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Things will get interesting in Atlanta

Not commenting on the shooting at all, tired of that tail chasing argument for now, but did have a thought on this specific question you have asked several times. I believe that yes, he would have been en route to commit more criminal activity because he probably would have gotten back into his car to drive home. He did not pull into the Wendy's to "sleep it off". He was in the drive thru lane trying to get food and he passed out drunk so that cars were having to go around him. That is why the police were called initially. Given that, I think it is reasonable to believe that he probably would have had no qualms about getting back in his car to try and drive home drunk.

And yes, that applies equally to the guy driving home bombed from the Elks Club too.

Kind of my point. How does he get back into his car, since you know, the cops are there? That was my point- he's running away from his car and likely just wants to go home. How does that translate into going out to "engage in additional criminal activities"? That's why I brought up the fact that he told the cops he "just wanted to go home".

IMO, saying that implies that he was just out "looking for mischief" rather than just slightly drunk and hungry. To me, that requires a huge leap since there were NO Warrants and he had not been arrested in several years...Again they had NO REASON to arrest him in the first place, other than the fact that he was a "suspected DUI". That is why they had to call a field sobriety officer, which would NOT have been necessary if he was engaging in "criminal activity" beyond the scope of a DUI which would have made him suspect to arrest or even suspicion...

Posters here seem to be ascribing suspicions to Brooks that the officers did not seem to have. In my experience, officers don't usually allow people who they suspect of being drunk to personally move and park their car. My brother was within 5 feet of his own driveway and the officer was so pissed off by his attitude that he purposely refused to allow him to park the car where it wouldn't need to be towed.
 
I don’t disagree with you, but your statement seems short sided, no?
We want the police to behave properly. We want police to pick up the garbage and dispose of it properly on a daily basis.

Is this zero tolerance? Do the vast majority, over 99% of interactions with police go as planned or without incident?

Have we sensationalized the 1%
To paraphrase Chris Rock, we don't accept "a few bad apples" in airline pilots...we shouldn't accept that from people with guns and badges.
 
.....so he could wake up from his drunken stupor, get his old fashioned burgers and drive off drunk into the night?

Dude, there are instances where cops bang on the window of a car someone is sleeping in, never check them out and they end up being someone who was a serious offender with warrants. It's even happened regarding a couple of mass shooters...

Mr. Brooks was slightly inebriated, had been run for warrants, and was "so drunk" and posed such a threat that the cops allowed him to move and park his own vehicle. Now since he didn't want to be arrested, you're somehow implying that because he tried to escape he was intent on going on a crime spree?
 
Funny, you can think that about me for some posts on a message board, but the child beating, cop assaulting drunk driver deserves to live. Your anger is misplaced...don’t be such an emotional little girl.

Dude I've looked at his record. I see a charge of child abuse, but I don't see he was sentenced or even went to court. If you have a link showing his actual guilt you need to post it. Otherwise, you are posting what may or may not be true and accurate...

Btw the wingnut blogger whose link I followed actually had him listed as RAGSHARD Brooks. The name Rayshard is not exactly a unique name in the AA community. So people need to be very accurate when you are supposedly referring to someone's "police record" and make sure you are identifying the correct person and their record...
 
Dude, there are instances where cops bang on the window of a car someone is sleeping in, never check them out and they end up being someone who was a serious offender with warrants. It's even happened regarding a couple of mass shooters...

Mr. Brooks was slightly inebriated, had been run for warrants, and was "so drunk" and posed such a threat that the cops allowed him to move and park his own vehicle. Now since he didn't want to be arrested, you're somehow implying that because he tried to escape he was intent on going on a crime spree?
Brooks was on probation. He ran because he knew if he were arrested he’d go back to jail.

Also, he blew a .108 on the breathalyzer. .008 is the legal limit.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.da...probation-faced-going-prison-charged-DUI.html
 
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Well, a few things:

(1) This thread is rampant with folks drawing conclusions first and citing facts that support their conclusions after drawing their conclusions. Goat, I think you're pretty much the only one who is trying to understand the facts first, then try to attain some balanced understanding of those facts . . . everybody else . . . not so much.

