Trump speaks the truth this time

[TMFT]

I don’t think he has the self awareness to see that economic gains the first two years of his own administration were largely a continuation of the Obama era gains, but he’s certainly not wrong about Florida.

Truth Social

Truth Social is America's "Big Tent" social media platform that encourages an open, free, and honest global conversation without discriminating on the basis of political ideology.

truthsocial.com

 

[snarlcakes]

I don’t think he has the self awareness to see that economic gains the first two years of his own administration were largely a continuation of the Obama era gains, but he’s certainly not wrong about Florida.

Truth Social

Truth Social is America's "Big Tent" social media platform that encourages an open, free, and honest global conversation without discriminating on the basis of political ideology.

truthsocial.com

Desantis Covid policies are certainly part of the reason Florida is doing well and also helped attract some of the people to move there. I also agree crappy Democrat polices drove people to move to Florida, as well.

Obama policies largely blew a#% for the economy. ACA, his energy policies and regulations were all headwinds for the economy. Not to mention, Obama had TARP and the most accommodating FED (at the time) in history and still produced the slowest recovery in history.

 

[Crayfish57]

Desantis Covid policies are certainly part of the reason Florida is doing well and also helped attract some of the people to move there. I also agree crappy Democrat polices drove people to move to Florida, as well.

Obama policies largely blew a#% for the economy. ACA, his energy policies and regulations were all major headwinds for the economy. Not to mention, Obama had TARP and the most accommodating FED (at the time) in history and still produced the slowest recovery in history.

Liberals need a lot of drawings done very simply to even attempt to actually understand and they still won't.

 

[UncleMark]

Obama policies largely blew a#% for the economy. ACA, his energy policies and regulations were all headwinds for the economy. Not to mention, Obama had TARP and the most accommodating FED (at the time) in history and still produced the slowest recovery in history.

Now you're just being an idiot. The hole Obama was put in was deeper than any we'd seen since the Great Depression. We started climping out of it within six months of his taking office, and the economy climbed steadily the entire time he was in office... and beyond, up until Covid hit.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Now you're just being an idiot. The hole Obama was put in was deeper than any we'd seen since the Great Depression. We started climping out of it within six months of his taking office, and the economy climbed steadily the entire time he was in office... and beyond, up until Covid hit.

I’d take Obama in a heartbeat

 

[IU_Hickory]

Desantis Covid policies are certainly part of the reason Florida is doing well and also helped attract some of the people to move there. I also agree crappy Democrat polices drove people to move to Florida, as well.

Obama policies largely blew a#% for the economy. ACA, his energy policies and regulations were all headwinds for the economy. Not to mention, Obama had TARP and the most accommodating FED (at the time) in history and still produced the slowest recovery in history.

You: Obama took over an awesome economy and left Trump with a dumpster fire.

Truth: there a recession when Obama took office and a good economy when he left.

He must have been a magician to accomplish that while doing all the sucking you claim.

 

[FarvaLarva]

Now you're just being an idiot. The hole Obama was put in was deeper than any we'd seen since the Great Depression. We started climping out of it within six months of his taking office, and the economy climbed steadily the entire time he was in office... and beyond, up until Covid hit.

The economy Obama inherited had could not have possibly been worse. Meaning there was literally no place to go but up. The slow growth rates during his administration are a testament to what Snarl laid out above.

Similarly all Biden had to do was let the economy come out of an artificial Covid coma and he was somehow able to bungle that as well.

 

[IU_Hickory]

The economy Obama inherited had could not have possibly been worse. Meaning there was literally no place to go but up. The slow growth rates during his administration are a testament to what Snarl laid out above.

Similarly all Biden had to do was let the economy come out of an artificial Covid coma and he was somehow able to bungle that as well.

Lol. It could always get worse.

Why didn't it go up for Bush?

Oh wait. Maybe gop policies don't work as well as you think....still waiting for the trickle down joke?

 

[Crayfish57]

Lol. It could always get worse.

Why didn't it go up for Bush?

Oh wait. Maybe gop policies don't work as well as you think....still waiting for the trickle down joke?

You reaching that age where it trickles down your leg after you shake it and fills your shoe?

