The old poor IU line? If Archie misses the tourney this year and isn't a top 20ish team next year, he should be fired. This isn't that difficult to figure out.
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Two Words - Steve Alford
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The old poor IU line? If Archie misses the tourney this year and isn't a top 20ish team next year, he should be fired. This isn't that difficult to figure out.
Good Lord, you people are just stupid. It's so very sad that we have as many STUPID people as we do, that are so called fans. STUPID IS AS STUPID DOES.
^^^^ This man speaks the truth! ^^^
It’s all about tolerance. If you are an organization that tolerates a shit show for 3 years and cannot see the lack of improvement, then that says more about YOUR competence as a leader directing the sports programs than it does about the guys coaching in them.
I never said he was a great hire. I did say I liked him and his wife is hot.
Also, I still think his wife is hot and I hope he wins a shit ton of games and several national titles. I'll glad admit I was wrong then.
To the degree you're even right (and there's some truth to what you're saying), this is all by choice -- both past and current.
I agree that we'd all do well to realize that we're not the program we were 25 years ago. But I also think that a series of good decisions can turn things around -- just as a series of bad decisions got us here. And I don't think having some guarded impatience in that is a bad thing. What it shows is absolute commitment.
I don't think that Michigan basketball is a good parallel for us. They're a football school and don't have nearly the history or tradition we do at basketball. They've had some great teams, of course. But it's just not the same thing.
Honestly, I think a better parallel for us is Alabama's (pre-Saban) football program. The Stallings years were up and down. Then they went through the Franchione debacle. Dubose got himself a 4th year only by going 10-3 in his third. Shula was awful -- and he got 3.5 years....but I'd bet anything they wish they'd pulled the trigger after the third...especially after the sanctions.
Saban was given one year on a pass -- he was 7-6. And, from there, he's never looked back. He didn't need to -- even though he didn't have a roster full of "his players."
If we allow Archie (or anybody else) more time, after 3 bad-to-mediocre ones, then we're making a declaration that bad-to-mediocre is essentially good enough.
I agree with you that 2 isn't enough. But 3 is.
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We will all know a lot more towards the end of next season. Until then, this all just a bunch of emotional noise.
I think we'd need to see the general direction of things. Recruiting is a big part of it, and what momentum (or lack thereof) comes about. Crean was dead in the water when it got to the point that he couldn't recruit high level players any longer, and only was signing classes with 100-200+ ranked guys. Which we are seeing the result of now on the floor.
Oh, I agree entirely.
But twenty is basically saying that Archie should (and would) get another year if the team has another subpar season next year. I think that's precisely the kind of compromising attitude that put us where we are today.
I think that he should be told (after this season is over) that he has until the end of next season to show something approaching the kind of results we expect.
It's kind of like those AT&T commercials about the surgeon and tattoo artist being "Just OK."
FTR, I was more than willing to give Crean an extra couple years -- given the situation he inherited. But it was way, WAY worse than the situation Archie inherited.
Everyone involved learned a lot from the TC situation. He was there four years too long and three of those are on Fred IMO. AM will understand the expectations and if he doesn't get it done in year three he will be gone.
Politely disagree. If he goes through a stretch like this of often uninspired play and an unintelligible offense next season, he’s probably out.
Is that entirely true, though? I certainly wouldn't say that there's no truth to it. But it could be overstated, too.
Deron Davis was a top 50 recruit. It's true that Juwan was above 100 -- but he's clearly demonstrated that he's better than advertised coming out of HS. And Moore, Durham, and Smith were recruited Crean -- but Archie made a concerted effort to retain each one of them. So there's some co-ownership there.
A pretty good portion of our minutes right now are being played by Archie's recruits -- or those 3 who were "co-owned."
Moreover, a big part of the gripe with Archie right now doesn't really have to do with who is or isn't on the floor. A big part of it is that our problems have been obvious and the adjustments to fix them, well, haven't.