(2) One side cites the fact that Brooks had a prior felony conviction, blew a 1.08 breathalyzer on the night of his death, resisted arrest, stole a taser and then shot the taser at the police officer who ended up killing him as definitive proof that the guy deserved what he got. The other side cites Officer Rolfe's 12 incidents on his employment disciplinary record as definitive proof that the cop had not business being on the street. None of this is dispositive of anything . . . it's all just evidence that goes into the soup that will be presented to a jury, unless there's a plea deal reached prior to trial.

(3) Paul Howard, the Fulton County DA, is under political pressure, as he's in a tough reelection campaign and he's being investigated by the GBI, plus he has some sticky sexual abuse allegations pending: https://www.gpbnews.org/post/gbi-la...tigation-allegations-against-fulton-county-da. Howard operates in a county that is predominantly black in one part - primarily the city of Atlanta - and predominantly white in the northern reaches of the county. He's in for a tough race, facing a runoff in the primary against a competent competitor. I think a jury will see where Howard overreaches in the charges and legal arguments . . . the fact that Howard is facing political pressure means not much, IMO.

(4) When it all comes out in the wash, Rolfe's claim of self-defense depends on whether the taser possessed and shot at Rolfe by Brooks is a weapon of which Rolfe could reasonably be in fear for his life. Stelios' admitted blood-lust and the spittle on Hoopsdoc's chin in this thread pretty much disqualify anything they say from consideration as having no credibility. But the mere fact of the taser is enough to merit a closer look . . . .

(5) The thing is, we don't know much about the taser. We don't know what level of power it had to know whether it's potentially lethal. We don't know whether it had one or two darts, whether the ammunition that the taser possessed had been fully deployed when Rolfe shot Brooks in the back, and we don't know what Rolfe knew about the taser and its status when he shot Brooks. Delving into the training Rolfe received regarding the taser and its use seems to be a worthy line of questions to pursue . . . . What did he know about the potential lethality of the taser? What did he know about reloading the taser, and the likelihood of Brooks being able to do so when he shot Brooks? What did he know about the deployment of the taser's ammunition when he shot Brooks?

(6) Absent some very favorable questions regarding his knowledge about the taser, Rolfe's shooting of Brooks looks bad based on the facts specific to and ancillary to the shooting. First, Rolfe shot Brooks in the back. Well, that might be a case of bad timing, where Brooks turned his back to Rolfe just as Rolfe fired his weapon . . . kind of like the penalties on kickoffs where the defender turns his back to a blocker just as the hit is being made; if it's against our team we bitch about it, and if it's in favor of our team we say "damn right". So that alone doesn't get me to a conviction, but it sets up the argument for other facts to consider . . . such as Rolfe kicking Brooks while Brooks is on the ground dying, and the two officers not providing immediate first aid to Brooks while Brooks is dying . . . Howard said that the officers didn't start first aid until 2 minutes after Brooks was on the ground . . . that can easily be construed as evidence of intent to harm Brooks, which buttresses a felony murder charge . . . not good for Rolfe or the other officer.

(7) As to Brooks' motivation for running, the fact is that he didn't want to go back to jail. But the reason he didn't want to go back to jail is fairly telling . . . he didn't want to be treated as an animal. https://people.com/crime/rayshard-b...d-being-treated-like-animals-law-enforcement/. IMO, that's a potentially fruitful line of inquiry regarding police policy: Are police trained and conditioned to treat the public they encounter like things instead of like human beings? Is that where policing in the US has gone off the rails? Put a different way, is it better to have as a police officer a former high school defensive tackle whose primary qualification for the job is that he can intimidate and manhandle the people he encounters, or is it better to have a police officer who can read people and figure out how to solve the immediate problem without having to resort to intimidation/manhandling? My reading of BLM is that, at the root of all this, all anyone is asking for is to be treated like a human being rather than a thing.
 
