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Vivek is the most Presidential

yea, that may be how he defines woke but most people/dems that get accused of being woke don't fall under what he defines it as being.
As much as I’d like to accept what you say here on faith, the left just spent the last week losing their shit over the end of affirmative action. That kind of reaction fits precisely into Ramaswamy’s definition of woke.

So now for the second time in this thread, you are demonstrably wrong.
 
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That’s a stupid comment. You should keep the stupid to yourself. In what world is offering to leave NATO conservative? That’s the opposite of conservative. He’s acceptably conservative on other issues, but somethings are disqualifying, and offering to leave NATO is one. Right now I’m good with the Governors.
Feel free to post a video of his NATO position.
 
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He also wants birthright citizenship to end, along with the constitutional right to vote at the age of 18. I read he supports a constitutional amendment that requires citizens to “earn” their right to vote.
Irrelevant since it will never happen.
 
A plan is no problem. An unacceptable plan is. If he modifies the plan to something acceptable he might be acceptable.
I don't know the answer to this...but that seems like a plan that Trump boasted about a lot (though conveniently never attempted). Is it still popular enough with enough of Trumps supporters, that its something the other candidates need to fake until the primary is over? Obviously leaving NATO isn't happening, and shouldn't happen.

But do millions of GOP core voters still think it should?

Some potential answers for GOP candidates..."I could see a day when we no longer need to be a member of NATO." Or better yet, "I could see a day when NATO is no longer necessary." And then when pressed, either by reporters, town hall questions, or in a debate, he/they could have a canned answer like, "I will do anything and everything within my power that's in the best interest of the United States, and the safety of American citizens. For too many years, our leaders have spent too much time worrying about the rest of the world, and not enough time fixing and protecting the United States of America."

Red meat answer that is easily walked back after the primary.
 
Feel free to post a video of his NATO position.
Does that mean you agree that offering to leave NATO to Russia is disqualifying? I heard it on SiriusXM POTUS channel. I’m not the only poster that’s heard it. Look back to the one I responded to.
 
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Did you watch the video? At no point did he say anything about what you’re talking about. He was extremely kind and respectful to a person who was being an a#%. Every Republican candidate will say something about woke, nobody cares besides liberals, which is kind of the point.
Nope, I googled his name, it came up with a link to his campaign site that is below. He mentions only two things there, other than a need for money. First was to defeat woke, the second to "restore American excellence".

 
I think it is a serious issue. Not the only one, but it is one. It affects education, jobs, interpersonal relationships, etc. Foreign policy and the debt ceiling debates don't touch me on a day-to-day basis; the other stuff does.
True
 
Nope, I googled his name, it came up with a link to his campaign site that is below. He mentions only two things there, other than a need for money. First was to defeat woke, the second to "restore American excellence".

I don't see the same thing you're describing.

I see no mention of restoring American excellence or any written reference to the word "woke".

Donate today to help Vivek WIN the White House and support:



Excellence
over Victimhood | Democracy over Aristocracy | America over China | Diversity of Thought over Appearance | Truth over Relativism | Equal Opportunity over Equal Results

Below the fold is all the donation options and obligatory legalese.
 
Irrelevant since it will never happen.
It isn't irrelevant as it shows his core beliefs. It may not happen, but the fact he wants to do those things leads one to question his judgement.

His desire to end Ukraine funding is pretty damning to me. Putin's whole war operation is to outlast the west. It is an extraordinarily bad idea to teach dictators they can easily outlast us when we aren't even fighting.

Prigozhin was allegedly mad at the "outwait the west" strategy and that's why he made the moves he made. Sadly, it may be Putin is right, give us two years and we'll let them have Ukraine and we'll probably throw in Poland as way of an apology.
 
I don't see the same thing you're describing.

I see no mention of restoring American excellence or any written reference to the word "woke".

Donate today to help Vivek WIN the White House and support:



Excellence
over Victimhood | Democracy over Aristocracy | America over China | Diversity of Thought over Appearance | Truth over Relativism | Equal Opportunity over Equal Results
On the left side I see a bar with donation amounts. Below that are some checkboxes, the first for monthly. The second is that they need to hit their July mid-month goal. It then says "If you want to defeat wokeism...". Below that one can mark that they are retired. It appears on my PC and my Android.
 
