Who is the bigger threat to democracy trump or biden?

[Ohio Guy]

Now you're making things up. I never said I was "willing to vote" for Trump. Ironically, I'm assuming you would vote for Biden, and yet, he has needed to be "reigned in by the federal courts" too (see the previously posted decision regarding student loan forgiveness).

Please link a quote from Trump where he states that he will appoint federal judges "he deems loyal." Even if he said it and meant it, your worries rely upon a real ignorance about federal judges, who they are, what they do, and how the entire federal judicial system works.

Trump appointed over 150 federal judges in his first term. If you don't think there hasn't been cultural, ideological and legal repercussions from that, you're more idealistic about the federal judiciary than I first thought.

It's not like I'm suggesting that Trump is just going to appoint judges who will just rescind the constitution. But his appointment of young, far-right judges has already had long term repercussions. As Sonia Sotomayor said, the judiciary is where policy is made.

 

[snarlcakes]

Now you're making things up. I never said I was "willing to vote" for Trump. Ironically, I'm assuming you would vote for Biden, and yet, he has needed to be "reigned in by the federal courts" too (see the previously posted decision regarding student loan forgiveness).

Please link a quote from Trump where he states that he will appoint federal judges "he deems loyal." Even if he said it and meant it, your worries rely upon a real ignorance about federal judges, who they are, what they do, and how the entire federal judicial system works.

I can’t wait for you to walk into 3UP with your flat bill red MAGA hat.

@mcmurtry66 great thread. This is going to be a spicy one. Also, no opinion is a vote for Biden being a greater threat @UncleMark @TheOriginalHappyGoat @cosmickid @DCGeneral @Stuffshot @ButHerEmails @twenty02

What are your thoughts @stollcpa?

 

[Bowlmania]

I am an atheist

One of my brothers is an atheist. So is one of my best friends. Guy is involved in a shitload of volunteer, charitable endeavors. I tell him he's more Christ-like than most of my Christian friends. He laughs and tells me he's just hedging his bets in case he's wrong.

None of my atheist friends and relatives seem very happy. I hope you're the exception.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Trump appointed over 150 federal judges in his first term. If you don't think there hasn't been cultural, ideological and legal repercussions from that, you're more idealistic about the federal judiciary than I first thought.

It's not like I'm suggesting that Trump is just going to appoint judges who will just rescind the constitution. But his appointment of young, far-right judges has already had long term repercussions. As Sonia Sotomayor said, the judiciary is where policy is made.

and so would a lefty doing the same on myriad issues. you just cannot see how partisan you are. that's the point of this thread

 

[mcmurtry66]

One of my brothers is an atheist. So is one of my best friends. Guy is involved in a shitload of volunteer, charitable endeavors. I tell him he's more Christ-like than most of my Christian friends. He laughs and tells me he's just hedging his bets in case he's wrong.

None of my atheist friends and relatives seem very happy. I hope you're the exception.

i have an atheist friend who literally is the happiest guy i know and leads the life of riley his life is so damn charmed. cortez will attest

 

[Bowlmania]

I can’t wait for you to walk into 3UP with your flat bill red MAGA hat.

@mcmurtry66 great thread. This is going to be a spicy one. Also, no opinion is a vote for Biden being a greater threat @UncleMark @TheOriginalHappyGoat @cosmickid @DCGeneral @Stuffshot @ButHerEmails @twenty02

What are your thoughts @stollcpa?

Why is Pence in the vehicle? You need to replace him with Stephen Miller, Steve Bannon or Kash Patel.

 

[Bowlmania]

i have an atheist friend who literally is the happiest guy i know and leads the life of riley his life is so damn charmed. cortez will attest

I thought you were an atheist (or agnostic) as well.

All the ones I know (and I know several) seem pretty miserable.

 

[kmathum]

Trump appointed over 150 federal judges in his first term. If you don't think there hasn't been cultural, ideological and legal repercussions from that, you're more idealistic about the federal judiciary than I first thought.

It's not like I'm suggesting that Trump is just going to appoint judges who will just rescind the constitution. But his appointment of young, far-right judges has already had long term repercussions. As Sonia Sotomayor said, the judiciary is where policy is made.

Good. They need to get to work.

