What do evangelicals believe these days

[hoot1]

I don't think HRC was talking exclusively about the White Evangelistic Protestants when she came up with the term deplorables,. She described deplorables in the speech as follows,

“You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump’s supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right?” Clinton said. “The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic—you name it. And unfortunately there are people like that. And he has lifted them up.”​

Completely forgotten is how she tactfully described the other half of Trump supporters (could be a higher percentage if the truth were known),

But the other basket — and I know this because I see friends from all over America here — I see friends from Florida and Georgia and South Carolina and Texas — as well as, you know, New York and California — but that other basket of people are people who feel that the government has let them down, the economy has let them down, nobody cares about them, nobody worries about what happens to their lives and their futures, and they’re just desperate for change. It doesn’t really even matter where it comes from. They don’t buy everything he says, but he seems to hold out some hope that their lives will be different. They won’t wake up and see their jobs disappear, lose a kid to heroine, feel like they’re in a dead-end. Those are people we have to understand and empathize with as well.​

In my view the WEP fit both in the deplorables basket to some degree with a good many being in the other basket..

 

[Marvin the Martian]

I don't think HRC was talking exclusively about the White Evangelistic Protestants when she came up with the term deplorables,. She described deplorables in the speech as follows,

“You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump’s supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right?” Clinton said. “The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic—you name it. And unfortunately there are people like that. And he has lifted them up.”​

Completely forgotten is how she tactfully described the other half of Trump supporters (could be a higher percentage if the truth were known),

But the other basket — and I know this because I see friends from all over America here — I see friends from Florida and Georgia and South Carolina and Texas — as well as, you know, New York and California — but that other basket of people are people who feel that the government has let them down, the economy has let them down, nobody cares about them, nobody worries about what happens to their lives and their futures, and they’re just desperate for change. It doesn’t really even matter where it comes from. They don’t buy everything he says, but he seems to hold out some hope that their lives will be different. They won’t wake up and see their jobs disappear, lose a kid to heroine, feel like they’re in a dead-end. Those are people we have to understand and empathize with as well.​

In my view the WEP fit both in the deplorables basket to some degree with a good many being in the other basket..

I wonder if we can consider those Evropa Identity people from the farmer's market thread as "deplorable"? Was the guy who ran over the woman at the Unite the Right rally "deplorable"?

The GOP was able to sell the comment as directed against every rural person.

 

[VanPastorMan]

I think conservative Christians perceive that liberals do not like conservative CHRISTIANS. Rather the issue is with CONSERVATIVE Christian.

Marvin, I have had both conservative and liberal believers in my congregation. I've loved them all and they have loved me. In the church we get along better than people think.

 

[ButHerEmails]

I fear you missed my point. My problem with painting with too broad a brush is that when you do so, you aren't turning off a "small fraction" who "won't ever vote for a Democrat." You are turning off the quarter of them who are already f*cking Democrats.

Forgive me the bold and italicized type. I'm not angry with you. Just exhausted with my inability to get this extremely simple point across.

While you’re busy trying to figure out what size brush to paint with, the WEPs are busy running the country, flaunting the law, pissing on the constitution, and putting federal judges on the bench. I don’t assume to know exactly what it is you’re doing, but I know you’re doing it wrong.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

We hate illegals coming to this country uninvited because they are law breakers.

What book, chapter, and verse was this based on?

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

Marvin, I have had both conservative and liberal believers in my congregation. I've loved them all and they have loved me. In the church we get along better than people think.

While I believe the libs love you, they are probably hating your sin of hypocrisy.

Each one of your posts make me say a prayer of thanksgiving for my church and pastor, who espouse love, inclusion, and we pray weekly for those who would promote a philosophy that, well, to be honest, sounds a heck of a lot like the one you "preach" on here, and I'm sure from your pulpit.

 

[VanPastorMan]

Then the people that did not remain loyal to Britain during the revolution of 1776 were wrong and out of favour with God? And according to this scripture it's impossible that the United States was founded by practicing Christians as a Christian nation.

There is no doubt that the principals which are founders employed are Judeo/Christian in nature. Could they have gone about it differently? That is a worthy argument. If you look at what our founders created, even if it was misguided turned out pretty well. We've had a great life here in the U.S.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Have them go to a port of entry. Have them follow the Law. God is not for lawlessness. It's not why He instituted government. Government is there to keep society civil. It is there to punish the evil doer.

