It's that last bit where it gets tricky. People are naturally selfish. Others tend to get short(er) shrift.
Vaccine Shaming
- Thread starter MikeHoncho69
- Start date
The only issue is their decision can have a negative effect on everyone around them if we can't get to a point of herd immunity before mutations make the vaccine less effective.
This is similar to smokers saying they have a right to smoke and nonsmokers saying they have a right to not be subject to secondhand smoke.
I never said anything about having the right to force the consequences of a choice upon others.
TL;DR. Quit being a girl, get the shots, and let us all go back to living normally.
OP solicited opinions. I gave mine. If your opinion is that people should relegate all decisions regarding their body to the government in lieu of making their own choices and being responsible for the results of those choices, then just come out and say it.
A
anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa
Guest
If you mean you’re ok with me suing someone that gets my mother hospitalized with COVID because she isn’t able to have the vaccine and someone who refuses to get one put her there by being in a public space with her, and if that’s your definition of “responsible for the results,” then we agree.
If that's a reasonable outcome of the choice that was made, then I'm cool with that. Not sure how it would play out in court with all the possible extenuating circumstances, but that's a different conversation.
So your fear is the vaccine affecting your wife’s pregnancy, but what about your wife contracting COVID-19 and the affects of the virus on the expected mother and baby? I think you need to research which scenario outweighs the other. In other words, you just might be putting wife and baby at greater potential risk by not receiving the vaccine, based on your belief in freedom over science. Many Darwin Awards have been won with this kind of strategy.
It isn't all or nothing. If one person's decisions can have an effect on another person's health then it should be up for discussion though.
Yes, you gave your opinion and i gave mine.
Edit
In a perfect world, the government wouldn't have to interfere or enforce anything but people as a whole tend to be greedy/selfish. Without government stepping in, does anyone think all or even most factories would watch their own pollution? Companies would treat/pay employees fairly? Food companies would make sure nothing harmful is put in their products? I'd prefer the government didn't have to step in but I also see it as people have proven time and again to not do the right thing on their own, especially when doing the wrong thing helps pad their wallet.
For an analogy, if the NCAA didn't have intervene with rules and guidelines, then would teams overwork their players for a competitive advantage? Think the league would survive on the honor system of being fair? Teams try to stretch the rules as it is to gain an advantage.
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I have a 70 yo brother and a 68 yo sister both refusing to get vaccinated due to Trumpism and bad info from their religious leaders. I try to rationalize with them, gently, but I am losing.
Whoa, I hope you wouldn’t really do that. You have a right to not get vaccinated but you don’t have a right to not be criticized for that decision. If it is that annoying, stay away from them. Lying about being vaccinated would be highly unethical
People are frustratingly complicated and senseless as it relates to COVID. The media has created permanent hysteria among people, even those that are vaccinated. I have always been in the vaccination camp, but I was never going to drive 4 hours to get a dose.
Needless to say, I unfortunately got COVID along with my wife a little over a month ago. We overcame it and our kids never got it (no symptoms and multiple negative tests - how that happens with little kids, who the F knows).
So, we've booked a nice family vacation in May and offered to see our families since we haven't seen them in over a year now. My wife's parents, despite being vaccinated told us they aren't going to get on a plane, eat in a restaurant, go to a gym, etc. for at least another year. Also, despite being vaccinated, they are not comfortable interacting with anyone else inside (meaning we cannot travel to them and stay with them). Interesting way to live your last good years and sad considering their grandkids are spread out and aren't getting any legitimate time with their grandparents.
In the same vein, my SIL said the same thing (re: travel, restaurants, group outings - even outdoors, etc.), despite being 30 years younger than her parents.
I have no problem with people being more cautious than normal and everyone is able to make their own choices, but at some point you have to question why they even got the vaccine. If you are going to stay in a bubble, let other people that want to get vaccinated and return to normalcy go in front of you.
Either way, it's pretty damn sad that despite a scientific miracle (vaccination development), proof of low risk (particularly to healthy and younger people), my kids won't have interacted with that side of the family for over two years in person. The amount that they change in weeks, let alone years, is remarkable. I wish her family would be willing to get over their irrational fears and witness some of it before it is too late.
A true f'in shame.
I don't think that is right 76 (not saying it wasn't previously).
After warning for months that vaccinated people should still be cautious in order to not infect others, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention suggests they may not be at much risk of transmitting the coronavirus.
