"Walking Man" apparently a known homeless guy in Chicago, was set on fire and is likely to die.

[mcmurtry66]

WTF. Allegedly someone walked by, poured lighter fluid on him, set him on fire, and left. Miserable way to die. Could have been another homeless guy, whatever, but damn that's evil. There seems to be so much evil in this country at the moment. Going into a school and seeing the faces of little children and blowing them away to the point of them being unrecognizable. One right after another. Of course it's mental; but pure evil too. Murders are at a 30 or 40 year high.

Trivial I know but our leagues here are having a horrible time finding people to ref. Over $20 an hour often times. No one wants to ref because the parents are so out of control. Going onto the field. Just losing their shit over a kids' game, of which there will be a thousand more. They would rather work at Smoothie King than be outside reffing games. Some games parents are required to watch from their cars. You can't even see the fields from the cars

I was curious about religion/faith. As of this year membership/attendance at churches, synagogues, and mosques is 47%. In 2000 it was 70%. It's been at 70% or slightly higher for decades. That's a huge decline. Church was a big part of my life growing up. My kids never go. Ever. Same holds true for my friends' families. Is this lack of faith contributing to our craziness? Is it social media? All of it?

Seems to me that gun legislation (permits/high cap mags at least) is vitally important, particularly in light of how crazy we're becoming, but maybe a lack of faith or fear of something after this life is something we should get back to as well. I don't know. Seems like we are circling the drain

 

[Indianaftw]

WTF. Allegedly someone walked by, poured lighter fluid on him, set him on fire, and left. Miserable way to die. Could have been another homeless guy, whatever, but damn that's evil. There seems to be so much evil in this country at the moment. Going into a school and seeing the faces of little children and blowing them away to the point of them being unrecognizable. One right after another. Of course it's mental; but pure evil too. Murders are at a 30 or 40 year high.

Trivial I know but our leagues here are having a horrible time finding people to ref. Over $20 an hour often times. No one wants to ref because the parents are so out of control. Going onto the field. Just losing their shit over a kids' game, of which there will be a thousand more. They would rather work at Smoothie King than be outside reffing games.

I was curious about religion/faith. As of this year membership/attendance at churches, synagogues, and mosques is 47%. In 2000 it was 70%. It's been at 70% or slightly higher for decades. That's a huge decline. Church was a big part of my life growing up. My kids never go. Ever. Same holds true for my friends' families. Is this lack of faith contributing to our craziness? Is it social media? All of it?

Seems to me that gun legislation (permits/high cap mags at least) is vitally important, particularly in light of how crazy we're becoming, but maybe a lack of faith or fear of something after this life is something we should get back to as well. I don't know. Seems like we are circling the drain

Was going to write something similar about the rise and fall of the great nations in the old testament and what rotted them. This sums it up pretty well and we are here right now...IDK who wrote it but nothing could be closer.

 

[Bowlmania]

Church was a big part of my life growing up. My kids never go.

Do you?

 

[Hoopsdoc1978]

WTF. Allegedly someone walked by, poured lighter fluid on him, set him on fire, and left. Miserable way to die. Could have been another homeless guy, whatever, but damn that's evil. There seems to be so much evil in this country at the moment. Going into a school and seeing the faces of little children and blowing them away to the point of them being unrecognizable. One right after another. Of course it's mental; but pure evil too. Murders are at a 30 or 40 year high.

Trivial I know but our leagues here are having a horrible time finding people to ref. Over $20 an hour often times. No one wants to ref because the parents are so out of control. Going onto the field. Just losing their shit over a kids' game, of which there will be a thousand more. They would rather work at Smoothie King than be outside reffing games.

I was curious about religion/faith. As of this year membership/attendance at churches, synagogues, and mosques is 47%. In 2000 it was 70%. It's been at 70% or slightly higher for decades. That's a huge decline. Church was a big part of my life growing up. My kids never go. Ever. Same holds true for my friends' families. Is this lack of faith contributing to our craziness? Is it social media? All of it?

