The truth about Steve Alford

[Columbus-Boiler]

Either IU as a basketball program has tradition, history, status.... or it doesn't. If it does have those things it stands to reason a coach would do better at IU than say Iowa? A coach with deep Indiana ties (the kids may not remember him but the parents and coaches and athletic directors who steer them will).

Look, he's not coming to IU because for some reason that bridge has been burned and he may not be a fit or be successful if he did. But what I think is bizarre is a team with a coach with Archie's fluke seasons credentials is bashing Alford's. Archie may become God version 2 and Alford may end up coaching AAU. IDK but at this point the arguments really don't add up.

 

[CriticArisen]

There will be supporters and detractors as always no matter who gets the job. My view is that the SA detractors here are really just encouraging business as usual and after CAM goes a selection will be announced that has sufficient supporters (albeit many detractors also) and it will be another repeat of the post RMK hires. All I’m saying is it should be kept in the family rather than going outside the state for a hire. I am sure RMK came to IU in large part because he knew what basketball meant at that time in Indiana. It was never just a game for entertainment in the state but rather what many in the state spent a significant part of their life playing, watching, discussing, and contemplating. It really was an important part of their life.

 

[Ladoga]

None of the players being recruited today have any memory of Steve Alford as a player, and probably very few know anything about him as a coach. Putting him in a red sweater on the Home Bench in Assembly Hall does not mean he will dominate the State in recruiting. This is particularly true when you consider that Matt Painter has been at Purdue for I believe 13 years, Mike Brey has been at Notre Dame going on 20 years, and Butler although having a tough year this year has an aura around the program and has made 2 Final Fours in recent years. If we were going to hire Alford, it should have been done when Mike Davis was fired, and before he was involved in that hot mess at Iowa.

The most influential voices in a player's recruitment and college choice should be his mother's and his high school coach's. SHOULD be. If not, I would hope IU wouldn't even consider the kid. No Ball brothers dads talking to the press, no AAU hangers on/coaches/bag men, no posse. The point is, the coaches know Alford and they are/should be the gatekeeper to recruiting a high school kid.

 

[Ladoga]

Either IU as a basketball program has tradition, history, status.... or it doesn't. If it does have those things it stands to reason a coach would do better at IU than say Iowa? A coach with deep Indiana ties (the kids may not remember him but the parents and coaches and athletic directors who steer them will).

Look, he's not coming to IU because for some reason that bridge has been burned and he may not be a fit or be successful if he did. But what I think is bizarre is a team with a coach with Archie's fluke seasons credentials is bashing Alford's. Archie may become God version 2 and Alford may end up coaching AAU. IDK but at this point the arguments really don't add up.

WAIT!

Did one of you guys fire Archie this morning? Is the IU Coaching position open?

You people are competing for the best used toilet paper each of you can produce. Its meaningless tripe.

The job isn't open and even if it was, no one here will have any input.

I was way inside on the Davis to Sampson changes and believe me, no one asked anyone here what they should do. I did get a chance to scream NO to even talking to Sampson while the committee was on the ground in Norman, Oklahoma interviewing him. I was right, IU was wrong and they know it now for sure, but you nor I nor anyone here is going to influence any choice they might make in future.

Or, put another way, we're just IU supporters (or critics) and they do not care what we think about basketball, football nor anything else that happens at IU.

 

[victorbear]

Since 1985 this is how many conference wins the MWC (New Mexico), the Pac (UCLA), and the A-10 (Dayton) have in the tournament.
Mountain West 21
Pac-12 35
A-10 76

Steve was really coaching in a couple brutal conferences right there Whoa!
In 8 years in a real basketball conference when he coached for Iowa he made the tournament only 3 times with two first round exits and a second round exit never making the sweet 16.

I still don't get all the Alford love here. He's not that impressive.

Dakich (I know I know not a fan either) however he interviewed Sage Steele today and discussed the state of the program, why people left early the other night, and the type of coach IU deserves. It was odd watching people leave the arena in OT the other night. Dakich told his daughter a senior at IU and b-ball fan that he would be down for the Wiscy game and she replied she didn't even know there was a game. They both agreed thats how far the program has fallen.

