Vaccine Shaming

MikeHoncho69

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I would really appreciate the board's thoughts on vaccine shaming. Prior to the vaccine being available, mask shaming was, and remains, a very prevalent issue throughout our society.

To be clear, I have zero issues with any of the available vaccines. I fully support each person's decision to either receive the vaccine or to not receive the vaccine. I will always be a firm believer in a person's healthcare decisions being a private matter and not something that is up for discussion unless that person so chooses.

Unfortunately for me, my wife's family has been pushing me and her to receive the vaccine. Upon learning that we are holding off for now, they were mortified and began lecturing us on why that is a terrible decision. Quite frankly, our decision is none of their business, just as their healthcare decisions are none of our business. We are the only family members remaining who have NOT received the vaccine. We do not have any individuals within either of our families who are in the at-risk category.

To be clear, we have gone out of our way to adhere to the health and safety protocols outlined by the CDC. We have also made a conscious effort to stay away from elderly people as well as those with pre-existing conditions. I'll gladly wear a mask and maintain social distancing when required.

Thoughts?
 
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Marvin the Martian

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We need at least 70% vaccinated, maybe 80%. Without that, this lingers. If we get there without you, fine.

COVID is a bit different than some diseases. Measles vaccine is dangerous to more people. Those same people are at real risk to measles. So we need to vaccinate everyone we can to save the people who cannot get vaccinated.

It appears far fewer have major health concerns with COVID, so the people at risk can get vaccinated.

At the moment, I would not say shaming is the answer. At the same point explaining that millions have been vaccinated and no one is dying or suffering long-term health issues. So suggesting people reconsider there decision isn't shaming but also I think a good idea.

70-80% is the goal. Let's get there
 

MikeHoncho69

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We need at least 70% vaccinated, maybe 80%. Without that, this lingers. If we get there without you, fine.

COVID is a bit different than some diseases. Measles vaccine is dangerous to more people. Those same people are at real risk to measles. So we need to vaccinate everyone we can to save the people who cannot get vaccinated.

It appears far fewer have major health concerns with COVID, so the people at risk can get vaccinated.

At the moment, I would not say shaming is the answer. At the same point explaining that millions have been vaccinated and no one is dying or suffering long-term health issues. So suggesting people reconsider there decision isn't shaming but also I think a good idea.

70-80% is the goal. Let's get there
I would be receptive to having a civil discussion based on data and evidence with my wife's family. Unfortunately, they allow their emotions to control them, leading to me and my wife being lectured on how we "don't care" about other people by not receiving the vaccine.
 
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Marvin the Martian

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I would be receptive to having a civil discussion based on data and evidence with my wife's family. Unfortunately, they allow their emotions to control them, leading to me and my wife being lectured on how we "don't care" about other people by not receiving the vaccine.
That is a problem. It has been that way with masking. It is that way with a lot of things. As a society we are quick to dismiss fears or concerns we do not have.

This is all like improv comedy, the answer is yes not no. Yes, I understand X concern and here is information about that which may help.
 
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MikeHoncho69

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That is a problem. It has been that way with masking. It is that way with a lot of things. As a society we are quick to dismiss fears or concerns we do not have.

This is all like improv comedy, the answer is yes not no. Yes, I understand X concern and here is information about that which may help.
It has gotten to the point that I will have no problem lying about having received the vaccine if that's what it comes down to. I will not be guilted into receiving the vaccine.
 

IUJIM

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I personally have no problem with you deciding what is best for you and your family, regarding the vaccine. There may be risks out there that we are not aware of, or may not know for some time. That being said, I also have no problem with United Airlines saying you must be fully vaccinated to get on one of their airplanes.
 

UncleMark

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It has gotten to the point that I will have no problem lying about having received the vaccine if that's what it comes down to. I will not be guilted into receiving the vaccine.
But you could be convinced? What would it take to change your mind?
 

MikeHoncho69

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I personally have no problem with you deciding what is best for you and your family, regarding the vaccine. There may be risks out there that we are not aware of, or may not know for some time. That being said, I also have no problem with United Airlines saying you must be fully vaccinated to get on one of their airplanes.
Agreed. Businesses have the right to set certain requirements just as individuals such as myself have a right not to patronize those businesses. Personal freedom and choice are what makes this country great.
 
