Tronti Gone

[RBB89]

It just always seems to be “next year” for us.

Last year it was “Well we have Tronti, the FL Mr FB waiting in the wings”

This year it will be Penix.

What next? Will it ever work out?

What exactly is the issue here? We have a grad transfer senior, a RS Soph who started multiple games, a 4 star freshman who is already practicing with the team, and a freshman ATH who could end up at QB down the road.

That’s a solid group with experience and guys you can develop. What’s your beef? I like Tronti, but I suspect we won’t hear much from him again.

 

[Bowlmania]

I just wish the guy could win some football games.

I know, I know, we beat Illinois and Rutgers. I just wish we could beat some mid level teams too.

Well, in his first season, his wins total was just one shy of his predecessor's all-time best. Might want to give it some time, fella.

I know, I know, you just like being negative.

 

[Chriselli]

ARE did not redshirt. He was a Prop 48 partial qualifier. The last four star quarterback to sign with Indiana was Earl Hanniford who was Mr. Football from Martinsville.

 

[fpeaugh]

What exactly is the issue here? We have a grad transfer senior, a RS Soph who started multiple games, a 4 star freshman who is already practicing with the team, and a freshman ATH who could end up at QB down the road.

That’s a solid group with experience and guys you can develop. What’s your beef? I like Tronti, but I suspect we won’t hear much from him again.

I forgot the current group turns out then it’s no big deal. But if they don’t and this time next year we’re still saying “Wait til “insert next guy’s name” takes over” then it’s just a revolving door.

I do think we’ll be ok at QB for at least this year.

 

[fpeaugh]

Well, in his first season, his wins total was just one shy of his predecessor's all-time best. Might want to give it some time, fella.

I know, I know, you just like being negative.

Well one game can mean a lot in college football. Hopefully he improves this year. Not making bowls just isn’t going to cut it anymore.

 

[cshartle123]

I just wish the guy could win some football games.

I know, I know, we beat Illinois and Rutgers. I just wish we could beat some mid level teams too.

I’m with you, but I also appreciate the positive steps. Allen will need a lot more of these steps to last in this league.

 

[Crimson Crush]

Well one game can mean a lot in college football. Hopefully he improves this year. Not making bowls just isn’t going to cut it anymore.

I think Allen knows things have to improve and he appears to be doing some of the things we didn’t do in the past to try and speed up the success rate. The QB situation with Dawkins is one example. I’d be shocked and disappointed if our defense ever dips down to the levels of 2011-2015. I think Allen has set the bar there. I think that is the cultural identity he wants to maintain in the program. We just need better OL play and recruiting to keep up on that side of the ball.
Allen also seems to place a premium on special teams with active recruiting of punters and kickers who are actually awarded scholarships incoming. Not an afterthought.

 

[IUCol]

I think Allen knows things have to improve and he appears to be doing some of the things we didn’t do in the past to try and speed up the success rate. The QB situation with Dawkins is one example. I’d be shocked and disappointed if our defense ever dips down to the levels of 2011-2015. I think Allen has set the bar there. I think that is the cultural identity he wants to maintain in the program. We just need better OL play and recruiting to keep up on that side of the ball.
Allen also seems to place a premium on special teams with active recruiting of punters and kickers who are actually awarded scholarships incoming. Not an afterthought.

I don't disagree so much as I think it needs reminding that setting the "bar" as the cliché goes is all well and good...the problem comes in trying to get your players to consistently cross over it, or recruit the talent capable of maintaining that desired level of excellence. I do not believe we are there yet. This year looks to be a rebuilding year. Even with the talent and experience of last seasons defense we did not push the bar higher but actually fell off a bit. The point being that patience is still the word of the day. We may slump a few times before building the talent and culture required to say we have a solid defensive program. I hope we get there...but we have not arrived. We're still a wannabe...but we are making progress and that is something we couldn't say for decades.

That looks like up to me...

 

[Superstar84b]

I don't disagree so much as I think it needs reminding that setting the "bar" as the cliché goes is all well and good...the problem comes in trying to get your players to consistently cross over it, or recruit the talent capable of maintaining that desired level of excellence. I do not believe we are there yet. This year looks to be a rebuilding year. Even with the talent and experience of last seasons defense we did not push the bar higher but actually fell off a bit. The point being that patience is still the word of the day. We may slump a few times before building the talent and culture required to say we have a solid defense program. I hope we get there...but we have not arrived. We're still a wannabe...but we are making progress and that is something we couldn't say for decades.