 

[snarlcakes]

Now you're just being an idiot. The hole Obama was put in was deeper than any we'd seen since the Great Depression. We started climping out of it within six months of his taking office, and the economy climbed steadily the entire time he was in office... and beyond, up until Covid hit.

I’m not Mrs. UncleMark. Pet names and your feelings won’t win me over, just make me blush a little. You didn’t address anything I stated.

Of course the economy grew. You would have to have the worse f#cking polices on the planet for it not to grow with how accommodative the FED was. The point, which you missed, is it was a slow recovery because of Obama’s polices….aka they weren’t really good for the economy.

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

I’m not Mrs. UncleMark. Pet names and your feelings won’t win me over, just make me blush a little. You didn’t address anything I stated.

Of course the economy grew. You would have to have the worse f#cking polices on the planet for it not to grow with how accommodative the FED was. The point, which you missed, is it was a slow recovery because of Obama’s polices….aka they weren’t really good for the economy.

 

[DANC]

I’m not Mrs. UncleMark. Pet names and your feelings won’t win me over, just make me blush a little. You didn’t address anything I stated.

Of course the economy grew. You would have to have the worse f#cking polices on the planet for it not to grow with how accommodative the FED was. The point, which you missed, is it was a slow recovery because of Obama’s polices….aka they weren’t really good for the economy.

You know you're arguing with people who don't understand how economies work, right?

 

[i'vegotwinners]

Desantis Covid policies are certainly part of the reason Florida is doing well and also helped attract some of the people to move there. I also agree crappy Democrat polices drove people to move to Florida, as well.

Obama policies largely blew a#% for the economy. ACA, his energy policies and regulations were all headwinds for the economy. Not to mention, Obama had TARP and the most accommodating FED (at the time) in history and still produced the slowest recovery in history.

Bill Clinton, Pubs, and GWB, literally guaranteed the financial meltdown of 2008 when they removed the barrier between banking and running a casino with bank money. Then using bank/investor money to bet against their own investors, on bets they already knew were guaranteed losers

Obama and GWB then bailed out said bankster criminals 120 cents on the dollar, who committed out and out fraud and stole a trillion from home buyers, pension funds, and people's life savings, while giving the middle finger and a big FU to home owners, pensioners, and the working and middle class..

for all the Pub-Dem fake debates, all US presidents since Ike or maybe LBJ, have been far far far right wing on everything economic, despite wherever they were on social issues.

no president of most of our lifetimes has done anything but F over the working and middle class non stop to benefit the investor/billionaire class.

when the investor/billionaire class can buy whatever govt economic policy they want, they buy it.

 

[BCCHoosier]

Bill Clinton, Pubs, and GWB, literally guaranteed the financial meltdown of 2008 when they removed the barrier between banking and running a casino with bank money.

Obama and GWB bailed out the bankster criminals who committed out and out fraud and stole a trillion from home buyers, pension funds, and people's life savings, while giving the middle finger and a big FU to home owners, pensioners, and the working and middle class..

for all the Pub-Dem fake debates, all US presidents since Ike or maybe LBJ, have been far far far right wing on everything economic, despite wherever they were on social issues.

Agree, but I'm still waiting for more in-depth analysis from Snarl and Dan.

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

Agree

 

[snarlcakes]

for all the Pub-Dem fake debates, all US presidents since Ike or maybe LBJ, have been far far far right wing on everything economic, despite wherever they were on social issues.

Out of curiosity how much do we have to grow the government for it not to be far far far right? Does it have to increase 15x? Do we have to spend 50 percent of GDP on discretionary spending?

How high does the debt/GDP have to be to meet your socialist agenda? 200%? 250%? Is there ever a limit you’ll admit your stupid ideas are wrong and you’re clueless?

 

[TMFT]

I’m not Mrs. UncleMark. Pet names and your feelings won’t win me over, just make me blush a little. You didn’t address anything I stated.

Of course the economy grew. You would have to have the worse f#cking polices on the planet for it not to grow with how accommodative the FED was. The point, which you missed, is it was a slow recovery because of Obama’s polices….aka they weren’t really good for the economy.

How do you explain the growth continuing the Obama trend 2017-2019?

Quite frankly, an economist would tell you that a steady 2.5% growth rate is preferable to boom/bust cycles.