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MikeHoncho69

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But you could be convinced? What would it take to change your mind?
My most significant concern is the potential for the vaccine to have negative effects on childbirth. My wife and I would like to start trying for our first child in the near future, and would like to wait nine months to a year to see if any women have complications in the child birthing process as a result of the vaccine.
 

MyTeamIsOnTheFloor

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Indvidual liberty should still stand for something in this country.

People used to believe things like "everyone is entitled their own opinion" and "I may disagree with you, but I will fight for your right to say what you believe."

I choose to get the vaccine.

I feel zero animosity toward folks who don't.

Throughout this thing, Covid has been politicized first, and analyzed later.

I say you get your info, and make your own decision.

But ... "don't drive drunk" and "don't make other people sick" have to walk hand in hand with "individual rights" too.

PS - I'd listen to this guy over Fauci - google his YouTube videos - "Dr. John Campbell" - he's a UK physician/researcher. Gives out non-politicized INFORMATION and don't give a damn whether it makes Trump or Biden look good or bad. Numbers are numbers and facts are facts. Good and bad.
 

Bowlmania

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My most significant concern is the potential for the vaccine to have negative effects on childbirth. My wife and I would like to start trying for our first child in the near future, and would like to wait nine months to a year to see if any women have complications in the child birthing process as a result of the vaccine.
Your vaccine hesitancy seems reasonable based on your circumstances. Is your wife's family aware that an imminent pregnancy is the reason for your reluctance to get vaccinated? If so, I'm surprised they're not more understanding.
 

Courtsensetwo

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Oct 16, 2004
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I would really appreciate the board's thoughts on vaccine shaming. Prior to the vaccine being available, mask shaming was, and remains, a very prevalent issue throughout our society.

To be clear, I have zero issues with any of the available vaccines. I fully support each person's decision to either receive the vaccine or to not receive the vaccine. I will always be a firm believer in a person's healthcare decisions being a private matter and not something that is up for discussion unless that person so chooses.

Unfortunately for me, my wife's family has been pushing me and her to receive the vaccine. Upon learning that we are holding off for now, they were mortified and began lecturing us on why that is a terrible decision. Quite frankly, our decision is none of their business, just as their healthcare decisions are none of our business. We are the only family members remaining who have NOT received the vaccine. We do not have any individuals within either of our families who are in the at-risk category.

To be clear, we have gone out of our way to adhere to the health and safety protocols outlined by the CDC. We have also made a conscious effort to stay away from elderly people as well as those with pre-existing conditions. I'll gladly wear a mask and maintain social distancing when required.

Thoughts?
Our healthcare decisions are a private matter unless and until they put others at risk. I and every person in a restaurant you walk into has the absolute right to know if someone near them has not been vaccinated.

You don't get jabbed, don't tell me and you pass C19 on to me and I give it to my Mom and she dies. You murdered her in my book.

I will be fully vaxxed but can still pick the variants up and pass them on.

I fully understand being worried about the pregnancy...Do what you want, but you need to wear a sign.
 

MikeHoncho69

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Your vaccine hesitancy seems reasonable based on your circumstances. Is your wife's family aware that an imminent pregnancy is the reason for your reluctance to get vaccinated? If so, I'm surprised they're not more understanding.
Yes, the pregnancy issue has been very clearly expressed as the reason for our hesitancy. The fact we have even been put into a position to have to explain ourselves is what pisses me off the most.
 

mashnut

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Everyone in this thread is talking about rights and privacy, that's not what the OP was about. It was about someone who's incapable of navigating a challenging conversation with their own family and came here to complain about it. The government definitely isn't responsible for making your relationship with your in-laws better, sorry Mike.
 
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MikeHoncho69

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Our healthcare decisions are a private matter unless and until they put others at risk. I and every person in a restaurant you walk into has the absolute right to know if someone near them has not been vaccinated.

You don't get jabbed, don't tell me and you pass C19 on to me and I give it to my Mom and she dies. You murdered her in my book.

I will be fully vaxxed but can still pick the variants up and pass them on.

I fully understand being worried about the pregnancy...Do what you want, but you need to wear a sign.
I understand where you are coming from. I hear what you are saying. If you are fully vaccinated, you are fully protected against contracting COVID-19. Therefore, why would anyone who is fully vaccinated be concerned about someone who is not vaccinated? Shouldn't the concern really be about the non-vaccinated person contracting it and potentially dying?
 