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To paraphrase Chris Rock, we don't accept "a few bad apples" in airline pilots...we shouldn't accept that from people with guns and badges.
How much to airline pilots get paid? How many hours do they work a month? How much training do they have to have before they're qualified to fly?

How much would taxes have to go up to pay for police who can fulfill the qualifications that your implied standards would require?

BTW, I'm not opposed to your suggestion, but I am also aware of how hard of a time the Atlanta police were having filling vacancies long before George Floyd or Rayshard Brooks were killed. One of my sons' best friend in high school considered applying for the Atlanta police force . . . and I feared for him and the community because the kid has a no fear bouncer's mentality. Rugby wasn't a rough enough sport to challenge him . . .

. . . fortunately he washed out of Cobb County's police academy and now is very happy working in a big box store as a department manager . . . .
 
CNN also reported the same thing
Horrible morale in the Atlanta police is not a new story . . . see my response to thezinfan1 above.

Maybe you should have cited CNN rather than Steve Deace. At least CNN has a patina of being a professional news organization . . . Deace is an avowed hack.
 
Dude, there are instances where cops bang on the window of a car someone is sleeping in, never check them out and they end up being someone who was a serious offender with warrants. It's even happened regarding a couple of mass shooters...

Mr. Brooks was slightly inebriated, had been run for warrants, and was "so drunk" and posed such a threat that the cops allowed him to move and park his own vehicle. Now since he didn't want to be arrested, you're somehow implying that because he tried to escape he was intent on going on a crime spree?

He fell asleep at the drive through, not the parking lot. Significant difference

the risk for further crime comes after he beat up two cops, should they allow him to slink back off into the night. He was then an outlaw without a car and potentially without means, risk for crime pretty high at that point
 
To paraphrase Chris Rock, we don't accept "a few bad apples" in airline pilots...we shouldn't accept that from people with guns and badges.

Who’s saying to accept a few bad apples? If they break the law prosecute them. The union contracts should be reworked so the bad apples can be fired.
 
He fell asleep at the drive through, not the parking lot. Significant difference

the risk for further crime comes after he beat up two cops, should they allow him to slink back off into the night. He was then an outlaw without a car and potentially without means, risk for crime pretty high at that point
You're just talking out of your ass, Stelio. You have nothing to back up your statement with.

You've got nothing . . . again.
 
You're just talking out of your ass, Stelio. You have nothing to back up your statement with.

You've got nothing . . . again.

where am I wrong?

the risk for further crime does not justify the shooting, the pointing the weapon at the officers does

falling asleep at the drive through is way different than parking your car and taking a nap
 
Who’s saying to accept a few bad apples? If they break the law prosecute them. The union contracts should be reworked so the bad apples can be fired.
What reworking of the union contracts would be necessary to do that, stoll?
 
where am I wrong?

the risk for further crime does not justify the shooting, the pointing the weapon at the officers does

falling asleep at the drive through is way different than parking your car and taking a nap
Where are you wrong? Pretty much anywhere you are, Stelios.

BTW, as far as the law is concerned in Georgia, you're wrong on both of the statements in that post. So you're just wrong, period.
 
Where are you wrong? Pretty much anywhere you are, Stelios.

BTW, as far as the law is concerned in Georgia, you're wrong on both of the statements in that post. So you're just wrong, period.

sure, whatever you say

my first statement cited zero law whatsoever, but rather, common sense

shit, my second statement cited zero law whatsoever, just common sense

someone who is on the lamb, with no vehicle, avoiding their primary residence due to an arrest warrant, presumably with zero means to purchase goods or services, is far more likely to commit a crime. Only the stupidest of the stupid would fail at connecting those dots

a person who falls asleep while their vehicle is in the path of other moving vehicles, albeit at slow speed in a drive through is deserving of far more scrutiny than someone who pulls their car into a parking space, parks it, and dozes off. Once again, if you can’t figure that out, well, you need a helmet and mouth guard 24/7

these are not reasons to shoot the guy however.
 