A refugee is an evildoer?

 

[iu_a_att]

Refugees should go to a port of entry. Are they doing this? Speaking of mischaracterization which you just did by falsely accusing me.
Proverbs 6:12-15 ESV /
A worthless person, a wicked man, goes about with crooked speech, winks with his eyes, signals with his feet, points with his finger, with perverted heart devises evil, continually sowing discord; therefore calamity will come upon him suddenly; in a moment he will be broken beyond healing.

Do you see anyone like this on our national stage? Do you hear anyone continually sowing discord, anyone with a perverted heart devising evil, anyone with crooked speech? How does the devil so easily disguise himself so that those who have done a deal with him can't see the demon standing plainly before them? I expect the bible and theology has much to say about these questions for true believers. We all might learn from such stories.

 

[Morrison]

I’ve noticed over the years that conservative Christians predominantly quote God and the Old Testament, while more liberal Christians tend to quote Jesus and the New Testament gospels. I’ve always been under the belief that God sent his son Jesus to offer salvation to a hopeless people, do away with the old law and establish a new covenant with us heathens.

 

[rocket_knight]

I’ve noticed over the years that conservative Christians predominantly quote God and the Old Testament, while more liberal Christians tend to quote Jesus and the New Testament gospels. I’ve always been under the belief that God sent his son Jesus to offer salvation to a hopeless people, do away with the old law and establish a new covenant with us heathens.

That's actually a very good point. It reminds me of when the Gideon's were last on campus passing out those little green New Testaments. The gentleman working on the west side of Fee lane offered me "a copy of the new testament" the gentleman on the east side offered me "a copy of the bible". I was tempted to stop and chat about the choice of words.

 

[BCCHoosier]

All of that is a mischaracterization of what conservative minded evangelicals believe. It's right out of the Schiff playbook of rewording the transcript to say what you think someone believes yet do not have any valid reason to do so. How do we embrace violence? To win at war is what you have to do if you are waging it. Obama sent in many drones and killed many targets including women and children. Yet he is a peaceful President? I'm not even saying that those drone strikes were illegitimate. My point is the left can't have it both ways. No conservatives hate immigrants. We hate illegals coming to this country uninvited because they are law breakers. What makes us think they will live by our laws if they break them coming here? We don't hate them. We hate their actions because we believe in the rule of law. We evangelical conservative Christians do not worship Donald Trump. We worship God, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. We support this President because what he is doing is good for the country. There is a reason why our economy is going great guns. There is a reason why we are in talks with North Korea. There is a reason why we regained the #1 status as the world's greatest economy. It's because of the conservative principles of Donald Trump.

Name the conservative principles of Donald Trump. Tax cuts that are not paying for themselves, run away deficits, 3 trillion added to national debt, and bullying the Fed for more rate cuts in a supposed strong economy.

I doubt you understand economic or financial matters, but wait until the crap hits the fan and there is nothing left to goose the economy. I really think the king of debt wants low rates to help his personal situation.

 

[Morrison]

That's actually a very good point. It reminds me of when the Gideon's were last on campus passing out those little green New Testaments. The gentleman working on the west side of Fee lane offered me "a copy of the new testament" the gentleman on the east side offered me "a copy of the bible". I was tempted to stop and chat about the choice of words.

Since we’re discussing this topic on a mostly political forum, I suppose the lesson may be that God is a Republican and Jesus a Democrat. Jesus did say something along the lines of, “No man can come unto the Father but by me”. I think God probably listens to his son’s plea for love and mercy on our behalf, otherwise, the sacrifice and suffering Jesus paid was all for naught.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

All of that is a mischaracterization of what conservative minded evangelicals believe. It's right out of the Schiff playbook of rewording the transcript to say what you think someone believes yet do not have any valid reason to do so. How do we embrace violence? To win at war is what you have to do if you are waging it. Obama sent in many drones and killed many targets including women and children. Yet he is a peaceful President? I'm not even saying that those drone strikes were illegitimate. My point is the left can't have it both ways. No conservatives hate immigrants. We hate illegals coming to this country uninvited because they are law breakers. What makes us think they will live by our laws if they break them coming here? We don't hate them. We hate their actions because we believe in the rule of law. We evangelical conservative Christians do not worship Donald Trump. We worship God, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. We support this President because what he is doing is good for the country. There is a reason why our economy is going great guns. There is a reason why we are in talks with North Korea. There is a reason why we regained the #1 status as the world's greatest economy. It's because of the conservative principles of Donald Trump.