Seems to me that gun legislation (permits/high cap mags at least) is vitally important, particularly in light of how crazy we're becoming, but maybe a lack of faith or fear of something after this life is something we should get back to as well. I don't know. Seems like we are circling the drain

RE the bolded, absolutely. But no one ever wants to address it. “Evangelicals are killing this country” is what you’ll hear.

Meanwhile, an entire generation is being raised to believe in nothing.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Do you?

No. Never. I worked for two separate firms that had the archdioceses as clients. Two big cities in different states. Did a lot of abuse cases and stopped going to church around that time. Then lived in good school districts where the publics were great. My daughter knows nothing about religion. Funerals are the extent of her church exposure.

 

[mcmurtry66]

RE the bolded, absolutely. But no one ever wants to address it. “Evangelicals are killing this country” is what you’ll hear.

Meanwhile, an entire generation is being raised to believe in nothing.

I don't know that I believe. But maybe believing is only part of it. Maybe the rules, the sense of community, the interacting with your neighbors and community, and all the trappings have benefits outside of believing or not. A place to go. Other than a sterile quack's office. The church blew it with the abuse shit.

 

[Hoopsdoc1978]

No. Never. I worked for two separate firms that had the archdioceses as clients. Two big cities in different states. Did a lot of abuse cases and stopped going to church around that time. Then lived in good school districts where the publics were great. My daughter knows nothing about religion. Funerals are the extent of her church exposure.

The church is and has always been an institution of man. Subject to all of man’s shortcomings.

Don’t let your experience with churches affect your faith.

 

[larsIU]

RE the bolded, absolutely. But no one ever wants to address it. “Evangelicals are killing this country” is what you’ll hear.

Meanwhile, an entire generation is being raised to believe in nothing.

The Catholic Church scandals
Mega Churches with millions of dollars
Pastors driving Mercedes and flying in private jets
Televangelists involved in god knows what

Sure, some of the above existed prior to 2000 but today religion is a BUSINESS and business is good, even with reduced membership.

 

[hoosboot]

WTF. Allegedly someone walked by, poured lighter fluid on him, set him on fire, and left. Miserable way to die. Could have been another homeless guy, whatever, but damn that's evil. There seems to be so much evil in this country at the moment. Going into a school and seeing the faces of little children and blowing them away to the point of them being unrecognizable. One right after another. Of course it's mental; but pure evil too. Murders are at a 30 or 40 year high.

Trivial I know but our leagues here are having a horrible time finding people to ref. Over $20 an hour often times. No one wants to ref because the parents are so out of control. Going onto the field. Just losing their shit over a kids' game, of which there will be a thousand more. They would rather work at Smoothie King than be outside reffing games.

I was curious about religion/faith. As of this year membership/attendance at churches, synagogues, and mosques is 47%. In 2000 it was 70%. It's been at 70% or slightly higher for decades. That's a huge decline. Church was a big part of my life growing up. My kids never go. Ever. Same holds true for my friends' families. Is this lack of faith contributing to our craziness? Is it social media? All of it?

Seems to me that gun legislation (permits/high cap mags at least) is vitally important, particularly in light of how crazy we're becoming, but maybe a lack of faith or fear of something after this life is something we should get back to as well. I don't know. Seems like we are circling the drain

Really interesting thoughts, mcm. I don't think that fear of something after this life gets you to the thing that you seem to be seeking.

I'd suggest that the decline in religious participation isn't the symptom itself, but rather part of a larger phenomenon. It feels like there is a larger lack of community and shared experience. Social media, the pandemic, the rise of gaming, political siloing...all contribute to our social dysfunction. We dehumanize each other all the time and that ultimately down the road builds to an awful incident like this horribly sad one.

I know with my kids I work really hard to emphasize in-person human contact and connections. It's much harder to otherize someone who you've spent time with...and by that I mean actually spending time interacting with them - not just being in the same room while both playing a game on your phone. 🤣

 

[mcmurtry66]

A lot of that is obviously true Lars. But there are over 17,000 parishes in the US. And that's Catholics, not counting synagogues, mosques etc. Lots of good ones, earnest ones, I trust exist

The Catholic Church scandals
Mega Churches with millions of dollars
Pastors driving Mercedes and flying in private jets
Televangelists involved in god knows what

Sure, some of the above existed prior to 2000 but today religion is a BUSINESS and business is good, even with reduced membership.