Bottom line if he was doing what he was supposed to be doing he would be home right now, probably awaiting his return to jail for his previous crimes but he didn't hence he paid the ultimate sacrifice. I feel for his family and the officers he put in that situation.

The real fun will begin if the officers are acquitted of any wrong doing, which IMO they should, the city of Atlanta will probably burn to the ground. When you start putting the burden of proof on those trying to protect rather than those who are law breakers you have big problems.

While I'm sure you're not racist, do you seriously not see anything wrong with typing "probably awaiting his return to jail for his previous crimes"? Are you saying he was on parole or had warrants? Because not only did the first cop run him for warrants and request a field sobriety officer, a step that would not have been necessary if they had any reason to suspect him of anything more serious than DUI, but at some point, he was allowed to get in his car drive it to a parking space and park it. THAT does not indicate that the cops viewed him as a "dangerous felon", which seems to be the approach you are taking...
 
While I'm sure you're not racist, do you seriously not see anything wrong with typing "probably awaiting his return to jail for his previous crimes"? Are you saying he was on parole or had warrants? Because not only did the first cop run him for warrants and request a field sobriety officer, a step that would not have been necessary if they had any reason to suspect him of anything more serious than DUI, but at some point, he was allowed to get in his car drive it to a parking space and park it. THAT does not indicate that the cops viewed him as a "dangerous felon", which seems to be the approach you are taking...

he didn’t start out as a dangerous felon but shit he became one fast
 
1.08 doesn't indicate to me that he was sh*t faced. And yeah I'd a told him the cops were on the way, go home.
I bet parents who have lost loves ones to drunk drivers would say anything over the legal limit is not legal to drive. I'm no saint have driven in my past when I shouldn't but once I had kids and especially kids that drive I would want to do more than shoot this fella if he were driving impaired and hurt/killed one of mine.
 
There’s no way they get him on felony murder.
You think there will be 12 Hoopsdocs in the jury box on this case, not being able to see over the jury box railing . . . you just can't get past yourself to see the world as it is.

Here's something you need to know: you are not the final arbiter of much of anything, much less a criminal case in another state.
 
You think there will be 12 Hoopsdocs in the jury box on this case, not being able to see over the jury box railing . . . you just can't get past yourself to see the world as it is.

Here's something you need to know: you are not the final arbiter of much of anything, much less a criminal case in another state.

He is no more or less a final arbiter than you
 
I bet parents who have lost loves ones to drunk drivers would say anything over the legal limit is not legal to drive. I'm no saint have driven in my past when I shouldn't but once I had kids and especially kids that drive I would want to do more than shoot this fella if he were driving impaired and hurt/killed one of mine.
I hear ya. He was ready to walk to his nearby sister's house . . . no way he was driving any place after the cops showed up.

Why the cops didn't walk him there, then make a assessment of how the sister reacted to him before releasing him to stay at her house, has crossed my mind . . .
 
I hear ya. He was ready to walk to his nearby sister's house . . . no way he was driving any place after the cops showed up.

Why the cops didn't walk him there, then make a assessment of how the sister reacted to him before releasing him to stay at her house, has crossed my mind . . .

probably because he passed out while in the drive through genius
 
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You think there will be 12 Hoopsdocs in the jury box on this case, not being able to see over the jury box railing . . . you just can't get past yourself to see the world as it is.

Here's something you need to know: you are not the final arbiter of much of anything, much less a criminal case in another state.
I don’t know what you’re babbling about but I haven’t presented myself as the final arbiter of anything.

In one of my first posts in this thread I said my main issue is the mmqb’ing going on and the shoehorning in of race where there is no evidence that it’s warranted.
 
