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The Tyranny of the Minority

cosmickid

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Oct 23, 2009
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It's the title of a new book by Harvard Poly Sci professors Daniel Ziblatt and Steven Levitsky. Some interesting points, esp regarding the historical legacy of the electoral college, and the fillibuster as an impediment to electoral reform...




Now for an especially egregious example, let's look at what the GOP minority is trying to do in Wisconsin...

Non partisan evaluators rank Wisconsin as one of the worst examples of political gerrymandering and give recent redistricting efforts by the GOP Legislature there a grade of F. Earlier this year, WI held a special judiciaary election to replace a retiring SC Justice.

One of the primary issues in the campaign was those gerrymandered political maps and the fact that people were voting for Dems statewide and because of severe gerrymandering the GOP in a 50-50 state had achieved a super majority in both houses of the Legislature. People knew that the more liberal candidate (Janet Protasiewicz) would vote the maps illegal, and they voted for her by double digits.

Now the GOP Legislators are threatening to Impeach her (before she ever hears a single case) because she will not recuse herself (and in effect give them victory). However, one of the reasons she was elected in a landslide was to press for fair maps and break the GOP stranglehold. So essentially the minority Republicans are basically trying to retain their power and disenfranchise the majority who voted for her to change things...

I'm aware of gerrymanders from both sides, where the majority limits the political power of the minority. But I'm not aware of a state with a Dem minority using gerrymandering to retain power and impose their minority view on the majority...

 
you know who hates majority rule?

the minority.

the confederacy conservatives realize they are the minority, and aren't going to win back enough voters to ever be a majority in most parts of the country.

but conservatives by nature are obsessed with ruling over others, always have been, always will be, are also "might makes right" by nature, and will never give up their obsession with ruling over others, no matter the numbers.

the far right will never give up their obsession with ruling over everyone else all the time, it's just who they are.

this isn't just a one election thing.

the far right will never stop their quest to rule over everyone else, and besides the far rights obsession with ruling over others, they also have a far lower standard of ethics than liberals, and believe if you aren't lying and cheating, you aren't trying.

and that lying and cheating is just being smart.

they don't put the same moral stigma on lying and cheating as liberals do, they just don't have that gene.

the far right will always be obsessed with ruling over everyone else, all the time, on everything, and will never have any problem with any amount of lying and cheating and doing anything else they need to accomplish that end.

they have been that way literally throughout history. they ain't changin now.
 
It's the title of a new book by Harvard Poly Sci professors Daniel Ziblatt and Steven Levitsky. Some interesting points, esp regarding the historical legacy of the electoral college, and the fillibuster as an impediment to electoral reform...




Now for an especially egregious example, let's look at what the GOP minority is trying to do in Wisconsin...

Non partisan evaluators rank Wisconsin as one of the worst examples of political gerrymandering and give recent redistricting efforts by the GOP Legislature there a grade of F. Earlier this year, WI held a special judiciaary election to replace a retiring SC Justice.

One of the primary issues in the campaign was those gerrymandered political maps and the fact that people were voting for Dems statewide and because of severe gerrymandering the GOP in a 50-50 state had achieved a super majority in both houses of the Legislature. People knew that the more liberal candidate (Janet Protasiewicz) would vote the maps illegal, and they voted for her by double digits.

Now the GOP Legislators are threatening to Impeach her (before she ever hears a single case) because she will not recuse herself (and in effect give them victory). However, one of the reasons she was elected in a landslide was to press for fair maps and break the GOP stranglehold. So essentially the minority Republicans are basically trying to retain their power and disenfranchise the majority who voted for her to change things...

I'm aware of gerrymanders from both sides, where the majority limits the political power of the minority. But I'm not aware of a state with a Dem minority using gerrymandering to retain power and impose their minority view on the majority...

Dems are more concentrated in cities whereas conservatives tend to be more spread out. Most the time, it would be difficult for dems to gerrymeander as effectively
 
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It's the title of a new book by Harvard Poly Sci professors Daniel Ziblatt and Steven Levitsky. Some interesting points, esp regarding the historical legacy of the electoral college, and the fillibuster as an impediment to electoral reform...




