The longer this takes, the more I think it's Heard-Hart as Co-OCs

[IUCX9]

There a lot of great speculation on here, but few coaches, if any, have connections to CTA or Indiana. Except of course Canada who allegedly turned us down already.

Most assistant coaching hires are done through connections - guys working on the same staffs previously, worked for the same HC but at different times, etc - but it seems almost all remaining candidates don't, at least on the surface, have those connections with our staff. I could be wrong, they could have connections I just don't know.

I have this gut feeling (I did just have lunch) that the inordinate amount of big time programs looking for OC's is really affecting our buying power right now. It's a seller's market out there right now and candidates are looking at better jobs and more money than IU. I don't think any one foresaw the amount of OC turnover and movement across the county. Probably not CTA and Debord when the decision to retire was made.

Anyway, I think Allen might play it safe and promote from within this year and go with Heard/Hart to keep building what we have going so far. I don't know if CTA will roll the dice and take a risk on an unknown - someone he has never worked with - if he is going to be handing over the entire Offensive side of the ball to that individual.

Everything I've seen from CTA the last two years tells me that he will most likely play it safe, stay conservative, and play not to lose. Maybe hell get lucky and his safe play turns out to be the big thing that breaks the program through.

Thoughts?

Disclaimer : this is speculation so don't get all bent out of shape.

 

[76-1]

There a lot of great speculation on here, but few coaches, if any, have connections to CTA or Indiana. Except of course Canada who allegedly turned us down already.

Most assistant coaching hires are done through connections - guys working on the same staffs previously, worked for the same HC but at different times, etc - but it seems almost all remaining candidates don't, at least on the surface, have those connections with our staff. I could be wrong, they could have connections I just don't know.

I have this gut feeling (I did just have lunch) that the inordinate amount of big time programs looking for OC's is really affecting our buying power right now. It's a seller's market out there right now and candidates are looking at better jobs and more money than IU. I don't think any one foresaw the amount of OC turnover and movement across the county. Probably not CTA and Debord when the decision to retire was made.

Anyway, I think Allen might play it safe and promote from within this year and go with Heard/Hart to keep building what we have going so far. I don't know if CTA will roll the dice and take a risk on an unknown - someone he has never worked with - if he is going to be handing over the entire Offensive side of the ball to that individual.

Everything I've seen from CTA the last two years tells me that he will most likely play it safe, stay conservative, and play not to lose. Maybe hell get lucky and his safe play turns out to be the big thing that breaks the program through.

Thoughts?

Disclaimer : this is speculation so don't get all bent out of shape.

Could happen. It does appear we're being frozen out of the market a bit...

I'm not sure either one is ready for that slot. Heard has more background than Hart.

Hart gets a lot of love because he's a great guy and a fine recruiter, but personally, I think his coaching needs to evolve at the position he's coaching now before I'm completely sold to on him moving up to OC...

I thought our backs often went down far too easily after contact, fumbled too much and were often mediocre blockers in the passing game...

When I start seeing our RBs getting better at all of the above (consistently) then I'll be impressed by Hart.

Heard has been around the block and has coached at a high level in the SEC, I'd be more comfortable with him then Hart...

 

[Sope Creek]

There a lot of great speculation on here, but few coaches, if any, have connections to CTA or Indiana. Except of course Canada who allegedly turned us down already.

Most assistant coaching hires are done through connections - guys working on the same staffs previously, worked for the same HC but at different times, etc - but it seems almost all remaining candidates don't, at least on the surface, have those connections with our staff. I could be wrong, they could have connections I just don't know.

I have this gut feeling (I did just have lunch) that the inordinate amount of big time programs looking for OC's is really affecting our buying power right now. It's a seller's market out there right now and candidates are looking at better jobs and more money than IU. I don't think any one foresaw the amount of OC turnover and movement across the county. Probably not CTA and Debord when the decision to retire was made.

Anyway, I think Allen might play it safe and promote from within this year and go with Heard/Hart to keep building what we have going so far. I don't know if CTA will roll the dice and take a risk on an unknown - someone he has never worked with - if he is going to be handing over the entire Offensive side of the ball to that individual.

