reaches another key moment at the Supreme Court and in state legislatures across the country, a
www.pewresearch.org
It is all in how the question is phrased.I think that’s a bit inaccurate. Pew survey found 19% in favor of abortion in all instances, 15% legal at 14 weeks, 7% legal with some exceptions, timing doesn’t matter and 22% saying it depends at 14 weeks. That leaves only 33% who believe abortion should be illegal at 14 weeks, which is roughly the end of the first trimester.
1. Americans’ views on whether, and in what circumstances, abortion should be legal
As the long-running debate over abortion reaches another key moment at the Supreme Court and in state legislatures across the country, a
If the question is, “Should abortion be legal at the point where the baby can feel pain”?
3 in 4 would say no.
Science tells us that is as early as 12 weeks and definitely by 15 weeks. Which as correctly noted is the end of the first trimester.
I’m seeing 23 weeks at the earliest and a lot of 28-29 weeks. Again, I would say your claim that 75% of Americans are opposed to abortion after the first trimester is inaccurate.
We can all find a poll that supports whatever end game we want.
I stand by my assertion that if the question posed is “Should abortion be legal at the point in the pregnancy where the baby can feel pain?”…then 3 out of 4 are going to say no.
Seems like framing the question that way is leading the respondent. I did look up the study you were referring to and I will say I did not know neither anaesthesia or analgesia are generally used for abortions, while they are used in other procedures involving fetuses. I think that should be required.
Abortion providers would fight that tooth and nail because of the obvious questions it raises. Which is what Spartan is getting at. When you blow through all the euphemisms used to mask and obfuscate the pro-choice position, the majority of people get real squeamish, real quick with abortion.
Kind of hard to argue that the clump of cells should need anesthesia without accepting the obvious. Which again, is why I had mentioned in another thread that I have zero qualms about my position on abortion. I don't have to play mental gymnastics and on the parts where I may have some uncertainty, my position tends to fall on the side that ends in a life as opposed to ends a life.
12-15 weeks is the point at which the baby can feel pain. That should be knowledge that everyone deciding this issue should know.
I prefer “educating” as opposed to “leading”.
the court didn’t do anything yet. A betrayal was made that did this. To ignore that distinction is pathetic.
Minor correction: science does not and cannot tell us when/if a fetus feels pain. That's an inference that is drawn from the observations that science makes, but it's impossible to confirm.
everyone is making this too complicated. There is a major ultrasound done at 20 weeks that reveals a massive amount of medical detail about the fetus.
after that plus a reasonable period (one week is too short, four weeks too long) say 22 weeks is a reasonable compromise that both sides should support. It reduces issues around viability for the pro life crowd and protects the most vital period for the pro choice crowd.
I’d go along with this barring serious medical complications with fetus or mother.
yea I agree that serious exceptions (medical, rape, incest) could be extended or uncapped. I think if pro lifers could get comfortable that abortions happening later in the second and during the third trimester were only limited to those, it would get compromise.
2/3s of my conservative female friends & family on social media have started throwing up “don’t tread on my uterus” memes and the like. They are usually a polite bunch but they are PISSED. I imagine a lot of their husbands are learning how to STFU real quick-like.
Scientists believe a baby can feel pain between 12 and 15 weeks based on observations.
“Do you believe abortion should be legal at the point where the baby can most likely feel pain”?
Would you vote for the WHPA?
They should induce labor if the mother’s life is in jeopardy by not doing so.
Anyone that disagrees with that is an idiot.
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anon_mya1phvcpf5x4
Guest
It is too bad i have no faith that the government could come up with that compromise.
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Some scientists think that. Others think it is more like 24 weeks. Yet others question if any fetus at any age, or perhaps even infants, can truly experience pain as we understand it. It's a very complicated issue.
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anon_mya1phvcpf5x4
Guest
Anecdotal evidence supports the fact that infants can feel acute pain.
It’s a complicated issue that very few really want to discuss.
Like Congress….most want to dance around and not vote
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anon_6hv78pr714xta
Guest
Cite for a scientist questioning whether an infant can feel pain?
Your phrase “as we understand it” is doing a lot of work in that post. It would help to clarify it.
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anon_6hv78pr714xta
Guest
This recent study suggests doctors don’t give anesthesia to babies, indirectly supporting Goats statement. I find this bizarre in the extreme. Have these people never had a baby?
Babies feel pain 'like adults' | University of Oxford
The brains of babies 'light up' in a very similar way to adults when exposed to the same painful stimulus, a pioneering Oxford University brain scanning study has discovered. It suggests that babies experience pain much like adults.
They don't know the long term risks of giving anesthesia to babies. That's why any elective surgeries are typically postponed until they are six months - ish. The length of time under is also impt with re to behavioral/cognitive consequencesThis recent study suggests doctors don’t give anesthesia to babies, indirectly supporting Goats statement. I find this bizarre in the extreme. Have these people never had a baby?
Babies feel pain 'like adults' | University of Oxford
The brains of babies 'light up' in a very similar way to adults when exposed to the same painful stimulus, a pioneering Oxford University brain scanning study has discovered. It suggests that babies experience pain much like adults.www.ox.ac.uk
I'm on my phone but this is a topic I'd very much like to get into. In a couple hours I'll have more.
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anon_6hv78pr714xta
Guest
No clue. Here’s a Wikipedia article but it lacks supporting cites for its claims about this:
Pain in babies - Wikipedia
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