Now for an especially egregious example, let's look at what the GOP minority is trying to do in Wisconsin...

Non partisan evaluators rank Wisconsin as one of the worst examples of political gerrymandering and give recent redistricting efforts by the GOP Legislature there a grade of F. Earlier this year, WI held a special judiciaary election to replace a retiring SC Justice.

One of the primary issues in the campaign was those gerrymandered political maps and the fact that people were voting for Dems statewide and because of severe gerrymandering the GOP in a 50-50 state had achieved a super majority in both houses of the Legislature. People knew that the more liberal candidate (Janet Protasiewicz) would vote the maps illegal, and they voted for her by double digits.

Now the GOP Legislators are threatening to Impeach her (before she ever hears a single case) because she will not recuse herself (and in effect give them victory). However, one of the reasons she was elected in a landslide was to press for fair maps and break the GOP stranglehold. So essentially the minority Republicans are basically trying to retain their power and disenfranchise the majority who voted for her to change things...

I'm aware of gerrymanders from both sides, where the majority limits the political power of the minority. But I'm not aware of a state with a Dem minority using gerrymandering to retain power and impose their minority view on the majority...

 
Dems are more concentrated in cities whereas conservatives tend to be more spread out. Most the time, it would be difficult for dems to gerrymeander as effectively
There is decently easy improvements in this situation.

Does every state have state senators and state reps like Indiana does?

For Indiana it should:
Each county gets a state senator. That would be 92 senators, when we currently have 50.

Each township over a certain population gets a rep, but each county would have at least two reps. So using Hamilton County. Carmel, Fishers (2), Noblesville and Westfield would each have a rep. Noblesville is the county seat. That would, in theory leave four townships w/o a rep. They would get one total rep.

Marion County would have 9 reps.

These numbers are based on the previous full census, so subject to change every 10 years.

This might change much in terms of how a state is represented, but it would end gerrymandering.

Of course as it relates to Indiana, it would increase number of legislators, and a cynic might not like that. I just want fair and equal representation with an opportunity for checks and balances.
 
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It's the title of a new book by Harvard Poly Sci professors Daniel Ziblatt and Steven Levitsky. Some interesting points, esp regarding the historical legacy of the electoral college, and the fillibuster as an impediment to electoral reform...




Now for an especially egregious example, let's look at what the GOP minority is trying to do in Wisconsin...

Non partisan evaluators rank Wisconsin as one of the worst examples of political gerrymandering and give recent redistricting efforts by the GOP Legislature there a grade of F. Earlier this year, WI held a special judiciaary election to replace a retiring SC Justice.

One of the primary issues in the campaign was those gerrymandered political maps and the fact that people were voting for Dems statewide and because of severe gerrymandering the GOP in a 50-50 state had achieved a super majority in both houses of the Legislature. People knew that the more liberal candidate (Janet Protasiewicz) would vote the maps illegal, and they voted for her by double digits.

Now the GOP Legislators are threatening to Impeach her (before she ever hears a single case) because she will not recuse herself (and in effect give them victory). However, one of the reasons she was elected in a landslide was to press for fair maps and break the GOP stranglehold. So essentially the minority Republicans are basically trying to retain their power and disenfranchise the majority who voted for her to change things...

I'm aware of gerrymanders from both sides, where the majority limits the political power of the minority. But I'm not aware of a state with a Dem minority using gerrymandering to retain power and impose their minority view on the majority...

 
The Wisconsin GOP may ultimately get to the right place, but it’s certainly not because they care about voters or elections.
 
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Gerrymandering is time honored US political tradition, since 1812
Practiced by by Republicans and Democrats alike,
The practices namesake was a Democratic Republican

Yes, the party that ends up in the minority alway complains.
Sometimes they win in court, when the minority is perceived to have been frozen out.