Everything I've seen from CTA the last two years tells me that he will most likely play it safe, stay conservative, and play not to lose. Maybe hell get lucky and his safe play turns out to be the big thing that breaks the program through.

Thoughts?

Disclaimer : this is speculation so don't get all bent out of shape.

Good post.

I don't know that this search is affecting our buying power as much as it might be revealing it.

 

[ORG]

There a lot of great speculation on here, but few coaches, if any, have connections to CTA or Indiana. Except of course Canada who allegedly turned us down already.

Most assistant coaching hires are done through connections - guys working on the same staffs previously, worked for the same HC but at different times, etc - but it seems almost all remaining candidates don't, at least on the surface, have those connections with our staff. I could be wrong, they could have connections I just don't know.

I have this gut feeling (I did just have lunch) that the inordinate amount of big time programs looking for OC's is really affecting our buying power right now. It's a seller's market out there right now and candidates are looking at better jobs and more money than IU. I don't think any one foresaw the amount of OC turnover and movement across the county. Probably not CTA and Debord when the decision to retire was made.

Anyway, I think Allen might play it safe and promote from within this year and go with Heard/Hart to keep building what we have going so far. I don't know if CTA will roll the dice and take a risk on an unknown - someone he has never worked with - if he is going to be handing over the entire Offensive side of the ball to that individual.

Everything I've seen from CTA the last two years tells me that he will most likely play it safe, stay conservative, and play not to lose. Maybe hell get lucky and his safe play turns out to be the big thing that breaks the program through.

Thoughts?

Disclaimer : this is speculation so don't get all bent out of shape.

I hope IU does not go with "co" anything. Sharing one job never seems to work out.

 

[welshman#]

There a lot of great speculation on here, but few coaches, if any, have connections to CTA or Indiana. Except of course Canada who allegedly turned us down already.

Most assistant coaching hires are done through connections - guys working on the same staffs previously, worked for the same HC but at different times, etc - but it seems almost all remaining candidates don't, at least on the surface, have those connections with our staff. I could be wrong, they could have connections I just don't know.

I have this gut feeling (I did just have lunch) that the inordinate amount of big time programs looking for OC's is really affecting our buying power right now. It's a seller's market out there right now and candidates are looking at better jobs and more money than IU. I don't think any one foresaw the amount of OC turnover and movement across the county. Probably not CTA and Debord when the decision to retire was made.

Anyway, I think Allen might play it safe and promote from within this year and go with Heard/Hart to keep building what we have going so far. I don't know if CTA will roll the dice and take a risk on an unknown - someone he has never worked with - if he is going to be handing over the entire Offensive side of the ball to that individual.

Everything I've seen from CTA the last two years tells me that he will most likely play it safe, stay conservative, and play not to lose. Maybe hell get lucky and his safe play turns out to be the big thing that breaks the program through.

Thoughts?

Disclaimer : this is speculation so don't get all bent out of shape.

Allen could've made that move the day DeBord's retirement was announced. The fact that he didn't, and that he's publicly stated he wants someone with prior FBS-level playcalling experience, tells me that making the move now wouldn't be "playing it safe" as much as admitting he struck out in his search.

 

[Big Red Crimson Buffalo]

There a lot of great speculation on here, but few coaches, if any, have connections to CTA or Indiana. Except of course Canada who allegedly turned us down already.

Most assistant coaching hires are done through connections - guys working on the same staffs previously, worked for the same HC but at different times, etc - but it seems almost all remaining candidates don't, at least on the surface, have those connections with our staff. I could be wrong, they could have connections I just don't know.

I have this gut feeling (I did just have lunch) that the inordinate amount of big time programs looking for OC's is really affecting our buying power right now. It's a seller's market out there right now and candidates are looking at better jobs and more money than IU. I don't think any one foresaw the amount of OC turnover and movement across the county. Probably not CTA and Debord when the decision to retire was made.

Anyway, I think Allen might play it safe and promote from within this year and go with Heard/Hart to keep building what we have going so far. I don't know if CTA will roll the dice and take a risk on an unknown - someone he has never worked with - if he is going to be handing over the entire Offensive side of the ball to that individual.