FWIW, I think we'll be fine next year.... Assuming a few things.
Hunter is 100% healthy
We sign Brooks
We add another shooting guard (grad transfer most likely) that can actually shoot.
I agree with you. He should be gone after next year if he doesn't have a really good season.
But, so you know, there are also people who think we should give him more time even if we have another bad-to-mediocre year.
I understand this mentality, BTW -- the belief that somebody just hasn't had enough time. More often than not, though, it's a form of denial.
One thing about being a part of one of the big global fan bases in sports...plenty of opinions.
Well, I certainly hope you're right. I very much want things to work out for Archie here.
But he's got some work to do. I don't think too many people were agitated after last season. But this tailspin has been pretty spectacular (and not altogether surprising given how poorly we were playing even when we were winning). He's going to lose a lot of support if he doesn't have a really good season next year.
Well those 3 guys I think will all be fine for what they are. Al continues to progress. Smith is very frustrating, but he's been a starter basically his entire career. Moore is a little further away, obviously.
They would still be playing spot/role positions on a properly built roster. Not 30+mins like Smith and Al are having to give. When you are relying so much upon 100+ ranked guys as freshman/sophmores you are getting what we are getting. They are all struggling to finish/score the ball.
Morgan didn't really turn into a high level player until his Jr year.
I'm not really sure what Archie should have done different when he was starting...by not keeping those guys signed. If you don't sign them, who would have he signed in April/May of his first spring? There was some talk about him bringing a Dayton recruit along (a guard?), but doubt that would have made much a difference.
Davis has been hurt for a year+ now.
He had Morgan, McBob and Green beyond that. That's better than what Crean started with, sure....but not miles ahead of that.
That's part of the problem here -- and some really important context. It's not just that we're losing, it's how we're losing and how we're responding to losing.
I'm not the world's biggest Dakich fan. But he illustrated a very good point in a very effective way during his IU rant -- and that was Archie's reaction to losing. He didn't even seem fazed by it. He didn't seem upset. He didn't call anybody out. He seemed to be kissing their butts, even after they played horribly.
I wanted Billy Donovan because he had great success at a football school. With this said I am willing to give Archie a chance. I would not be in favor of firing him after this season. Let him get some more recruits and see how he does. One issue with any organization is stability. If we keep getting rid of coaches without giving them a real chance then it hurts the program. It also makes other coaches to not want to come here. Then you have a real problem.
But, whatever they are now and whatever they become, Archie can't point to them and say "Those are Tom's guys." Because that would only be half-true.
If I thought that our problems right now were entirely or mostly due to the roster, I'd have more sympathy for what I think you're saying. But I don't think that.
Who we do or don't have on the floor doesn't explain all of what's been plaguing us. One example I keep coming back to (it's not the only one) is how Romeo still has a green light. I'd venture to guess that you're a better perimeter shooter than he is. Any coach in their right mind would've told him weeks, if not months, ago that he can't shoot beyond the arc until further notice....he can still work on it in practices. But not in competitive games. Yet....
I agree that he shouldn't be fired after this year. I just think we should be prepared to move on after 3 years, if we see similar results as year 1 and 2.
I'm an Archie guy and his stewardship of the program has been a breath of fresh air after 20 years of silly drama but....
I have to hold him to the same standards I did with Crean.
It doesn't take three years for a good coach to get IU basketball into the tourney.
He can't lose this team like Crean did where he goes on some insane streak and loses his last 12 games in year three like Crean did.
At a minimum he's got to make the post season this year, like NIT. That will still be a disappointment but not as bad as no post season and it will still he considered growth with some injury issues.
Year three needs to be a tourney team.
I don't buy that we'll suck next year. I don't think Romeo is as big of a loss that everyone thinks he is. Morgan is gigantic though.