The term gerrymandering is a portmanteau of a salamander and Elbridge Gerry, Vice President of the United States at the time of his death, who, as governor of Massachusetts in 1812, signed a bill that created a partisan district in the Boston area that was compared to the shape of a mythological salamander.
— Attributed to Wikipedia, by Google
 
you know who hates majority rule?

the minority.

the confederacy conservatives realize they are the minority, and aren't going to win back enough voters to ever be a majority in most parts of the country.

but conservatives by nature are obsessed with ruling over others, always have been, always will be, are also "might makes right" by nature, and will never give up their obsession with ruling over others, no matter the numbers.

the far right will never give up their obsession with ruling over everyone else all the time, it's just who they are.

this isn't just a one election thing.

the far right will never stop their quest to rule over everyone else, and besides the far rights obsession with ruling over others, they also have a far lower standard of ethics than liberals, and believe if you aren't lying and cheating, you aren't trying.

and that lying and cheating is just being smart.

they don't put the same moral stigma on lying and cheating as liberals do, they just don't have that gene.

the far right will always be obsessed with ruling over everyone else, all the time, on everything, and will never have any problem with any amount of lying and cheating and doing anything else they need to accomplish that end.

they have been that way literally throughout history. they ain't changin now.
Why?
 
Gerrymandering is time honored US political tradition, since 1812
Practiced by by Republicans and Democrats alike,
The practices namesake was a Democratic Republican

Yes, the party that ends up in the minority alway complains.
Sometimes they win in court, when the minority is perceived to have been frozen out.

The term gerrymandering is a portmanteau of a salamander and Elbridge Gerry, Vice President of the United States at the time of his death, who, as governor of Massachusetts in 1812, signed a bill that created a partisan district in the Boston area that was compared to the shape of a mythological salamander.
— Attributed to Wikipedia, by Google
True. The difference is that gerrymandering usually occurs when the MAJORITY consolidates authority to maintain power... So if Dems gerrymander in CA or New York, and Pubs gerrymander in AL or Mississippi both cases involve the majority of voters in each state being represented by their elected representatives...

However WI is not a "red state", and as recently as 2022 the Dem governor was re-elected. GOP Legislative candidates actually got less votes than Dem candidates, but because of the extreme gerrymandering the GOP still got more seats and achieved a super majority
I don't understand the purpose of your posts in this thread, esp the strawman you introduced suggesting Evers might veto the bill? WTH would Evers want to veto a bill he himself pressed for? All of the speakers in the GOP tweet, including Evers are Dems. The only possible issue might be the amendments, but I don't think you posted anything that says what they provided for, just that the GOP introduced them...

I'm not sure the Pubs should be applauded for finally accepting political reality and realizing Impeaching a newly elected SC Justice without a valid reason is an electoral disaster. Without their majority on the SC intact they were fighting a losing battle. And the truth is they expected to win the SC justice election and were shocked to not only lose,but to get blown out.

Had that not happened, Vos and his cronies would have no problem continuing to play their game and holding on to power by disenfranchising Dem voters who are certainly equal in number to Pubs if not an outright majority. And if the horrible optics and bad press the Pubs were getting over their threat to Impeach Protasciewicz weren't enough to dissuade them from their power grab, the $ 4 Million the Dems injected into an ad campaign this week against the GOP plan likely convinced the Pubs to decide to be rational.
 
True. The difference is that gerrymandering usually occurs when the MAJORITY consolidates authority to maintain power... So if Dems gerrymander in CA or New York, and Pubs gerrymander in AL or Mississippi both cases involve the majority of voters in each state being represented by their elected representatives...

However WI is not a "red state", and as recently as 2022 the Dem governor was re-elected. GOP Legislative candidates actually got less votes than Dem candidates, but because of the extreme gerrymandering the GOP still got more seats and achieved a super majority

I don't understand the purpose of your posts in this thread, esp the strawman you introduced suggesting Evers might veto the bill? WTH would Evers want to veto a bill he himself pressed for? All of the speakers in the GOP tweet, including Evers are Dems. The only possible issue might be the amendments, but I don't think you posted anything that says what they provided for, just that the GOP introduced them...