Everything I've seen from CTA the last two years tells me that he will most likely play it safe, stay conservative, and play not to lose. Maybe hell get lucky and his safe play turns out to be the big thing that breaks the program through.

Thoughts?

Disclaimer : this is speculation so don't get all bent out of shape.

It will not be an internal guy.

Just because Canada turned down the job does not mean there aren’t another 100 guys out there who are as good or better than that guy.

Canada would have been decent but he couldn’t even beat IU this year. His offense was predictable and one dimensional.

 

[fpeaugh]

There’s not an inordinate number of teams looking for OCs. It’s like this every single year.

 

[Tegray1]

I think folks need to be patient. I think Alabama's offensive staff left. At least 3 or 4 of them. Hopefully by this time next week we will know. I think this does mean that OC'S at non-Power 5 schools may not be first choices. There are a lot of folks out there moving around. I would like a veteran coach like Ron Turner to be considered. He was always a better OC than HC.

There a lot of great speculation on here, but few coaches, if any, have connections to CTA or Indiana. Except of course Canada who allegedly turned us down already.

Most assistant coaching hires are done through connections - guys working on the same staffs previously, worked for the same HC but at different times, etc - but it seems almost all remaining candidates don't, at least on the surface, have those connections with our staff. I could be wrong, they could have connections I just don't know.

I have this gut feeling (I did just have lunch) that the inordinate amount of big time programs looking for OC's is really affecting our buying power right now. It's a seller's market out there right now and candidates are looking at better jobs and more money than IU. I don't think any one foresaw the amount of OC turnover and movement across the county. Probably not CTA and Debord when the decision to retire was made.

Anyway, I think Allen might play it safe and promote from within this year and go with Heard/Hart to keep building what we have going so far. I don't know if CTA will roll the dice and take a risk on an unknown - someone he has never worked with - if he is going to be handing over the entire Offensive side of the ball to that individual.

Everything I've seen from CTA the last two years tells me that he will most likely play it safe, stay conservative, and play not to lose. Maybe hell get lucky and his safe play turns out to be the big thing that breaks the program through.

Thoughts?

Disclaimer : this is speculation so don't get all bent out of shape.

 

[76-1]

I think folks need to be patient. I think Alabama's offensive staff left. At least 3 or 4 of them. Hopefully by this time next week we will know. I think this does mean that OC'S at non-Power 5 schools may not be first choices. There are a lot of folks out there moving around. I would like a veteran coach like Ron Turner to be considered. He was always a better OC than HC.

A big "no thanks" to Ron Turner...

 

[Tegray1]

I don't think we are getting someone off Clemson's staff. Trying to be realistic. Really don't think anyone on our staff is a candidate. The OC from Fresno State made sense but that would have been done by now.

A big "no thanks" to Ron Turner...

 

[76-1]

I don't think we are getting someone off Clemson's staff. Trying to be realistic. Really don't think anyone on our staff is a candidate. The OC from Fresno State made sense but that would have been done by now.

If you double (or more) what they are making and give them both 3 year contracts anything is possible...

Here's a quote Fred can relate to: "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take."

 

[welshman#]

It will not be an internal guy.

Just because Canada turned down the job does not mean there aren’t another 100 guys out there who are as good or better than that guy.

Canada would have been decent but he couldn’t even beat IU this year. His offense was predictable and one dimensional.

IMO people may be over-thinking the Canada episode a bit. To me it would've been entirely plausible that Matt and CTA had a discussion and once it became clear what kind of offense Allen wants going forward, Matt said "I'm probably not your guy" with or without a detailed discussion about assistants, etc.

 

[IUCX9]

There’s not an inordinate number of teams looking for OCs. It’s like this every single year.

It is if you add the NFL coaching carousel to the mix because they seem to be dipping down into the cfb coaching ranks for their new guard. Arizona just hired USC's brand new OC as their HEAD COACH, who was sub -.500 during his own HC tenure and was fired for it.

 

[coachv jr]

I think folks need to be patient. I think Alabama's offensive staff left. At least 3 or 4 of them. Hopefully by this time next week we will know. I think this does mean that OC'S at non-Power 5 schools may not be first choices. There are a lot of folks out there moving around. I would like a veteran coach like Ron Turner to be considered. He was always a better OC than HC.

you keep talking about ron turner. where is he working now? isn't he like 70?