That looks like up to me...

I agree. Wilson changed the program attitude and made IU competitive. The back to back bowls got IU out of the Big Ten basement, and led to some prime time games. I think that Allen is continuing the process. However, I agree that the team has not arrived and that patience is key. I think Allen has signed one of the best recruiting classes in IU history (not based on rankings, but on how the players fit the program + height, weight and speed). But even with the talent he’s brought in, it will take them time to mature. Even if Penix is a star, he could be a red shirt junior before he truly plays at a championship level. So I think it’s possible to have high expectations AND be patient at the same time. I don’t think it’s mutually exclusive. My view is that this team is 3 years out from being really good.

 

[Crimson Crush]

I agree. Wilson changed the program attitude and made IU competitive. The back to back bowls got IU out of the Big Ten basement, and led to some prime time games. I think that Allen is continuing the process. However, I agree that the team has not arrived and that patience is key. I think Allen has signed one of the best recruiting classes in IU history (not based on rankings, but on how the players fit the program + height, weight and speed). But even with the talent he’s brought in, it will take them time to mature. Even if Penix is a star, he could be a red shirt junior before he truly plays at a championship level. So I think it’s possible to have high expectations AND be patient at the same time. I don’t think it’s mutually exclusive. My view is that this team is 3 years out from being really good.

We may be 3 years out from being “really good” but I don’t think that means we shouldn’t at least qualify for bowls in the interim. I think most fans view progress as getting to that post season before 3 more years are up. That means: this staff will be judged on winning many of those 50/50 ball games. I don’t think our staff can afford to lose too many of the toss-up games in their tenure. That would place this idea in heads that we don’t have the coaching to figure out how to win some games where we are evenly matched on paper. To me, that is the key as opposed to beating the programs with better personnel.
Our staff has to be able to do that to survive.

 

[Hausta01]

I don't disagree so much as I think it needs reminding that setting the "bar" as the cliché goes is all well and good...the problem comes in trying to get your players to consistently cross over it, or recruit the talent capable of maintaining that desired level of excellence. I do not believe we are there yet. This year looks to be a rebuilding year. Even with the talent and experience of last seasons defense we did not push the bar higher but actually fell off a bit. The point being that patience is still the word of the day. We may slump a few times before building the talent and culture required to say we have a solid defense program. I hope we get there...but we have not arrived. We're still a wannabe...but we are making progress and that is something we couldn't say for decades.

That looks like up to me...

By advanced metrics IU's defense was better in 2017 than 2016. It was only slightly better, but still better. That included the offense getting significantly worse over the same time-frame. Impressive results to be sure.

https://www.footballstudyhall.com/pages/2016-indiana-advanced-statistical-profile

 

[IUCol]

I agree. Wilson changed the program attitude and made IU competitive. The back to back bowls got IU out of the Big Ten basement, and led to some prime time games. I think that Allen is continuing the process. However, I agree that the team has not arrived and that patience is key. I think Allen has signed one of the best recruiting classes in IU history (not based on rankings, but on how the players fit the program + height, weight and speed). But even with the talent he’s brought in, it will take them time to mature. Even if Penix is a star, he could be a red shirt junior before he truly plays at a championship level. So I think it’s possible to have high expectations AND be patient at the same time. I don’t think it’s mutually exclusive. My view is that this team is 3 years out from being really good.

Excellent post all the way around. No disagreements here. I know I sound jaded some times but in my heart I believe winning at IU can be done...but the path is narrow with steep ravines on either side. Its more probable we will fall back to the bottom than make the climb out of danger...but I will hold on to the thread of hope that what was need not be what is...but the ride will be bumpy...

My advise folks...strap in...vbg

 

[IUCol]

By advanced metrics IU's defense was better in 2017 than 2016. It was only slightly better, but still better. That included the offense getting significantly worse over the same time-frame. Impressive results to be sure.

https://www.footballstudyhall.com/pages/2016-indiana-advanced-statistical-profile

No insult intended at all...but if only numbers were the real world. I am well versed in statistics...my career required it...and I can tell you conclusively that numbers do lie...vbg.

The map is not the terrain.

They did not pass the eyeball test at all...that's the only metric that counts. Good defense don't need the offense for an excuse.