The interesting topic was the hire UK made with Calipari, Krzyzewski at Duke and Williams at NC. All 3 of those coaches are BIGGER than the b-ball programs. No different than when Knight was at IU he was bigger than the program.

Oh and they both agreed when Alford went to UCLA he was not bigger than the program. Great Interview!

Give Archie his due but IDK how he is going to deal with Juwan and Romeo exiting next year. It could be worse.

Bottom line if Archie fails here we need to go after a solid P4 (Pac doesn't count as referenced above) coach that goes to the tourney regularly and needs a school with the support and cred behind it (IU see link) https://watchstadium.com/news/big-t...k-the-best-jobs-in-the-conference-10-11-2018/ to get him deep int the tourney year after year. Might be sitting right here in our own conference.

This is a lie because you have to remember what teams were in the Atlantic 10 when Archie was coaching!!!!!! Many teams left the Atlantic 10 such as Villanova, Temple, West Virginia. This is a total lie.

 

[victorbear]

Temple, West Virginia, Villanova and Xavier used to be in Atlantic 10. The conference stinks right now and has since Archie coached in it.

 

[victorbear]

Based on 2014-15 memberships
NCAA tournament
wins since 2000
1. ACC 176
2. Big Ten 151
3. SEC 121
4. Big 12 118
5. Pac-12 96
6. Big East 77
7. American 69
8. Atlantic 10 31
9. West Coast 25
10. Mountain West 18
11. Missouri Valley 17

Rest of Division I 137

 

[Bligedy]

I have been watching a lot of inaccurate verbage or poorly thought out arguments being posted about Alford on this board. Here are some real facts. Steve is one of only 9 coaches to reach Sweet Sixteen 3 times in last 5 years. Steve did struggle this season with 4 players out due to injury 3 that we're projected starters. Very few players have ever left a Steve Alford coached team early except to go to NBA. He will own recruiting in Indiana if he coaches here. Many people who know Steve well would tell you he is not this bad person he has been made out to be by Iowa and UCLA trolls.

I don't know how good Alford is or isnt but I can't imagine the program being any worse off than it is right now if he had been hired over Sampson, Crean or Archie.

 

[abraxis]

You have to separate the player from the coach. Alford is not a great coach or human being for that matter. His handling of the pierce debacle takes him out of coaching contention at IU.

Alford is probably a better human being than 99% of the people on this planet, Earth, “pierce debacle” or not. I’ll give you credit for calling him not a great coach, yet, based upon record but certainly a good coach and one highly respected.

 

[CriticArisen]

WAIT!

Did one of you guys fire Archie this morning? Is the IU Coaching position open?

You people are competing for the best used toilet paper each of you can produce. Its meaningless tripe.

The job isn't open and even if it was, no one here will have any input.

I was way inside on the Davis to Sampson changes and believe me, no one asked anyone here what they should do. I did get a chance to scream NO to even talking to Sampson while the committee was on the ground in Norman, Oklahoma interviewing him. I was right, IU was wrong and they know it now for sure, but you nor I nor anyone here is going to influence any choice they might make in future.

Or, put another way, we're just IU supporters (or critics) and they do not care what we think about basketball, football nor anything else that happens at IU.

Governor Holcomb is a BB fan, is interested in maintaining Indiana’s status as a BB stronghold, and appoints most of the Trustees so he has stroke. McRobbie’s background makes him unusually unqualified to oversee the IU BB program. Is it asking too much for the citizens of Indiana who pay the admin’s salaries to ask them to provide a competitive program? They have demonstrated they are completely unqualified to determine coach hires. If I were Holcomb i’d send in the National Guard before letting them screw up again.

His detachment date is a Poisson Distribution in that every day CAM is at IU is a day closer to his termination. He is a dead man walking at this point. No he hasn’t been fired but the signs and portents are there and it looks very likely to happen in the not too far distant future.

I like abrxis’ comment about SA but 99% is a low estimate.

 

[CriticArisen]

I mean it is fine if they think the common folk of Indiana are ignorant savages that should be denied a competitive BB program on general intellectual principles but when they provide said program they should expect some discord amongst the savages.