 

[Bowlmania]

you keep talking about ron turner. where is he working now? isn't he like 70?

He's 65. Bruce Arians just got a HC gig at 66. As an alum and a fan, though, I'd prefer someone other than Turner, assuming he even had any interest.

 

[td75]

Does anyone know what the OC position will pay? Is this a money issue? I've read a ton of articles where Fred comes off as pro-football, hopefully he's sticking to his word salary wise....I'm assuming he is.

What did Debord make last year?

 

[JohnsyRick]

Does anyone know what the OC position will pay? Is this a money issue? I've read a ton of articles where Fred comes off as pro-football, hopefully he's sticking to his word salary wise....I'm assuming he is.

What did Debord make last year?

$502,500, with max bonus of $110,000.

 

[Tegray1]

I said someone like a Ron Turner with a lot of experience. He was on the Arizona Cardinals staff when they were fired. Yep 65 years old.

you keep talking about ron turner. where is he working now? isn't he like 70?

 

[76-1]

Bill Lazor got cut loose by the Bengals.

He was an OC in college at Virginia and is thought of highly as a developer of QB's in the NFL...

I'd imagine he'll end up on another NFL staff shortly but he's currently unemployed...

// I don't follow the Bengals (or Lazor) so I don't know if he's good, bad, or average. I just recently read his name on Footballscoop and thought I'd throw it out there for your consideration... //

https://www.bengals.com/team/coaches-roster/bill-lazor

 

[Chriselli]

It will not be an internal guy.

Just because Canada turned down the job does not mean there aren’t another 100 guys out there who are as good or better than that guy.

Canada would have been decent but he couldn’t even beat IU this year. His offense was predictable and one dimensional.

Canada dropped half a hundred on Ohio State and beat Texas...without a quarterback. I think he did alright.

 

[fkfootball]

Their are OCs out there making 200,000 a year. We pay more than that. We will get someone. It may not be a marquee name, but he will find someone with a track record.

 

[Al Bino]

Their are OCs out there making 200,000 a year. We pay more than that. We will get someone. It may not be a marquee name, but he will find someone with a track record.

Come on man, IU HAS to pay 2-3 times that amount to let people know that they are serious about football. Just ask fp and grman.

 

[Palmbeachhoosier]

Could happen. It does appear we're being frozen out of the market a bit...

I'm not sure either one is ready for that slot. Heard has more background than Hart.

Hart gets a lot of love because he's a great guy and a fine recruiter, but personally, I think his coaching needs to evolve at the position he's coaching now before I'm completely sold to on him moving up to OC...

I thought our backs often went down far too easily after contact, fumbled too much and were often mediocre blockers in the passing game...

When I start seeing our RBs getting better at all of the above (consistently) then I'll be impressed by Hart.

Heard has been around the block and has coached at a high level in the SEC, I'd be more comfortable with him then Hart...

To me it is tough to blame a coach for going down too easy... especially since he is a true freshman. Also under Wilson if a guy fumbled he had to sit the remainder of the half... I remember Wilson taking heat for leaving Coleman on the bench for a couple of series after he had fumbled. Finally blocking is something they have to learn because they were the one carrying the ball im high school. If you have a BIG caliber you are going to feed him the ball as a high school coach.
It is tough to blame a coach of freshman in his first year if the problem does not get fixed then maybe. I know that there have been times that we have run a play and have big gain run it again against same look and they block it wrong it is inexplicable to me how that can happen but it does. Point is if skid runs it and then runs it wrong he obviously knew how to run the play.

 

[crossfire74]

There a lot of great speculation on here, but few coaches, if any, have connections to CTA or Indiana. Except of course Canada who allegedly turned us down already.

Most assistant coaching hires are done through connections - guys working on the same staffs previously, worked for the same HC but at different times, etc - but it seems almost all remaining candidates don't, at least on the surface, have those connections with our staff. I could be wrong, they could have connections I just don't know.

