A Lot to Chew On In This Article

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

Jackson School Board calls for unity after trustee’s ‘whiteness’ remarks reveal division

Board members say they're committed to working together after community members both defended and criticized trustee Kesha Hamilton's social media comments.

www.mlive.com

One reason this Detroit "debate" shocks me is that it is so different than what has happened/is happening here in Louisville - even though Louisville's racial troubles are still on a medium-to-high burner following the Breonna Taylor protests, plus Covid (like everywhere else), and as Louisville begins the end to enforced bussing that began in the 1970's.

Covid has had bad effects in schools here too - assuming test scores are valid tools to measure.

And this semester, families in the socio-economic areas targeted in the 70's for bussing kids OUT to other schools (to "create diversity" and remedy systemic vestiges of segregated schools) have been given the opportunity to elect for NEXT YEAR to be bussed out or to be assigned to schools in their "home" neighborhoods. Elementary elections were reported to be 75% +/- to schools nearer to home. Middle school choices were a lower-lean toward neighborhood schools. High school choices were lower still. (Interesting to me because (1) I went to college with Louisville kids who were here when bussing started and it got violent, (2) a friend and colleague who became a federal judge here had rejected the prior attempt to end the 70's school bussing order-compliant plans, on grounds the "vestiges" were not yet gone, (3) my kids went through public schools here, and (4) I know the parents of the Superintendent - who has gotten high marks throughout Covid. This plan has not yet been challenged, but so far the debate is NOWHERE near the racial tone shown in this article.

Is there a "culture war"?
Just in certain locales? (I am also biased against Detroit because of the 1968 World Series.)
Just among the young? (I gotta say - all us black and white guys my age seemed to get along a HELL of a lot better than what I see in this article. Hell, we even liked most of the same movies and music! Are us Boomers racially superior?)
How the heck did "let's fix Covid in the schools" turn racial in Detroit?

Can we move the white supremacists and black supremacists into one place, let them fight it out, then shoot the last one standing?

Here I am. Educate me.

 

[FarvaTheDog]

Race is a human construct, gender is not.

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

Race is a human construct, gender is not.

So yer sayin, "what IS a white woman"?

 

[UncleMark]

Race is a human construct, gender is not.

Yeah, gender is a grammatical construct.

 

[TommyCracker]

Race is a human construct, gender is not.

If gender equals sex and it's absolute, then why are conservatives constantly complaining about the 'feminisation of men'?

I mean for that to actually be a legit concern then you have to accept that gender is fluid and determined as a social qualifier that can be manipulated for the argument to have any basis.

Someone expressing a gender is waaay to individualistic and complicated and doesn't fit into the boxes that conservatives demand they fit into.

Please tell me again how conservatives are all about 'individualism' and 'personal responsibility' at it's core because this gender identity debate is a another good example of how it doesn't apply to everyone, just conservatives.

Which is the rub.

 

[IUCrazy2]

If gender equals sex and it's absolute, then why are conservatives constantly complaining about the 'feminisation of men'?

I mean for that to actually be a legit concern then you have to accept that gender is fluid and determined as a social qualifier that can be manipulated for the argument to have any basis.

Someone expressing a gender is waaay to individualistic and complicated and doesn't fit into the boxes that conservatives demand they fit into.

Please tell me again how conservatives are all about 'individualism' and 'personal responsibility' at it's core because this gender identity debate is a another good example of how it doesn't apply to everyone, just conservatives.

Which is the rub.

You misunderstand, you are individually allowed to think you are a turnip for all we care. None of the rest of us have to play along or celebrate it though.

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

If gender equals sex and it's absolute, then why are conservatives constantly complaining about the 'feminisation of men'?

I mean for that to actually be a legit concern then you have to accept that gender is fluid and determined as a social qualifier that can be manipulated for the argument to have any basis.

Someone expressing a gender is waaay to individualistic and complicated and doesn't fit into the boxes that conservatives demand they fit into.

Please tell me again how conservatives are all about 'individualism' and 'personal responsibility' at it's core because this gender identity debate is a another good example of how it doesn't apply to everyone, just conservatives.

Which is the rub.

Oh the things we are willing to believe about others….

if it says label label label on the label label label, put the label label label on your table table table.