 

[Indianaftw]

This is a lie because you have to remember what teams were in the Atlantic 10 when Archie was coaching!!!!!! Many teams left the Atlantic 10 such as Villanova, Temple, West Virginia. This is a total lie.

Well geee I meant to lie...Your posts don't hold water either.

Alford is not a game changing coach. If he was he would have smoked at UCLA and made deep runs. They gave him EVERY resource possible. IU cannot match the resources he had while at UCLA (including the views of Westwood, so cal girls, and the area they are in). So his players carried him to a couple sweet 16's and when he got to that level where coaching matters he was slaughtered. He even had a stacked roster and was so out-coached in the tourney he looked silly.

How can anyone not recruit to UCLA thats like the Lamborghini of all coaching destinations.

I'll Pass on Alford...

 

[coachv jr]

It would be great if SA returned to coach IU. The Administration has fought constantly against hiring a coach that played during RMK’s tenure and we all see the result. It’s time to bring back an Indiana legend to coach the team. It would be a mythic return for most Hoosiers that have lived and breathed basketball for their entire lives and remember how southern Indiana shut down on Saturday afternoons to watch the IU BB broadcast.

Any coach that comes to IU will have detractors and supporters. Since RMK left the detractors have been correct. SA in contrast to prior higher offers much much more. He is born and bread in the state. He was a great high school and college player. Second all time leading scorer and only one of those seasons with 3 pt line. Led an IU team to national championship. Of course I would like to see him back at IU.

of all the accolades you listed, none referred to his coaching career

 

[minneman]

Alford is probably a better human being than 99% of the people on this planet, Earth, “pierce debacle” or not. I’ll give you credit for calling him not a great coach, yet, based upon record but certainly a good coach and one highly respected.

What is this rubbish? What makes you think he's "a better human being than 99% of the people on this planet"? Because he could put a ball through a hoop and won a NC for IU? Being able to play basketball does not automatically make one a better person. Nor does being a great coach, being famous, and/or being rich. None of those things are indications of how good of a person someone is. The "pierce debacle" automatically knocks him out of the top 1% of the best human beings in which you seem to believe he resides.

 

[oldcougar77]

I mean it is fine if they think the common folk of Indiana are ignorant savages that should be denied a competitive BB program on general intellectual principles but when they provide said program they should expect some discord amongst the savages.

Take a survey of D-1 basketball coaches and ask whether Archie Miller or Steve Alford is the better coach. If 90% or more don't answer that Archie is the better coach, dinner's on me - your choice of restaurant.

People who know the game know Archie's value. I have nothing personal against Steve Alford but when it comes to coaching, nobody's done less with more. We fired a guy in in 2017 for having essentially the same level of success as Steve Alford (except that the guy we fired had actually managed to make a final four).

Archie Miller inherited a roster at IU that shouldn't have won 3 games in the B1G last year. The chronic injury bug that has afflicted IU this year is like none I've ever seen any program have, certainly never at IU. It takes time to put your stamp on a program and build a team your way. Especially so when your coaching style is so dramatically different from your predecessor and you are mostly playing with his pieces.

The instant gratification mentality of much of the mob on this forum is laughable, as is the ignorance of the same group when it comes to understanding coaching.

 

[coachv jr]

One part of the genius of RMK was that he understood how you won was more important than winning in and of itself. Winning with local kids is much more enjoyable than playing with respondees from anywhere USA to a Help Wanted ad inVSports Illustrated.

you keep assuming we win if we hire alford. that's not necessarily true

 

[coachv jr]

I said it before I wanted Alford but ship has sailed if Archie doesn't turn us around next year we have to hire a big name Stevens, Few, Bennett, Pearl, Pitino, Beard..

few and bennett already turned down the job. and pitino? really? there is not enough black hair dye to wash out the dirt associated with him. no thanks

 

[CriticArisen]

of all the accolades you listed, none referred to his coaching career

Well geee I meant to lie...Your posts don't hold water either.

Alford is not a game changing coach. If he was he would have smoked at UCLA and made deep runs. They gave him EVERY resource possible. IU cannot match the resources he had while at UCLA (including the views of Westwood, so cal girls, and the area they are in). So his players carried him to a couple sweet 16's and when he got to that level where coaching matters he was slaughtered. He even had a stacked roster and was so out-coached in the tourney he looked silly.