Have you ever looked at the number of times the US has been involved in Latin America? Take a look.

Smedley Butler was a TWO time Congressional Medal of Honor winner, there are not many of those. He served often in Latin America, here is one of his many quotes on US involvement:

I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.
​

And your idea of compassion toward the people we have helped impoverish is "too bad, back of the line"? And somehow you think Jesus believes "back of the line" is how compassion should be dealt with? When the Pharisees suggested that healing on the Sabbath violated the law, what was Jesus' reply? I believe he took the stance that healing was more important than the law, did he not?

Edit to remove partial reply from earlier that had seemed to disappear.

 

[toastedbread]

Not going to try to change your mind because that is impossible. But I will say this: Yes, we do owe it to people who are in many cases literally running for their lives to offer them sanctuary. To have compassion. "Go to a point of entry?" In many cases they're doing their very best to just stay alive and have spent all their money getting to where they ended up. They aren't worried about legal points of entry; they're worried about not becoming dead. "Want to become Americans?" Again, not foremost on their minds. They have more pressing concerns then their legal status. "Respect their new country?" They respect being alive more than the laws of the country they live in. I would too under their circumstances.

You have no idea what it's like for these people. You just sit up there in your ivory pulpit and say "let them eat cake." Your stance on this issue is hardhearted, cold and hypocritical particularly coming from a man of the cloth. Again, not going to try to convince you otherwise because that is impossible. But I will call you out for what you are.

I strongly support the rights of bonafide asylum seekers. I disagree with asylum shopping, and would change the laws as neccessary to discourage this behavior.

 

[IUPaterade724]

Let me be clear, I have no problem with any religion. What I do have a problem with is when it flies in the face of the Constitution where religious groups begin to manipulate the system to do their bidding.

 

[iu_a_att]

Let me be clear, I have no problem with any religion. What I do have a problem with is when it flies in the face of the Constitution where religious groups begin to manipulate the system to do their bidding.

I don't think the constitution matters one whit to Van...I don't think it matters to Pompeo, Barr, Pence and Trump either. On that point they are all in alignment.

 

[IUPaterade724]

"...they’re seized by epilepsy. It spreads
from eye to eye, from laugh to laugh until,
incited by the ease of going mad,
they go. How easy evil is! Dark voices sing,
You can be evil or you can be good,
but good is dull, my darling, good is dull.
And we’re convinced: How lovely evil is!
How lovely hell must be! Give us Barabbas!

Lord Pilate clears his throat and tries again:
I find no fault in this just man.
It’s more than we can bear. In gothic script
our answer floats above our upturned eyes.
O crucify, we sing. O crucify him!"

Beautiful and Poignant

 

[iu_a_att]

He conveniently gets to pick and chose which parts to follow and bastardizes the parts which tailor his sometimes archaic beliefs. Not that he has any of his own, the man is a walking talking point

I really like your phrase "walking talking point"! That said, I am really reluctant to pick on Van. In Van many of us (including me) clearly see someone who "conveniently gets to pick which parts to follow and bastardizes" the rest. Well my hunch is that Van is a better mirror unto ourselves than we realize.

The thing about Van is that he sits just right next to deep wisdom. Surely this deep wisdom must whisper to him. I am not Christian and even I can hear the faint murmur of it. We are all of us way too much walking talking points. Ecce homo.

 

[iu_a_att]

"...they’re seized by epilepsy. It spreads
from eye to eye, from laugh to laugh until,
incited by the ease of going mad,
they go. How easy evil is! Dark voices sing,
You can be evil or you can be good,
but good is dull, my darling, good is dull.
And we’re convinced: How lovely evil is!
How lovely hell must be! Give us Barabbas!

Lord Pilate clears his throat and tries again:
I find no fault in this just man.
It’s more than we can bear. In gothic script
our answer floats above our upturned eyes.
O crucify, we sing. O crucify him!"

Beautiful and Poignant

Yeah, I found that poem nearly crushing. The deep wisdom in the Christian tradition is so, so close in those paintings and in the poetry.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

The stock market was doing just fine and increasing yearly under Obama after the disaster he inherited. The tax break to the rich was suppose to increase growth 6% and that has proven to be a lie considering it has slowed at less than two. Trump has done nothing for the stock market or the United States. In actuality he had hurt long term interests that another Democrat will have to fix for 8 years. Your anti science agenda is medievil. He is a blip in history that will be forgotten. The U.S. and its protectors will continue making the greatest country on earth in fields that matter. The democrats dont rely on paydays from old world oil and the middle east. The fact that you believe Trump is so important shows the fear and paranoia you preach and that your flock gobble up.