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He also wants birthright citizenship to end, along with the constitutional right to vote at the age of 18. I read he supports a constitutional amendment that requires citizens to “earn” their right to vote.
I’d be good with ending birthright citizenship. The time for that is past. Most countries don’t have it and they’re probably right.

I don’t like the voting age one, but it won’t happen.
 
What type is that?
as giggity said the neocon bush type. i'm not going to get into a debate with you on foreign policy other than at the surface level because i do not know enough. what i do know is the surface level is the extent of most voters understanding of same. i think when trump said we are not going to be the policeman to the world it resonated. i don't think young voters today want old school conservatives. bush types. i don't. and i recognize you are a military man so you are vested in this stuff and i respect your opinion and service and aloha the neocons approach might be right. it might be prudent and sound. but i don't think it's what people (and younger) people today want. they want to focus on america. make america great. through trump policies. through wokeism. whatever. not go into iraq or afghanistan or anywhere else. i don't think low recruitment figures are a coincidence. i think they are a sign or maybe even a totem.

so you get lauded by the dems on the board as a "real" conservative and to "take your party back" but i think they are actually wrong. that's not what the conservatives want anymore. that's not how the party is evolving/devolving
 
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On the left side I see a bar with donation amounts. Below that are some checkboxes, the first for monthly. The second is that they need to hit their July mid-month goal. It then says "If you want to defeat wokeism...". Below that one can mark that they are retired. It appears on my PC and my Android.
Thanks. I thought that was all just T&C's regarding the donation. Didn't really read it close enough.
 
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Irrelevant since it will never happen.

I would say relevant in that you still probably wouldn't want someone in office that had those beliefs.

It would be akin to a dem saying he was going to raid everyone's houses and take their guns away from them. Even though he would never succeed, many would still want to keep him away from the white house.
 
Nope, I googled his name, it came up with a link to his campaign site that is below. He mentions only two things there, other than a need for money. First was to defeat woke, the second to "restore American excellence".


RAE just doesn't have the same ring to it as MAGA lol.
 
as giggity said the neocon bush type. i'm not going to get into a debate with you on foreign policy other than at the surface level because i do not know enough. what i do know is the surface level is the extent of most voters understanding of same. i think when trump said we are not going to be the policeman to the world it resonated. i don't think young voters today want old school conservatives. bush types. i don't. and i recognize you are a military man so you are vested in this stuff and i respect your opinion and service and aloha the neocons approach might be right. it might be prudent and sound. but i don't think it's what people (and younger) people today want. they want to focus on america. make america great. through trump policies. through wokeism. whatever. not go into iraq or afghanistan or anywhere else. i don't think low recruitment figures are a coincidence. i think they are a sign or maybe even a totem.

so you get lauded by the dems on the board as a "real" conservative and to "take your party back" but i think they are actually wrong. that's not what the conservatives want anymore. that's not how the party is evolving/devolving
Who’s a Neocon now? What does it mean? I believe isolationism is wrong and dangerous, and that we should have the best military in the world, but those things don’t equal Neocon.
 
Who’s a Neocon now? What does it mean? I believe isolationism is wrong and dangerous, and that we should have the best military in the world, but those things don’t equal Neocon.
we're trying to find a conservative you like. my guess is you are a fan of the bush types. neocons. that's a dying breed in the republican party imo. i suspect we are going to see more and more younger politicians willing to engage globally economically but not militarily. so yes there will be greater isolation, as promoted by trump and i trust many others. vivek and if you'll recall desantis also said that he doesn't believe support for ukraine is in the best interest of the united states. vivek and desantis are both elites, both harvard/yale, both exceptionally young.

as i said. when the dems on here say for conservatives to take their party back, or aloha's gop, i don't think they recognize the party has and is changing. there's nothing to take back.
 
Not something he has committed to or even proposed but when Dave Smith pressed him on it, he far from took it off the table.


42 minutes mark.

Dave Smith is a full blown end the state libertarian in the mold of Ron Paul and helped blow up and remold the '22 Libertarian Convention as part of the Mises caucus. There's little wonder that he brought it up. I kind of like the way Vivek handled that.
 