 

[Hoopsdoc1978]

The Catholic Church scandals
Mega Churches with millions of dollars
Pastors driving Mercedes and flying in private jets
Televangelists involved in god knows what

Sure, some of the above existed prior to 2000 but today religion is a BUSINESS and business is good, even with reduced membership.

Oh I’m not absolving churches. Not by a long shot.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Really interesting thoughts, mcm. I don't think that fear of something after this life gets you to the thing that you seem to be seeking.

I'd suggest that the decline in religious participation isn't the symptom itself, but rather part of a larger phenomenon. It feels like there is a larger lack of community and shared experience. Social media, the pandemic, the rise of gaming, political siloing...all contribute to our social dysfunction. We dehumanize each other all the time and that ultimately down the road builds to an awful incident like this horribly sad one.

I know with my kids I work really hard to emphasize in-person human contact and connections. It's much harder to otherize someone who you've spent time with...and by that I mean actually spending time interacting with them - not just being in the same room while both playing a game on your phone. 🤣

Yeah and I'm completely guilty of the latter. I am ALWAYS on my phone. Even when we are watching shows together I'm on my phone. No good

 

[Indianaftw]

A lot of that is obviously true Lars. But there are over 17,000 parishes in the US. And that's Catholics, not counting synagogues, mosques etc. Lots of good ones, earnest ones, I trust exist

Ohhh my a can of worms here for sure. Uggghhh

 

[hoosboot]

Meanwhile, an entire generation is being raised to believe in nothing.

Couldn't disagree more. The generation coming up now definitely believes in something...it's just slightly different than the top-down-organized-religion beliefs of past generations. I'm incredibly impressed by kids today. There are screw ups like every generation, but while there are certainly negatives in every generation's experience, there are tons of positives in the differences today's kids are raised with.

 

[hoosboot]

Yeah and I'm completely guilty of the latter. I am ALWAYS on my phone. Even when we are watching shows together I'm on my phone. No good

It's so hard, but as our daughters get older I think we'll start to realize that we don't get that time back. I'm trying so hard to be present in as many moments as I can in her growing up because it is flying by!

 

[larsIU]

A lot of that is obviously true Lars. But there are over 17,000 parishes in the US. And that's Catholics, not counting synagogues, mosques etc. Lots of good ones, earnest ones, I trust exist

Agreed. However, my mom was a devout(ish) Catholic (whew, no bolt of lightning from the heavens, Thanks Mom) and she was disgusted after the story started coming out. Of course b/c of the actions of the priests but moreso the cover up.

Mega churches just bother the hell out of me. Like most everything else, the sense of community wanes when there are 1500 people in a church. Nobody knows all those people. The message is diluted. Prosperity gospel preaching is a sham and on an on.

My parish wasn't huge growing up but I knew a lot of those people personally or at least as acquaintances in school or sports or CYO, etc.

I think we're seeing an across the board decrease in trust of institutions both religious and public. It's been two decades for church and four since Watergate.

How do these institutions regain that trust? And this is important b/c they serve to provide a commonality which is fading quickly across this country.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Agreed. However, my mom was a devout(ish) Catholic (whew, no bolt of lightning from the heavens, Thanks Mom) and she was disgusted after the story started coming out. Of course b/c of the actions of the priests but moreso the cover up.

Mega churches just bother the hell out of me. Like most everything else, the sense of community wanes when there are 1500 people in a church. Nobody knows all those people. The message is diluted. Prosperity gospel preaching is a sham and on an on.

My parish wasn't huge growing up but I knew a lot of those people personally or at least as acquaintances in school or sports or CYO, etc.

I think we're seeing an across the board decrease in trust of institutions both religious and public. It's been two decades for church and four since Watergate.

How do these institutions regain that trust? And this is important b/c they serve to provide a commonality which is fading quickly across this country.