PS - which of these bastages is true and Acceptanceable and which is just trying to be weird and different? The EL word or the LE word? I need to know so I can string one of ‘em up.

 

[Univee2]

You misunderstand, you are individually allowed to think you are a turnip for all we care. None of the rest of us have to play along or celebrate it though.

What? I have to stop hating turnips now? Next, it will be safe spaces for radishes . . .

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

What? I have to stop hating turnips now? Next, it will be safe spaces for radishes . . .

It's all misinfo being planted by those eff'in Rutabega.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

If gender equals sex and it's absolute, then why are conservatives constantly complaining about the 'feminisation of men'?

I complain about toxic feminism, not because men are feminized, but because our society and processes are becoming too feminized. Male and female brains are in fact different. Males and females look at life and society differently. Generally, men are impulsive and result oriented, women are process oriented. Feelings are much more important to women. There are reasons for excessive feminism. . K-12 does not have enough men. Too many kids are raised without fathers. Men have checked out of many aspects of society. That’s on us. There is more to life than how big a pickup truck is.

Someone expressing a gender is waaay to individualistic and complicated and doesn't fit into the boxes that conservatives demand they fit into.

I look at this gender ambiguity crap the same way I look at tattoos and piercings. People who can’t or won’t distinguish themselves with their accomplishments, talents, and minds do that with stupid and useless things.

Please tell me again how conservatives are all about 'individualism' and 'personal responsibility' at it's core because this gender identity debate is a another good example of how it doesn't apply to everyone, just conservatives.

You don’t have a clue about this. One who thinks in terms of their own rights, privileges and society without norms, is thinking about individualism. One who thinks in terms of responsibilities, obligations, and building a society with mutual benefits is also thinking about individualism. But they aren’t thinking about the same thing. Conservatives think in terms of the later.

 

[TommyCracker]

You misunderstand, you are individually allowed to think you are a turnip for all we care. None of the rest of us have to play along or celebrate it though.

2022 saw the most anti trans bills introduced in our history.

2023 has almost already surpassed it.

Personally I have yet to have been accosted or have seen anyone accosted for not using the right pronouns.

Most of the stories I've seen have been professors suing institutions for requiring them to engage students, not from the actual trans community which is getting the brunt of the bigoted fervor.

The 'I'm being forced to play along' is more fake victimhood. I forgot, conservatives are the underdog here.

This runs counter-intuitive to the claim of 'defending individualism'. Why do conservatives tend to go after anyone who doesn't conform to a specific version of culture, love, appearance etc and have since the beginning of time.

Because conservatives hate to be told what to do but, they can't resist telling others what to do.

They blend rights with offense. Something that is personally offensive must be offensive for all except the evil, or something like that, which is dangerous thinking.

Again the opposite of individual expression.

 

[TommyCracker]

I complain about toxic feminism, not because men are feminized, but because our society and processes are becoming too feminized. Male and female brains are in fact different. Males and females look at life and society differently. Generally, men are impulsive and result oriented, women are process oriented. Feelings are much more important to women. There are reasons for excessive feminism. . K-12 does not have enough men. Too many kids are raised without fathers. Men have checked out of many aspects of society. That’s on us. There is more to life than how big a pickup truck is.

I look at this gender ambiguity crap the same way I look at tattoos and piercings. People who can’t or won’t distinguish themselves with their accomplishments, talents, and minds do that with stupid and useless things.


You don’t have a clue about this. One who thinks in terms of their own rights, privileges and society without norms, is thinking about individualism. One who thinks in terms of responsibilities, obligations, and building a society with mutual benefits is also thinking about individualism. But they aren’t thinking about the same thing. Conservatives think in terms of the later.

Back to the women are more emotional nonsense, really?

In actuality there are in general four emotional personality types that have been used to analyze.

Using the elevator example you have:

Reds:. Aggressively looking to get to their floor as fast as they can. Typically these get frustrated when people f around. They are energized by action. These are your driver's.

Yellows:. They enjoy the social ride of the elevator. Engaging with everyone and will sometimes take another path because they are bored with the one they always take. They are frustrated by the lack of social interaction (lockdowns and isolation crush them). They are energized by social contacts. These are your sales team.

Blues:. They are severely data driven. Tend to want outcomes to be proven via data and consistent calculations. They will take the elevator at 8:05 because that's when the data said the weight load is lightest. They are frustrated when the calculations don't work (and are prone to data paralysis). They are energized when the calculations work. These are your engineers.