“Vaccinated people do not carry the virus — they don’t get sick,” Dr. Rochelle Walensky, director of the CDC, told MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow on Tuesday. That’s “not just in the clinical trials, but it’s also in real-world data.”
Walensky was referring to a new CDC study that suggests those fully inoculated with the vaccines produced by Moderna and Pfizer don’t transmit the virus. Researchers looked at how the shots protected nearly 4,000 health-care workers, first responders, and other essential workers toiling in eight U.S. locations against the virus and more-contagious variants. Following a single dose of either vaccine, the participants’ risk of infection was reduced by 80 percent, and that figure jumped to 90 percent after the second dose. Without infection, people are unable to spread the virus. The results are similar to what scientists saw in clinical trials for the vaccines, which found that two doses of either two-dose vaccine had an efficacy rate of around 95 percent.
Depends on which vaccine you get is my impression based on everything I've read and heard on the cable news sites.... It also supposedly depends on which variant is attacking you...
The CDC and the WHO appear to be in a race to the bottom for the Least Trustworthy award...
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If you can find some links for 40%, please post them as that would be alarmingly ineffective.
WHO is already Satan, so the CDC will never reach it.
You're free to do whatever you want... and the rest of us are free to ridicule you for being an idiot.
Here's what I've found so far... and I'm not attempting to come back at you in any way, I just don't trust the CDC or the WHO... The CDC has fumbled the ball at every opportunity and seemingly has just become an extension of whichever political power is in office...
The WHO continues to front for the CCP and has done so so many times that they simply can't be taken seriously any longer...,(in my opinion)..,
Pfizer has the best numbers so far but from what I understand that's only against the earliest variants...
Here's a few links:
Coronavirus (COVID-19) Overview
COVID-19 is a new type of coronavirus that causes mild to severe cases. Here’s a quick guide on how to spot symptoms, risk factors, prevent spread of the disease, and find out what to do if you think you have it.
COVID-19 vaccines vs. variants: The state of play
With new, potentially more infectious coronavirus variants on the horizon, how will vaccine development keep pace? Medical News Today investigate.
www.medicalnewstoday.com
What you need to know about the UK, South Africa, and Brazil coronavirus variants
Covid-19 virus variants underscore the urgency of getting billions of people across the world vaccinated.
qz.com
New COVID variant with 5 mutations identified in California
Moderna vaccine reduces viral spread by at least 60 percent, finds study
An interesting new study by researchers at Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health in the U.S. suggests that the currently used Moderna vaccine reduces viral shedding by about 60%.
www.news-medical.net
What scientists do and don’t know about the Oxford–AstraZeneca COVID vaccine
Results confirming the vaccine’s strong protection against COVID-19 were welcomed following last week’s pause in roll-outs — but fresh questions have now emerged about the data.
www.nature.com
Like I said, it depends on which vaccine you're given and which variant you're being attacked by... So far it appears that Pfizer has the most effective vaccine but it also appears that the CDC, in an effort to please their masters, has dropped the guideline of getting the 2nd Pfizer dose into arms not later than 17 days and pushed that all the way out to 42 days..., basically giving you two separate 1st doses instead of the original protocol of a first and second dose working together...
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Exactly right. If this was a vaccine against shingles, it's one thing. A VERY infectious virus that has shut down society and damaged the world economy is a completely different thing.
In this case, the OP's decision doesn't end with HIS decision. His libertarian views are now infringing on other free citizens' lives.
In this case, the OP's decision doesn't end with HIS decision. His libertarian views are now infringing on other free citizens' lives.
Here's what I've found so far... and I'm not attempting to rip you in any way, I just don't trust the CDC or the WHO... The CDC has fumbled the ball at every opportunity and seemingly has just become an extension of whichever political power is in office...
The WHO continues to front for the CCP and has done so so many times that they simply can't be taken seriously any longer...,(in my opinion)..,
Just a note... I thought I said 60 percent, not 40 percent... Pfizer has the best numbers so far but from what I understand that's only against the earliest variants...
Here's a few links:
Coronavirus (COVID-19) Overview
COVID-19 is a new type of coronavirus that causes mild to severe cases. Here’s a quick guide on how to spot symptoms, risk factors, prevent spread of the disease, and find out what to do if you think you have it.www.webmd.com
COVID-19 vaccines vs. variants: The state of play
With new, potentially more infectious coronavirus variants on the horizon, how will vaccine development keep pace? Medical News Today investigate.