I really don't know. Lots of good points. And yeah the cover up was evil. Smart plaintiffs lawyers recognized the church's actions were perfect for civil Rico claims. Shredding docs. Transferring priests to far away parishes blah blah blah.

I also think it's a generational thing. As I shared my stoker is 20 years younger. I like all the old rituals and trappings of the Catholic church. Now only at funerals, but you know what I mean. She hates it. Super bored. She'd only go if it was a stand up, hold hands, rock band in the background church serving appetizers - like the ones that are scams. And I think that's generational.

I think the church (at least Catholic) is going to have a hard time getting people back, for myriad reasons. But I do think it came with great benefit to people and to communities

 

[larsIU]

I like all the old rituals and trappings of the Catholic church

I'm with you. I like the quiet, slow pace. The regimentation. The scripture reading and homily. And a priest who can keep it all under 45 mins.

I mean, I don't miss it that much b/c I don't attend but when somebody asks me what I am I still respond Catholic.

 

[mcmurtry66]

I'm with you. I like the quiet, slow pace. The regimentation. The scripture reading and homily. And a priest who can keep it all under 45 mins.

I mean, I don't miss it that much b/c I don't attend but when somebody asks me what I am I still respond Catholic.

Ditto

 

[mcmurtry66]

I'm with you. I like the quiet, slow pace. The regimentation. The scripture reading and homily. And a priest who can keep it all under 45 mins.

I mean, I don't miss it that much b/c I don't attend but when somebody asks me what I am I still respond Catholic.

Are your kids at public school?

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

Trivial I know but our leagues here are having a horrible time finding people to ref. Over $20 an hour often times. No one wants to ref because the parents are so out of control. Going onto the field. Just losing their shit over a kids' game, of which there will be a thousand more. They would rather work at Smoothie King than be outside reffing games.

Not to mention, they would have to watch an entire soccer game. 🤮

 

[larsIU]

Are your kids at public school?

Yes. Carmel. Best public school district in Indiana. Reason we moved here. Used to live on the west side of Indy.

I ain't paying for no schooling**



**except for my inflated home price/mortgage

 

[mcmurtry66]

Not to mention, they would have to watch an entire soccer game. 🤮

Probably why they just want to lash out. So Fing bored

 

[larsIU]

Not to mention, they would have to watch an entire soccer game. 🤮

I have strongly considered reffing b/c we too have a shortage. I may still do it. Eff the parents. I would kick them out. Try me.

Would like to give something back and have it be something I actually might enjoy doing. Plus it gives me another reason to stay mostly in shape. Can't stand the fat asses that can't even keep up.

 

[mcmurtry66]

I have strongly considered reffing b/c we too have a shortage. I may still do it. Eff the parents. I would kick them out. Try me.

Would like to give something back and have it be something I actually might enjoy doing. Plus it gives me another reason to stay mostly in shape. Can't stand the fat asses that can't even keep up.

You should absolutely do it. You'd be excellent and everyone would greatly appreciate it. When I was in high school Denny Long used to show up to ref games. Guy was the president and ceo of anheuser busch at the time. Never missed a game if he had to ref. Every week

 

[kurt cloverdales]

WTF. Allegedly someone walked by, poured lighter fluid on him, set him on fire, and left. Miserable way to die. Could have been another homeless guy, whatever, but damn that's evil. There seems to be so much evil in this country at the moment. Going into a school and seeing the faces of little children and blowing them away to the point of them being unrecognizable. One right after another. Of course it's mental; but pure evil too. Murders are at a 30 or 40 year high.

Trivial I know but our leagues here are having a horrible time finding people to ref. Over $20 an hour often times. No one wants to ref because the parents are so out of control. Going onto the field. Just losing their shit over a kids' game, of which there will be a thousand more. They would rather work at Smoothie King than be outside reffing games. Some games parents are required to watch from their cars. You can't even see the fields from the cars

I was curious about religion/faith. As of this year membership/attendance at churches, synagogues, and mosques is 47%. In 2000 it was 70%. It's been at 70% or slightly higher for decades. That's a huge decline. Church was a big part of my life growing up. My kids never go. Ever. Same holds true for my friends' families. Is this lack of faith contributing to our craziness? Is it social media? All of it?