How can anyone not recruit to UCLA thats like the Lamborghini of all coaching destinations.

I'll Pass on Alford...

Jeez since Wooden retired they have won exactly one championship. If you are recruiting players that will make their signing decision based on the views of Westwood and SoCal girls then you will not have good results. Maybe I can agree with Lamborghini-it looks good but will be beat in performance by far cheaper American cars that are more reliable (say an lightly upgraded Viper).

 

[coachv jr]

Everything I write here I believe strongly. Not trying to stir anyone up and I would like to see SA coach IU. I spent a large portion of my childhood through high school playing basketball and always watching basketball and I believe I am fairly representative of people in Indiana that did likewise. For those kind of people Hoosier basketball includes an almost mystical reverence for the heroes of basketball in the state and SA is one of those. I attended games when I was very young as I could and have seen a lot of Hoosier legends play going back to Trgovich, Bridgeman, Stoddard even as freshman in high school and McGinnis and Downing as seniors but SA holds a special place in my Pantheon of Hoosier legends because of what he accomplished with what he had. He was a cold hearted killer on the court and I really enjoyed watching him play.

while it's all good to revel in our basketball history, connection to it is not and should not be a criterion for hiring the head coach. if you had been a 65 year old fan longing for the days of mccracken, you would have been dead set against hiring an unproven coach from army.

 

[Indianaftw]

Jeez since Wooden retired they have won exactly one championship. If you are recruiting players that will make their signing decision based on the views of Westwood and SoCal girls then you will not have good results. Maybe I can agree with Lamborghini-it looks good but will be beat in performance by far cheaper American cars that are more reliable (say an lightly upgraded Viper).

You get my point...Out of all the destinations for someone to play b-ball and to be in the spotlight in LA (Not my cup a tea but for a starry eyed kid?)...cmon man does it get any better. I'm sure the alum at UCLA are no different than IU alum. Both are longing for the glory days again! Its been awhile for UCLA and IU. I'm sure Alford got Carte Blanche. They were trying to strike gold again with a guy from Indiana.

Bottom line both schools need a coach thats bigger than the programs at both schools.

 

[fpeaugh]

Well geee I meant to lie...Your posts don't hold water either.

Alford is not a game changing coach. If he was he would have smoked at UCLA and made deep runs. They gave him EVERY resource possible. IU cannot match the resources he had while at UCLA (including the views of Westwood, so cal girls, and the area they are in). So his players carried him to a couple sweet 16's and when he got to that level where coaching matters he was slaughtered. He even had a stacked roster and was so out-coached in the tourney he looked silly.

How can anyone not recruit to UCLA thats like the Lamborghini of all coaching destinations.

I'll Pass on Alford...

Every resource possible? UCLA might be the biggest group of cheapskates in the NCAA. Their basketball team travels coach with the public. Imagine you’re boarding a Southwest flight from LAX and UCLA’s basketball team is sitting on there. That’s the reality of their commitment to winning.

 

[coachv jr]

Jeez since Wooden retired they have won exactly one championship. If you are recruiting players that will make their signing decision based on the views of Westwood and SoCal girls then you will not have good results. Maybe I can agree with Lamborghini-it looks good but will be beat in performance by far cheaper American cars that are more reliable (say an lightly upgraded Viper).

which will both be beaten by japanese and german cars. man, you really are living in the past

 

[Indianaftw]

Every resource possible? UCLA might be the biggest group of cheapskates in the NCAA. Their basketball team travels coach with the public. Imagine you’re boarding a Southwest flight from LAX and UCLA’s basketball team is sitting on there. That’s the reality of their commitment to winning.

ohhh here we go...The infamous we share a football weight room is back, we don't spend money on coaches, SEE Ballou, Rhea, and DeBoer, and the new locker room facility will fall short. Gimmee a break... UCLA just opened the new Mo Ostin facility a couple years ago giving Alford even more of a pitch.

