Welfare for refugees`

[hoot1]

There is a story about the refugee situation which doesn't appear in this thread. A story I became aware of thanks to a Indianapolis community forum with which I participate.

The story revolves around a private organization Exodus Refugee Immigration Inc. and other charities such as Catholic Charities, and the refugees which these organizations help just here in Indianapolis.

These refugees come from countries such as Burma, Iraq, Bhutan, Eritrea, the Congo, Somalia and Iran - often arriving with only what they can carry, ready to start new lives of freedom in Indianapolis.

Exodus staff members greet newly arriving refugees at the airport and bring them to their new homes, typically apartments furnished with donated couches, beds and chairs. Some of the funds to help these refugees are derived from government sources, but most the money is from private charities including volunteer help.

One of the most compelling group of refugees are the 7,000-8,000 Chin refugees who have made their home in Indianapolis.

The Chin people are an ethnic minority in Burma and for years they've been ruthlessly targeted by the Burmese military. Ask any Chin refugee in Indianapolis about what they faced before they fled their country, and you'll likely hear of forced labor, arbitrary arrest, rape, torture, execution. The list goes on and on, an alphabet of atrocities.

Refugees such as the Chins aren't looking for handouts, or even freedom, but are escaping from fear. Many talk about how they once had wonderful lives in the country of their origin and wished they could turn the clock back to those good times. Unfortunately those good times are gone forever except for a very few who have fond hopes of returning if conditions ever return to normal.

Picturing the refugees as folks looking for a free lunch and being brought here to vote for a particular political party glosses over the fact they are human beings just like us. Human beings looking for a normal life without fear and complete hopelessness.

 

[zeke4ahs]

With Democrats in charge the refugee program will soon include many already here in this country. BHO has done so well at managing the demise of the nation. More debt,more unemployed and more minorities than ever out of the work force yet they still vote Democrat. Why? Free hand outs. Democrats buy votes with taxpayer dollars all in the name of compassion. And minorities suffer more than any other group.

Better off? Have you asked the 23 million workers looking or so discouraged that they quit looking for work? Have you asked those that under BHO's failing health care mandate are now part time instead of full time? The 19 trillion debt bother you? The minority community that has somewhere around 20% unemployment bother you? I guess not since you are better off everyone must be. Get your head out of that dark space and do some research. There are over 90 million people not working right now. Some were forced into retirement and some have returned to school. Some may be disabled. But surely you can see that the unemployment rate is not close to 5%.

Well of course you wouldn't pay attention to pesky numbers and facts. Do you believe in the science of climate change? There are figures that measure unemployment and they have dropped dramatically since Obama was president. That's pretty hard to deny. The stock market has more than doubled. Again that's a fact. The deficient has dropped and millions of people that have never had insurance are now covered. There are certainly some negatives too, particularly for the lower and middle class. But after doing some research, as you suggest, it's hard to deny that things are much better than they were when Obama took office.

 

[Bruce1]

Just a question, do the jobs they are looking for require any special skills and are they willing to train someone who is eager to work but maybe does not have that particular skill set? I had to do the job hunt thing back in 2012 and again (under some different circumstances) in 2014. I found that many employers wanted you to be able to come in with exactly experience in exactly what the job was posted for. And by exactly, I mean that I had skills working in the same field (insurance) doing the same job (claims) but for instance if I had worked personal lines and they were doing commercial, they would barely give you a second look. Nevermind over a decade of experience doing basically the same job, I had not worked specifically in their line so they were not interested in even the miniscule amount of training it would have taken to get someone like me up and running.

Most of the businesses in our country that complain about a lack of workers to do the specific job they want are also those businesses who are completely unwilling to invest in training someone to do that very job.

Not, virtually all companies train their people. Where did you get that? It is called supply and demand. If there are people who are already trained and available with the needed skill sets why would they hire you and invest in time and training to get you up to speed? The fact is the true unemployment rate in our country is much higher that reported. If I run an ad for even engineers that are thought to be scarce I get hundreds of applicants the next day.

 

[zeke4ahs]

I'd rather cut that spending from the budget, however infinitesimal it may be.

And I thought I knew how government worked until Obama started issuing executive orders. I can't imagine what Hillary would do with those "powers."

Some more pesky facts: executive orders used by Obama 235, W 291, Clinton 364, F Roosevelt 3,522, Jimmy Carter 320. Eisenhower 484. Obama is well within the norm.

 

[IUCrazy2]

It's entirely physical labor in harsh conditions in a somewhat dangerous environment. Essentially, working a frac site is the new steel plant job environment. The only special skills they need are the ability to lift objects and speak clear English as communication on the site is imperative.