Back to President Trump’s truth though, he’s right that Florida (and the rest of the Sun belt) is seeing population growth driven in large part by the weather. Similarly, it can afford to have no income tax because the billions in sales taxes related to tourism. It’s not some genius play on their part, they’ve been dealt a great hand systemically.

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

How do you explain the growth continuing the Obama trend 2017-2019?

Quite frankly, an economist would tell you that a steady 2.5% growth rate is preferable to boom/bust cycles.

Back to President Trump’s truth though, he’s right that Florida (and the rest of the Sun belt) is seeing population growth driven in large part by the weather. Similarly, it can afford to have no income tax because the billions in sales taxes related to tourism. It’s not some genius play on their part, they’ve been dealt a great hand systemically.

2.1% growth under Obama is the lowest among 11 prior economic expansions and that was coming out of the deepest downturn since the Great Depression.

Some may prefer slow and stable growth, but it hasn't worked out too well for Japan, Europe, etc. which have been struggling as much with deflation as inflation.

Weather and taxes are huge factors in attracting working people to Florida. But, some of that optimism also stemmed from Florida's approach to COVID, among other policies (I'm not advocating for or against). I know several people that moved down during COVID and never went back to NY, NJ or IL.

 

[DANC]

How do you explain the growth continuing the Obama trend 2017-2019?

Quite frankly, an economist would tell you that a steady 2.5% growth rate is preferable to boom/bust cycles.

Back to President Trump’s truth though, he’s right that Florida (and the rest of the Sun belt) is seeing population growth driven in large part by the weather. Similarly, it can afford to have no income tax because the billions in sales taxes related to tourism. It’s not some genius play on their part, they’ve been dealt a great hand systemically.

Does that explain why people are leaving California in droves.

Stay in your socialist lane - economics just isn't your thing.

 

[TMFT]

2.1% growth under Obama is the lowest among 11 prior economic expansions and that was coming out of the deepest downturn since the Great Depression.

Some may prefer slow and stable growth, but it hasn't worked out too well for Japan, Europe, etc. which have been struggling as much with deflation as inflation.

Weather and taxes are huge factors in attracting working people to Florida. But, some of that optimism also stemmed from Florida's approach to COVID, among other policies (I'm not advocating for or against). I know several people that moved down during COVID and never went back to NY, NJ or IL.

Regardless of Obama’s performance record, the fact remains that his “weak” economy was the same trend line as Trump’s “greatest economy the world has ever known.”

GDP growth (annual %) - United States | Data

GDP growth (annual %) - United States from The World Bank: Data

data.worldbank.org

And the Florida growth doesn’t indicate a massive influx inconsistent with past years after adjusting for the big drop in immigration there in 2020.

Florida Population 1900-2022

Chart and table of population level and growth rate for the state of Florida from 1900 to 2022.

www.macrotrends.net

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

Regardless of Obama’s performance record, the fact remains that his “weak” economy was the same trend line as Trump’s “greatest economy the world has ever known.”

I was talking about Obama, not Trump. Trump started out well with a bullishness from the private sector that was missing under Obama. But, his economic plan was riddled with conflicting policy (e.g. tariffs), so it’s not a surprise that it fizzled.

And the Florida growth doesn’t indicate a massive influx inconsistent with past years after adjusting for the big drop in immigration there in 2020.

But again, that was a pretty big pop in 2020. Are you going to dismiss that DeSantis and his policies (regardless of scientific basis) weren’t additive in encouraging such migration?

AZ had similar trends and was always laissez faire about COVID (limited masking, etc.).

GDP growth in Florida significantly outpaced the rest of the country in 2020 and 2021. 2022 looks to be much of the same as we await numbers.

The Economic Estimating Conference expects growth of 6.4 percent in Fiscal Year 2022-23, largely on the continuing strength of salary growth. Thereafter, annual growth rates are expected to remain solidly at or above 4.0 percent

 

[IUCrazy2]

I’d take Obama in a heartbeat

You have Obama right now minus the capability to effectively communicate. If you don't like what Joe is doing, you wouldn't like Obama again either. This administration is full of Obama flunkies and those flunkies are the ones pushing the shit you don't agree with.