I've flown with IU's football team on a private. Did it feel like a private? NO. Who cares

 

[choptalk]

Sean miller has been farther in the ncaa tournament than Alford 4 times....and alford has been a d1 head coach for almost a decade longer. People butcher miller for not making a final four, yet hes made it a round farther than Alford ever has on 4 occasions. Hell, you could make the argument that miller did more at xavier alone than Alford has in his whole career. Stop posting.

It also sounds like Sean Miller is a cheater. I don't think Alford's name has been mentioned as one.

 

[victorbear]

Well geee I meant to lie...Your posts don't hold water either.

Alford is not a game changing coach. If he was he would have smoked at UCLA and made deep runs. They gave him EVERY resource possible. IU cannot match the resources he had while at UCLA (including the views of Westwood, so cal girls, and the area they are in). So his players carried him to a couple sweet 16's and when he got to that level where coaching matters he was slaughtered. He even had a stacked roster and was so out-coached in the tourney he looked silly.

How can anyone not recruit to UCLA thats like the Lamborghini of all coaching destinations.

I'll Pass on Alford...

every possible resource????? they flew commercial

 

[victorbear]

Alford had way more injuries than IU this year and they shit canned Alford, while IU fans say how great ARchie is..........

https://gojoebruin.com/2018/10/09/ucla-basketball-what-pg-tyger-campbells-acl-injury-means-for-ucla/

 

[turney333]

Take a survey of D-1 basketball coaches and ask whether Archie Miller or Steve Alford is the better coach. If 90% or more don't answer that Archie is the better coach, dinner's on me - your choice of restaurant.

People who know the game know Archie's value. I have nothing personal against Steve Alford but when it comes to coaching, nobody's done less with more. We fired a guy in in 2017 for having essentially the same level of success as Steve Alford (except that the guy we fired had actually managed to make a final four).

Archie Miller inherited a roster at IU that shouldn't have won 3 games in the B1G last year. The chronic injury bug that has afflicted IU this year is like none I've ever seen any program have, certainly never at IU. It takes time to put your stamp on a program and build a team your way. Especially so when your coaching style is so dramatically different from your predecessor and you are mostly playing with his pieces.

The instant gratification mentality of much of the mob on this forum is laughable, as is the ignorance of the same group when it comes to understanding coaching.

Also something to consider about instant gratification
Among coaches of the current top 10 schools, 8 missed the tournament their first season at that school, and 7 missed the tournament their first 2 years.

The coaches that made the tournament both of their first two years:
John Calipari: roster of his first season had 8 future NBA players, including 2 All-Stars
Roy Williams: roster of his first season had 4 future NBA players (strong though not near as strong as Calipari's roster, but Williams had already established himself as one of the best college coaches in the country having taken Kansas to 4 Final Four's)

 

[victorbear]

Think if Archie had lost Romeo, Phinessee and Hunter in October and Archie got fired for it!! This is what happened to Alford.

 

[Willray]

5 of the last six seasons Steve took his team to the tournament. Three of those to the Sweet Sixteen. We would love to say wewhad been to tournament with that frequency. Calculate in when he went to Iowa he had only coached Division 1 for 5 years. He was not ready. His time from New Mexico on has been very solid. UCLA hated him before he ever started......he did well there but they were never going to recognize that. Someone look up how many coaches have had their team in the tournament 5 out of the last 6 years. I bet you find it's not a huge long list.

Many people on this site hated Archie Miller before he ever started.

 

[VanPastorMan]

WAIT!

Did one of you guys fire Archie this morning? Is the IU Coaching position open?

You people are competing for the best used toilet paper each of you can produce. Its meaningless tripe.

The job isn't open and even if it was, no one here will have any input.

I was way inside on the Davis to Sampson changes and believe me, no one asked anyone here what they should do. I did get a chance to scream NO to even talking to Sampson while the committee was on the ground in Norman, Oklahoma interviewing him. I was right, IU was wrong and they know it now for sure, but you nor I nor anyone here is going to influence any choice they might make in future.

Or, put another way, we're just IU supporters (or critics) and they do not care what we think about basketball, football nor anything else that happens at IU.

A high school buddy of mine was an Air Force recruiter in Oklahoma and when Sampson's name came up for the IU job my friend warned me it would not be good."Van, he is shady" was his exact words.