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we're trying to find a conservative you like. my guess is you are a fan of the reagan/bush types. neocons. that's a dying breed in the republican party imo. i suspect we are going to see more and more younger politicians willing to engage globally economically but not militarily. so yes there will be greater isolation, as promoted by trump and i trust many others. vivek and if you'll recall desantis also said that he doesn't believe support for ukraine is in the best interest of the united states. vivek and desantis are both elites, both harvard/yale, both exceptionally young.
A NeoCon is someone who fails to see how antagonistic foreign policy makes us less safe not more.

Bringing NATO to Russia’s doorstep had predictable results.


Russia made clear that Georgia and Ukraine admittance to NATO was a red line. Yet NATO continued to kick around the idea. Merkel went as far as to say “We’re just biding time” following the Minsk agreement.

George Kennan also warned of NATO expansion leading to conflict after the end of the Cold War.

The idea of NATO being a defensive alliance is no more comforting to Putin than a Cuban -Russian defensive alliance would be to us.

A NeoCon is someone who believes we were attacked on 9/11 because “They hate our freedom”. Someone who acts surprised every time a U.S. backed regime change in Libya, Syria or Iraq only makes things worse.

Someone who thinks American interests around the world are best secured via the barrel of a gun.

An Aloha.
 
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we're trying to find a conservative you like. my guess is you are a fan of the bush types. neocons. that's a dying breed in the republican party imo. i suspect we are going to see more and more younger politicians willing to engage globally economically but not militarily. so yes there will be greater isolation, as promoted by trump and i trust many others. vivek and if you'll recall desantis also said that he doesn't believe support for ukraine is in the best interest of the united states. vivek and desantis are both elites, both harvard/yale, both exceptionally young.

as i said. when the dems on here say for conservatives to take their party back, or aloha's gop, i don't think they recognize the party has and is changing. there's nothing to take back.
I don’t like DeSantis or Trump. Vivek offering Russia the US pulling out of NATO is a nonstarter. Pence has too much Trump stank in him to have a chance. I like Haley and Scott best. I’d take Hutchinson if he managed to win the primaries. I like Christie too, but he also has some Trump stank on him. He’ll be fun to watch in the debates.
 
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A NeoCon is someone who fails to see how antagonistic foreign policy makes us less safe not more.

Bringing NATO to Russia’s doorstep had predictable results.


Russia made clear that Georgia and Ukraine admittance to NATO was a red line. Yet NATO continued to kick around the idea. Merkel went as far as to say “We’re just biding time” following the Minsk agreement.

George Kennan also warned of NATO expansion leading to conflict after the end of the Cold War.

The idea of NATO being a defensive alliance is no more comforting to Putin than a Cuban -Russian defensive alliance would be to us.

A NeoCon is someone who believes we were attacked on 9/11 because “They hate our freedom”. Someone who acts surprised every time a U.S. backed regime change in Libya, Syria or Iraq only makes things worse.

Someone who thinks American interests around the world are best secured via the barrel of a gun.

An Aloha.
So right of the bat you’re wrong. I don’t support an antagonistic foreign policy. Most everything in that is either totally wrong or mostly wrong, ending with our interests are best served via the barrel of a gun. Wrong.
 
Someone who thinks American interests around the world are best secured via the barrel of a gun.
i don't think that's going to work for politicians going forward. again i don't think it's a coincidence recruitment is down. i was at my favorite deli last week and some dude was in a full fatigues military outfit in line behind me. i did a double take. it was anachronistic. almost like seeing a nun. i had my deli guy put his lunch on my tab. grab these immigrants at the border. they're already tough. get them educated up and give them a path to citizenship through service. the smart ones at least
 
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Most everything in that is either totally wrong or mostly wrong, ending with our interests are best served via the barrel of a gun. Wrong.
And that is the last we’ll hear from you on the topic of NATO expansion being provocative because your position is wrong. Dead wrong.
 
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It’s a shame that Trump takes up so much oxygen, because I would love to see this primary without him. The Pubs actually have an incredibly deep bench.

DeSantis, Vivek, Haley, Scott, Mayor Frank. What an impressive crew.

Who’s on the D’s bench?

Newsome, Pete and Kamala? Jelly Belly Pritzker?

A laughing stock. A farce.

Suspect Trump loves a long list of competition. The more the better, as he has a solid base.
 
