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The liberal media

Rockfish1

Hall of Famer
Sep 2, 2001
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Republicans are convinced that every media outlet but Fox is stacked against them. I think this is mostly wrong, but I mostly think it misses the real point. Leaving aside basic incompetence, the biggest problem with the establishment press is the set of individual and corporate incentives that cause them to behave in ways that serve their interests, but not ours. Let me illustrate that with this piece from Politico:

U.N. report: Assad again used chemical weapons, defying Obama

Even after he supposedly turned over his entire stockpile of chemical weapons three years ago, Bashar Assad is still crossing Barack Obama's "red line," a U.N. investigation has found.

U.S. officials confirmed Wednesday that the probe had determined that the Syrian president and his regime were responsible for at least two cases of the deadly use of chlorine in the Arab country's civil war since 2013.
I've not read the UN report, but I bet its central theme isn't, "Bashar Assad is dicking with Obama." That's Politico's takeaway, though. A corrupt dictator in a failed state is clinging to power by gassing innocent civilians, but here, Politico reports this as a tit-for-tat in domestic US politics. That's already stupid, but then there's this tucked away toward the end, after most have stopped reading:

Chlorine was not included as part of the agreement with Assad because the product has many legal uses.
Really? You mean chlorine can be purchased in bleach at WalMart? So it wasn't banned because it's freely available to everyone?

When I was a kid, a buddy and I accidentally made chlorine gas in his basement. (We had to run away. Seriously, kids and chemistry sets were a lot more dangerous than parents appreciated.) Having personally made chlorine gas in a basement when I was ten years old, I'm not quite so stunned as Politico that Obama hasn't somehow been able to prevent Assad from doing something similar (and on purpose) in Syria.

The establishment press is a for-profit business. Yes, to one extent or another, media organizations all have their own cultures, and a commitment to objective fact is at least somewhat important in all of them (except Fox). But ultimately they're selling something, whether it's subscriptions, or downloads, or page-views, or audience share.

Nothing sells in politics like controversy and scandal, and that sort of thing is easy to find (or in this case manufacture). But when you pick up what a for-profit business is selling you -- whether that's a TV or a toothbrush or a pair of socks or the news -- you ought to ask yourself what you're buying and whether the particular item you have in your hand (or on your computer screen) is really what you want. But even the tiny bit of skepticism that someone at lunch has for a restaurant's menu falls away when a news business offers to sell them something they want to believe is true.

[Edited: Typos.]
 
Republicans are convinced that every media outlet but Fox is stacked against them. I think this is mostly wrong, but I mostly think it misses the real point. Leaving aside basic incompetence, the biggest problem with the establishment press is the set of individual and corporate incentives that cause them to behave in ways that serve their interests, but not ours. Let me illustrate that with this piece from Politico:

U.N. report: Assad again used chemical weapons, defying Obama

Even after he supposedly turned over his entire stockpile of chemical weapons three years ago, Bashar Assad is still crossing Barack Obama's "red line," a U.N. investigation has found.

U.S. officials confirmed Wednesday that the probe had determined that the Syrian president and his regime were responsible for at least two cases of the deadly use of chlorine in the Arab country's civil war since 2013.
I've not read the UN report, but I bet its central theme isn't, "Bashar Assad is dicking with Obama." That's Politico's takeaway, though. A corrupt dictator in a failed state is clinging to power by gassing innocent civilians, but here, Politico reports this as a tit-for-tat in domestic US politics. That's already stupid, but then there's this tucked away toward the end, after most have stopped reading:

Chlorine was not included as part of the agreement with Assad because the product has many legal uses.
Really? You mean chlorine can be purchased in bleach at WalMart? So it wasn't banned because it's freely available to everyone?

When I was a kid, a buddy and I accidentally made chlorine gas in his basement. (We had to run away. Seriously, kids and chemistry sets were a lot more dangerous than parents appreciated.) Having personally made chlorine gas in a basement when I was ten years old, I'm not quite so stunned as Politico that Obama hasn't somehow been able to prevent Assad from doing something similar (and on purpose) in Syria.