Hoping next year we can get more guys who will actually fight and claw, really go after it like Morgan and McBob (who right now are the only two or maybe four guys who will dive on the floor and fight for a 50/50 ball).
I have to hold him to the same standards I did with Crean.
It doesn't take three years for a good coach to get IU basketball into the tourney.
He can't lose this team like Crean did where he goes on some insane streak and loses his last 12 games in year three like Crean did.
At a minimum he's got to make the post season this year, like NIT. That will still be a disappointment but not as bad as no post season and it will still he considered growth with some injury issues.
Year three needs to be a tourney team.
I don't buy that we'll suck next year. I don't think Romeo is as big of a loss that everyone thinks he is. Morgan is gigantic though.
Hoping next year we can get more guys who will actually fight and claw, really go after it like Morgan and McBob (who right now are the only two or maybe four guys who will dive on the floor and fight for a 50/50 ball).
You really think Beard would come here since he is a former RMK assistant and his team just lost two in a row and scored under 50 in both games.
If Alford was such a great FT teacher then why did is UCLA team shoot free throws worse than we do.
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Yeah I do.
Keatts would be my number one though. He's a Pitino disciple that has been doing miracles at his stops, plus he's got a strong personality to put up with our drama.
He took an under manned NC State team to it's highest finish in years while beating UNC and Duke for the first time in a season in a billion years.
This year in year 2 he's currently 15-3.
He's coaching at a zombie school surrounded by Titans (UNC, Duke and Virginia) and he's injected life into it.
I've always been a Marshall guy but he's getting up there in age.
Marshall was my #1 choice and was not that thrilled with the Archie hire. Saying that it is so ridiculous to be having this discussion this early in his tenure. The two coaches you mentioned could have been said about Archie and his tenure at Dayton so why would you think they would have more success early on than what Archie is doing so far.
Good Lord! People have a right to be mad … 3.5M a year plus to watch garbage basketball. Arch needs to redeem himself fast, and by the way it is coaching and bad recruitment decision … all too familiar.
I agree and I'm not on the fire Archie train....yet.
Plus unlike Crean there is no coaching superstar an hour a way at Butler.
But if Glass goes crazy and cuts Archie (he won't, Archie is his hand picked guy) I hope he makes Keatts say no first.
For better or worse, the process of hiring coaches in major college athletics is very, VERY opaque. In the NFL, they at least report who is being considered and interviewed and all that. But in college sports, it's all done outside any public view or scrutiny. And, amazingly, virtually all of the people who are inside the loop (or at least close to it) are pretty good about keeping their mouths shut.
So we have no idea who was and wasn't contacted, whether directly or indirectly. We have no idea who would or wouldn't have been interested. We can all muse about our wishlist on these boards. But only a select few people actually know just how close to those wishlists the reality actually was.
I've always loved Gregg Marshall's teams, too. Being in Evansville, it was always a treat to watch them once a year against the Aces (when they were still in the MVC). They were always so disciplined and well-coached. Very few mistakes. Efficient. Lockdown D.
But were we interested? Was he? Would he have been if we had been? Who knows?
This is all you need to know about Alford.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cr...eve-alfords-pierre-pierce-iowa-sexual-assault
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cr...eve-alfords-pierre-pierce-iowa-sexual-assault
michigan doesn't have NEARLY the basketball tradition we do? they have played in as many ncaa championship games as indiana, if not more. just haven't won as many. i'd say that's pretty near
Archie is here for awhile, regardless of what everyone thinks. The payout to Crean was $4 million and Archie's contract calls for him to get 100% of his guaranteed money through 2022 and 50% the next two years after. I think that adds up to $13 million. IU is stuck with him.
The point guard is McKinley Wright. He started at Colorado as a freshman. His numbers were good for a freshman point guard in a major conference. This year's are similar, although he's been hurt and DNP'd the last game because he aggravated an injury.
LOL Notice the only like is a UK fan. I would rather root for Purdue than see us hire Steve Alford.
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