The top complaint that the recruiters give me is that guys just don't want to do the physical work out in the cold. I get it...but let's be careful when we say there are "no jobs."

Got it. That is an entirely different circumstance then. The conservative side of me wants to make the argument that perhaps we make it too easy for people to stay at home and void taking those types of jobs...

 

[IUCrazy2]

Not, virtually all companies train their people. Where did you get that? It is called supply and demand. If there are people who are already trained and available with the needed skill sets why would they hire you and invest in time and training to get you up to speed? The fact is the true unemployment rate in our country is much higher that reported. If I run an ad for even engineers that are thought to be scarce I get hundreds of applicants the next day.

They wouldn'the hire me anymore because I ran from that industry as fast as my legs could take me. Funny thing about some of those jobs, you would apply and interview, get told they were wanting to go a different direction and then see the same job posted a week later. If people are lining up for certain jobs, why are companies having trouble filling those positions.

You are correct that all companies do some training, but that training is usually the way that company actually does things. As far as the types of jobs you usually hear complaints on (like welders) the company could probably find a good worker and train them for about the same time and money that they spend looking for one.

 

[UncleMark]

Most of the businesses in our country that complain about a lack of workers to do the specific job they want are also those businesses who are completely unwilling to invest in training someone to do that very job.

Word. There's no such thing as apprenticeships or on the job training anymore. Employers want plug and play cogs for their machines.

 

[hoot1]

I spent much of my early working career with large and small businesses hiring and training salesmen. Most of these jobs don't exist anymore as businesses have found better and less expensive ways to market their products.

I wonder how many of those older men and women who are now unemployed were once sales people who nobody wants except maybe as low pay retail clerks.

 

[Bruce1]

Word. There's no such thing as apprenticeships or on the job training anymore. Employers want plug and play cogs for their machines.

They all do on the job training.

 

[Ladoga]

This is all bassackwards

Yeah, we should allow refugees whose lives are in danger in their former countries. Except that is not what we are doing. Instead, we are bringing in refugees who are in search of a "better life". That should not be the standard for refugee status. We offer a better life than probably 80% of the world's populations have now. We can't possibly accommodate refugees who merely look for a better life.

When Reagan spoke of the shinning city on the hill, he was talking about the US being an example for the rest of the world to look to and imitate to help bring better lives to where those people are. Except we get that bassackwards also. The reflexive impulse often shown by our leaders is that we (and Western Civilization in general) are responsible for much of what has been historically wrong in the world, and what is wrong now. That is not Reagan's shining city on the hill stuff. That is Howard Zinn stuff, the author of the highly negative and influential Peoples History of the United States.

When the thread was posted I wondered whether folks said refugees but were talking about immigrants. Refugees - as the word describes - are seeking "refuge" from some threat in their prior domicile. We should take care of those who are seeking refuge and in danger if they return, and ask those who are immigrants to follow the provisions of US immigration law. Unfortunately, as we speak, if you get in line to become a citizen, this government may not get you a hearing for 15 years and while you wait, you'll be legally vulnerable. Let's fix that horror show that is our current legal immigration system. Let's properly identify those who are truly refugees and provide them refuge.

 

[Ladoga]

They all do on the job training.

My friends in organized labor and non-union organizations who provide millions of dollars in apprentice training right here in Indiana would be quite surprised to discover that they don't do that anymore. The Carpenters Union has a brand new (well, maybe 4 years old) training facility on the west side of I-65 south of the Greenwood exit. Its state of the art. The Associated Builders and Contractors have a training facility where apprentices earn USDOL approved apprenticeships. Its on the west side of I-465 just south of 56th street on the east side.

 

[stollcpa]

You're calling him a hypocrite for donating 4% of his income? How much do you donate? 4% is pretty freaking generous.

Yes I am calling him a hyorocrite. With the tax rates he wants to charge high income earners like himself why the hell doesn't he use the gap between the rate he's paying now and where he wants it and donate more?

And yes I give more than the hyorocrite. What I give doesn't matter. I am not yelling to raise tax rates and take money away from people.

 

[meridian]

So, the better answer is to let them die in their former countries?

Of course! Isn't it the Christian spirit, considering that most who complain such are Christians?

 

[iuwclurker1]

Sounds like what Bill O'Reilly said about the slaves.

If they had worn pampers they wouldn't have been able to piss in the soup. Shows how stupid O-Reilly is.

 

[ryanmilli]

There is a story about the refugee situation which doesn't appear in this thread. A story I became aware of thanks to a Indianapolis community forum with which I participate.