 

[Ohio Guy]

and so would a lefty doing the same on myriad issues. you just cannot see how partisan you are. that's the point of this thread

I fully admit I'm left of center. Maybe further left than others.

That said, I don't see this as an either/or proposition. That line of thinking - that 'both sides' are just as bad - probably has some historical context. I'm actually not a fan of any politician. That said, at this moment in time, Trump is much more of a threat to democracy than anyone with a 'D' behind their name.

 

[mcmurtry66]

I thought you were an atheist (or agnostic) as well.

All the ones I know (and I know several) seem pretty miserable.

nope i'm a catholic.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Trump is much more of a threat to democracy than anyone with a 'D' behind their name

and your view would be that of the minority amongst independents

 

[ORG]

Americans agree that the future of democracy is on the line in the 2024 election but disagree about who poses the biggest threat

In a politically polarized nation, Americans seem to agree on one issue underlying the 2024 elections — a worry over the state of democracy and how the outcome of the presidential contest will affect its future.

www.pbs.org

to those polled it looks pretty evenly split between trump and biden. absurd we can't get rid of both. that seems like something most of america actually agree on

I am more concerned about the state of the Republic.

 

[snarlcakes]

nope i'm a catholic.

You need to stop dating catholic women and find a nice Protestant on birth control.

 

[mcmurtry66]

You need to stop dating catholic women and find a nice Protestant on birth control.

what's funny is i am actually good and have zero interest in dating. like none. i've never felt that way before. i think it's a sign i must be getting old or just old

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

i would be in the group that believes neither trump nor biden are a threat to democracy. i believe both sides have arguments for their beliefs but they are largely partisan and politicized. the checks and balances have held true with just minor exceptions.

it's interesting times as so much of this "democracy challenge" talk really centers around covid and the divisions that it created and the power of our institutions as well as their failures from mandates to voting changes. as i said before we could use smart, competent, leaders at this time and it's a shame trump and biden are who we have. it's a shame trump and biden are who we had during the pandemic

Why did you ask if you already knew the answer?

And why is this thread 90+ posts long when you already gave the class the correct response in post #4?

 

[Stuffshot]

Why is Pence in the vehicle? You need to replace him with Stephen Miller, Steve Bannon or Kash Patel.

If Stephen Miller played a military officer in a WWII movie, what uniform would fit him best?

 

[Bowlmania]

and so would a lefty doing the same on myriad issues. you just cannot see how partisan you are. that's the point of this thread

No, he was responding to BS' idealized suggestion that justices and judges are these completely independent, apolitical, unbiased individuals, viewing and deciding every case through a perfectly objective lens.

 

[BradStevens]

Trump appointed over 150 federal judges in his first term. If you don't think there hasn't been cultural, ideological and legal repercussions from that, you're more idealistic about the federal judiciary than I first thought.

It's not like I'm suggesting that Trump is just going to appoint judges who will just rescind the constitution. But his appointment of young, far-right judges has already had long term repercussions. As Sonia Sotomayor said, the judiciary is where policy is made.

I've been practicing in federal courts all across the nation for over 20 years now. I've practiced in front of quite a few Trump appointees already. Just today, in fact, I'm supplementing authority to the Seventh Circuit that was written by a Trump appointee to the Sixth Circuit.

And given what I do, I will tell you that conservative judges have cost me A LOT of money over the years. So yes, I'm well aware of how many judges Trump appointed and what their idealogical bent is.

But please tell me: which "cultural, idealogical[,] and legal repercussions" are you talking about that are so Trump specific friendly? Which of these Trump appointees is going to decide cases in his personal favor, in spite of the law and Constitution? Which are going to assist Trump in ending democracy?

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

nope i'm a catholic.

AND IT ALL CLICKS INTO PLACE.

 

[Ohio Guy]

and your view would be that of the minority amongst independents

Being in the minority among independents doesn't make it wrong.

A number of Republicans are joining Democrats on the side of sanity when it comes to Trump.
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/12/13/paul-ryan-trump-populist-authoritarian-narcissist-00131675
Paul Ryan is the latest.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Why did you ask if you already knew the answer?

And why is this thread 90+ posts long when you already gave the class the correct response in post #4?

ADD

 

[Stuffshot]

Good. They need to get to work.

Why?

