Well, what'dya know.... the Government admits to mishandling Trump documents
- Thread starter DANC
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I meant there appear to be posters who post under more than one handle.
You don’t unless these shitheads are removed from office in November. If they are not this country is over……
And Potatohead was never President back then and had no right to have any docs in his possession
Good. Keeps all the stoopid in one place.
So all the same docs are there but they are just not in the same order as found in the boxes at the time taken?"In their filing, prosecutors acknowledged the government had previously — and incorrectly — told U.S. District Judge Aileen Cannon that the boxes remained “in their original, intact form as seized,” other than a decision to replace classified documents with placeholder sheets.
That depiction, the prosecutors conceded, is “inconsistent” with their current understanding that some of the documents are not now in the same order as they appear in digital scans of the records that were made in the fall of 2022 after Cannon ordered an unusual process to review whether the FBI may have seized legally privileged records.
“There are some boxes where the order of items within that box is not the same as in the associated scans,” prosecutors wrote, adding in a footnote: “The Government acknowledges that this is inconsistent with what Government counsel previously understood and represented to the Court.”
"Smith’s lawyers say the apparent jumble took place despite various precautions, including having an FBI agent present while an outside vendor scanned the documents so that Trump’s attorneys could see what was seized. The 11th Circuit Court of Appeals ultimately halted the review Cannon ordered."
In other words, somebody has ****ed with the documents, but gee..... they have no idea how or why. And why did the Appeals Court halt the review.
Looking more and more like Hurricane Crossfire redux.
This reeks of Crossfire Hurricane: John Ratcliffe | Fox News Video
Former DNI John Ratcliffe joins ‘Sunday Morning Futures’ to give his legal analysis of the ‘coordinated’ NY v. Trump case, the classified documents case and Israel-Hamas negotiations.www.foxnews.com
If Smith admits to the judge, the FBI tampered with evidence and he misrepresented to the judge, what’s the remedy?
Seems like the system ultimately worked. True malfeasance is very hard to get away with because the federal workforce is pretty representative of the public. Trump's first administration is a case in point.
Exactly. Nothing to see here. Move along.
What book was that DANC? I believe his most successful book is the one he wrote about dealing with Beau's death. So exactly how did that involve info in the classified documents?
And as I understand it, Joe wasn't "caught" with anything. His representatives conducted a search, found a few documents and notified the DOJ that they had them.Same as Pence. The FBI/DOJ didn't raid either Biden or Pence because both of them turned documents in and did not commit obstruction...
Neither Jennifer Little or Evan Cochran are going to take a bullet for Trump...How do you think Smith knows about the MAL meeting that took place right after TRump was subpoenaed over the documents?
"Attorney Jennifer Little, who is representing Trump in his election interference case in Fulton County, Georgia, told Smith's team of investigators earlier this year that the former president "absolutely" understood the warning she gave him about the need to comply with federal prosecutors in the classified documents case,"
Sources told ABC that Little's warning occurred during a key meeting at Mar-a-Lago just days after Trump was subpoenaed in May 2022 over his handling of classified records."
Shortly after that meeting Trump engaged in obstruction and ensnared his co-defendants in the criminal conspiracy...
Who shipped boxes to MAL that Trump never requested or wanted? Seems to me that Trump could have "shipped" these "unrequested, unwanted boxes" back to NARA at some point between summer of 2021 when NARA first informed Trump that the documents were missing and Aug 2022 when the FBI/DOJ had to physically retrieve these "unrequested" documents from MAL.
A year and a half to ship back "unwanted" boxes? What do you (Trump) say caused the delay?
I would tend to agree except if they lied about it in such a way as to make it look worse than it was, that in itself is prosecutorial misconduct is it not?
"Who the hell would have thought an outsider as popular as Trump gets elected and the gang of thieves in DC is so corrupt that they make absolute fools of themselves and completely turn everything upside down trying to stop him."
First off when was Trump "popular" with anyone aside from his cult?
Morning Consult tracked Trump's "popularity" state by state from his election until Feb 2020 his final year in office. In the 3 states of PA,MI and WI (which provided his 2016 electoal college win) he started out more popular than unpopular in Feb 20117. You can use the interactive graph in the link below to track his popularity by each individual state.
In MI in Feb 2017 Trump was up 8 pts 48-40. However within 2 months by April 2017 his popularity and unpopularity were tied, and his unpopularity numbers continued to rise. By the time of the 2018 midterms, he was underwater by 9 pts43-52. A net shift of 17 points...
In PA the numbers in Feb 2017 were 49-39. However his numbers were tied by June, and then by Nov 2018 the numbers were 46-51, another double digit reversal.
In WI he started out 47-41, but again by April they were tied and his unpopularity numbers kept rising. By Nov 2018 it was a 10 point gap 43-53...
Tracking Trump
morningconsult.com
All 3 of those states that had voted for Trump in 2016 elected Dems to every statewide office in the 2018 midterms. On average in those 3 "purple" states Trump's popularity had shifted by about 16 points...