MikeHoncho69

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Everyone in this thread is talking about rights and privacy, that's not what the OP was about. It was about someone who's incapable of navigating a challenging conversation with their own family and came here to complain about it. The government definitely isn't responsible for making your relationship with your in-laws better, sorry Mike.
I despise federal government overreach. I'm a libertarian by nature and by choice. I'd rather be fully self-sufficient than rely on government to run my life and tell me what to do.
 

Courtsensetwo

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I understand where you are coming from. I hear what you are saying. If you are fully vaccinated, you are fully protected against contracting COVID-19. Therefore, why would anyone who is fully vaccinated be concerned about someone who is not vaccinated? Shouldn't the concern really be about the non-vaccinated person contracting it and potentially dying?
nOw THAT would be the personal choice part of it. If you are ok with the risk. The science says that as a vaccinated person I can carry and pass on without becoming ill. If we don't get to herd immunity risk remains. I have the right to know who is and who is not...becuse it affects me.
 

MikeHoncho69

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Indvidual liberty should still stand for something in this country.

People used to believe things like "everyone is entitled their own opinion" and "I may disagree with you, but I will fight for your right to say what you believe."

I choose to get the vaccine.

I feel zero animosity toward folks who don't.

Throughout this thing, Covid has been politicized first, and analyzed later.

I say you get your info, and make your own decision.

But ... "don't drive drunk" and "don't make other people sick" have to walk hand in hand with "individual rights" too.

PS - I'd listen to this guy over Fauci - google his YouTube videos - "Dr. John Campbell" - he's a UK physician/researcher. Gives out non-politicized INFORMATION and don't give a damn whether it makes Trump or Biden look good or bad. Numbers are numbers and facts are facts. Good and bad.
Thank you. These are my thoughts exactly.

I have no issue with a person being afraid of COVID-19. That's fine! However, that person has a right to stay in his or her home and not be exposed to the virus. Meanwhile, a person like myself isn't going to live in a constant state of fear. I'm going to go out, enjoy life and make the most of the time I have here on Earth.
 
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Circlejoe

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I despise federal government overreach. I'm a libertarian by nature and by choice. I'd rather be fully self-sufficient than rely on government to run my life and tell me what to do.
The government isn't requiring you to get the vaccine, so you don't have a complaint there. It seems your problem is a family issue.
 
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MikeHoncho69

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nOw THAT would be the personal choice part of it. If you are ok with the risk. The science says that as a vaccinated person I can carry and pass on without becoming ill. If we don't get to herd immunity risk remains. I have the right to know who is and who is not...becuse it affects me.
I'm wondering how it would affect you if, as you said, you could have it without becoming ill. You are going to be fine. Therefore, why would you have any level of concern about the non-vaccinated person? As you said, people like us are "ok with the risk."
 
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MikeHoncho69

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The government isn't requiring you to get the vaccine, so you don't have a complaint there. It seems your problem is a family issue.
Correct. The social pressure to become vaccinated will be a major issue for our society moving forward. It's my belief that the United States will be lucky to hit the 60% threshold of the population being fully vaccinated. Will the 60% always look down upon the 40%? Or will we learn to live with the virus and co-exist? We're already an incredibly divided and politically polarized nation.
 
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Courtsensetwo

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I'm wondering how it would affect you if, as you said, you could have it without becoming ill. You are going to be fine. Therefore, why would you have any level of concern about the non-vaccinated person? As you said, people like us are "ok with the risk."

My Mother cannot be vaccinated.
 

MikeHoncho69

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My Mother cannot be vaccinated.
I am very sorry to hear that. However, should your mother's health condition dictate the choice I make with my own body? As I stated in my original post, I will gladly wear a mask and social distance when required. I will also make a conscious effort to stay away from elderly folks and at-risk folks who are not able to be vaccinated.
 
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T.M.P.

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Therefore, why would anyone who is fully vaccinated be concerned about someone who is not vaccinated?
Because they're not selfish and don't want it to spread to others even if they don't know them and they're not the ones spreading it. Plus, the longer it's out there spreading the more chance for it to mutate.

You may have a good cause not to get vaccinated, but most don't. For many, too many, it's just maga-stupidity based on maga-lies.
 

mashnut

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Because they're not selfish and don't want it to spread to others even if they don't know them and they're not the ones spreading it. Plus, the longer it's out there spreading the more chance for it to mutate.