Seems to me that gun legislation (permits/high cap mags at least) is vitally important, particularly in light of how crazy we're becoming, but maybe a lack of faith or fear of something after this life is something we should get back to as well. I don't know. Seems like we are circling the drain

do you read how people talk to each other around here? Would you ever believe we would have a president talk the way Trump does? Other day is was railing against Kemp in Georgia , calling him a loser and a bunch of other shit like a 3rd grader would.

 

[mcmurtry66]

do you read how people talk to each other around here? Would you ever believe we would have a president talk the way Trump does? Other day is was railing against Kemp in Georgia , calling him a loser and a bunch of other shit like a 3rd grader would.

Nature of the board. I'd like to think it wouldn't occur in real life

 

[bawlmer]

do you read how people talk to each other around here? Would you ever believe we would have a president talk the way Trump does? Other day is was railing against Kemp in Georgia , calling him a loser and a bunch of other shit like a 3rd grader would.

This place led me to God. Figured he was our last best hope!

 

[snarlcakes]

I don't know that I believe. But maybe believing is only part of it. Maybe the rules, the sense of community, the interacting with your neighbors and community, and all the trappings have benefits outside of believing or not. A place to go. Other than a sterile quack's office. The church blew it with the abuse shit.

The questions are in my opinion: 1. humans need religion because there is a God and it’s the most healthy way for humans to live (my take) 2. There is no God, but for some reason we need something bigger to believe in and it leads to a healthier and better society. 3. Or it’s all bullshit and there is no god. We have been moving towards 3 and it’s not looking real good.

 

[mcmurtry66]

The questions are in my opinion: 1. humans need religion because there is a God and it’s the most healthy way for humans to live (my take) 2. There is no God, but for some reason we need something bigger to believe in and it leads to a healthier and better society. 3. Or it’s all bullshit and there is no god. We have been moving towards 3 and it’s not looking real good.

Same

 

[GooglyMooglyWooglyBoogly]

WTF. Allegedly someone walked by, poured lighter fluid on him, set him on fire, and left. Miserable way to die. Could have been another homeless guy, whatever, but damn that's evil. There seems to be so much evil in this country at the moment. Going into a school and seeing the faces of little children and blowing them away to the point of them being unrecognizable. One right after another. Of course it's mental; but pure evil too. Murders are at a 30 or 40 year high.

Trivial I know but our leagues here are having a horrible time finding people to ref. Over $20 an hour often times. No one wants to ref because the parents are so out of control. Going onto the field. Just losing their shit over a kids' game, of which there will be a thousand more. They would rather work at Smoothie King than be outside reffing games. Some games parents are required to watch from their cars. You can't even see the fields from the cars

I was curious about religion/faith. As of this year membership/attendance at churches, synagogues, and mosques is 47%. In 2000 it was 70%. It's been at 70% or slightly higher for decades. That's a huge decline. Church was a big part of my life growing up. My kids never go. Ever. Same holds true for my friends' families. Is this lack of faith contributing to our craziness? Is it social media? All of it?

Seems to me that gun legislation (permits/high cap mags at least) is vitally important, particularly in light of how crazy we're becoming, but maybe a lack of faith or fear of something after this life is something we should get back to as well. I don't know. Seems like we are circling the drain

A metaphor for Lori Lightfoot’s chi town. Good news is we got a casino on the way, so that should bring in a better element.

I’m moving to Lincoln Park, it’s the last place that hasn’t been conquered by homeless and violent animals. That will be our Alamo.

And start sending your kids to church Murt, if only for them to learn the important lesson that sometimes you have to do things you don’t want to do, even if you think they’re pointless. And that’s too bad.

 

[Cortez88]

A group of very religious guys who prayed 5 times a day flew a couple planes into the World Trade Towers.

 

[GooglyMooglyWooglyBoogly]

A group of very religious guys who prayed 5 times a day flew a couple planes into the World Trade Towers.

Yeah. Because they didn’t go to church. You like makin my point or what?

 

[Cortez88]

Yeah. Because they didn’t go to church. You like makin my point or what?