 

[IUCol]

We may be 3 years out from being “really good” but I don’t think that means we shouldn’t at least qualify for bowls in the interim. I think most fans view progress as getting to that post season before 3 more years are up. That means: this staff will be judged on winning many of those 50/50 ball games. I don’t think our staff can afford to lose too many of the toss-up games in their tenure. That would place this idea in heads that we don’t have the coaching to figure out how to win some games where we are evenly matched on paper. To me, that is the key as opposed to beating the programs with better personnel.
Our staff has to be able to do that to survive.

A couple of things...I think a building process must include a few bowl games and at least a win or two in a bowl.

As for toss-up games that is a much more complex matrix. I guess you could boil it all off to the essence and say I guess its who those games are against. If your'e saying we need to beat OSU and UM in all these tight games, or even most of them, you are better off wishing for a visit from the tooth fairy tonight. It aint going to happen, now or later. But if youre saying we need to win the tight games with teams of equal talent, then, well, yeah, that would be nice and a sign we are moving out of the "equal" status...ie, moving upward. I think the key to future success for IU Fb is NOT getting into tight games.

Let's win it clear in the fourth quarter. Then you can be sure we are "moving up".

Imo...vbg...

 

[Hausta01]

No insult intended at all...but if only numbers were the real world. I am well versed in statistics...my career required it...and I can tell you conclusively that numbers do lie...vbg.

The map is not the terrain.

They did not pass the eyeball test at all...that's the only metric that counts. Good defense don't need the offense for an excuse.

Numbers can be made to lie, sure. But relying on statistics is much more reliable than the ever so popular "eye-test." Your experience with statistics is irrelevant when you don't use them.

A good offense helps a defense by giving it rest, putting the defense in optimal positions, etc. Look at the 2016 version of the Dallas Cowboys, that defense out-performed expectation and talent at nearly every level. It's offense limited the defense's exposure by controlling field position and time of possession.

Claiming those two sides of the ball aren't related diminishes the perceived value of your eye-test.

 

[Bowlmania]

We may be 3 years out from being “really good” but I don’t think that means we shouldn’t at least qualify for bowls in the interim. I think most fans view progress as getting to that post season before 3 more years are up. That means: this staff will be judged on winning many of those 50/50 ball games. I don’t think our staff can afford to lose too many of the toss-up games in their tenure. That would place this idea in heads that we don’t have the coaching to figure out how to win some games where we are evenly matched on paper. To me, that is the key as opposed to beating the programs with better personnel.
Our staff has to be able to do that to survive.

Agreed. That "we've finally arrived" season is likely a few years off, but we need to go bowling this year in order to maintain the recruiting momentum we've got going and the optimistic "new era" perspective that a new coach typically enjoys for a couple of seasons. The schedule lines up well for a six win season this year, with seven home games (including five conference home games) and a couple of road games that provide excellent opportunities for Ws.

Call me crazy but, with the exception of Ohio State (and I'm glad we're not wasting a home date with them this year), I'm not willing to concede any game to any team. We beat Michigan State a couple of years back, two of our last three games against Michigan have been overtime losses (and the third game was just a 10 point loss at their place), and we were ahead of Penn State and Saquon Barkley in '16 with four minutes left in the game.

We can - - and need to - - go bowling this season. 5-7 or worse would be a significant setback for the program.

 

[DANC]

Agreed. That "we've finally arrived" season is likely a few years off, but we need to go bowling this year in order to maintain the recruiting momentum we've got going and the optimistic "new era" perspective that a new coach typically enjoys for a couple of seasons. The schedule lines up well for a six win season this year, with seven home games (including five conference home games) and a couple of road games that provide excellent opportunities for Ws.

Call me crazy but, with the exception of Ohio State (and I'm glad we're not wasting a home date with them this year), I'm not willing to concede any game to any team. We beat Michigan State a couple of years back, two of our last three games against Michigan have been overtime losses (and the third game was just a 10 point loss at their place), and we were ahead of Penn State and Saquon Barkley in '16 with four minutes left in the game.

We can - - and need to - - go bowling this season. 5-7 or worse would be a significant setback for the program.

Every year - EVERY year - we have people who think we have a chance against PSU. "Because 2 years ago, we were close....".

It's nice to have optimism, but reality is what it is. We've won once in 25+ years. We got drilled last year.