You may have a good cause not to get vaccinated, but most don't. For many, too many, it's just maga-stupidity based on maga-lies.

To be clear, his wife has a semi-reasonable cause, COVID has known negative effects on people and this is about a fear of the unknown. He will not be the one giving birth, so I'm not finding his wife's pregnancy a particularly convincing reason for him to avoid the vaccine.
 
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mashnut

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I despise federal government overreach. I'm a libertarian by nature and by choice. I'd rather be fully self-sufficient than rely on government to run my life and tell me what to do.

So what is it you want out of this thread? You say that you're concerned about social pressure, but you're here applying social pressure about social pressure. If you don't want government to help you avoid this difficult conversation are you just here to complain about your in-laws?
 

Courtsensetwo

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I am very sorry to hear that. However, should your mother's health condition dictate the choice I make with my own body? As I stated in my original post, I will gladly wear a mask and social distance when required. I will also make a conscious effort to stay away from elderly folks and at-risk folks who are not able to be vaccinated.
Should my Mother's health condidtion be dictated by your choice?

I still have the right to know.

How do you feel about the green pass system that the EU is preparing?

What if it comes here and you cannot enter a restaurant, school, movie, sporting event or grocery without either a green pass or a negative test within 72 hrs?
 

mcmurtry66

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It has gotten to the point that I will have no problem lying about having received the vaccine if that's what it comes down to. I will not be guilted into receiving the vaccine.
Hmmm. My ex outlaws talk nonstop about having been vaccinated. My ten year old daughter said they’re dingleberries. People who brag about being vaccinated. Lol. It’s a thing.

I too am reluctant for various reasons but once available will do it for sure.
 

76-1

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I understand where you are coming from. I hear what you are saying. If you are fully vaccinated, you are fully protected against contracting COVID-19. Therefore, why would anyone who is fully vaccinated be concerned about someone who is not vaccinated? Shouldn't the concern really be about the non-vaccinated person contracting it and potentially dying?

It's my understanding that even those who are fully vaccinated "may" still have a "up to" a 40% chance of contracting the virus (depending on which vaccine they were given, what the time frame between doses was, and what type of varient of the virus they come into contact with)... Just like with two people wearing viable masks (true N95 or better)..., two people having both been vaccinated cuts the others risk dramatically, whereas when one of them hasn't been (vaccinated) it increases the other persons risk...

Personally, I have no problem with understanding your decision based on your concerns but where we diverge is your attitude that it's okay to make that decision and then force all the rest of us to be potentially affected by it...

If you want to take your chances fine, just leave the rest of us (or at least me and my family members [some of whom could very well be forced to deal with you once you reach the hospital])... out of the equation...

It's the combination of your decision to not take it but still feeling it's your right to make everyone else deal with your decision that I have a problem with... As far as not taking it goes and then just staying away from everyone else..., I'm for you...
 

INRanger27

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I understand where you are coming from. I hear what you are saying. If you are fully vaccinated, you are fully protected against contracting COVID-19. Therefore, why would anyone who is fully vaccinated be concerned about someone who is not vaccinated? Shouldn't the concern really be about the non-vaccinated person contracting it and potentially dying?
No. That’s a simplistic way to look at it. This line of thinking is why smallpox and measles are coming back.

People who are able to be vaccinated should get vaccinated, period. There will be people that cannot get vaccinated due to underlying conditions such as allergies. Decisions made to not be vaccinated are enhancing the risk of those that cannot get vaccinated. This is true of polio, smallpox, and also true of COVID.

I feel people are being gentle with you. I won’t. You should get vaccinated and so should your wife if you don’t have underlying conditions. All data points to no issues with fertility or with pregnancy.

 

GBeltz

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I'm wondering how it would affect you if, as you said, you could have it without becoming ill. You are going to be fine. Therefore, why would you have any level of concern about the non-vaccinated person? As you said, people like us are "ok with the risk."

I think the larger picture of the virus mutating is part of the reason why some of us (like me), hope that as many people get vaccinated ASAP. We are already seeing different mutations becoming dominant across the globe. The early data suggests that this decreases the effectiveness of the vaccine in certain cases. The longer the virus circulates the more people it impacts and the greater the risk of new mutations taking hold. It sounds like your family believes that the conversation is more than "I will take my chances in getting sick". They have a point. Obviously, you have the right to not care what they think.
 