The story revolves around a private organization Exodus Refugee Immigration Inc. and other charities such as Catholic Charities, and the refugees which these organizations help just here in Indianapolis.

These refugees come from countries such as Burma, Iraq, Bhutan, Eritrea, the Congo, Somalia and Iran - often arriving with only what they can carry, ready to start new lives of freedom in Indianapolis.

Exodus staff members greet newly arriving refugees at the airport and bring them to their new homes, typically apartments furnished with donated couches, beds and chairs. Some of the funds to help these refugees are derived from government sources, but most the money is from private charities including volunteer help.

One of the most compelling group of refugees are the 7,000-8,000 Chin refugees who have made their home in Indianapolis.

The Chin people are an ethnic minority in Burma and for years they've been ruthlessly targeted by the Burmese military. Ask any Chin refugee in Indianapolis about what they faced before they fled their country, and you'll likely hear of forced labor, arbitrary arrest, rape, torture, execution. The list goes on and on, an alphabet of atrocities.

Refugees such as the Chins aren't looking for handouts, or even freedom, but are escaping from fear. Many talk about how they once had wonderful lives in the country of their origin and wished they could turn the clock back to those good times. Unfortunately those good times are gone forever except for a very few who have fond hopes of returning if conditions ever return to normal.

Picturing the refugees as folks looking for a free lunch and being brought here to vote for a particular political party glosses over the fact they are human beings just like us. Human beings looking for a normal life without fear and complete hopelessness.

These are good points. I work with refugees quite a bit in my pro bono practice through NIJC. I agree most of them are not here for a handout, but are in search of a better life in some way. However, the large majority of all immigrants favor the Democratic Party because they favor more government services. They all receive services upon arrival and most or all benefit from charity as well. So I think there's some truth in both perspectives. Largely these are great people, but we can't help everyone. As someone noted, most people suffer in ways that we don't here. As much as it would be great to help them all, there need to be reasonable limits.

 

[meridian]

Gulp. Can't believe I'm answering this. But here we go.

So, the better answer is to let them die in their former countries?

Yes, that is the Christian spirit, isn't it?

 

[meridian]

They sign up to vote democrat

For your info, one must have a citizenship to be able to vote. It takes many, many years for a refuge to get a citizenship to be able to vote.

 

[meridian]

These are good points. I work with refugees quite a bit in my pro bono practice through NIJC. I agree most of them are not here for a handout, but are in search of a better life in some way. However, the large majority of all immigrants favor the Democratic Party because they favor more government services.

Is it possible that they vote Democratic because the Democrats are warmer and sympathetic to their cause than the Repubs? It seems all I hear from the Pubs, partially based on the posts here, is

• Don't let them in!
• They are murderers and thieves
• Send them where they came from!

If I were a refugee, I certainly would not vote for the Pubs, although I would not have the right to vote.

 

[UncleMark]

For your info, one must have a citizenship to be able to vote. It takes many, many years for a refuge to get a citizenship to be able to vote.

My immigrant wife is pissed at the choices.

 

[iubud]

Refugees get SSI, SNAP, housing, free college, etc.. This is not fair to countless Americans who don't get these benefits. Also, why are we bringing people here when there are no jobs? Do we need these new, pampered welfare cases? No wonder these people want to be refugees and get to the US or Europe where they can live the good life.

From the job point of view, what job would a refugee that can't speak the language take from an out of work American? If anyone is going to complain, it is probably the unskilled, undocumented immigrant from Mexico.

I'm not wild about paying refugees to come here, but it is a drop in the bucket to what we already spend on welfare programs. My guess is these refugees aren't pampered people that feel entitled to government subsidies. I'll take anyone that wants to come here and follow our laws.

 

[Bruce1]

My friends in organized labor and non-union organizations who provide millions of dollars in apprentice training right here in Indiana would be quite surprised to discover that they don't do that anymore. The Carpenters Union has a brand new (well, maybe 4 years old) training facility on the west side of I-65 south of the Greenwood exit. Its state of the art. The Associated Builders and Contractors have a training facility where apprentices earn USDOL approved apprenticeships. Its on the west side of I-465 just south of 56th street on the east side.

I didn't say they did training for trades like carpentry, etc. the discussion was from a person who was not hired for a position for which he had similar but not exact experience. He said companies did not train anymore. I said that was not the case. It is true that the first choice hire of any company would be a plug an play person because there are a lot of people looking for jobs but virtually all companies train people in systems, products, processes, etc. for permanent employees. That was my point.

 

[Morrison]

Not be be simplistic, but isn't the refugee situation the sort of thing the Clinton Foundation/Global Initiative was founded upon? Don't they help with this sort of global issue?