I can't stand the man that is our President, but most of this post is false. The economy, by all traditional measures is doing very well. The stock market is doing very well. My portfolio is doing very well. Anyone that knows me here would know that I credit the President very little for the currently good economy and I don't credit this one more or less than I did (or blame) our previous Presidents for the status of the economy during their administrations.

 

[sglowrider]

The Rev. Johnnie Moore, president of the Congress of Christian Leaders, told Fox News:

It was abundantly clear, he's totally unfazed by this. Everybody felt this way. This isn't actually about Donald Trump. It's about the agenda that he's put forward, the success he's had in advancing the agenda.

The reverend went on to say:

Evangelical leaders see this, not as impeaching Donald Trump, but they're trying to impeach me and my values. Donald Trump is pretty good at fighting alone but he isn't going to have to on this one.

https://www.indy100.com/article/donald-trump-prayer-faith-leaders-meme-twitter-9181171

Spoiler: Mocker

 

[IUPaterade724]

[

I can't stand the man that is our President, but most of this post is false. The economy, by all traditional measures is doing very well. The stock market is doing very well. My portfolio is doing very well. Anyone that knows me here would know that I credit the President very little for the currently good economy and I don't credit this one more or less than I did (or blame) our previous Presidents for the status of the economy during their administrations.

The stock market IS doing very well and if you diversified your portfolio in 2009 it would be immensely better. Do I have to support this with a graph?

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

[


The stock market IS doing very well and if you diversified your portfolio in 2009 it would be immensely better. Do I have to support this with a graph?

View embedded media

I have no idea what point you’re trying to make. I’ve been in the market since the early 90s.

 

[IUPaterade724]

I have no idea what point you’re trying to make. I’ve been in the market since the early 90s.

My point is the stock market consistently became stronger under Obama and Trump is acting like he should get all the credit. Yes, he has pushed it to new heights but was it not already on that path? Then why is the job growth much lower and stalling?

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/10/why-donald-trumps-economic-dream-crumbled/601153/

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

To all of us, Van included I say ecce homo.

https://artandtheology.org/2016/03/23/ecce-homo-by-andrew-hudgins/

Christ bends, protects his groin. Thorns gouge
his forehead, and his legs
are stippled with dried blood. The part of us
that’s Pilate says, Behold the man.
We glare at that bound, lashed,
and bloody part of us that’s Christ. We laugh, we howl,
we shout. Give us Barabbas,
not knowing who Barabbas is, not caring.
A thief? We’ll take him anyway. A drunk?
A murderer? Who cares? It’s better him
Than this pale ravaged thing, this god. Bosch knows.
His humans waver, laugh, then change to demons
as if they’re seized by epilepsy. It spreads
from eye to eye, from laugh to laugh until,
incited by the ease of going mad,
they go. How easy evil is! Dark voices sing,
You can be evil or you can be good,
but good is dull, my darling, good is dull.
And we’re convinced: How lovely evil is!
How lovely hell must be! Give us Barabbas!

Lord Pilate clears his throat and tries again:
I find no fault in this just man.
It’s more than we can bear. In gothic script
our answer floats above our upturned eyes.
O crucify, we sing. O crucify him!

This poem was originally published in The Never-Ending (Boston: Houghton Mifflin, 1991) and is reprinted here with the permission of the poet. ​

That's a very good poem. Never read that before. Thanks for the offering.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Then why is the job growth much lower and stalling?

Maybe because he's trying to keep all the new potential employees out of the country.

 

[IUCrazy2]

Where does the Bible say they must go to an official port of entry? It does not. It says we must care for refugees and aliens. It is only man's law that adds these limitations you think are so important.

Care for them does not equate to granting citizenship or allowing them some form of legal status right below that. There were funds blocked by the Democrats that would have made life easier for those in the government's care until their status could be figured out. Care was not the issue, they are merely political pawns in the Democrats one aim, power. The ability to impose their will on everyone else. Control your speech, control what you eat, control what is taught to your children, control how you receive healthcare, control your religious beliefs, etc. The Democrats see a bunch of poor people who are likely to vote for even more "nanny state" as a means to an end. More power to all those rich, white liberals. More children to parent and a permanent majority so they can continue to shape the world to their warped view.