The establishment press is a for-profit business. Yes, to one extent or another, media organizations all have their own cultures, and a commitment to objective fact is at least somewhat important in all of them (except Fox). But ultimately they're selling something, whether it's subscriptions, or downloads, or page-views, or audience share.

Nothing sells in politics like controversy and scandal, and that sort of thing is easy to find (or in this case manufacture). But when you pick up what a for-profit business is selling you -- whether that's a TV or a toothbrush or a pair of socks or the news -- you ought to ask yourself what you're buying and whether the particular item you have in your hand ( or on your computer screen) is really what you want. But even the tiny bit of skepticism that someone at lunch has for a restaurant's menu falls away when a news business offers to sell them something they want to believe is true.
Good post. Barely tangentially related, you might find this essay about what the hell went wrong with IFLS both interesting and related to the problem you describe.

I'll try to come up with a more substantive response directly to your points, but I just thought that link was fitting for this issue.
 
Republicans are convinced that every media outlet but Fox is stacked against them. I think this is mostly wrong, but I mostly think it misses the real point. Leaving aside basic incompetence, the biggest problem with the establishment press is the set of individual and corporate incentives that cause them to behave in ways that serve their interests, but not ours. Let me illustrate that with this piece from Politico:

U.N. report: Assad again used chemical weapons, defying Obama

Even after he supposedly turned over his entire stockpile of chemical weapons three years ago, Bashar Assad is still crossing Barack Obama's "red line," a U.N. investigation has found.

U.S. officials confirmed Wednesday that the probe had determined that the Syrian president and his regime were responsible for at least two cases of the deadly use of chlorine in the Arab country's civil war since 2013.
I've not read the UN report, but I bet its central theme isn't, "Bashar Assad is dicking with Obama." That's Politico's takeaway, though. A corrupt dictator in a failed state is clinging to power by gassing innocent civilians, but here, Politico reports this as a tit-for-tat in domestic US politics. That's already stupid, but then there's this tucked away toward the end, after most have stopped reading:

Chlorine was not included as part of the agreement with Assad because the product has many legal uses.
Really? You mean chlorine can be purchased in bleach at WalMart? So it wasn't banned because it's freely available to everyone?

When I was a kid, a buddy and I accidentally made chlorine gas in his basement. (We had to run away. Seriously, kids and chemistry sets were a lot more dangerous than parents appreciated.) Having personally made chlorine gas in a basement when I was ten years old, I'm not quite so stunned as Politico that Obama hasn't somehow been able to prevent Assad from doing something similar (and on purpose) in Syria.

The establishment press is a for-profit business. Yes, to one extent or another, media organizations all have their own cultures, and a commitment to objective fact is at least somewhat important in all of them (except Fox). But ultimately they're selling something, whether it's subscriptions, or downloads, or page-views, or audience share.

Nothing sells in politics like controversy and scandal, and that sort of thing is easy to find (or in this case manufacture). But when you pick up what a for-profit business is selling you -- whether that's a TV or a toothbrush or a pair of socks or the news -- you ought to ask yourself what you're buying and whether the particular item you have in your hand (or on your computer screen) is really what you want. But even the tiny bit of skepticism that someone at lunch has for a restaurant's menu falls away when a news business offers to sell them something they want to believe is true.

[Edited: Typos.]

I'm looking forward to what happens with the "new" MSNBC and Fox post Roger Ailes. MSNBC has had more opposing viewpoints on their programming lately. For example, Glen Beck was on Lawrence O'Donnell tonight, and Trump's new campaign manager was on Maddow's show tonight. And Hugh Hewitt has been on their programming regularly.

And Fox is in a tough spot. Without Ailes squeezing everyone (literally and figuratively it seems), it'll be interesting to see the "spin" they put on things from now on.

Interesting times. Whenever I really want to know what's really happening in this country, I check out foreign media outlets. Like the BBC, for example. They tend to give us the black and white view, while our own outlets tend to keep us in our own "news bubbles". A move towards real reporting and real fact checking, pinning folks down on what they are saying and leaving out "spin" would go a long way towards making folks behave civilly towards each other again. 24 hour news cable outlets had the ability to give us better coverage, but it has had the effect of dividing us as a citizenry.
 