UncleMark

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I would be receptive to having a civil discussion based on data and evidence with my wife's family. Unfortunately, they allow their emotions to control them, leading to me and my wife being lectured on how we "don't care" about other people by not receiving the vaccine.
It's interesting that you denigrate your in-laws for basing their stance on emotions.

We've had numerous discussions here over the years concerning the natural human difficulty with gauging risk. We just are bad at risk analysis. Even in the face of irrefutable statistical evidence, people will assess certain things as riskier than others when they aren't, plain and simple. Instead, we assess risk on an emotional basis -- usually fear, but fear that is rationalized.

Does that strike a chord by any chance?
 
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MyTeamIsOnTheFloor

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Our healthcare decisions are a private matter unless and until they put others at risk. I and every person in a restaurant you walk into has the absolute right to know if someone near them has not been vaccinated.

You don't get jabbed, don't tell me and you pass C19 on to me and I give it to my Mom and she dies. You murdered her in my book.

I will be fully vaxxed but can still pick the variants up and pass them on.

I fully understand being worried about the pregnancy...Do what you want, but you need to wear a sign.

Yabut - I can also kill you with about 14,000 other communicable diseases - and neither of us would ever know.

Why just today I learned from a very helpful unsolicited phone solicitation that Johnson & Johnson - in addition to trying to save us all from Covid for profit, tried to kill me with baby powder for profit.

How many did I kill with all that Old Spice?

Life is risky.
Drink yer whiskey.
 
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Marvin the Martian

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Yabut - I can also kill you with about 14,000 other communicable diseases - and neither of us would ever know.

Why just today I learned from a very helpful unsolicited phone solicitation that Johnson & Johnson - in addition to trying to save us all from Covid for profit, tried to kill me with baby powder for profit.

How many did I kill with all that Old Spice?

Life is risky.
Drink yer whiskey.
There are several thousand ways I can kill you by crashing my car into you, should we allow drunk driving since it is just one more way?

We pretty much forced smallpox vaccines. Would we beca better society if smallpox were still killing lots of people? It is just one more disease.

Since we cannot vaccinate all diseases, should we stop vaccinating the ones we can?
 

UncleMark

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For months, the US and many national medical groups — including the American College of Obstetrics and Gynecology, the Society for Maternal-Fetal Medicine, and the Academy of Breastfeeding Medicine — say the vaccine should be offered to this group, in large part because there’s strong evidence that pregnancy elevates the risk for severe Covid-19 and death. (Given this data, the American Society for Reproductive Medicine goes so far as to say the vaccine is “recommended” for those who are pregnant or considering pregnancy.)​
“If a pregnant patient gets infected during pregnancy, her risk of intensive care admission is around 5 percent,” says David Baud, chief of obstetrics at Le Centre hospitalier universitaire vaudois in Switzerland, where he studies infections during pregnancy. “I do not know of any disease that put a 30-year-old woman at such high risk to be admitted to the ICU.” Furthermore, if the infection happens late in pregnancy, it increases the risk of preterm birth and the baby needing intensive care.​
 

hookyIU1990

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I would really appreciate the board's thoughts on vaccine shaming. Prior to the vaccine being available, mask shaming was, and remains, a very prevalent issue throughout our society.

To be clear, I have zero issues with any of the available vaccines. I fully support each person's decision to either receive the vaccine or to not receive the vaccine. I will always be a firm believer in a person's healthcare decisions being a private matter and not something that is up for discussion unless that person so chooses.

Unfortunately for me, my wife's family has been pushing me and her to receive the vaccine. Upon learning that we are holding off for now, they were mortified and began lecturing us on why that is a terrible decision. Quite frankly, our decision is none of their business, just as their healthcare decisions are none of our business. We are the only family members remaining who have NOT received the vaccine. We do not have any individuals within either of our families who are in the at-risk category.

To be clear, we have gone out of our way to adhere to the health and safety protocols outlined by the CDC. We have also made a conscious effort to stay away from elderly people as well as those with pre-existing conditions. I'll gladly wear a mask and maintain social distancing when required.

Thoughts?
I view it as a pretty simple proposition. What you decide to put in your body or not put in your body is up to you and you're responsible for the outcome of your decisions. Do what you think is best for you and yours while not infringing on others.