Ah. They didn’t go to your church. See the issue here?

 

[GuyDatHoo]

Ah. They didn’t go to your church. See the issue here?

Yes. Islam.

 

[TommyCracker]

Agreed. However, my mom was a devout(ish) Catholic (whew, no bolt of lightning from the heavens, Thanks Mom) and she was disgusted after the story started coming out. Of course b/c of the actions of the priests but moreso the cover up.

Mega churches just bother the hell out of me. Like most everything else, the sense of community wanes when there are 1500 people in a church. Nobody knows all those people. The message is diluted. Prosperity gospel preaching is a sham and on an on.

My parish wasn't huge growing up but I knew a lot of those people personally or at least as acquaintances in school or sports or CYO, etc.

I think we're seeing an across the board decrease in trust of institutions both religious and public. It's been two decades for church and four since Watergate.

How do these institutions regain that trust? And this is important b/c they serve to provide a commonality which is fading quickly across this country.

Same here, I could never get over the grift even as a kid.

I consider myself a fairly pragmatic soul and there's so much about the church model that has always seemed obvious in it's brilliant and profitable set up.

1. You don't sell anything that costs the church money. You're selling words about something that no one knows anything about and therefore can't be proven. Faith.

2. You thrive during hardships making your business near bulletproof to economic recessions.

3. Points 1 and 2 aren't bad. We need a safe place to go for comfort. Where the church loses me is again in the selling and grifting part.

20 years ago my girlfriend at the time and I gave it another shot but yeah, it's the same formula. I cynically would whisper it to her before each section.

1. Here is why we're evil.
2. Here's how God is great and will save us.
3. Give us some money now thanks (and do it publicly to add more social pressure to separate your money from you).

It's a business transaction. You want my money, what do I get in return from you? Salvation?

Can I get a receipt for that please? Are you my salvation broker now? I pay you to deliver something that no one can prove exists?

Shut up.

I have two guys I know who became pastors/preachers (whatever their title is)....and they are both absolute morons. One, who was a good friend in HS, barely graduated because his grades were terrible. Seriously he couldn't pass Algebra 1. Four years trying.

You're the guy who is the expert in 'God's plan'.

Shut up

He's doing pretty well in the religious game so good for him. He's never been what I consider much of an empathetic soul and he of course tries to save me about once every few years (same pattern, he reaches out as 'old friends' but it quickly turns to a sales call. Ugh).

Lastly, no offense, but I don't see much inspiration, particularly intellectual inspiration from the devout religious fanatics.

I just see the grift. Manipulators manipulating the vulnerable.

My hometown (Bedford) has had a pretty rough couple of decades economically. They added a couple more massive cathedrals in that time (seriously one is as large as an arena). There's already beautiful large limestone churches every other block and this newer one dwarfs them all.

'Poets, priests and politicians have words to thank for their positions' - The Police

 

[Crayfish57]

WTF. Allegedly someone walked by, poured lighter fluid on him, set him on fire, and left. Miserable way to die. Could have been another homeless guy, whatever, but damn that's evil. There seems to be so much evil in this country at the moment. Going into a school and seeing the faces of little children and blowing them away to the point of them being unrecognizable. One right after another. Of course it's mental; but pure evil too. Murders are at a 30 or 40 year high.

Trivial I know but our leagues here are having a horrible time finding people to ref. Over $20 an hour often times. No one wants to ref because the parents are so out of control. Going onto the field. Just losing their shit over a kids' game, of which there will be a thousand more. They would rather work at Smoothie King than be outside reffing games. Some games parents are required to watch from their cars. You can't even see the fields from the cars

I was curious about religion/faith. As of this year membership/attendance at churches, synagogues, and mosques is 47%. In 2000 it was 70%. It's been at 70% or slightly higher for decades. That's a huge decline. Church was a big part of my life growing up. My kids never go. Ever. Same holds true for my friends' families. Is this lack of faith contributing to our craziness? Is it social media? All of it?