So care for those who need it when they arrive on our shores...care for the true refugee (and economic migrants are not refugees) but after that period of care has concluded, the government has every right to decide who it grants legal status to.

But don't pee down my back and tell me it is raining by saying this is some humanitarian argument from Democrats. Illegally flooding the country with people who are likely to vote for a more socialist leaning government is not humanitarian, it is a power play.

Politics is about power. I vote for the power to keep those considered "Progressives" as far a flipping way from the levers of power as possible. Not because I want to impose my views on them, but because I am sick and tired of having theirs imposed on me.

 

[RBB89]

Care for them does not equate to granting citizenship or allowing them some form of legal status right below that. There were funds blocked by the Democrats that would have made life easier for those in the government's care until their status could be figured out. Care was not the issue, they are merely political pawns in the Democrats one aim, power. The ability to impose their will on everyone else. Control your speech, control what you eat, control what is taught to your children, control how you receive healthcare, control your religious beliefs, etc. The Democrats see a bunch of poor people who are likely to vote for even more "nanny state" as a means to an end. More power to all those rich, white liberals. More children to parent and a permanent majority so they can continue to shape the world to their warped view.

So care for those who need it when they arrive on our shores...care for the true refugee (and economic migrants are not refugees) but after that period of care has concluded, the government has every right to decide who it grants legal status to.

But don't pee down my back and tell me it is raining by saying this is some humanitarian argument from Democrats. Illegally flooding the country with people who are likely to vote for a more socialist leaning government is not humanitarian, it is a power play.

Politics is about power. I vote for the power to keep those considered "Progressives" as far a flipping way from the levers of power as possible. Not because I want to impose my views on them, but because I am sick and tired of having theirs imposed on me.

Holy crap.

 

[iu_a_att]

Illegally flooding the country with people who are likely to vote for a more socialist leaning government is not humanitarian, it is a power play.

Politics is about power. I vote for the power to keep those considered "Progressives" as far a flipping way from the levers of power as possible. Not because I want to impose my views on them, but because I am sick and tired of having theirs imposed on me.

Your post clarifies the difference between right wingers like yourself and the "progressives".
The prime imperative for right wingers, as you say, is to keep "progressives" away from the levers of power. Unfortunately, right wingers are actually a minority so the only way to keep progressives from power is to deny full political rights to the majority. This is precisely what the right wingers have done throughout history up to today.

In contrast, the progressive agenda doesn't require disenfranchising anyone, rather it is facilitated by full political rights for all.

So goes the ongoing story of America. The fight between those who would grant citizenship only to the "right" people and those who would grant citizenship to everyone is the big fight. Wars have been and will continue to be fought over this clash of principles.

It goes like this. Progressive forces win a military victory over the rightists. They establish "universal" political rights. Then those rights are gradually restricted via political means by powerful factions. At some point so few people have rights that war breaks out and ultimately the "right" loses and rights are restored...

Heraclitus said "the only constant in life is change".

 

[hoot1]

Care for them does not equate to granting citizenship or allowing them some form of legal status right below that. There were funds blocked by the Democrats that would have made life easier for those in the government's care until their status could be figured out. Care was not the issue, they are merely political pawns in the Democrats one aim, power. The ability to impose their will on everyone else. Control your speech, control what you eat, control what is taught to your children, control how you receive healthcare, control your religious beliefs, etc. The Democrats see a bunch of poor people who are likely to vote for even more "nanny state" as a means to an end. More power to all those rich, white liberals. More children to parent and a permanent majority so they can continue to shape the world to their warped view.

So care for those who need it when they arrive on our shores...care for the true refugee (and economic migrants are not refugees) but after that period of care has concluded, the government has every right to decide who it grants legal status to.

But don't pee down my back and tell me it is raining by saying this is some humanitarian argument from Democrats. Illegally flooding the country with people who are likely to vote for a more socialist leaning government is not humanitarian, it is a power play.

Politics is about power. I vote for the power to keep those considered "Progressives" as far a flipping way from the levers of power as possible. Not because I want to impose my views on them, but because I am sick and tired of having theirs imposed on me.

Craze, how can you complain about power and control when your party controls your state legislature along with the Supreme Court and two branches of the federal government?