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Lol…thanks for the post. It’s amazing how false narratives get pushed so quickly. @Aloha Hoosier he didn’t say he wanted to leave NATO. In my best Trump voice, FAKE NEWS.
I didn’t say he wanted to leave NATO. Don’t change what I said. What Goo and I both said was that Vivek said he’d considering pulling out of NATO in exchange for peace in Ukraine. It wasn’t that video interview, it was on POTUS and that is definitely what I understood him to say. That position is a nonstarter for me. If he rolls that back or changes it, he might be back to viable. He’s pretty smooth in his interviews too.
 
Maybe it dominates the board because it's the same 10 posters always posting about the same stuff day after day and isn't a actual indication on what people want to talk about in the real world.

My parents, my wife's parents and some of my friends are some of the biggest right leaning people I know and woke never comes up if politics comes up (which I admittedly try to avoid with them). Hell, I'm fairly certain if I asked either of my parents or in laws what woke meant, they would look at me weird and say something like just getting up from a
What position?
It doesn’t matter you’re wrong!
 
Maybe it dominates the board because it's the same 10 posters always posting about the same stuff day after day and isn't a actual indication on what people want to talk about in the real world.

My parents, my wife's parents and some of my friends are some of the biggest right leaning people I know and woke never comes up if politics comes up (which I admittedly try to avoid with them). Hell, I'm fairly certain if I asked either of my parents or in laws what woke meant, they would look at me weird and say something like just getting up from a nap.
Well that settles it, if your cousin Jethro doesn’t care, no one does.🙄
 
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as giggity said the neocon bush type. i'm not going to get into a debate with you on foreign policy other than at the surface level because i do not know enough. what i do know is the surface level is the extent of most voters understanding of same. i think when trump said we are not going to be the policeman to the world it resonated. i don't think young voters today want old school conservatives. bush types. i don't. and i recognize you are a military man so you are vested in this stuff and i respect your opinion and service and aloha the neocons approach might be right. it might be prudent and sound. but i don't think it's what people (and younger) people today want. they want to focus on america. make america great. through trump policies. through wokeism. whatever. not go into iraq or afghanistan or anywhere else. i don't think low recruitment figures are a coincidence. i think they are a sign or maybe even a totem.

so you get lauded by the dems on the board as a "real" conservative and to "take your party back" but i think they are actually wrong. that's not what the conservatives want anymore. that's not how the party is evolving/devolving
Just one thing: the "party" does not equate to "the conservatives." It could, but it is not necessary and, I think most of the party is not conservative anymore in the meaningful sense that word has been used for the last 100-200 years.
 
Just one thing: the "party" does not equate to "the conservatives." It could, but it is not necessary and, I think most of the party is not conservative anymore in the meaningful sense that word has been used for the last 100-200 years.
Yes 👍
 
candidate in my opinion. Extremely intelligent, kind, and very articulate. Unfortunately, that means he has zero chance of being President.

One thing I noticed is that he repeatedly promises to do X, but that it could only be temporary and he would stop doing X later. For example, he wants to "temporarily" end birthright citizenship. Can't remember other specific examples, but he did it repeatedly to the point that it seemed he was hedging on just about everything.

Then he wants to overhaul education, but somehow thinks he can do that by abolishing the Department of Education. Huh? How you going to overhaul it nationally without a Department of Education? Just let each state decide how to do it? Yeah, that will work well.

He also wants to abolish the IRS and the FBI, replacing the FBI with, essentially, a new FBI.
 
Not something he has committed to or even proposed but when Dave Smith pressed him on it, he far from took it off the table.


42 minutes mark.

This is probably why he won't win: he does hour-long interviews. That kind of transparency leads to more opportunity to screw up and have people take you out of context and find things to attack you on. I don't think many voters value the willingness to put yourself out there like that or penalize those who don't.
 
One thing I noticed is that he repeatedly promises to do X, but that it could only be temporary and he would stop doing X later. For example, he wants to "temporarily" end birthright citizenship. Can't remember other specific examples, but he did it repeatedly to the point that it seemed he was hedging on just about everything.

Then he wants to overhaul education, but somehow thinks he can do that by abolishing the Department of Education. Huh? How you going to overhaul it nationally without a Department of Education? Just let each state decide how to do it? Yeah, that will work well.

He also wants to abolish the IRS and the FBI, replacing the FBI with, essentially, a new FBI.
I think he’s piggybacking on some of Desantis’ anti woke slash compromised agencies rhetoric. Dumping agencies has obviously been done but it ain’t easy and requires congress
 
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