 

[St_Henry_Buckeye]

If I were a PU fan I'd want Alford at IU too.

 

[victorbear]

Many people on this site hated Archie Miller before he ever started.

Nobody here hates ARchie Miller, me included, however there are LOTS OF PEOPLE here that do in fact hate Alford for no apparent reason and make conclusions that he is a terrible coach when in fact his coaching record is the same as ARchies and his recruiting record is very good.

 

[VanPastorMan]

Nobody here hates ARchie Miller, me included, however there are LOTS OF PEOPLE here that do in fact hate Alford for no apparent reason and make conclusions that he is a terrible coach when in fact his coaching record is the same as ARchies and his recruiting record is very good.

A lot of people characterize Steve as a rapist lover. It's like they think Steve was the head of some rape gang. From everything I have seen, Steve made the mistake of believing Pearce over the woman. He ended up being wrong in reading his player.

 

[Indianaftw]

Alford had way more injuries than IU this year and they shit canned Alford

Couldn't have said it better myself when you coach like sh!t you get sh!t canned!

 

[HoosiersChamps]

This is a lie because you have to remember what teams were in the Atlantic 10 when Archie was coaching!!!!!! Many teams left the Atlantic 10 such as Villanova, Temple, West Virginia. This is a total lie.

Villanova has been in the Big East since 1980. Not in the A10. You are a liar.
West Va was in the Big East from 1995-2012; now in the Big 12. Not in the A10. You are a liar.
Temple left the A10 in 2013, Archie started there in 2011 so he coached against them for 3 seasons. You are a dumba$$.

 

[minneman]

A lot of people characterize Steve as a rapist lover. It's like they think Steve was the head of some rape gang. From everything I have seen, Steve made the mistake of believing Pearce over the woman. He ended up being wrong in reading his player.

No, they don't. A lot of people say he's a rapist enabler. That's different than a "lover." He made more mistakes than just believing him. On top of that, he still shows no remorse.

I haven't seen a single post claiming that he's a "rapist lover." That's just ridiculous. Care to link one?

 

[SuperHoosierFan]

Villanova has been in the Big East since 1980. Not in the A10. You are a liar.
West Va was in the Big East from 1995-2012; now in the Big 12. Not in the A10. You are a liar.
Temple left the A10 in 2013, Archie started there in 2011 so he coached against them for 3 seasons. You are a dumba$$.

You and your facts. You’re really messing up his rant

 

[victorbear]

Villanova has been in the Big East since 1980. Not in the A10. You are a liar.
West Va was in the Big East from 1995-2012; now in the Big 12. Not in the A10. You are a liar.
Temple left the A10 in 2013, Archie started there in 2011 so he coached against them for 3 seasons. You are a dumba$$.

Why don't we just go back to 1950 for stats going back to 1980 was dumb, I presented a graph from 2000 go read it if in fact you know how to read.

 

[victorbear]

A lot of people characterize Steve as a rapist lover. It's like they think Steve was the head of some rape gang. From everything I have seen, Steve made the mistake of believing Pearce over the woman. He ended up being wrong in reading his player.

Everyone on this site has no idea how to coach D1 basketball including me, but somehow they all know that Alford wouldn't win at IU cause he only went to 3/5 sweet sixteens the past 5 years and this year had major injuries that caused him to get fired yet somehow what Archie did at Dayton was more impressive.

 

[victorbear]

2013–14 UCLA 28–9 12–6 2nd NCAA Division I Sweet 16
2014–15 UCLA 22–14 11–7 4th NCAA Division I Sweet 16
2015–16 UCLA 15–17 6–12 10th
2016–17 UCLA 31–5 15–3 3rd NCAA Division I Sweet 16
2017–18 UCLA 21–12 11–7 T-3rd NCAA Division I First Four
2018–19 UCLA 7–6[a] 0–0

IF ARchie had done this at IU the statue would already be built. A sweet sixteen in his first year and his second year then top 5 recruiting classes. Alford has a bad season then is hammered with injuries this year and he can't coach. I will bet anyone on this site that ARchies next 5 years will not be as good as Alfords five at UCLA, would anyone care to wager on that.