 

[Crimson Crush]

I felt the defense had a bit of a drop-off last year. Statistics may paint an overall picture of a collection of games but it doesn’t capture key moments that can turn a season. That’s where our defense, while improved, needs to get to: a critical misread in OT allows a Michigan RB to bounce off a tackle for loss and go for the winning TD.
We turn in a shutout against Rutgers in a monsoon and are all over the field. We turn around the next week at Purdue and have our veteran LBs out in space getting run around and run through.

That is the key here: week-in, week-out consistent performance. We do that and we go from a #30-40 ranked defense to inside the top 20, IMO.

I see us bowling this year because we have enough sophomores, redshirt frosh and juniors on the roster with significant playing time. The injuries last year depleted some of our better talent pool. In other words, I think we have enough kids that didn’t play last year that bring more upside on both sides of the ball.

 

[Bowlmania]

Every year - EVERY year - we have people who think we have a chance against PSU. "Because 2 years ago, we were close....".

It's nice to have optimism, but reality is what it is. We've won once in 25+ years. We got drilled last year.

Oh, ok. They may fall back just a bit with their All-World RB and others including Gesicki and DaeSean Hamilton (both Barkley and Hamilton burned us last year) off to the NFL and their offensive coordinator off to Mississippi State, but let's just forfeit that home game.
P.S. The capital letters are kind of annoying. No need to scream.

 

[DANC]

Oh, ok. They may fall back just a bit with their All-World RB and others including Gesicki and DaeSean Hamilton (both Barkley and Hamilton burned us last year) off to the NFL and their offensive coordinator off to Mississippi State, but let's just forfeit that home game.
P.S. The capital letters are kind of annoying. No need to scream.

I'm not coming down on you. But this board has a tendency every year to want to put PSU in the Win column. And they have the same talent an O$U does. And their coaching is top notch.

We play them tough sometimes. We've always played some teams tough. But they hardly ever transfer to wins.

We always played Barkley tough and held him well below his average. But the QB always looks all world against us and makes some amazing plays. Sure, they lose some talent, but they bring another 4 or 5 star off the bench.

Not saying we can't beat them. But I don't think the fans put them on the same level as an O$U or Wisconsin or even Michigan. And they are every bit at that level, talent and coaching wise.

 

[turney333]

Every year - EVERY year - we have people who think we have a chance against PSU. "Because 2 years ago, we were close....".

It's nice to have optimism, but reality is what it is. We've won once in 25+ years. We got drilled last year.

We only got drilled after a bunch of 1st quarter mistakes on our end, that were uncharacteristic even for IU last year. And PSU's talent was really only the difference maker in capitalizing on one of those mistakes - Barkley's opening kickoff return. Though in all, we essentially spotted PSU 28 pts.

I'm not coming down on you. But this board has a tendency every year to want to put PSU in the Win column. And they have the same talent an O$U does. And their coaching is top notch.

We play them tough sometimes. We've always played some teams tough. But they hardly ever transfer to wins.

We always played Barkley tough and held him well below his average. But the QB always looks all world against us and makes some amazing plays. Sure, they lose some talent, but they bring another 4 or 5 star off the bench.

Not saying we can't beat them. But I don't think the fans put them on the same level as an O$U or Wisconsin or even Michigan. And they are every bit at that level, talent and coaching wise.

I don't think anyone is putting PSU in the win column, just saying that the game shouldn't be written off, at least at home. I'd certainly put them on the level of Wisconsin/Mich, maybe even a half step ahead, but they are a solid step behind OSU, which is the game everyone is writing off.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

We only got drilled after a bunch of 1st quarter mistakes on our end, that were uncharacteristic even for IU last year. And PSU's talent was really only the difference maker in capitalizing on one of those mistakes - Barkley's opening kickoff return. Though in all, we essentially spotted PSU 28 pts.


I don't think anyone is putting PSU in the win column, just saying that the game shouldn't be written off, at least at home. I'd certainly put them on the level of Wisconsin/Mich, maybe even a half step ahead, but they are a solid step behind OSU, which is the game everyone is writing off.

that 1st quarter was kind of like Sergio's 13 at the 15th at Augusta, which kind of skewed everything else out of perspective.

if you watched the game, the teams looked far more evenly matched than the score indicated.

as an old fart, i've seen us get dominated physically.

we weren't dominated that game, other than the score, which can and does happen every so often in football more so than other sports, due to big plays and turnovers sometimes having a disproportional effect on the score in fball relative to other sports...