I'm looking forward to what happens with the "new" MSNBC and Fox post Roger Ailes. MSNBC has had more opposing viewpoints on their programming lately. For example, Glen Beck was on Lawrence O'Donnell tonight, and Trump's new campaign manager was on Maddow's show tonight. And Hugh Hewitt has been on their programming regularly.

And Fox is in a tough spot. Without Ailes squeezing everyone (literally and figuratively it seems), it'll be interesting to see the "spin" they put on things from now on.

Interesting times. Whenever I really want to know what's really happening in this country, I check out foreign media outlets. Like the BBC, for example. They tend to give us the black and white view, while our own outlets tend to keep us in our own "news bubbles". A move towards real reporting and real fact checking, pinning folks down on what they are saying and leaving out "spin" would go a long way towards making folks behave civilly towards each other again. 24 hour news cable outlets had the ability to give us better coverage, but it has had the effect of dividing us as a citizenry.
For what it's worth, to me MSNBC is absurd because, in their view, bringing on Beck or HH or Trump's campaign guy adds diversity or something. Instead, to me, it just further de-legitimises them. They're by and large too incompetent and too profit-driven to do actual reporting, but if they're going to do the opinion thing I wish they'd rely more on some thoughtful people not on the fringe or most interested in pure ideological stridency (or, in Beck's case, insanity). Most news sources have a real credibility problem and if what you describe is true, MSNBC is still digging that hole.
 
For what it's worth, to me MSNBC is absurd because, in their view, bringing on Beck or HH or Trump's campaign guy adds diversity or something. Instead, to me, it just further de-legitimises them. They're by and large too incompetent and too profit-driven to do actual reporting, but if they're going to do the opinion thing I wish they'd rely more on some thoughtful people not on the fringe or most interested in pure ideological stridency (or, in Beck's case, insanity). Most news sources have a real credibility problem and if what you describe is true, MSNBC is still digging that hole.
I do like Maddow, but seldom watch her because I don't like opinion driven programming. I miss having news. I miss having a newsreader read news. One has to venture off to the BBC for that. So even though I like Maddow, out of principle I very seldom watch.

About the only opinion driven show I watch is Oliver's and that is explained by the fact I find him hilarious.
 
For what it's worth, to me MSNBC is absurd because, in their view, bringing on Beck or HH or Trump's campaign guy adds diversity or something. Instead, to me, it just further de-legitimises them. They're by and large too incompetent and too profit-driven to do actual reporting, but if they're going to do the opinion thing I wish they'd rely more on some thoughtful people not on the fringe or most interested in pure ideological stridency (or, in Beck's case, insanity). Most news sources have a real credibility problem and if what you describe is true, MSNBC is still digging that hole.
All good points. If there were a TV news network that offered quality news and comment, I'd start watching TV news. Now that Jon Stewart is gone, I don't even see Fox and Friends any more. : )
 
For what it's worth, to me MSNBC is absurd because, in their view, bringing on Beck or HH or Trump's campaign guy adds diversity or something. Instead, to me, it just further de-legitimises them. They're by and large too incompetent and too profit-driven to do actual reporting, but if they're going to do the opinion thing I wish they'd rely more on some thoughtful people not on the fringe or most interested in pure ideological stridency (or, in Beck's case, insanity). Most news sources have a real credibility problem and if what you describe is true, MSNBC is still digging that hole.

It's a start. They're obviously not there. But the idea is that folks like the folks mentioned earlier will be on their programming more and more often.

We shall see.
 
All good points. If there were a TV news network that offered quality news and comment, I'd start watching TV news. Now that Jon Stewart is gone, I don't even see Fox and Friends any more. : )

Special report with Bret Baier is actually one of the better hard news shows on any channel....IMO. It's basically the only thing I watch on Fox, and about the only tv news I watch at all, though I'll sometimes watch News Hour on PBS.
 
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