Conservatives/Republicans claim they are for small government and that government should leave people alone in their lives. Could it be that Conservatives/Republicans are hypocrites?

 

[mcmurtry66]

No, he was responding to BS' idealized suggestion that justices and judges are these completely independent, apolitical, unbiased individuals, viewing and deciding every case through a perfectly objective lens.

and i think his take that they are as politically biased as implied is false

 

[mcmurtry66]

I've been practicing in federal courts all across the nation for over 20 years now. I've practiced in front of quite a few Trump appointees already. Just today, in fact, I'm supplementing authority to the Seventh Circuit that was written by a Trump appointee to the Sixth Circuit.

And given what I do, I will tell you that conservative judges have cost me A LOT of money over the years. So yes, I'm well aware of how many judges Trump appointed and what their idealogical bent is.

But please tell me: which "cultural, idealogical[,] and legal repercussions" are you talking about that are so Trump specific friendly? Which of these Trump appointees is going to decide cases in his personal favor, in spite of the law and Constitution? Which are going to assist Trump in ending democracy?

@Bowlmania see above

 

[mcmurtry66]

Being in the minority among independents doesn't make it wrong.

A number of Republicans are joining Democrats on the side of sanity when it comes to Trump.
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/12/13/paul-ryan-trump-populist-authoritarian-narcissist-00131675
Paul Ryan is the latest.

so too for those who support trump.

 

[BradStevens]

One of my brothers is an atheist. So is one of my best friends. Guy is involved in a shitload of volunteer, charitable endeavors. I tell him he's more Christ-like than most of my Christian friends. He laughs and tells me he's just hedging his bets in case he's wrong.

None of my atheist friends and relatives seem very happy. I hope you're the exception.

I, like almost anyone in the West, no matter our inability to believe in a supernatural being, are Christians in most ways that matter, morally. And yes, I try to do a lot of volunteer work, both legal and otherwise.

I hope you can tell from my posting that I am not a militant anti-religion person (although I was when younger). With age and maturity, though, I see the benefit that religion provides to many who follow it.

 

[snarlcakes]

what's funny is i am actually good and have zero interest in dating. like none. i've never felt that way before. i think it's a sign i must be getting old or just old

So….sex drive does go away at some point? I can’t wait for that to happen. I’m going to talk mad sh#t to my wife when it happens. I fold so easy now because she has the goodies.

 

[Bowlmania]

I've been practicing in federal courts all across the nation for over 20 years now. I've practiced in front of quite a few Trump appointees already. Just today, in fact, I'm supplementing authority to the Seventh Circuit that was written by a Trump appointee to the Sixth Circuit.

And given what I do, I will tell you that conservative judges have cost me A LOT of money over the years. So yes, I'm well aware of how many judges Trump appointed and what their idealogical bent is.

But please tell me: which "cultural, idealogical[,] and legal repercussions" are you talking about that are so Trump specific friendly? Which of these Trump appointees is going to decide cases in his personal favor, in spite of the law and Constitution? Which are going to assist Trump in ending democracy?

Here's some weekend reading for you.

Trump’s judges will call the shots for years to come. The judicial system is broken | Shira A Scheindlin

In just one term, Trump was able to appoint 33% of US supreme court justices and 30% of US appellate judges. They’ll serve for life

www.theguardian.com

 

[BradStevens]

No, he was responding to BS' idealized suggestion that justices and judges are these completely independent, apolitical, unbiased individuals, viewing and deciding every case through a perfectly objective lens.

I'd like to talk some sense into whoever made that argument. Could you link to it?

Didn't you accuse me of "over-the-top" rhetoric just a few posts ago?

 

[mcmurtry66]

Here's some weekend reading for you.

Trump’s judges will call the shots for years to come. The judicial system is broken | Shira A Scheindlin

In just one term, Trump was able to appoint 33% of US supreme court justices and 30% of US appellate judges. They’ll serve for life

www.theguardian.com

that's not or should not be an anti trump matter or have anything to do with trump himself. that should be an anti whoever the conservative who wins is. that's just the way the luck of the draw operates. if biden won again the right could argue the same.

 

[Bowlmania]

If Stephen Miller played a military officer in a WWII movie, what uniform would fit him best?

I'm not going to touch that one.