What you need to know about the UK, South Africa, and Brazil coronavirus variants
Covid-19 virus variants underscore the urgency of getting billions of people across the world vaccinated.
New COVID variant with 5 mutations identified in California
www.cidrap.umn.edu
Moderna vaccine reduces viral spread by at least 60 percent, finds study
An interesting new study by researchers at Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health in the U.S. suggests that the currently used Moderna vaccine reduces viral shedding by about 60%.
What scientists do and don’t know about the Oxford–AstraZeneca COVID vaccine
Results confirming the vaccine’s strong protection against COVID-19 were welcomed following last week’s pause in roll-outs — but fresh questions have now emerged about the data.
Like I said, it depends on which vaccine you're given and which variant you're being attacked by... So far it appears that Pfizer has the most effective vaccine but it also appears that the CDC, in an effort to please their masters, has dropped the guideline of getting the 2nd Pfizer dose into arms not later than 17 days and pushed that all the way out to 42 days..., basically giving you two separate 1st doses instead of the original protocol of a first and second dose working together...
I just got my first dose of the Maderna today. The first appointment I could get today was at a Walgreens. Usually I'm hesitant to go to a drug store for healthcare, but I went in and it was very professionally handled, and the technician (?) who gave me the vaccination was excellent. The injection didn't hurt at all. I didn't even feel a pinch.
I'm scheduled to get my second jab on the 27th, which is what Moderna wanted from the beginning. 4 weeks. It feels great to have gotten the vaccine. Even the first dose will give 80% protection. But, even though I've had Covid (according to a an antibodies test). I'll be happy as hell when I get this all wrapped up.
The country will be in such a better place if we all just read the science...not Facebook...for information.
Haven't been on Facebook for over 10 years so I wouldn't know what they're saying on there...
I'm still waiting for my (Delayed) 2nd dose of Pfizer while hoping Biden doesn't ship a group of untested Brazilian Variant positive illegals to a halfway house somewhere in the greater Indianapolis area...
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Technically it is aged urine.
I was more offended by mask deniers because that behavior effects those around them no matter what those around that person does.
Which is the rub.
I'm not as passionate about vaccinations. I hope everyone gets it but that's the first line of defense that protects the one who gets it....so I'm less put off even though I think the anti vaxxer argument is dumb based on a belief of lies.
I can protect myself better from the dumb so I'm not as triggered by it.
I'm more triggered of the covid deniers, mask deniers and anti vaxers not wanting to put forth any effort to get through this while still complaining that we're not back to normal yet.
But to answer your question, I would give them your reason and an alternative like you'll mask up, etc cuz if they are like me....an anti-vaxxer is also a mask complainer and covid denier.
Which is the rub.
I'm not as passionate about vaccinations. I hope everyone gets it but that's the first line of defense that protects the one who gets it....so I'm less put off even though I think the anti vaxxer argument is dumb based on a belief of lies.
I can protect myself better from the dumb so I'm not as triggered by it.
I'm more triggered of the covid deniers, mask deniers and anti vaxers not wanting to put forth any effort to get through this while still complaining that we're not back to normal yet.
But to answer your question, I would give them your reason and an alternative like you'll mask up, etc cuz if they are like me....an anti-vaxxer is also a mask complainer and covid denier.
Agree... I think there will be a lot of companies require it if you want to work for them. I see where Rutgers is gonna require a student to be vaccinated to attend there. I will bet that other universities will also require it.
Many of those who will not get the vaccine are the same people who won’t wear a mask. Many in that group refuse to take necessary precautions for their decisions. They are the “I’m gonna live my life” idiots. I’m not cool with those idiots mixing amongst the masses of responsible people who got vaccinated.
There's something in the Bible regarding vaccines?
I hate hearing stories like this.
Hopefully you win out.
Well, at least we don't need to have people take an IQ test. We can tell their IQ by how much of their nose and/or mouth we can see lol.
It's amazing how many people walk around with their nose out of the mask acting like that is doing anything. Might as well put the mask over your butt and say look, i have a mask on.
Heck, I see a lot of them covering just the chin -- nose and mouth fully visible.
Trumpism has conflated freedom with childish selfishness. It’s not actually about freedom. These people are just children yelling “you’re not the boss of me”. The nose outside the mask is just a 50 something year old guy saying he will wear the damn mask but he will wear it incorrectly.
Here's what I've found so far... and I'm not attempting to come back at you in any way, I just don't trust the CDC or the WHO... The CDC has fumbled the ball at every opportunity and seemingly has just become an extension of whichever political power is in office...