Greens:. They react off of others moods. Highly empathetic and sympathetic. They are energized when those around them are in a good spot, especially if they are the reasons that turned it around. These are your human resources.

Within all four of these is an internal/external comfort and of course everyone has all four colors, just their mix is different per individual.

Nothing about gender differentiates these traits. That's old BS that was used to get genders to conform to their expected social role.

Back to your post, I agree wholeheartedly that conservatives think in terms of their own rights. Problem is conservatives mislead themselves on the definition of a right.

Being uncomfortable or even offended to something you don't agree with isn't a violation of your rights. In fact many times it's another individual expressing their individuality all within their rights that makes you uncomfortable, so you mistake the non conformity of your worldview as a violation of your rights.

Like I said before, conservatives hate to be told what to do, but conservatives love to tell others what to do.

Thats a behavior of conformity, not individualism.

 

[TommyCracker]

Oh the things we are willing to believe about others….

if it says label label label on the label label label, put the label label label on your table table table.

PS - which of these bastages is true and Acceptanceable and which is just trying to be weird and different? The EL word or the LE word? I need to know so I can string one of ‘em up.

Social groupings are not to squash individuality. Social groupings are used to analyze how people are TREATED.

Ya know because bigotry tends to be focused on groups, so it makes sense to identify and push back on bigoted behavior is to analyze via groups.

So when conservatives say that they are now the oppressed to the trans community we can quickly highlight just how ridiculous a statement like that is based on the treatment and social atmosphere the two groups are currently being treated.

 

[FarvaTheDog]

If gender equals sex and it's absolute, then why are conservatives constantly complaining about the 'feminisation of men'?

I mean for that to actually be a legit concern then you have to accept that gender is fluid and determined as a social qualifier that can be manipulated for the argument to have any basis.

Someone expressing a gender is waaay to individualistic and complicated and doesn't fit into the boxes that conservatives demand they fit into.

Please tell me again how conservatives are all about 'individualism' and 'personal responsibility' at it's core because this gender identity debate is a another good example of how it doesn't apply to everyone, just conservatives.

Which is the rub.

The “feminization of men” to the extent that Conservatives complain about it, is a complaint that men are being taught and told to ignore biology, which leads to unhappiness.

Similar to how there is no drop in suicide rates post gender transition. You can bolt on some tits and chop your dick off but it won’t make you a woman and it won’t make you happy.

 

[FarvaTheDog]

2022 saw the most anti trans bills introduced in our history.

2023 has almost already surpassed it.

Personally I have yet to have been accosted or have seen anyone accosted for not using the right pronouns.

Most of the stories I've seen have been professors suing institutions for requiring them to engage students, not from the actual trans community which is getting the brunt of the bigoted fervor.

The 'I'm being forced to play along' is more fake victimhood. I forgot, conservatives are the underdog here.

This runs counter-intuitive to the claim of 'defending individualism'. Why do conservatives tend to go after anyone who doesn't conform to a specific version of culture, love, appearance etc and have since the beginning of time.

Because conservatives hate to be told what to do but, they can't resist telling others what to do.

They blend rights with offense. Something that is personally offensive must be offensive for all except the evil, or something like that, which is dangerous thinking.

Again the opposite of individual expression.

“I’m being forced to play along” is not fake victimhood. There are real world ramifications. Up until Elon you could be thrown off Twitter for misgendering.

Governments are keeping kids from their guardians if the guardians don’t affirm the child’s gender identity to their liking.

Va. Teen Sex-Trafficked Twice After School Hides Gender Identity

After the 14-year-old was found assaulted in another state, a judge kept her from loving parents because they questioned her gender identity.

thefederalist.com

Obviously you have the whole Loudon County cover up as well.

I don’t know why you are so dismissive of the conservative position on this. Likely it’s rooted in ignorance.

 

[TommyCracker]

“I’m being forced to play along” is not fake victimhood. There are real world ramifications. Up until Elon you could be thrown off Twitter for misgendering.

Governments are keeping kids from their guardians if the guardians don’t affirm the child’s gender identity to their liking.

Va. Teen Sex-Trafficked Twice After School Hides Gender Identity

After the 14-year-old was found assaulted in another state, a judge kept her from loving parents because they questioned her gender identity.

thefederalist.com

Obviously you have the whole Loudon County cover up as well.