Interestingly, I believe he's Jewish.

 

[Bowlmania]

that's not or should not be an anti trump matter or have anything to do with trump himself. that should be an anti whoever the conservative who wins is. that's just the way the luck of the draw operates. if biden won again the right could argue the same.

You're not following. You need to read the entire article.

 

[BradStevens]

Here's some weekend reading for you.

Trump’s judges will call the shots for years to come. The judicial system is broken | Shira A Scheindlin

In just one term, Trump was able to appoint 33% of US supreme court justices and 30% of US appellate judges. They’ll serve for life

www.theguardian.com

Thanks. I'll have to ask her about that when I talk to her next month.

What Scheindlin is complaining about, though, isn't 150 judges that are "loyal" to Trump. She's complaining that the judges he appointed are conservative jurists. Any conservative president would/could have done that, right? So what is so pernicious about Trump here that is a "threat to democracy?" Do you believe conservative jurists care less about democracy than liberal ones? Or are more beholden to Republican office holders than liberal judges to Dem office holders (neither really are, by the way)?

 

[Courtsensetwo]

This has been covered ad nauseum here. So much so that bringing up all the ways the economy has improved over the last three years isn't worth it. At this point, anyone making the statement you made just isn't paying serious attention and probably needs a helmet to go out in public.

I describe your excuses this way:

Bidenomics is a kick to the nuts Monday and Bidenomics apologists all taking credit for us feeling better on Tuesday.

Consumer non-durable and durable goods are still way high, housing is off the charts and intest rates are nuts. oh, and the key market (NYSE) is still down from two years ago. The economy and debt are out of control. An entire generation and a half are unable to get into a home.

The average American is worse off and getting worser heading for worserist.

Grab that helmet and drink that koolaid.

 

[Ohio Guy]

I've been practicing in federal courts all across the nation for over 20 years now. I've practiced in front of quite a few Trump appointees already. Just today, in fact, I'm supplementing authority to the Seventh Circuit that was written by a Trump appointee to the Sixth Circuit.

And given what I do, I will tell you that conservative judges have cost me A LOT of money over the years. So yes, I'm well aware of how many judges Trump appointed and what their idealogical bent is.

But please tell me: which "cultural, idealogical[,] and legal repercussions" are you talking about that are so Trump specific friendly? Which of these Trump appointees is going to decide cases in his personal favor, in spite of the law and Constitution? Which are going to assist Trump in ending democracy?

Campaign finance, the Voting Rights Act, access to healthcare and religious exemptions and freedoms have all been impacted by conservative judges in ways that don't always align with the general electorate and conservative thought leadership.

Trump's first term laid the groundwork for conservative judges to shape policy that calls for an independent lens. I'm not saying Trump will create a new monarchy in the US, but a second term where he could potentially have another unprecedented run of appointing MAGA conservative judges would be a net negative for future elections where Democratic mandates might win out.

 

[mcmurtry66]

You're not following. You need to read the entire article.

i'll read it this weekend

 

[BradStevens]

I describe your excuses this way:

Bidenomics is a kick to the nuts Monday and Bidenomics apologists all taking credit for us feeling better on Tuesday.

Consumer non-durable and durable goods are still way high, housing is off the charts and intest rates are nuts. oh, and the key market (NYSE) is still down from two years ago. The economy and debt are out of control. An entire generation and a half are unable to get into a home.

The average American is worse off and getting worser heading for worserist.

Grab that helmet and drink that koolaid.

Shorter version: Popeyes.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

cutting the fed gov sounds fantastic. as coh said we had 4 years of trump and saw what he did. i believe biden after three years is a far worse threat, as do more independents in in that article. nevertheless reasonable minds. both sides should return to issues. cutting the fed gov sounds good.

Very very few people like me (moderate independent) actually voted FOR Biden, they voted AGAINST trump. We knew JoJo would not be good and he has surpassed that expectation in the wrong direction.

I cannot vote for him again. I haven't voted for trump yet and won't start now.

One of the parties (or a third party) needs to get their shit together and fast.

 

[UncleMark]

I thought you were an atheist (or agnostic) as well.

All the ones I know (and I know several) seem pretty miserable.

That's one helluva broad brush.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Shorter version: Popeyes.

Shorter version. Crab