I have this gut feeling (I did just have lunch) that the inordinate amount of big time programs looking for OC's is really affecting our buying power right now. It's a seller's market out there right now and candidates are looking at better jobs and more money than IU. I don't think any one foresaw the amount of OC turnover and movement across the county. Probably not CTA and Debord when the decision to retire was made.

Anyway, I think Allen might play it safe and promote from within this year and go with Heard/Hart to keep building what we have going so far. I don't know if CTA will roll the dice and take a risk on an unknown - someone he has never worked with - if he is going to be handing over the entire Offensive side of the ball to that individual.

Everything I've seen from CTA the last two years tells me that he will most likely play it safe, stay conservative, and play not to lose. Maybe hell get lucky and his safe play turns out to be the big thing that breaks the program through.

Thoughts?

Disclaimer : this is speculation so don't get all bent out of shape.

Allen said this would be an outside hire. So your gut feeling is simply indigestion.

 

[Hoosier_Hack]

Well if it becomes someone on staff I personally think that would be a disaster. It says “we didn’t want you in the begging but we can’t find anyone better so here is a promotion”.... I bet they are still talking to people.

 

[IUFan_FWA]

Canada dropped half a hundred on Ohio State and beat Texas...without a quarterback. I think he did alright.

I am kind of disappointed that we didn't get Canada because he is a guy that I thought would be a good fit and that was also someone IU could get. IU is mostly done recruiting for this year's class but since the contact period just re-opened I think it would be good to fill this position soon so that we can leverage the new OC to help us fill out the last few spots in this class.

 

[IndyIUFan66]

As long and frustrating (for mainly fan selfish reasons) that there is no OC news yet so we can all start projecting our fantasies of what if...) I'm still going to trust that they have a plan, they are talking to people that we don't know/aren't privy to, and there will be a very respectable hire still to come. Patience is hard though!

 

[JohnsyRick]

As long and frustrating (for mainly fan selfish reasons) that there is no OC news yet so we can all start projecting our fantasies of what if...) I'm still going to trust that they have a plan, they are talking to people that we don't know/aren't privy to, and there will be a very respectable hire still to come. Patience is hard though!

Well, it appears that Hart is a candidate for the ND running back coach job that just opened, and Canada is not the choice for Pitt. It also appears NIU is doing a national search and there are guys they seem to prefer over Canada, so, who knows where he lands.

 

[turney333]

Well, it appears that Hart is a candidate for the ND running back coach job that just opened, and Canada is not the choice for Pitt. It also appears NIU is doing a national search and there are guys they seem to prefer over Canada, so, who knows where he lands.

As far as I’m aware, Hart is just on an ND writers wish list, which doesn’t mean he’s an actual candidate.

 

[JohnsyRick]

As far as I’m aware, Hart is just on an ND writers wish list, which doesn’t mean he’s an actual candidate.

True, but most of those guys are pretty plugged in, and when they put out a list of 4 guys, they often have some knowledge that is legit.

 

[Grateful Redbeard]

Kelly may want Hart at ND, but that doesn't mean Hart is looking to leave. He's got quite the stable of young RB's to coach right now. It would be pretty tough to walk away from Samson James before you ever even get to coach him. Hart was a big part of why he flipped to IU.

Also, hard pass on Canada. CTA can do so much better.

 

[turney333]

Kelly may want Hart at ND, but that doesn't mean Hart is looking to leave. He's got quite the stable of young RB's to coach right now. It would be pretty tough to walk away from Samson James before you ever even get to coach him. Hart was a big part of why he flipped to IU.

Also, hard pass on Canada. CTA can do so much better.

Also, Kelly's typical M.O. when hiring is non-P5 assistants or P5 assistants that were let go after a HC change. He rarely picks up employed P5 coaches. This probably stems from his entire 25+ year pre-ND career being at non-P5 schools, most of which was also at the DII level, where luring coaches away with money and prestige was not an option. Kelly has also publicly criticized high assistant coach salaries.

 

[JohnsyRick]

As far as I’m aware, Hart is just on an ND writers wish list, which doesn’t mean he’s an actual candidate.

Well, apparently he is interviewing at ND today, so he must be a candidate. If he does leave, I would love to get Grubb from Fresno St , but I think there is a good chance Fresno offers him the OC job.