I don’t know why you are so dismissive of the conservative position on this. Likely it’s rooted in ignorance.

No one was kicked off twitter for misgendering someone. Anyone with a modicum of sense gets that.

The tactic is called 'deadnaming' and it's the tactic of purposely misgendering someone to specifically demean, bully and intimidate. It's classic bigotry.

It's hard to take you seriously when you manipulate such an easy story like you just did because I know you know better.

What happened in Loudon was awful, but is it a pattern? If you can prove a pattern then your argument has more merit, but I don't think you can (even though social fear mongering is a huge tool in the conservative box).

I can find a ton of stories of football players raping women, does that mean that all football players are rapists and we need to eliminate the sport?

https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/s...e-sdsu-football-rape-allegations/10481402002/

More kids are raped at school dances like Homecoming and Prom, there is causation so then it must be eliminated.

To the story, a judge with holding a kid from 'loving parents' unless they acknowledged their pronouns is idiotic if true, which leads me to believe that the federalist is leaving out some pretty important details to get people worked up over pronouns.

 

[TommyCracker]

The “feminization of men” to the extent that Conservatives complain about it, is a complaint that men are being taught and told to ignore biology, which leads to unhappiness.

Similar to how there is no drop in suicide rates post gender transition. You can bolt on some tits and chop your dick off but it won’t make you a woman and it won’t make you happy.

The debate is not about biology. No one, not even the leftist of the left (okay maybe not the leftist) debates biological sex.

The argument is that gender is not just a social construct, it's one that favors a male gender.

You're a smart guy, I know you understand this.

Labeling an individual because as a kid you looked at their junk like a clairvoyant looks into a crystal ball pre determined how that person is supposed to act, dress, perform in our society is extremely limited and simple minded. That's not celebrating individuality, it's conforming to social norms.

It's pretty obvious why females hate the gender roles as it puts them in submissive boxes and frankly wastes their talents. How many brilliant inventors, chemists, lawyers or doctors did we miss out on because they were told to conform to being housekeepers? You are aware of the pay differences in gender right?

Wouldn't it behoove talented people to say....yeah I'm not conforming to the limited role that gender traps me in.

For the dudes and back to point, there definitely is (I believe) a spectrum of masculinity/femininity. There are more masculine women and more feminine men. Regardless it's how one wants to express themselves for their own personal happiness.

If a dude finds comfort and happiness in being more feminine and identifying as such....isn't that almost the definition of individualism?

Sure has a lot of conservatives frothing at the mouths and again introducing historic amounts of anti trans legislation.

 

[FarvaTheDog]

The debate is not about biology. No one, not even the leftist of the left (okay maybe not the leftist) debates biological sex.

The argument is that gender is not just a social construct, it's one that favors a male gender.

You're a smart guy, I know you understand this.

Labeling an individual because as a kid you looked at their junk like a clairvoyant looks into a crystal ball pre determined how that person is supposed to act, dress, perform in our society is extremely limited and simple minded. That's not celebrating individuality, it's conforming to social norms.

It's pretty obvious why females hate the gender roles as it puts them in submissive boxes and frankly wastes their talents. How many brilliant inventors, chemists, lawyers or doctors did we miss out on because they were told to conform to being housekeepers? You are aware of the pay differences in gender right?

Wouldn't it behoove talented people to say....yeah I'm not conforming to the limited role that gender traps me in.

For the dudes and back to point, there definitely is (I believe) a spectrum of masculinity/femininity. There are more masculine women and more feminine men. Regardless it's how one wants to express themselves for their own personal happiness.

If a dude finds comfort and happiness in being more feminine and identifying as such....isn't that almost the definition of individualism?

Sure has a lot of conservatives frothing at the mouths and again introducing historic amounts of anti trans legislation.

I am aware that the gender pay gap is a myth that is predicated on different decisions and preferences of men and women. These decisions and preferences are of course rooted in biology.

Men commonly go into higher earning fields are more likely to ask for a raise and women are more likely to not work or take time off.

If you are going to recite fallacies and you think regulations or laws to prevent deadnaming or misgendering are acceptable we just have a completely different world view.

Stop with the “conservatives this” “conservatives that” nonsense.