So Archie was supposed to close the borders but one big problem is that Purdue is inside the borders and taking many of the best players in the state. Losing Kaufman I believe is huge. He is exactly the type of scorer we need. Silver Creek pounded a good Bloomington North team the other night and he had 35 pts and 8 rebounds. To quote the Bloomington paper, "Kaufman scored from all over, baseline pullups, high post jumpers, 3s, stickbacks, to finish 14-of-21 overall, leaving his main defender Aaron Steinfeldt grasping for a way to slow him down. " Steinfeldt by the way is 6'5", a fantastic athlete and the top tight end prospect in the state who happens to be going to play football at IU next year.
The nail in the coffin.
- Thread starter jacksback
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Obviously, losing Kaufman hurt. Losing him to Purdue, even more.
That said, missing out on some high priority targets -- in-state, out-of-state, to Purdue, to anybody else -- really isn't the reason that Archie needs to be sent packing. After all, even the most successful coaches are going to lose some recruiting battles.
Of course, recruiting is the single biggest component of roster development. And roster development, in turn, is one of the biggest ingredients to success. I don't mean to discount it. I'm just saying that, at the end of the day, it's all about results. And, by "results", I mean wins, losses, conference placement, tournament performance (and appearance!), etc.
Archie needs to go because his 4 IU teams haven't achieved an acceptable level of results -- nor has there been a sufficient amount of improvement over that time period.
true, true, and true. I think one of the (if not THE) biggest losses was losing Garcia to Marquette. Big wing/outside-in player would have completely changed the look of our team. CAM has swung and missed at a couple highly ranked kids of similar molds. But strangest thing to me is the lack of pure guard development, when CAM was a PG himself. The program just feels totally out of sync at the moment and may take some divine intervention to avoid yet another coaching change. (has any other B1G program gone through as many coaching changes as IU, since c/y 2000?)
When I watched Kaufman play he reminded me so much of Jared Jeffries. Trey had alot of similarities to JJ but just not as athletic. This is a huge loss to iu on and off the floor.
Purdue doesn't have seniors....and they haven't had two top 50 caliber recruits since Hummel's class. What does this mean? It means losing 8 straight could become 12 pretty easily, and if Purdue ascends to a top 10 national, big ten contender and IU hasn't beaten them in years, it becomes an easy release lever for an AD to jettison a coach.
I am afraid the offensive system we play is going to prevent us from landing top level recruits. I mean, think of how hard it is for fans to watch. You think young kids who can go to any school they want would be excited about playing in it??
As far as I'm concerned, Dolson already has that lever. His decision shouldn't (and almost certainly won't) have anything to do with Purdue.
I'd guess that about the only thing that will keep Archie in his job from here on out will be his contract, the buyout, the athletic department's finances, etc.
Dolson, as the new AD at IU (with a departing President) doesn't have a the unilateral authority to move on Miller. I’m not sure any IU AD has ever had the leverage to singularly blow out the basketball or football coach, but I highly doubt Dolson has anything approaching that , especially if he wants to keep his job.
If IU keeps Miller beyond this season, then they better not bitch when Assembly Hall looks like a D-2 Atmosphere next season.
They can just keep the cardboard cutouts to try to make it seem less empty.
Wasn’t trying to quibble. That said, don’t believe anyone at the University has the stomach for it, either. At least not now.
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Exactly right. It is why IU Basketball is in the situation they are in... the problem goes beyond Miller, Crean, Dakich, Sampson, Davis... and really even the end run of CBK.
The BOTs do not have the stomach, or know-how to have an elite basketball team as part of the Athletic Department.
the BOT doesn't have the stomach to manage the elite talent required to run an elite basketball team
pretty disappointing that a university with such a renowned business school could suck so hard at managing talented employees
It begins at the top. They’ve hired poorly at the AD level, and the results confirm it. Buckner and a couple of Trustees stepped in to get Crean out, but that was crisis management. There’s been no real vision for decades. The BT money fools a lot of people, though.
I have no problem with firing Archie. I can’t speak for anyone else, but what is enough progress by year four? To me I expected more, maybe even much more.
It doesn't matter who he brings in. Somehow the High School Star who shoots 55% from the floor and 45% from 3 Point becomes a 40% /30% Shooter the moment they put on an IU Uniform. It's either something in the Water or the Coaching.
I would certainly hope that everybody -- including Fred Glass, Scott Dolson, McRobbie, and even Archie himself -- would have expected much more than what we've gotten.
You would hope. Still a couple of months left in the season, but I wonder if Miller will feel any obligation to take a bit deeper dive publicly and candidly discuss where the program is, at least in his view. Have to believe a lower half BT finish, if that’s where end up, is going to rev up the media’s ”hot seat” forecast, and it will be interesting to see if he chooses to address the state of the program or instead decides to just keep his head down and plow ahead.
At this point, I don't really care what he does. It's obviously not his style to be candid about where things stand. In some ways, I admire that. In other ways, it's frustrating to see things go so poorly for so long and hear nothing from the guy in charge to indicate that he understands the results are unsatisfactory and takes accountability (save for the one "mirror" comment at Huber's...which is about as close as he's ever come).
Oddly enough, he doesn't have a problem letting it all out there when Joe Lunardi writes something he doesn't like. Because, ya know, Joe was his best friend at Dayton.
TBH, I can barely stand to listen to him talk anymore.
He is starting to sound a bit programmed in his responses, but I’m not sure what else he can say at this point. I’ll always maintain that he had an opportunity early to set the tone and didn’t do it. A combination of retaining certain kids that didn’t buy in combined with poor recruiting was hard to overcome. He certainly doesn’t look like he’s enjoying himself.