Obama could read a speech. Whoopee

 

[mcmurtry66]

You have Obama right now minus the capability to effectively communicate. If you don't like what Joe is doing, you wouldn't like Obama again either. This administration is full of Obama flunkies and those flunkies are the ones pushing the shit you don't agree with.

Obama could read a speech. Whoopee

Always could be worse. Pritzker is talking about running. The man single handedly prevented us from selling our business and sent our buyer into bankruptcy.

Now I have to get up and watch manowarr videos and figure out how to sharpen my blade

 

[twenty02]

You have Obama right now minus the capability to effectively communicate. If you don't like what Joe is doing, you wouldn't like Obama again either. This administration is full of Obama flunkies and those flunkies are the ones pushing the shit you don't agree with.

Obama could read a speech. Whoopee

So your position is that it doesn't really matter who has the top job?

 

[DANC]

So your position is that it doesn't really matter who has the top job?

Did you forget Biden was Obama's VP?

 

[TMFT]

I was talking about Obama, not Trump. Trump started out well with a bullishness from the private sector that was missing under Obama. But, his economic plan was riddled with conflicting policy (e.g. tariffs), so it’s not a surprise that it fizzled.



But again, that was a pretty big pop in 2020. Are you going to dismiss that DeSantis and his policies (regardless of scientific basis) weren’t additive in encouraging such migration?

AZ had similar trends and was always laissez faire about COVID (limited masking, etc.).

GDP growth in Florida significantly outpaced the rest of the country in 2020 and 2021. 2022 looks to be much of the same as we await numbers.

The Economic Estimating Conference expects growth of 6.4 percent in Fiscal Year 2022-23, largely on the continuing strength of salary growth. Thereafter, annual growth rates are expected to remain solidly at or above 4.0 percent

You may have not been talking about Trump, but others certainly do. Particularly commenters who act like the Trump economy was somehow an explosion after Obama malaise. And specifically, it wasn't just bullishness, it was major deficit spending to pump up an already humming economy, so I don't think we got the bang for the buck.

And no, I don't think Desantis's COVID policy was a major cause for people moving to Florida, that was my whole thesis of this thread. The last three years on that chart have an average annual growth rate of 1.15%. The three preceding years had an average annual growth rate of 1.38%.

Similarly, with the number of retirees moving to Florida because of weather, I'd hope the economy would be going gangbusters. All of the tourism with retirees moving in spending savings & social security money, not using public services like education, and overall contributing to the economy by spending but not competing for jobs. It'd be a stunner if they didn't. Same for Arizona. The better comparison for your argument would be look at COVID cavalier states like Iowa. They saw a big population increase in 2020 because people WEREN'T moving out and have seen their growth rates return to the mean since. If it were about COVID policy, Iowa should see the same trends as Florida & Arizona. But it didn't. Because it's about climate, not COVID.

 

[twenty02]

Did you forget Biden was Obama's VP?

No what's your point? Crazy says it doesn't matter, they are all the same staff, same policies, just that Obama was a better communicator than Biden.

 

[DANC]

No what's your point? Crazy says it doesn't matter, they are all the same staff, same policies, just that Obama was a better communicator than Biden.

Yes, he's right - it doesn't matter between Biden and Obama.

What's your point?

 

[mcmurtry66]

You may have not been talking about Trump, but others certainly do. Particularly commenters who act like the Trump economy was somehow an explosion after Obama malaise. And specifically, it wasn't just bullishness, it was major deficit spending to pump up an already humming economy, so I don't think we got the bang for the buck.

And no, I don't think Desantis's COVID policy was a major cause for people moving to Florida, that was my whole thesis of this thread. The last three years on that chart have an average annual growth rate of 1.15%. The three preceding years had an average annual growth rate of 1.38%.

Similarly, with the number of retirees moving to Florida because of weather, I'd hope the economy would be going gangbusters. All of the tourism with retirees moving in spending savings & social security money, not using public services like education, and overall contributing to the economy by spending but not competing for jobs. It'd be a stunner if they didn't. Same for Arizona. The better comparison for your argument would be look at COVID cavalier states like Iowa. They saw a big population increase in 2020 because people WEREN'T moving out and have seen their growth rates return to the mean since. If it were about COVID policy, Iowa should see the same trends as Florida & Arizona. But it didn't. Because it's about climate, not COVID.