While I'm sure you're not racist, do you seriously not see anything wrong with typing "probably awaiting his return to jail for his previous crimes"? Are you saying he was on parole or had warrants? Because not only did the first cop run him for warrants and request a field sobriety officer, a step that would not have been necessary if they had any reason to suspect him of anything more serious than DUI, but at some point, he was allowed to get in his car drive it to a parking space and park it. THAT does not indicate that the cops viewed him as a "dangerous felon", which seems to be the approach you are taking...
It was an assumption but the news had reported he was let out of jail due to Covid, he was in on child abuse charges. If he didn't fear he was going back to jail then why resist? He knew the consequences (of at least I would hope he knew) of drinking and driving so if you get caught then take the punishment. Basically be accountable for your actions.
 
It was an assumption but the news had reported he was let out of jail on child abuse charges due to Covid. If he didn't fear he was going back to jail then why resist? He knew the consequences (of at least I would hope he knew) of drinking and driving so if you get caught then take the punishment. Basically be accountable for your actions.

that last sentence goes over like a lead balloon with many in this country
 
I don’t know what you’re babbling about but I haven’t presented myself as the final arbiter of anything.

In one of my first posts in this thread I said my main issue is the mmqb’ing going on and the shoehorning in of race where there is no evidence that it’s warranted.
Man, you are full of shit.

The one thing you got right is that you don't know what I'm talking about . . . it's OK, I'm used to it . . . .
 
I hear ya. He was ready to walk to his nearby sister's house . . . no way he was driving any place after the cops showed up.

Why the cops didn't walk him there, then make a assessment of how the sister reacted to him before releasing him to stay at her house, has crossed my mind . . .
That teaches him a great lesson, "hey we know you drove here drunk, passed out and could have caused great danger to others, so we are going to just walk you home and hope like hell you learn your lesson". That will teach him, maybe Barnie and Andy can go check up on him in the morning and bring him some coffee to get rid of the hangover. lol
 
Don’t they have much power in keeping bad cops from being fired? If not, I guess it doesn’t matter.
6 cops in Atlanta have been fired for excessive force since the George Floyd incident . . . 4 of them black for excessive force on a couple of college kids in a car during the initial protests here in Atlanta, plus the two officers involved in the Rayshard Brooks arrest/shooting.

Georgia is a right-to-work state . . . unions have little power here period. Public teachers unions are illegal . . . .
 
That teaches him a great lesson, "hey we know you drove here drunk, passed out and could have caused great danger to others, so we are going to just walk you home and hope like hell you learn your lesson". That will teach him, maybe Barnie and Andy can go check up on him in the morning and bring him some coffee to get rid of the hangover. lol
So you prefer that he's dead . . . .
 
Only skimmed through the first couple pages, but the officer firing the taser twice and it being out of ammo (and the cop knowing that) when the victim stole it is a pretty key piece of information.

Killing the dude was a completely inappropriate response and the police deserve to be criminally punished for that.
 
That teaches him a great lesson, "hey we know you drove here drunk, passed out and could have caused great danger to others, so we are going to just walk you home and hope like hell you learn your lesson". That will teach him, maybe Barnie and Andy can go check up on him in the morning and bring him some coffee to get rid of the hangover. lol
Used to be that way. Cops would take the drunk’s keys and leave them in his trunk and tell him to walk home. He can come back in the morning to get the car etc. but dwi’s became a bigger deal and the public wanted greater enforcement of same. The days of walking drunks home are over. Too many drunk driving deaths to be courteous.

This guy fought bc he was likely afraid of a probation revocation.

Suspects and cops both need to behave better. This shouldn’t be a debate.
 
15631105391_7ab4d01a2a_o.gif





just a bit outside


Really? I wonder...

So for you, HoopsDoc, Jet,vslice and anyone else that thinks this shooting in this spot under these circumstances was justified I've got a few hypotheticals. First off I don't want to misrepresent anyone's opinion, so correct me if I'm wrong. You folks have no problem with a cop discharging his weapon three times at a running DUI suspect in a crowded Wendy's drive thru/parking area on a weekend night in metro Atlanta? Three shots,with the 3rd coming AFTER 2 previous shots have already entered this suspects back? Am I stating your position correctly?