I'm not sure the Pubs should be applauded for finally accepting political reality and realizing Impeaching a newly elected SC Justice without a valid reason is an electoral disaster. Without their majority on the SC intact they were fighting a losing battle. And the truth is they expected to win the SC justice election and were shocked to not only lose,but to get blown out.

Had that not happened, Vos and his cronies would have no problem continuing to play their game and holding on to power by disenfranchising Dem voters who are certainly equal in number to Pubs if not an outright majority. And if the horrible optics and bad press the Pubs were getting over their threat to Impeach Protasciewicz weren't enough to dissuade them from their power grab, the $ 4 Million the Dems injected into an ad campaign this week against the GOP plan likely convinced the Pubs to decide to be rational.
So you are in favor of the “Iowa Model”?

That’s good. It’s the standard for fair geographical based districting.
 
True. The difference is that gerrymandering usually occurs when the MAJORITY consolidates authority to maintain power... So if Dems gerrymander in CA or New York, and Pubs gerrymander in AL or Mississippi both cases involve the majority of voters in each state being represented by their elected representatives...

However WI is not a "red state", and as recently as 2022 the Dem governor was re-elected. GOP Legislative candidates actually got less votes than Dem candidates, but because of the extreme gerrymandering the GOP still got more seats and achieved a super majority

I don't understand the purpose of your posts in this thread, esp the strawman you introduced suggesting Evers might veto the bill? WTH would Evers want to veto a bill he himself pressed for? All of the speakers in the GOP tweet, including Evers are Dems. The only possible issue might be the amendments, but I don't think you posted anything that says what they provided for, just that the GOP introduced them...

I'm not sure the Pubs should be applauded for finally accepting political reality and realizing Impeaching a newly elected SC Justice without a valid reason is an electoral disaster. Without their majority on the SC intact they were fighting a losing battle. And the truth is they expected to win the SC justice election and were shocked to not only lose,but to get blown out.

Had that not happened, Vos and his cronies would have no problem continuing to play their game and holding on to power by disenfranchising Dem voters who are certainly equal in number to Pubs if not an outright majority. And if the horrible optics and bad press the Pubs were getting over their threat to Impeach Protasciewicz weren't enough to dissuade them from their power grab, the $ 4 Million the Dems injected into an ad campaign this week against the GOP plan likely convinced the Pubs to decide to be rational.


They passed a non-partisan redistricting plan that’s nearly identical to the one Evers proposed in his 2019 budget.

I wonder what changed?
 
True. The difference is that gerrymandering usually occurs when the MAJORITY consolidates authority to maintain power... So if Dems gerrymander in CA or New York, and Pubs gerrymander in AL or Mississippi both cases involve the majority of voters in each state being represented by their elected representatives...

However WI is not a "red state", and as recently as 2022 the Dem governor was re-elected. GOP Legislative candidates actually got less votes than Dem candidates, but because of the extreme gerrymandering the GOP still got more seats and achieved a super majority

I don't understand the purpose of your posts in this thread, esp the strawman you introduced suggesting Evers might veto the bill? WTH would Evers want to veto a bill he himself pressed for? All of the speakers in the GOP tweet, including Evers are Dems. The only possible issue might be the amendments, but I don't think you posted anything that says what they provided for, just that the GOP introduced them...

I'm not sure the Pubs should be applauded for finally accepting political reality and realizing Impeaching a newly elected SC Justice without a valid reason is an electoral disaster. Without their majority on the SC intact they were fighting a losing battle. And the truth is they expected to win the SC justice election and were shocked to not only lose,but to get blown out.

Had that not happened, Vos and his cronies would have no problem continuing to play their game and holding on to power by disenfranchising Dem voters who are certainly equal in number to Pubs if not an outright majority. And if the horrible optics and bad press the Pubs were getting over their threat to Impeach Protasciewicz weren't enough to dissuade them from their power grab, the $ 4 Million the Dems injected into an ad campaign this week against the GOP plan likely convinced the Pubs to decide to be rational.
 
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