Desantis’ Covid policies absolutely played a role in population growth. What’s more it played a role in attracting business. There are no less than a thousand articles citing companies relocating to fla. Fla was the fastest growing state since the first time in like the 40s or 50s

 

[TMFT]

Desantis’ Covid policies absolutely played a role in population growth. What’s more it played a role in attracting business. There are no less than a thousand articles citing companies relocating to fla. Fla was the fastest growing state since the first time in like the 40s or 50s

You all & a thousand articles can say it, but the population chart doesn't reflect it. 2022 is the biggest increase since 2016 & 2017 but comes on the heels of an artificially muted 2020 because COVID delayed plans for a lot of people. There is literally nothing out of the ordinary so far. I could fully end up being wrong on this. Calendar a check on the population chart in 3 years and we'll see if FL is persistently pulling growth rates north of 2%. I'm skeptical it will.

Florida - Historical Population Data
Year	Population	Growth Rate
2022	22,244,823	1.91%
2021	21,828,069	1.10%
2020	21,589,602	0.45%
2019	21,492,056	1.12%
2018	21,254,926	1.32%
2017	20,977,089	1.70%
2016	20,627,237	2.02%
2015	20,219,111	1.84%
2014	19,853,880	1.55%
2013	19,551,678	1.29%
2012	19,302,016	1.29%
2011	19,055,607	1.11%
2010	18,846,143	1.04%
2009	18,652,644	0.68%
2008	18,527,305	0.87%
2007	18,367,842	1.11%
2006	18,166,990	1.82%
2005	17,842,038	2.45%
2004	17,415,318	2.42%
2003	17,004,085	1.89%
2002	16,689,370	2.03%
2001	16,356,966	1.93%
2000	16,047,515	6.20%

 

[twenty02]

Yes, he's right - it doesn't matter between Biden and Obama.

What's your point?

I just asked him the question. Simple as that

 

[mcmurtry66]

You all & a thousand articles can say it, but the population chart doesn't reflect it. 2022 is the biggest increase since 2016 & 2017 but comes on the heels of an artificially muted 2020 because COVID delayed plans for a lot of people. There is literally nothing out of the ordinary so far. I could fully end up being wrong on this. Calendar a check on the population chart in 3 years and we'll see if FL is persistently pulling growth rates north of 2%. I'm skeptical it will.

Florida - Historical Population Data
Year	Population	Growth Rate
2022	22,244,823	1.91%
2021	21,828,069	1.10%
2020	21,589,602	0.45%
2019	21,492,056	1.12%
2018	21,254,926	1.32%
2017	20,977,089	1.70%
2016	20,627,237	2.02%
2015	20,219,111	1.84%
2014	19,853,880	1.55%
2013	19,551,678	1.29%
2012	19,302,016	1.29%
2011	19,055,607	1.11%
2010	18,846,143	1.04%
2009	18,652,644	0.68%
2008	18,527,305	0.87%
2007	18,367,842	1.11%
2006	18,166,990	1.82%
2005	17,842,038	2.45%
2004	17,415,318	2.42%
2003	17,004,085	1.89%
2002	16,689,370	2.03%
2001	16,356,966	1.93%
2000	16,047,515	6.20%

But you need to compare to other states. They saw declines or were stagnant while fla grew. Again fla was the fastest growing state for the first time in like 70 plus years.

And you left out the business growth. Fla is absolutely booming and Desantis played a role in that. People were fed up with the lockdown bs. So while Calif and other places were flat fla grew. Faster than anywhere.

Have you been to south fla lately? It’s awful. Wrong time of day will take you two hours to get from ft Lauderdale to wpb.

So many finance and tech companies have moved to Miami.

 

[IUCrazy2]

So your position is that it doesn't really matter who has the top job?

My position is that if the two people that have the top job have the same underlings actually running the government, that you effectively have similar leadership. Run through Joe's administration and it has Obama era folks at all levels. I question how much of the final decider Biden is, but I think he is being fed similar programs and similar information to what Obama would have been fed and that the decisions he is making are the same ones Obama would have been making.