I agree. How many times have we heard that we don’t have any shooters? I’m not convinced that it’s as simple as that. Players don’t exist in a vacuum. Put Rob on a different team and he may be a completely different player. Same thing with “shooters” from other teams. Who’s to say they don’t look a lot different in an IU uniform.
I don’t necessarily think it’s the stuff that we are running, but more the execution and what’s between the ears of our players. Call it what you want: Confidence, playing with a purpose, mental strength, etc.
Under Miller I expected a team that was greater than the sum of its parts, and a coach that did more with less. I haven’t seen that. This team needed a break, and got one. Let’s see what they can do now. Time is running out for Miller.
Do you have an empty business location in your town that has seen 4, 5, 6 or 10 different businesses in it...none of which could last and make a go of it? Now, there's that aura or impression that the location is jinxed? We have one..its had HVAC, auto mechanics, Frito Lay/vending storage, commercial welding and a few others over the past 20 years or so. Whats odd is...its not a huge town, and the new venders know the history and take a chance anyway. Well, its empty again. And its beginning to remind me of Assembly Hall.
In my life i have seen that there is a huge difference between teaching it and doing it.
Garcia and Kaufman were the only misses that were really disappointing to me. Both are what we need to go with the mix of players we have.
To me, progress is not looking as completely lost on the court in year 4 as you did in year 1. When you cannot recruit and develop at a school like IU, something is very wrong.
I have no idea if “time is running out” for Archie or not. Depends on what the people who make the decision think. As a fan,
I am very disappointed. But replacement is not easy.
Gamble you can find the next 35 year old Bob Knight?
What established guy would come?
Pick an ex IU player hoping for succes?
If it’s true that Thad Matta is wanting to get back into coaching, then he’d be my favorite candidate. I’d love to see what Pearl could do here....but it’s probably right that this is never going to happen.
Snow confirmed he is looking to get back into coaching. He doesn’t know if Matta’s personality would fit with the personality it takes to be a coach at a place like IU though. Didn’t say Matta would turn it down, just said he didn’t know if it’s a job Matta would want.
I'm curious about that turn of phrase. What kind of personality does he think it takes to be a coach at a place like IU?
I mean, Archie's personality is kind of hard to decipher. He usually seems kind of stone-faced and drab -- until a writer who used to kiss his butt had the audacity to suggest his team wasn't all that good. Then he quickly becomes juvenile and obnoxious.
Knight's personality was....well, no explanation necessary. Crean was a hyperkinetic, gum-chomping goofball who chases down other teams' assistants on camera after games and tells them off....and kisses his son on the mouth in public.
I could understand a coach not being enthused about taking the job at a program that used to be great, but hasn't been in a long time, where most everybody is expecting it to be made great once again. But because of personality?
As long as a coach comes here and wins, I don't think anybody would care what their personality is like.
Obviously you need to have a huge set of stones and an even bigger ego. The IU job clearly isn't what it used to be and hasn't been that way for some time. Really have to block out all the obnoxious noise and bullshit and simply win. What it really boils down too. I don't question Matta's ability to coach X's and O's, but does he still have the energy and passion to recruit and build at a school with little patience. You aren't winning by year 2 or 3, fan base will turn on you in a heartbeat.
His point was that a job like this one requires quite a bit more media attention than other jobs. He said for a coach to be successful in this type of environment they need to have a big personality and like being in the spotlight.
For example, he doesn’t think Archie fits that description.
Matta can make just as much money going to WSU to coach as can at IU. The WSU job comes with far less pressure and media exposure, but obviously doesn’t have the upside as far as success as the IU job does.
He thinks Matta would have the same hesitations at any big basketball school destinations like UK, Duke, or UNC.
We've made all of 7 tournament appearances since 2003-4. We endured 3 years of utter suckitude after having started with a roster consisting of two returning walk-ons...and came out as enthusiastic as ever on the other end. I'd say we have plenty of patience.
Frankly, Archie would be fine right now if his teams were tangibly improving, acknowledging and addressing their shortcomings, eliminating mistakes. I don't think anybody was expecting a Top 5 caliber program by now. But, obviously, repeated finishes in the bottom half of the B10 with little evidence of movement in the right direction isn't going to cut it.
If a coaching candidate insists on being able to put out those kind results without consequence, then I don't want him. I'd just as soon we take a flier with one of the great HS coaches we have in the state.
It takes, and we need, a guy with a big ego. If any coach has any doubts, any qualms, any questions about his ability to get the job done we don't need him anywhere near Assembly Hall.
Who are your big ego guys, and more importantly who are the big ego guys available that are going to come and immediately right thr ship: identify that variable and we can talk.
Agreed. To sum it up, things are currently not good, and unfortunately the future is even more bleak.
Well, there's the rub. The big ego guys I'd want (or, maybe better, consider) would include, in no particular order of preference, Stevens, Beard, Self, Few, Pitino and Pearl. Situations and dollars obviously would knock out several, even with the Brinks truck backed up to their mansion; ethical questions make several doubtful.
Thus, the dilemma becomes winning bigly at the craps table.
None of this bodes well for the future of Indiana basketball returning to blue blood status.
Those were big misses, but he had no back/up plan! We also need, in the words of Don Fisher “an Alpha Dog” - someone who refuses to lose.
Our roster is poor - no real leadership, no depth, no shooters, no size.
Yes, at this point I'd be willing for IU to draw names out of a hat for a new coach, whomever got picked it can't be much worse than it is. 5 straight losses to PU on your home court, how much worse could any other coach be?