Seems to me that gun legislation (permits/high cap mags at least) is vitally important, particularly in light of how crazy we're becoming, but maybe a lack of faith or fear of something after this life is something we should get back to as well. I don't know. Seems like we are circling the drain

Not to be flippant but does this mean we need legislation for lighter fluid control or match control? My point is evil people will always find a way. Saying that I'm not against changes on the rules on weapons like used in latest shooting, merely saying those hell bent to do evil will do it one way or the other. Take for instance the person starting the post about hoping someone bombs the NRA rally..............even if he thought he was being funny, he wasn't

 

[anon_6hv78pr714xta]

I don't know that I believe. But maybe believing is only part of it. Maybe the rules, the sense of community, the interacting with your neighbors and community, and all the trappings have benefits outside of believing or not. A place to go. Other than a sterile quack's office. The church blew it with the abuse shit.

I've been an atheist since I was 10. I disliked religion and the church for its obvious falseness, stupidity, and hypocrisy (Catholic by upbringing, but went to services of some Protestant friends).

But the older I get, the more I see the value in institutions and traditions that bring people together and focus on things outside themselves. Religion is one of those things.

But people in the Western world aren't going back, I don't think. Religions are smartly focusing on the Third World and that is where it will thrive. Secular, rich states will not go back to a supernatural God, I don't think, but their populations will always fall sway to various secular religious-like movements (Marxism, anit-racism, etc.), I think, because it's human nature.

 

[snarlcakes]

Same here, I could never get over the grift even as a kid.

I consider myself a fairly pragmatic soul and there's so much about the church model that has always seemed obvious in it's brilliant and profitable set up.

1. You don't sell anything that costs the church money. You're selling words about something that no one knows anything about and therefore can't be proven. Faith.

2. You thrive during hardships making your business near bulletproof to economic recessions.

3. Points 1 and 2 aren't bad. We need a safe place to go for comfort. Where the church loses me is again in the selling and grifting part.

20 years ago my girlfriend at the time and I gave it another shot but yeah, it's the same formula. I cynically would whisper it to her before each section.

1. Here is why we're evil.
2. Here's how God is great and will save us.
3. Give us some money now thanks (and do it publicly to add more social pressure to separate your money from you).

It's a business transaction. You want my money, what do I get in return from you? Salvation?

Can I get a receipt for that please? Are you my salvation broker now? I pay you to deliver something that no one can prove exists?

Shut up.

I have two guys I know who became pastors/preachers (whatever their title is)....and they are both absolute morons. One, who was a good friend in HS, barely graduated because his grades were terrible. Seriously he couldn't pass Algebra 1. Four years trying.

You're the guy who is the expert in 'God's plan'.

Shut up

He's doing pretty well in the religious game so good for him. He's never been what I consider much of an empathetic soul and he of course tries to save me about once every few years (same pattern, he reaches out as 'old friends' but it quickly turns to a sales call. Ugh).

Lastly, no offense, but I don't see much inspiration, particularly intellectual inspiration from the devout religious fanatics.

I just see the grift. Manipulators manipulating the vulnerable.

My hometown (Bedford) has had a pretty rough couple of decades economically. They added a couple more massive cathedrals in that time (seriously one is as large as an arena). There's already beautiful large limestone churches every other block and this newer one dwarfs them all.

'Poets, priests and politicians have words to thank for their positions' - The Police

Most of the money isn’t coming from poor people who are being manipulating. They don’t have much money to give. It’s coming from people with means.

 

[mcmurtry66]

I've been an atheist since I was 10. I disliked religion and the church for its obvious falseness, stupidity, and hypocrisy (Catholic by upbringing, but went to services of some Protestant friends).

But the older I get, the more I see the value in institutions and traditions that bring people together and focus on things outside themselves. Religion is one of those things.

But people in the Western world aren't going back, I don't think. Religions are smartly focusing on the Third World and that is where it will thrive. Secular, rich states will not go back to a supernatural God, I don't think, but their populations will always fall sway to various secular religious-like movements (Marxism, anit-racism, etc.), I think, because it's human nature.

My sentiments exactly. It was something that brought people together. Built neighborhoods and community. Even if it was only for the kids and adults saw through it