So again, when was Trump popular anywhere that didn't vote for him in 2016? How many state-wide elections in non-Red states has MAGA won since 2016? I can think of 2, Gov in NV and Senator in WI where Johnson was re-elected. That is it...
Doesn't sound very "popular" to me...
Read the Politico article DANC originally posted. They fvcked up and admitted as much. Don't attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.
They lied about the documents. They admit they lied about the documents.
“In their filing, prosecutors acknowledged the government had previously — and incorrectly — told U.S. District Judge Aileen Cannon that the boxes remained “in their original, intact form as seized,” other than a decision to replace classified documents with placeholder sheets.
That depiction, the prosecutors conceded, is “inconsistent” with their current understanding that some of the documents are not now in the same order as they appear in digital scans of the records that were made in the fall of 2022 after Cannon ordered an unusual process to review whether the FBI may have seized legally privileged records.
“There are some boxes where the order of items within that box is not the same as in the associated scans,” prosecutors wrote, adding in a footnote: “The Government acknowledges that this is inconsistent with what Government counsel previously understood and represented to the Court.””
Of course THEY’RE going to say it makes no difference.
But what about the governments conduct in recent years makes you think they deserve the benefit of the doubt about anything?
They don’t. They have to know they don’t. Not with what we now know about all the bullshit they pulled in their attempts to take Trump down.
In the case of the current iteration of the federal government, you have it bass ackward.
Don’t attribute to stupidity what you can attribute to malice.
And it’s their own damned fault.
Counter question-if it made no difference, why did they lie about it?
They lied about it. They admit they lied about it.
It doesn’t matter if it made a difference or not. Or even if they BELIEVED it would make a difference.
This is a criminal trial. The government doesn’t have the right to lie about anything. That’s not how trials, or our legal system works.
If you want to convict someone of a crime, you can’t lie about what they did.
The mixed up document order has no bearing on the crimes that were charged. None of the evidence has been changed or altered.
This is a nothingburger. You seem to be convinced it's some heinous miscarriage of justice. They may have been sloppy, but they aren't doing anything nefarious. I'm surprised at your insistence that it just has to be otherwise. You're better than that.
This may well be a nothingburger but the bolded is absolutely NOT what I’m doing. And YOU are better than claiminig it is.
Your insistence that it be discounted as a simple mistake is extending more credit to the government than what the government deserves. Especially when we’re talking about evidence in a criminal trial.
And if we’d be talking about anyone other than Donald Trump you’d admit that.
No, I don’t think so. The court might sanction them ($). Or the judge might say “hey, I don’t trust your representations much anymore” and make them double check reps to her.
But if there is no harm, what’s the big deal? Unless there’s something important about the order of the doc as kept by Trump? Something like “hey in the originals the last two pages of this top top top secret doc were ripped off and stuffed in the back of another box and had fake tanning lotion all over them so we can prove Trump took them out and read them?”
If they were going to make that type of argument, they just screwed themselves.
Wait a minute. If the prosecution in ANY case misrepresents evidence against the accused, and doesn’t have a good reason for doing so, that in ITSELF creates reasonable doubt, does it not?
Obligatory IANAL but it seems that way to me.
Doesn't this seem to be the status quo as of late. It's to the point the whole country is like wtf.
No hoops. Depends on what was misrepresented. How material to elements etc. boring lawyer shit. But far from auto thing
Reasonable doubt in what? The order of the documents in the boxes in Trump's house? Why does it matter to the legal case against him? It might, but I haven't heard an argument for why it would.
I am not sure if there are many Proud Boys in Ft. Pierce maybe Stuart or Vero.
VanPastorMan
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Chi-Nah and Ukraine has made Biden a lot of money. If they gave him and his family money then could a claim be made that this affects his policies towards those countries?W-w-w-wait a minute Dan. 10% for the big guy you can't forget about that.
I think it raises a question about chain of custody, no? The government claimed the records they have match the records at MAL. But they've obviously been moved or rearranged or whatever.
And an FBI agent was there, supposedly ensuring nothing was moved or changed. That's concerning, imo, and who knows WHY they were moved? Did someone copy that information and then put it back in the wrong order?
But bottom line is, the government lied - or was wrong - when they claimed the documents they had were identical to the ones at MAL.
You'd know better than me how it might affect the case legally, but it looks fishy to a layman.
This could be presented to the jury as some hinky shit (legal term). That could influence a jury, which I think is what Hoops is saying.
One might write it off as a simple mistake by the FBI if one didn't know the history of Crossfire Hurricane and the fact that the FBI lied to get FISA warrants.
Much like Michael Cohen, once you've been found to have lied, it's difficult to be believed the next time something questionable comes up.
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They are there, but have obviously been handled - who knows if the content of the documents have been altered?
Well, there are copies of everything I suppose? Could compare them all with copies the govt has?
I guess the main way you could argue this is not that they took dox out, but put more dox in of a highly sensitive nature that weren’t there at MAL, to make Trump look worse?
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