The WHO continues to front for the CCP and has done so so many times that they simply can't be taken seriously any longer...,(in my opinion)..,
Just a note... I thought I said 60 percent, not 40 percent... Pfizer has the best numbers so far but from what I understand that's only against the earliest variants...
Here's a few links:
Coronavirus (COVID-19) Overview
COVID-19 is a new type of coronavirus that causes mild to severe cases. Here’s a quick guide on how to spot symptoms, risk factors, prevent spread of the disease, and find out what to do if you think you have it.
COVID-19 vaccines vs. variants: The state of play
With new, potentially more infectious coronavirus variants on the horizon, how will vaccine development keep pace? Medical News Today investigate.
What you need to know about the UK, South Africa, and Brazil coronavirus variants
Covid-19 virus variants underscore the urgency of getting billions of people across the world vaccinated.
New COVID variant with 5 mutations identified in California
Moderna vaccine reduces viral spread by at least 60 percent, finds study
An interesting new study by researchers at Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health in the U.S. suggests that the currently used Moderna vaccine reduces viral shedding by about 60%.
What scientists do and don’t know about the Oxford–AstraZeneca COVID vaccine
Results confirming the vaccine’s strong protection against COVID-19 were welcomed following last week’s pause in roll-outs — but fresh questions have now emerged about the data.
Like I said, it depends on which vaccine you're given and which variant you're being attacked by... So far it appears that Pfizer has the most effective vaccine but it also appears that the CDC, in an effort to please their masters, has dropped the guideline of getting the 2nd Pfizer dose into arms not later than 17 days and pushed that all the way out to 42 days..., basically giving you two separate 1st doses instead of the original protocol of a first and second dose working together...
The excuses for keeping schools closed this fall are disintegrating
Liberals’ New Vaccine Trick: Driving Deep Into Trump Country
Joe Raedle/GettyAs soon as Ohio opened up its coronavirus vaccine eligibility to residents over 70, Jennifer Salzano threw herself into finding an appointment for her mom, who’s 72 and has heart disease and diabetes.For the next few days, Salzano was hunched over her phone, scouring dozens of...
I had my covid. Vaccination, I am over 70 and believed it was the prudent thing to do. I personally have no idea whether or not the vaccines actually work but, they say they do, and the best evidence indicates they're right.
I do not care one way or another what you choose to do with one caveat: As long as your decision does not in danger others that have no say in your decision;
I know people who will not be vaccinated. Some have logical reasons, some are stupid and ignorant. I do not argue with either. If one of them dies because of their choice, so be it. It's the people that they come intact with that concern me. But if the rest of population gets vaccinated, it seems logical they will be the only one's at risk.
I think this is the fundamental difference between conservative and liberals. A liberal thinks he/she know what's best for other people and demands they do it. A conservative says, if it doesn't concern me or mine, the decision is yours.
I do not care one way or another what you choose to do with one caveat: As long as your decision does not in danger others that have no say in your decision;
I know people who will not be vaccinated. Some have logical reasons, some are stupid and ignorant. I do not argue with either. If one of them dies because of their choice, so be it. It's the people that they come intact with that concern me. But if the rest of population gets vaccinated, it seems logical they will be the only one's at risk.
I think this is the fundamental difference between conservative and liberals. A liberal thinks he/she know what's best for other people and demands they do it. A conservative says, if it doesn't concern me or mine, the decision is yours.
Demand for vaccines is already waning in some parts of the country
Some states are expanding eligibility to spike demand.
www.axios.com
Social Distancing Behaviors Drop as U.S. Vaccinations Rise
Significantly fewer Americans than a month ago say they are avoiding public places and isolating themselves from people outside their household.
news.gallup.com
Note which group is taking the fewest precautions
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anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa
Guest
All suburban schools for the most part around me have been open most of the year. The middle and high schools have their occasional flare ups resulting in a one week shutdown but the elementarys have been chugging along. The city schools - with their billion dollar budget (not exaggerating) haven’t opened yet. What a failure.
France, Italy Set to Extend Curbs to Contain Covid Variants
France and Italy are set to extend virus restrictions as Europe struggles to contain a sharp increase in infections due to new variants.
www.bloomberg.com
The UK has given first doses to 46% of its population and daily cases there are the lowest since September. France has given first doses to 12% of its population and.... "France leaning toward nationwide lockdown due to covid spike"