You do not feel the other alternatives like chasing the subject on foot, allowing him to escape and staking out his home,calling for backup-none of these alternatives seem more appropriate to you than shooting an unarmed man (carrying a discharged taser) in the back for that exact offense at that exact location, right? Am I accurately articulating the argument you are making here? And you realize that this subject has been searched, had his ID run for warrants, and was evidently coherent enough and viewed as harmless enough that these same officers at one point allowed him to drive his own car a short distance to a parking spot and park it, right?
I just want to be sure we're all on the same page, as far as facts go...

Now I refer you to this video, and you don't even have to watch the video. Look at the still photo of the preview and tell me do you see at least 4 other cars in the frame of where the man fell when he was shot? If so, do you still feel that discharging a firearm THREE times in that setting was justified or even advisable conduct by an LEO? For a suspect that was fleeing from the scene of a suspected DUI?

If the answer is still yes, then let's place you and your family in one of those cars. And since the video that you describe as "a bit outside" is an interview with a man whose car was hit by that third shot, then let's say YOUR car was hit by that shot, and maybe even your child. Still feel exactly the same way, knowing what we know the officers KNEW?

So suppose your child was shot in your car while you were in line at a damn drive-thru, and you discovered that the cop had shot at a DUI suspect fleeing on foot 3 times, with the first two hitting him in the back and mortally wounding him. Still feel the same?

Now suppose later you discovered that the cop had been on the force for 7 yrs, and had in just 7 yrs been "investigated" TWELVE times. Including for improper discharge of his firearm 2 yrs ago, and before that being part of a cover-up, when an officer-involved shooting that involved a car chase suspect being wounded and needing surgery, and none of the involved officers had reported it on their arrest paperwork? Do you think that sounds like a cop who exercises good judgement?

So do you think you might have a justifiable reason to sue if your child was injured or killed? Let's say all that came down the way I suggested, would you still be claiming the cops exercised good judgement and did nothing wrong? Would you not even consider a lawsuit, and bring all of these facts together as evidence? I don't have kids, but I gotta tell you, substitute my dog for my non-existent child and you're damn straight I'd sue. And I think I'd have a very good shot of winning...

 
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Used to be that way. Cops would take the drunk’s keys and leave them in his trunk and tell him to walk home. He can come back in the morning to get the car etc. but dwi’s became a bigger deal and the public wanted greater enforcement of same. The days of walking drunks home are over. Too many drunk driving deaths to be courteous.

This guy fought bc he was likely afraid of a probation revocation.

Suspects and cops both need to behave better. This shouldn’t be a debate.

Where do you see any indication he was on "probation"? Again, if they could arrest him for that,why would they need a field sobriety officer? Seems to me you're making assumptions with no basis in fact...
 
Used to be that way. Cops would take the drunk’s keys and leave them in his trunk and tell him to walk home. He can come back in the morning to get the car etc. but dwi’s became a bigger deal and the public wanted greater enforcement of same. The days of walking drunks home are over. Too many drunk driving deaths to be courteous.

This guy fought bc he was likely afraid of a probation revocation.

Suspects and cops both need to behave better. This shouldn’t be a debate.
All of what you're describing was in St. Louis, right? Not everywhere treated the issue the same way St. Louis cops did.

BTW, was what you're describing in St. Louis, or the St. Louis suburbs? I'm asking out of ignorance, not to make a point.
 
Where do you see any indication he was on "probation"? Again, if they could arrest him for that,why would they need a field sobriety officer? Seems to me you're making assumptions with no basis in fact...
1. Cited in numerous articles he had been on probation.
2. Because he was under of suspicion of dwi. I don’t know GA law but a field sobriety/nystagmus test are routine.

You don’t ignore committing a crime bc he may have done something to revoke probation. You charge both.
 
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