The person at the top matters to a degree. They tend to bring the people that set the policy course and they are supposed to be the final decider, so there would be a big difference between a Biden and an DeSantis. Where there isn't a big difference is between an Obama and a Biden. Obama would make you feel better by not sounding like a guy whose old age is REALLY impacting him, but the policies would be mostly the same.

 

[twenty02]

But you need to compare to other states. They saw declines or were stagnant while fla grew. Again fla was the fastest growing state for the first time in like 70 plus years.

And you left out the business growth. Fla is absolutely booming and Desantis played a role in that. People were fed up with the lockdown bs. So while Calif and other places were flat fla grew. Faster than anywhere.

Have you been to south fla lately? It’s awful. Wrong time of day will take you two hours to get from ft Lauderdale to wpb.

So many finance and tech companies have moved to Miami.

People having been migrating west and south for a long time. None of this is new.

Fastest Growing States 2024

 

[mcmurtry66]

People having been migrating west and south for a long time. None of this is new.

Fastest Growing States 2024

And for the first time in 75 years fla was the fastest growing state.

 

[twenty02]

And for the first time in 75 years fla was the fastest growing state.

Boomers are hitting the retirement bulge, not really surprising. Both my parents and my in laws are there right now, different spots. I can't stand the obscene traffic and crowds.

I prefer SC.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Boomers are hitting the retirement bulge, not really surprising. Both my parents and my in laws are there right now, different spots. I can't stand the obscene traffic and crowds.

I prefer SC.

Businesses too. I prefer SC too at this point. Although even that is getting nutty. I have a bunch of friends who live in mount pleasant. Home prices have skyrocketed there too

Why Are So Many Companies Moving to Florida? | Business.com

Many established companies of all sizes have decided to make Florida their home. Learn why companies are moving to Florida and how to make the move.

www.business.com

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

You may have not been talking about Trump, but others certainly do. Particularly commenters who act like the Trump economy was somehow an explosion after Obama malaise. And specifically, it wasn't just bullishness, it was major deficit spending to pump up an already humming economy, so I don't think we got the bang for the buck.

Most serious posters would agree we didn't get the bang for the buck. They'd also agree that contradictory policy is going to hamper growth. I have always been critical of economic growth under BO, though. Trump has nothing to do with that.

Similarly, with the number of retirees moving to Florida because of weather, I'd hope the economy would be going gangbusters. All of the tourism with retirees moving in spending savings & social security money, not using public services like education, and overall contributing to the economy by spending but not competing for jobs. It'd be a stunner if they didn't. Same for Arizona. The better comparison for your argument would be look at COVID cavalier states like Iowa. They saw a big population increase in 2020 because people WEREN'T moving out and have seen their growth rates return to the mean since. If it were about COVID policy, Iowa should see the same trends as Florida & Arizona. But it didn't. Because it's about climate, not COVID.

It's a bit of both though. California has a great climate in many respects and it's losing people for various reasons. If Florida was run like California, perhaps it would also be losing people.

Living in Iowa is probably worse than death, if we are being honest. At least use a state with something worthwhile, such as MT, ID, etc.

You all & a thousand articles can say it, but the population chart doesn't reflect it. 2022 is the biggest increase since 2016 & 2017 but comes on the heels of an artificially muted 2020 because COVID delayed plans for a lot of people. There is literally nothing out of the ordinary so far. I could fully end up being wrong on this. Calendar a check on the population chart in 3 years and we'll see if FL is persistently pulling growth rates north of 2%. I'm skeptical it will.

Everything is relative. It was the fastest growing state in the country. Think about that when you contrast that against its average age (4th or 5th oldest). That means the replacement factor is immense.

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

Boomers are hitting the retirement bulge, not really surprising. Both my parents and my in laws are there right now, different spots. I can't stand the obscene traffic and crowds.

I prefer SC.

They're also dying at unprecedented rates. There's a shit ton of people that moved and are looking to move to FL, even on the younger side.

Traffic is bad anywhere these days. Chicago traffic is worse than pre-COVID.

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

I prefer SC.

Tons of people moving there too. The problem with SC is you get annoying Ohioans and Pennsylvannians moving down there and ruining it.

Greenville and Charleston are both great and I've thought about each as a potential destination.