 

[UncleMark]

Craze, how can you complain about power and control when your party controls your state legislature along with the Supreme Court and two branches of the federal government?

Do nothing Democrats won't pay for the Wall.

 

[Digressions]

More power to all those rich, white liberals.

Thank God we have you and the Republican party protecting us from all those rich white liberals. Those tax cuts are really putting them in their place.

 

[Cortez88]

Care for them does not equate to granting citizenship or allowing them some form of legal status right below that. There were funds blocked by the Democrats that would have made life easier for those in the government's care until their status could be figured out. Care was not the issue, they are merely political pawns in the Democrats one aim, power. The ability to impose their will on everyone else. Control your speech, control what you eat, control what is taught to your children, control how you receive healthcare, control your religious beliefs, etc. The Democrats see a bunch of poor people who are likely to vote for even more "nanny state" as a means to an end. More power to all those rich, white liberals. More children to parent and a permanent majority so they can continue to shape the world to their warped view.

So care for those who need it when they arrive on our shores...care for the true refugee (and economic migrants are not refugees) but after that period of care has concluded, the government has every right to decide who it grants legal status to.

But don't pee down my back and tell me it is raining by saying this is some humanitarian argument from Democrats. Illegally flooding the country with people who are likely to vote for a more socialist leaning government is not humanitarian, it is a power play.

Politics is about power. I vote for the power to keep those considered "Progressives" as far a flipping way from the levers of power as possible. Not because I want to impose my views on them, but because I am sick and tired of having theirs imposed on me.

I know your stance on abortion. With that, you do realize that it’s only “progressive” programs, policies and ideals that care one iota for children post utero.

 

[zeke4ahs]

The evangelical wing is harming Christianity and I have a feeling will be turning young people off organized religion for decades. They can see it for the sham that it is. It makes me really sad that this is what they are growing up thinking being a Christian is about.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

Your post clarifies the difference between right wingers like yourself and the "progressives".
The prime imperative for right wingers, as you say, is to keep "progressives" away from the levers of power. Unfortunately, right wingers are actually a minority so the only way to keep progressives from power is to deny full political rights to the majority. This is precisely what the right wingers have done throughout history up to today.

In contrast, the progressive agenda doesn't require disenfranchising anyone, rather it is facilitated by full political rights for all.

So goes the ongoing story of America. The fight between those who would grant citizenship only to the "right" people and those who would grant citizenship to everyone is the big fight. Wars have been and will continue to be fought over this clash of principles.

It goes like this. Progressive forces win a military victory over the rightists. They establish "universal" political rights. Then those rights are gradually restricted via political means by powerful factions. At some point so few people have rights that war breaks out and ultimately the "right" loses and rights are restored...

Heraclitus said "the only constant in life is change".

Left wingers (progressives) aren't the majority either. The people between those two ends of the political spectrum are the majority.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

My point is the stock market consistently became stronger under Obama and Trump is acting like he should get all the credit. Yes, he has pushed it to new heights but was it not already on that path? Then why is the job growth much lower and stalling?

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/10/why-donald-trumps-economic-dream-crumbled/601153/

I don't credit President Obama or President Trump with the state of the economy. Also, job growth is not stalling, it's more accurately at a steady state of growth. We're close to what is traditionally called "full employment" so job growth has naturally reached a steady state at a rate lower than when there are many more unemployed people available in the labor pool.

 

[hoot1]

But it isn't balance when an evangelical moderator deletes all opposing messages just to protect a religious charlatan. VPM does not represent the mainstream of protestants.

And, besides, there are plenty of indications that VPM is not a "pastor" or "minister" of any kind. He just doesn't know scripture well enough.

SS, so who or what represents "mainstream protestants" on this board or anywhere else?

Also I don't dismiss the notion that
Van's combination of politics and religion exists in a good many churches across the nation.

In other words, let Van preach at the Cooler as his pitch informs us about what some folks are thinking.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

The stuff that was deleted included quite authentic attempts to engage with Van...not on the basis of insults but on the basis inquiry about religious ideas.

VPM's insulting tirade about liberals was deleted. My guess is the mods also deleted all replies to it.

 

[rocket_knight]

I'm offended by your willingness to spread lies and propaganda for this president and by your lack of anything resembling intellect.

Faith is by definition belief in the indefensible. Non professional Christians usually limit this to the virgin birth, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Professionals are able to perform at a much higher level.